I haven't seen any threads about this issue. Yet, I think it effects each one of us who is trying -- regardless of success rate -- to rebuild their marriage. Here it goes...<P>What involvement do you think "third parties" (friends, family, co-workers) have on the success or failure of a marriage on the mend?<P>In MOHO (my own humble opinion), the least amount of "outsiders" or "third parties" that know about your troubles, the better. So many outsiders know only part of the story, and yet they all seem to have an opinion. In many cases, strong opinions.<P>In my own case, my W had (still having?) an EA with her "best friend's" H. Yet, my W's friends appeared to have come to the "aid" of my W and think that I am the one who is out of line. Could have to do with my confrontation of the OM. I don't yet know -- and may never know -- what the OM's W thinks. (I'm not fond of her -- never was.) I gather she's fine since she and my W still apparently have contact. <P>It just baffles me that these "third parties" have taken support of my W, and none to me. Do they not see? Could be that two friends have recently divorced and may be guiding my W from a slanted point of view.<BR>But, it's as though nobody has thought to ask -- Did she have an affair?<P>I also don't think it warrants my addressing it with them since... why is it their business, anyway!<P>Anyway... What do you think?<P>-- keystone

keystone,<P>Well, here is another question to add in there: how many of your friends/relatives know and are NOT supporting your decision to try to save the marriage?<P>I think that our friends and our S's friends often support the view they THINK we want to hear, but not always. I am getting alot of pressure from those close to me who know to give up on my H - and truthfully, he is not looking back but pressing onward with the OW, so there is probably validity there in my case to think about giving this up.<P>I suspect you W's friends, since recently divorced themslevs, feel justified in sanctioning the position of "you gotta do what FEELS right to you; you gotta be happy, etc."<P>What about the question I posed above?? <P>Roll Me Away

RMA --<P>An interesting one. I've tried (and I think so far have succeeded) in keeping my family "out of the loop". I don't think my W has mentioned it to her family.<P>My parents have not been fond of my W. But, I've had strained relationship with my folks for some time. My in-laws, however, are great! Too bad we don't know how to clone humans, yet!<P>Anyway, if my family knew, they'd support a breakup. But, this is MY W and MY FAMILY (W and 2 kids). That's the only thing that matters to me. It's easy for my folks to criticize, but they don't have to live with their decisions -- I DO. Therefore, I've left them out of the loop.<P>It's so much easier to offer options when you only have half the story, and have none of the emotional connection. <P>Re: W's friends. I agree with your assesment. Plus, you've got shows like "Once and Again" on the air to support that divorce is okay. Seems like an easy way out to me. <P>--keystone

keystone,<P>This is really a good question. Has me thinking more, but sometimes that gets dangerous <P>Anyway, I agree that you and you alone should decide about what you want out of all this, and whether you are ready to keep trying or throw in the towel.<P>In thinking about your question, it raises another question to me - or rather dilemma. I have a H who is gone, who has told me that he is in-love with someone else. He has mentioned D, but as done nothing to get one. He really waves the affair in my face. Yet, he comes around me evey so often I think just to make sure this fish is still dangling on the line. He has not done anything to try to end the affair. He has done NOTHING of substance to make me believe he want to work on our marriage. He has just returned from a trip with OW. He has spent virtually all his time in FL since he movedf out 5 weeks ago.<P>OK, so as my dear uncle asked me last night: What part of "No" don't you understand, angel?" This is where I am getting loving advice from people that love my H (This uncle was best man at our wedding) that I need to give it up, because there is nothing happening here. No little signs or anything that there is anything to wait and hope for. This affair is 9 months old and appears to be going strong. So, since I am asking for advice - what do YOU think?? What would you do???<P>Roll Me Away

I have been given alot of "wisdom" from outsiders - and most of it is very negative. Hardly anyone supports me for staying with my h. after his affair. Most say you're being too nice or how can you stay - how can you trust him again - I'd be gone. But how can they judge?<BR>"Outsiders" can try to influence us into doing what is right or wrong (have an affair, leave your spouse....), but ultimately it is our own decision to make. It's too bad that these people can't just be sounding boards and keep their unprofessional, personal opinions to themselves. Anyone going through any sort of crisis is very vulnerable and confused and can easily be swayed into doing things they possibly wouldn't do if they had a clear head and didn't have ideas drilled into it.

