I have been sitting here reading for about an hour now. Responded to a few. But my mind really is not into this tonight.<P>D was dropped off by my W's step father tonight. Other than his saying a grand total of two words "Hi Empty Shell." Well it really was only two words, even if I wrote it as three. . .MIL was not with them.<P>I really do not have a clue what to think about this weekend (See my posts from last week for the more complete story.) <P>About a half hour after D got home, she wanted to wear some of her new clothes (MIL likes to "buy" our D). I told her not to, that she might ruin her new clothes if she spilled dinner on them. From that point on, until she went to bed, my D hated me again.<P>This has been a fairly common occurance since my W and I got back together again. As a baby, and really pretty much until the problems started between my W and I, my D used to love to spend time with and play with me. During the separation, she could not get enough of me. For over a year now, I have had to endure, dirty looks, and her saying "I Don't Like You."<P>I can't even blame this on my MIL. It has been going on for too long now. She is very much my little angel. . .and she would be much happier if I weren't around.<P> [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/frown.gif[/img] [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/frown.gif[/img]

Oh, ES, you know what's going on here. Childhood insecurities. Unresolved issues. Hurt and fear masked by anger and withdrawal.<P>This is how kids do it. This is how kids get it out. You wouldn't get such treatment if she didn't love you very much. Now, THAT'S a scary thought, isn't it?<P>Your job? Consistant love. No temper, no disappointment, no backing away. No matter what she throws at you, you are loving and supportive. No matter how she rejects you, you keep showing her love and coming back for more.<P>It hasn't been all that long.....not for her. She has issues on trust, abandonment, hurt, fear. And remember, in a child, the behavior is rarely directed to the appropriate place. I would venture to guess that a lot of the feelings and struggles she's going through are with HERSELF and her lack of understanding (face it, she's child) of how her world fell apart for a while. <P>You can be the target for a number of reasons. Displacement of the anger is one. But the most likely? It's because you're a SAFE target! She can hurl all she wants at you BECAUSE she knows inside it won't change the fact that you love her very much, she'll always be "Daddy's little girl". When you think about it that way, it's really a terrific compliment. I get a bit of that myself these days. And I know how much it hurts. But it feels better when you look at it and realize that it's BECAUSE she trusts in your love that she can be rotten to you.<P>Hang in there. You guys will be fine. She just needs some more time.<P>Lori

Empty Shell<BR>When I read your post, my immediate thought was that you are a safe target. Then Lori gave my answer. <BR>Really truly I can understand this. My son is 16 and I have always been that safe target. Some children need that more than others. I realized very early in his life that he needed someone with whom he felt comfortable lashing out. I consiously became that target.<BR>Sometimes they need to get things out of their system and they choose the person that they KNOW will love them no matter what. It is not an easy role to play but it is an important one.<BR>I'll give you a little example:<BR>My son went through a phase in hockey when he was letting out his frustration on the ice. I told him that it was not acceptable. Then I told him that if things were really getting to him, he was to save it till after the game. He was then given 5 minutes in the truck when he could say absolutely anything he wanted to me. <BR>If you can try to see yourself in this role, and use it to help your daughter, it may be easier for both of you.<BR> I learned to take it as a compliment. A lot of people don't understand and they think I'm nuts to let my child do this. But when I look at him now, I know that it was probably the most important thing I have done for him. He has learned that it is better to get rid of those emotions, and there are safe ways to do it.<BR>Hope this helped a little.

ES,<BR> Don't worry so much about your daughter "hating" you. She really doesn't, and it may not have a thing to do with the separation.<P> If I had a dime for everytime my daughter told me that she "hated" me, I'd be fairly well-off by now. She only "hated" me when she didn't get her way about something.<P> I found the best way to deal with it was to say, "It's OK for you to "hate" me, but I still love you. And, I'm sorry, but you still can't do (whatever it was she wanted to do)"<P> If you react negatively to it, she will only "hate" you more often.<P>

lostva -- I'm a safe target?? I'm not really sure I understand this. I'm not sure I want the job.<P>There was a time in my life, when I had given up any hope of ever having a child. There was even a time when I literally held my childs dead fetus in my hand. . . Very long story that I really don't want to go into now. Suffice it to say, that when my daughter was born, I was the happiest man on earth. She has always been everything to me. To have her "attack me" at just about ever turn of the corner is very disheartening. There are very few times that I can remember when my daughter came up to sit in my lap just to be with me. Sure, she has done this when she is sick, or when she is tired, but I can't remember the last time it was just because . . .<P>wasstubborn -- I can understand having my daughter feel comfortable coming to me when is is upset, and needs to be able to vent, and I would really like to be that person for her. I'm just not sure I like the way she is "developing" that ability.<P>Sweetpea -- I could understand this behavior if it occured when she wasn't getting her way. What bothers me the most, is that this is getting to be her normal behavior. My W (hopeful1771) tries very hard to get her to spend time with me, to play with me, to give me hugs and kisses, to tell me that she loves me. . .More times than I care to remember, when she does say that she loves me, there is so much venom in her voice, that it just about rips my heart out.

