I have just implemented Plan B. My story is thus. H found a new job, and OW. We had been married 9 years, together 12. We have 2 girls, 4 and 18 mths. I stayed with him in the beginning and we tried counselling - he wouldn't even commit to that. We were living in Melbourne Australia at the time. (he still is) H was going to move out (don't know to where) but I decided I couldn't take the to-ing and fro-ing and moved to Brisbane (1000 kms away) to be near my family. He is sending mixed signals, nice flirty emails, 2 bouquest of roses, small gifts when he visited, twice to date . He tells me that things are not going great with OW, the feelings are dying, there is not the longing there that there should be, he has nothing to give ANYONE, he can't believe how badly he has F.....d up (his words, not mine), and has been thinking of all the happiness we shared. BUT then I found out he had been to meet her parents. That just about killed me. How serious is that. He also had a couple move in with him, to help with the expenses, and it's OW's sister and fiance. How deep is he going to dig his hole.?<BR>The final straw was last night at a b'day party for my Dad. H rang to speak to oldest daughter, and also spoke to Dad to wish h b'day. He mentioned that he probably wouldn't be able to get days off over the Xmas break so probably wouldn't be here. This is after visiting last weekend and telling D he would be here when Santa was here!! What IS his problem. Do we mean so little to him that he would miss Christmas ?<BR>It hurts so badly. That was when I decided to implement Plan B. Up until now, I have tried to be supportive, let him know I was there for him, loving, tried to be 'not pushy', 'tried' not to ask ?'s about OW and kept him up to date and informed about the children. I have just about had it with him and the situation. I have not argued with him about Christmas, we haven't actually spoken about it to each other - I just have what my Dad said.<BR>I think the policy of no contact will be best.<BR>My question to you all is - how do I do that when there are children involved. H rings every day to speak to our oldest, generally at the same time so I know to let her ans the ph. Do I<BR>1. email him with details of what the kids have done all week, so still keeping him informed of childrens happenings<BR>2. write him a little note with same as above<P>Is there a letter that should be sent to him letting him know what I'm doing.? I think I read in a post somewhere that a letter should be sent. Have I got that right?<BR>This is going to kill me - I'm still at the stage where any contact is better than no contact, but i can't take this situation any longer. <BR>I'm so proud of myself - I've just had my first HFD (Husband Free Day) No contact - yay. I hope I can say the same thing tomorrow.<BR>Please help me with this, you guys are so amazing. Angels from Heaven, all of you.<BR>Thanks <BR>Jo<BR>

Bonnet,<P>Plan B is hard...<BR>From what I've read in the Harley book...<BR>no contact means NO CONTACT!<P>I'm not yet at the Plan B stage...<BR>I should be there Jan/Feb of 2000...<BR>And... I too have children (3)... which makes it much harder!<P>My suggestions... and other at MB please chime in here... include<BR>1. No "ringing" him unless a severe family situation arises...<BR>2. No emailing him unless a severe family situation arises...<BR>3. No letter writing... ever (if it was a severe family situatuation "ringing" is necessary!<BR>4. Get "caller-id"... here in the "states" it is a telephone service that tells you what telephone number is attemping to call you <B>before</B> you pick up the phone. You... should not pick up the phone if H calls... <B>Or...</B> just have him call the same time everyday (like H is doing now)<BR>5. Get a third party (maybe your Father... since H talks to him) to provided you with any and all requests about your D...<BR>6. Send him <B>important</B> info (school stuff...etc. if required by law...) otherwise he has to ask your 3rd party about it!<BR>7. <B>NO</B> status about how you or D are doing... ever... no good news... no bad news...<BR>8. Let your D love... talk with... even be with... your H... this is important... <B>very important</B>! Just because <B>you</B> need to protect yourself... you can't break the ties that bind you D to your H... This is where having children in the mix is the hardest for Plan B! <BR>9. No more sex... another hard part of Plan B... yes... this counts as contact... <P>The letter you send to your H is <B>NOT</B> a status letter... it is a loving letter <B>sent just once!</B> making it cear to him that there will bot <B>no contact</B> until he gives up the OW! A very good draft is in the Harley "Surviving an Affair" book on pages 80-81 (yes... I have the page # memorized for this)... There was a post by <B>brownphd</B>, and replied to by <B>Chris (CA123)</B> not too long ago skecthing out what this <B>one time</B> letter whould include... click here to view that post... <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/009414.html" TARGET=_blank>I too have PLAN B questions</A>.<P>I really hope your ready for Plan B...<BR>It <B>is</B> very hard...<BR>A lot of people just started on it... I view Paul Moyer's alot... I'm in a similar situation to his...<BR>Look for other posts... and their difficulties... and answers to their quesions.<P>I know in my heart of hearts... I am going to head down the Plan B path in just a little while... <P>God bless and take care of you an your D...<BR>God change the heart and mind of your H...<P>Jim<p>[This message has been edited by NSR (edited November 14, 1999).]

