My H announced tonight that he had found a new job - apparently he started yesterday. Although he told me the name of the company, he did not tell me where it is located, or his phone number. There is no way to get a hold of him during the day in case of emergency. It occurred to me after he left that I don't know who our medical insurance carrier is - I don't know if we can keep the same doctor, or go to the same hospital. Hopefully no one will get sick until he answers my email. <P>When he went on vacation with her, he didn't say where he was going. If something had happened to one of the kids, he wouldn't have found out for a week. If something had happened to me, what would have become of the kids? They could have ended up in temporary foster care.<P>He does this over and over, ever since he left. It is not that he intends to keep his activities secret forever - he sent the kids postcards from his trip, so we know where he went, he told me about his new job, albeit belatedly. Does it give him some sense of power? Sometimes it seems like this is just more of the same mindset as he expressed when he said, while still at home, that he was an independent person and didn't have to answer to anyone, when I got upset that he had stayed out many hours longer than he had said he would(before discovery). Does it never occur to him that a situation might arise that he might want to be contacted about? How could that not occur to him, when not that long before he left I spent an entire day desparately trying to find my sister when her son was fatally injured?<P>Is he completely disconnected from reality? It is not just the affair - it is like his entire life has become a fantasy. He has left it all behind at home - including almost all of his belongings. <BR>

I think he is in his selfish mode. Me, Me, and me. My H is kinda doing the same thing. He is a dad one day and the next 3 he does not call. Though he is in town staying at his folks for now. He says he is burnt out and wants to start taking care of him and not us. He is there for us finacally so far, but he is in his own world. I think your husband is too. It is too bad that it will be a lonely world once they wake up. Hang in there. The more you want to know where they are the more they feel they are threatened. If they do not find out about a child illness it is their loss, not yours, you are there for your children and they will remember it. He will be the one apologising not you.

ugh, all men are like this. H went out with his hussy several weeks ago, leaving me at home with a 2 week old, and a 2yo with horrible diarrhea. what would have happened if i had to go to the hospital with him? i hate this, too, nellie.<P>------------------<BR> <A HREF="http://www.alladvantage.com<BR>ID#" TARGET=_blank>www.alladvantage.com<BR>ID#</A> atp-113<P>

Nellie, Again a mirror of what I am dealing with.<BR>SECRECY = CONTROL<BR>Secrecy gives him what he believes is some controlover his own life and also over you.<P>""mom" does not need the information as I can do whatever I like as I am not responsible for anyone, unless I choose to be" It is that you do not have facts ypou need as a parent that is the reality of the situation, but it is not seen as such. H believes that you only need it to "control" him, but does not understand the reality. Again it is to "punish you" as it controls information to you. The fact that you realistically need it is of no importance to H. It is seen as further "control" you have that you need the info. Real life and responsibilities are out the window. All part of the fantasy of mlc <P>When H moved out he would not tell me where he lived, would not give me phone #. When I told him that I needed this as I would have to get hold of him if an emergency arose with one of the kids. His answer. "Well our daughter knows, so you can just drive around with her and she will show you!!!" D is 13 years old. I told him that if it was an emergency, the last thing I would be doing was driving up and down a street downtown looking for where he lived. I said if it was an emergency it would be with one of the kids so why would I spend this time searching for him!!!!" He still did not understand!!!<BR>7 months later I have a phone # but no address and at schools for my 2 younger children, they do not have their father's address!!How sad it all is that these previously competent men have so lost it that they do not even think realistically. It is a case of "give to me what I want no matter what and I will keep on doing what I want and I care about no one or anything and if I hurt others in the process, well too bad, as long as I can have what I want"<P>That is what makes this all so doubly hurtful. This is not "only an affair" this is a life turned upside down and destruction of so many other peoples emotions towards so many other things.<BR>There is no morality, family, values, belief in religion...there is nothing but instant pleasure and hedonism. What a shame <p>[This message has been edited by willbok99 (edited November 17, 1999).]