I just thought I'd jump in on this and ask a question....<P>I'm just wondering how much of ES and my D's attitude is because of me? I mean, I did take her away from her daddy and then she didn't see him everyday for almost six months. She saw me everyday but not daddy. I had no right to do that to her or her daddy, so I guess I should take my share of the blame for her "venting" on her daddy, not telling him she loves him etc.<P>Just something to think about.

Come on guys and gals. We could really use some advice here!!!!!<P>My W feels that this is her fault It's NOT. Our problems were caused by BOTH OF US.

Hi ES and Hopeful -<P>First of all, there is too much concentration on "fault" here..RELAX.<P>It's probably a combination of factors.<P>Yes, the separation and disruption of the "normal" family atmosphere has some bearing here. Add in hearing (and I'm sure she heard at some point) people say not so nice things about Daddy and that sets the target.<P>But, there also is a lot of truth with the other factors....lashing out at the safe target, needing a way to vent her not really understood emotions, perhaps a little extra attention from you guys because of all that's gone on....etc.<P>There's a lot that is going into this..the one thing that I can guarantee ES is that she does not hate you!!!<P>She is confused and scared...and she probably doesn't even know why!!<P>Just be consistant with her - in her schedule, her discipline and with showing her your love. Reassure her that you will always be there for her and that you and Mommy are fine now.<P>Let her vent, but not go overboard. I like Sweetpea's response when "I hate you" comes out....<P>Did you ever ask her why she says it? Have you tried to talk with her about it?<P>If this continues after you have been consistant and tried what we've suggested than perhaps a child psychologist would be beneficial.<P>HUGS,<P>Sheba

Sheba -- It was never my intention to blame anyone. Especially not hopeful.<P>Talking with D about this is difficult at best. Yes, there have been several times taht hopeful and I have asked her why she says the things she does. Her answer is ALWAYS the same . . ."I don't know" or "Because you're mean."<P>Maybe counselling for her is an option we should consider. Thank you for responding.<P>God Bless

All children respond to situations in different ways. My husband (2 soulmates) and I have three children (R-female 8 yrs, B-male 4 yrs. and C-female 2 yrs.) and they have all reacted to the stress and emotional feelins in our house at this time in different ways. R is feeling loney and unimportant, "You and daddy spend all your time talking or fighting and don't want to spend time with me anymore, nobody wants to be with me.". I have responded by trying to spend a little extra time with her at night when I tuck her in, Giving her extra hugs and kisses and reassuring her that sometimes grown-ups have to spend time talking so that they can love each other better. I have also told her that we love her and love each other.<BR>B has become very tempermental, getting very upset if things don't go his way. Hate has become a word that he uses quite regularly even though it isn't a word we use at all. He has also developed a fear of the dark that was never there before. Again I have spent some special time with him, assured him of our love for him and each other. I play a game with him called "who loves B". We go down a list of names, as many as we can think of and say "mommy loves B, Daddy loves B, R loves B, C loves B,...".<BR>C is still a baby but she does notice things. A few days ago when I was strapping her int her highchair she said in a sing-song voice "mommy crying, mommy crying..." I wasn't crying at that moment but I had been a lot lately. It just made me realize how much it all effects them. Exta hugs and kisses to the baby now.<BR>I don't know if this helps at all but I just wanted to let you know that everything effects our kids and they all react in different ways. Love your D, support her in this difficult time with love and assurances that you and your wife are doing everything you can to make the grown-up problems in her world better and let her know that you and your wife love each other too.<P>------------------<BR>I am holding my heart out to you and ask only that you receive it and give me yours in return.<BR>Nicole

Hi ES -<P>I was saying that you are BOTH taking on to much fault for D's behavior...<P>Nobody's blaming anyone....you're blaming yourself, Hopeful is blaming herself....not necessary!!<P>By D saying "I don't know" or "cuz you're mean" should tell you that she hasn't a clue what she is saying - only that she is finally reacting to feelings she had.....<P>How is she in school?<P>Hugs,<P>Sheba<P>