Jo, NSR hit the nail on the head. Even with kids, plan B is possible. But it's hard any way you look at it. <P>Good luck now.<P>Lori

I am in the same boat- but, NO CONTACT.<P>A couple of members from this forum have exchanged e-mails to build another sort of support group. If interested RRINKES@YAHOO.COM. A little more help cant hurt.

hi bonnet,<P>well, all i can do is give you my experience.<BR>i went to plan b, 6 wks ago. i think i waited to long to do it, but better late than never.<BR>we have a d (2yo). for the first 5 wks of visitation, i would meet h at the door. <BR>well, last wk, h and i got into quite a fight, and decided that no contact, should mean no contact.<BR>i now have my parents acting as the go-between and i do not see or speak to h- AT ALL.<BR>as far as what you should let you h know, well, i guess i would say, only the MOST important things. things that happen in your childrens every day life, should not be devuled to you h. he has chosen to live the family and imo, should not be privledge to what goes on day to day.<BR>my h and i communicate by e-mail. these e-mails consist of vistiation changes, sickness of d (NOTHING about me- NOTHING) and any other kind of changes in her health or visitation.<BR>it is so hard to do this. but, the whole idea of plan b is to try to take care of yourself and to hopefulle get your wayward spouse to miss the life they had w/ you.<BR>i would be happy to talk to you more about this. you may e-mail me <BR>cc7315@yahoo.com<BR>good luck, bonnet. i'm pulling for you.<P>cheryl<BR>

Hi guys, thanks so much for your input. It all helps so much.<P>NSR thanks. I went to broewnphd's post and printed it. That will help. Thank you for your support - I guess I will need a lot more over the coming weeks , especially in the beginning<P>Lostva - thank you thank you. You always seem to respond to me. Did you get my post for you last night, I questioned why you weren't having that beautiful sleep? I think I was on the net at about 4.30 am your time.<BR>Have a great day, you're in my prayers<P>Covenant Thank you. I have to get daughter ready for pre-school, and baby has her vaccinations today - oh joy!! - but I will get to that site. You're right, anything and everything helps, and it ALL helps<P>ceecee Thank you for your experience. I have a feeling Plan B will go the same way for me, with parents acting as intermediaries.<BR>It's such a shame when it gets to this stage isn't it - I still can't believe my marriage was over so quickly - about 12 weeks from first inklings to leaving.!!!<BR>Thanks SO much for your email, I will send you a message via it, probably later today when oldest daughter is at preschool and baby asleep. Yay - TIME for me. This post is taking ages as she's sitting on my lap and I can't see the keyboard,!!!<P>You all have aa great day, and I'm thinking of you all.<P>Love and hugs coming your ways<P>Jo

I have been reading at this sight for business-related reasons for the past few weeks. I have seen hundreds of couples in such situations as yours. What I think is important for people here who are stuck in a cycle of hope/despair, is to aquire the knowledge that these are the natural occurances in any separation and pending divorce, not just in cases of infidelity. The focus here is too often on the other person's involvement in the situation, and less on the facts about the stages of the separation process itself. It is important to understand that a partner moving out is only the first step of the death of a relationship and the birth into a new life. Unless both people want out of the relationship, and often even then, you will see these periods of doubt and renewed declarations of love and then eventually, a return to the orignial position of the necessity of leave-taking. The painful part is that this often leaves one partner with renewed hope, yet it is a hallmark of the initial stages of separation. You will understand why the period after initial separation (for whatever reason it occurs) is often referred to as the "off-the-wall" stage!<P> Leaving a marriage is a frightening experience. People often long to return to the "known" , to what unrealistically and again often temporarily is remembered as an easier time. They want to return to a place that often false remembrances tell them is easier than the upheaval they are experiencing at the moment. People will often try to return home at this time, or attempt to re-commit, usually only temporarily if they have already been to the point of physically moving out. They may make wild promises and grand declarations that prove temporary. Often they do love their partner, even if they are not able to continue the marriage. Guilt can be overwhelming for the partner who has left, especially if there are children involved. Understand that the physical moving out is again the first step to the necessary emotional separation that follows, often in a wildly fluctuating manner. For the person who is left, and hanging on to the hopes that are bound to arise, it is important to get professional help and the support of friends and family to help maintain a position of strength. Statistics show that once a partner moves out, the chances for a solid reconcilliation drop dramatically. If a partner has made the drastic step of moving out, they are making an important declaration about their lack of desire to stay in a marriage. This seems an obvious, but a fact that can get lost in the whirlwind of emotion. A person who has left is usually someone who must go.<P>A partner who has an affair is also sending an important message. An affair does not occur in a strong, healthy marriage. This is also an obvious fact that denial encourages us to lose sight of. Unfortunately, an affair is often the signal of an eventual divorce, even if reconciliation is attempted or even successful for a short time. Marriages can survive infidelity, especially if the affair was of short duration, not a serious relationship, and if the partner regrets the choice and makes a wholehearted commitment to fixing the damaged relationship. There are always exceptions to this, naturally, but I beg to differ with Dr. Harley's numbers. Consider the important questions about the affair to determine if it was simply a cry for help. Was it of short duration? Was it a solitary event? Is the affair over? Is the partner intent on commitment? Have the partner's declarations been consistent and reliable and backed by action? If the answers to any of these questions is no, the marriage may be terminal. Releasing a dying marriage can bring sadness, but untold health and relief to both partners. <BR> <BR>What is most damaging is when a couple or a member of such, gets stuck at any point along the stages of divorce that precede stability: Preseparation, Separation, Transition Phase, New Stability. Denial of the reality of the situation, getting hooked on high emotions or misinformation about the stages, can cause people to get stuck. Try to see and understand the partner's fluctuations for what they are. Set limits to what you will accept. Declarations of re-newed love feel good, but the pain that follows can be a damaging set-back to growth achieved. If you are stuck in a cycle of hope/despair, stop the ride and get off. A person who has left will vacillate. Read the posts in here and you will see that people take a like path through separation and divorce. See it for what it is. Encourage professional help, and get it for yourself if you haven't done so already. Someone must break the hope/despair cycle for new life to begin. Professional help can get you there.

Moving itup so it's easier for peopel to resond to Plese read this and Consider this, who are you.<P>Thansk Mater for letting me know how to do this.

<P><p>[This message has been edited by skye (edited November 16, 1999).]