Nellie It is all apart of this fantasy life they live. Emergencies only happen in real life. Nothing goes wrong in their world. So how can they understand the need to get in tocuh with them. I think they may see it as a way to push our way into their fantasy and they will do anything and I mean anything to keep real life out. I have come to accept this fact that the person who inhabits my H body is not the man I love and married, had children with or even wanted to grwo old with. This is entirely a new person and I don't like this person at all. <BR>I have been reading your other post but haven't responded but I hurt so much for you. I really hate to see you become so bitter about life. Yes there are quite a few people oout there that are no good but to give up teaching your children not to trust anyone is not protecting them from hurt. You are making them to become the very thing you hate so much. Instead you need to teach them that yes there are people that will hurt you but you must not destroy you but you must pick your self up and go on with your life. If you are really satisfied and happy with who you are you will be great, and will find people who feel the same way. I know how are it has been for me tostart a new life and with children I can't imagine but it is what you have to do. I know easier said then done. I can't remember how old the youngest is or what you career was. But I think you need tothink about getting on with your life. I don't want this to sound cold and hard hearted. I am very worried about you and I think getting out would help you so much. I know being at home our thought run rampant. I have done that. And being busy with the children and house doesn't really help because the are consant reminders of the way life is suppose to be. But getting out among adults is a great help. I hope I haven't made you mad just remember all this was said out of loce and concern for you.<P>------------------<BR>di<P>

My H has always (although I didn't know it at the time) had his little secrets. Now he is more open about it (like when he got his new job, refused to discuss the financial part of it). He has always viewed me as "controlling" and I feel like if he thinks he has little secrets that's his way of having "control". I prepare the taxes, etc., so everything comes out in the open eventually anyway. He does give me phone numbers, etc., and always tells me what he's been up to in his spare time without me asking. I do know for a fact that sometimes he leaves out "little details", but he isn't really lying either.

my3kids,<BR>But I am afraid it will be the child's loss too, if there father is not there for them in an emergency.<BR>love WAS blind,<BR>I don't understand how they can not think of what is happening with their kids. If one of ours is sick, hardly ever does he contact me to ask how she is. While he was home, two of the kids and I ended up stranded in the cold and dark when the car broke down, because he was on one of his "long lunch hours". I don't know how they deal with the guilt.<BR>willbok,<BR>I think it does have a lot to do with control, and it seems to be characteristic of MLC affairs, as opposed to other types. My H did not tell us his phone number, although he did have a pager which was sometimes on. If I had not found out the number myself, I probably still wouldn't know it, even now that he is taking the children over to her house.<BR>SDS,<BR>I have been working for several months 20 hours a week - I think I spend more than enough time out of the house, now. My youngest is 3. It is not really a matter of getting on with my life. I am getting on with my life, I am certainly plenty busy, but the important goals of my life are no longer within the realm of possibility. As I am sure you know, it is an entirely different matter to have someone hurt you whom you have known for a short while, and an entirely different matter when you have trusted that person for 25 years, or in my children's case, their entire lives. I am reasonably satisfied with whom I am, and I thought I had found someone 25 years ago who felt the same way - and I think he did, until he was taken over by depression/MLC.<P>janie,<BR>Although he wasn't the kind of person who came home and spent hours talking about his day, my H was never particularly secretive until the affair started. He never accused me of being controlling, until after the affair started. Actually, he was never particularly critical of my personality, though he was sometimes critical of specific things I did or said.

Nellie,<P>I agree with willbok99 about secrecy equalling power. I do think the hiding AND the revealing of information by our betraying S's has to do with them feeling "in control". In some ways, I think this supports the assertion that there is an element of low self-esteem or power struggle issues associated with many affairs.<P>Roll Me Away

Roll Me Away,<BR>One of the things my H complained about after he left was that I "never let him do what he wanted", and I have since learned that that claim is typical of men in MLC. I think the low self-esteem has a lot to do with it - I am sure my H felt guilty about going into business for himself and almost ruining us financially, since he has said that he was kicking himself for it. Unfortunately the very sight of me reminds him of his failure. Perhaps affairs can be divided into at least two categories - unmet "needs" and a feeling of failure. I think if the people who say that they tried for years to get their spouse into counseling and then have affairs would fall into the first category, while MLC falls into the second category.

Nellie,<P>I think the main reason for all the secrecy is to avoid real life and responsibility. Also, my counselor told me that any man involved in EA feels trapped. When I discovered my H's affair, his first words to me were "I feel so trapped here". Later he also told me that he felt he had no control in our marriage. I think all these things are typical of their mindset. My 8 year old had a concussion a few weeks ago, his dad checked on him once, then went to be with OW.<BR>They do not want to deal with responsibility and that has as much to do with the kids as it does you. They don't just leave their wives, they leave their families and lifestyles. The whole thing is a burden to them and they want to be happy and carefree. I think my ex-H would be happy if he could start fresh and not have any reminder of his family. It is a problem with THEM, not us. There is no way you can convince me that things were so bad in our home that he had to leave his family. I was there, too! No one deserves to be treated this way.<P>AD