ES and Hopeful<P>It's not your fault. Either of you. The life situations she has had to live through ARE difficult for a little girl and have shaken her sense of stability a bit. But that foundation can be rebuilt even stronger.<P>Look at it this way. She believed in your family and your love "just because". A belief based on faith alone. And that's great. But it's not really an indication of how the world and life really is. You're showing her something even better now, even though it's rattled her cage somewhat. You're showing her that love is real, people make mistakes, love and forgiveness have the real power, family IS the most important thing and all things wonderful are worth working for. What a wonderful lesson!<P>But she's scared. And she strikes out. Sorry, ES, but you and probably Hopeful at some point are going to have to provide that SAFE target. That proof to her that no matter how angry she is, whatever she does, you will never ever stop loving her. Her faith has been tested a little. It may take a lot of time for you to renew it. She probably can't talk about what's going on in her head and heart because she doesn't really know herself. She just knows something's not right. It's BECAUSE she loves you so much that she lashes out.<P>Counselling is probably not a bad idea. You'll have to make that determination. But, like Sheba and everyone else says, just be consistant, with discipline, with schedules, with tons and tons of love and affection even when it's rejected (sounds a lot like Plan A, huh??). You can and will give her back her foundation, that solid thing she's looking for right now.<P>I forgot, how old is she now? As far as just sitting in your lap "just because." Well, I wish someone had whispered to me the last time that was gonna happen, so I could have cherished that moment for what it was. It goes away. But you will share new and different things. I learned very early on in my d's life that if I didn't stop to wish for the things about my "baby" that were gone forever, I could appreciate and enjoy more completely the "new" things she could give me. What a wonderful wonderful experience. <P>Hang in there, you guys. You're doing just fine. Your combined love and dedication will fix this for your little girl. It just takes them a little more time.<P>((((((((((ES and Hopeful))))))))))<P>Lori

I'm speaking as a father of four kids. <P>My advice is don't get bent out of shape over this. Everyone of my kids has told me (and my wife) they hated us at one time or another. They have said a bunch of other things of which we will not tolerate disrespect. Every night I hug my kids and I tell them I love them. Even my 13 year old son still gives me a hug. <P>Being a parent isn't easy. Being a kid isn't easy either. <P>I have found that my kids are totally devoted to their mother until they reach about 6-8 years old. then daddy starts becoming an equal parent in their eyes. I didn't take it personally. After all, they were with their mother a heck of a lot more in the early years than they were with me. <P>As they get older, they enjoy spoending more time with me. My daughter (8) has really opened up to me in the last year or so. I get tons of hugs and kisses now and I like it! My boys opened up a little earlier to me than my daughter; more of a guy thing I guess. <P>ES, first kids are tough. You don't know what to expect at any age so you are always in a constant stage of bewilderment. Just do your best and love them all you can. Stay consistent in your behavior towards her. In time, she'll see that you love her no matter how she responds to you. <P>SHA<p>[This message has been edited by Sir Hurts Alot (edited November 16, 1999).]

untallnikba, Sheba, lostva and Sir Hurts Alot -- Thank you for taking the time to try and help me (us) understand this a little better. You know, it's one thing to work through Plan A with your spouse . . . I guess I just never anticipated having to Plan A my D.<P>The examples which everyone has given in this thread have given me a lot to think about. I guess it's true that I still have a lot to learn. . .about a lot of things.<P>Thank you for keeping me focused ahead.<P>God Bless

ES, I have not forgotten you, I just can't find my information. Packed away in storage I am afraid. So I went searching the internet I found one I think might help you understand ADD and how you can help your daughter it is <A HREF="http://www.attn-deficit-disorder.com" TARGET=_blank>www.attn-deficit-disorder.com</A> <BR> I hope this helps. I know you are very hurt concerning her behavior, but I really think this may be her problem. There are many ways to deal with it. I know some parents don't want to medicate their child and I know others that only do that. To really help the child you shouldn't rely on medication alone, there are behavior modifications that you can do at home and at school to help, you should also find a counselor who deals with ADD. Hope this helps and keep me informed. I willkeep looking for more information if you are interested.<P>------------------<BR>di<P>

SDS -- Thank you for the link. I have bookmarked it and will check it tomorrow.<P>Don't mean tobe short, but the past couple weeks have been very long, and I need to try and get some sleep.<P>God Bless