RMA --<P>I am of the mind that I do want to rebuild my marriage. I try not to care about the outside influences of those third parties. But, I don't know that my W is so inlclined to disregard her friend's options. Only time will tell.<P>Re: your situation... I'm sure you're in counseling. I gather he is not going to that either since you say he has done nothing to address the issues. Is it time for Plan B? It's really unfortunate that he doesn't realize what he's doing, or does realize but doesn't care.<P>These are questions more than appraisals. I'm going through a really tough patch right now (aren't we all?) so my judgement these last few days has been hit-and-miss.<P>One question for you and tmdm:<P>Affairs are hard to carry on without another party knowing. Do you think that friends or family knowingly conspire to support affairs?<P>How's that one for ya<P>Chin up, all...<P>--keystone<BR>

I wouldn't say that they "knowingly conspire to support affairs", but the fact that her friends "came to her aid" when she was having one and thought you were the one out of line kind of makes me think that they were supporting her affair.<BR>I said before that I think people should just be sounding boards and when asked for opinions on what to do, should make it clear that they cannot advise, that they only want whats best for their friend and that only she can make the decision.<P>Alot of times family also always has to put in their two cents worth - they are obviously going to be very biased and will usually side with their own. This is probably why you have decided not to include yours.<P>I just found it very disheartening for so many people to discourage my efforts and/or make me feel (not intentionally I'm sure) like I'm such a fool to stay and work things out. Sounding boards - avenues to vent - this is what they should be - keep their opinions and analyses to themselves.

You should be applauded for your efforts to save your marriage. Don't ever forget that.<P>I was always of the belief that you married once and for life. How hard reality hits sometimes.<P>--keystone

At first, I decided that I knew what was best, I was going to take all the blame (as my wife had suggested I should), and I was going to do everything I could think of to pull things back together. I only listened (if you can believe it) to my ex's friends and family for advice. That was very handy because they were all in her camp, turns out. Unfortunately all that this lead to was a great deal of misery on my part and a lot of resentment on my ex's part, some very heated arguments that the kids didn't really need to hear, and strained relations at a time when the relationship could bear no strain.<P>After that, I received a great deal of advice from my parents, trusted friends, and a counselor. Fortunately for me most of this advice was bang on. I wish I had followed more of it and sooner.<P>Don't get me wrong, it didn't help save the relationship at all. But I guess sometimes it is easier to see the landscape from on a hill rather than from in the valley. That the relationship was over was a forgone conclusion, and everybody saw it but me. Once I could see that and let go, I was able to start building a more constructive "post-marriage" relationship and put things in the best possible outcome for the kids.<P>I think the most important thing is to know who you can trust and who you can't. Everybody is entitled to their opinion, but that doesn't mean every opinion is just as good.<P>And it is important to know what the "interest" the person giving the advice is. For instance, you don't take advice about the quality of a certain brand of car from a car salesman. His motivation is to get your money on his commission check. He will say absolutely anything you want to do that. Most everyone would seel an Eskimo a refrigerator for a buck.<P>So try and think where the person's loyalties are, and what's in it for them. For instance, Keystone, your wife's friends are going to be loyal to her, not you. She could be an axe murderer and they would support her and not you. Best if you don't talk much with them. Her parent's will want what is best for their daughter and the grandchildren (if they are normal). As soon as they realize that she will not be convinced, they will naturally be inclined to work in her best interest, not yours. "Make the most of a bad situation", if you will.<P>The best person to give advice is someone who has no stake in it at all. The second best person is someone who's best interest is closely aligned with your own. The worst is someone who may gain at your expense.<P>

When my H fooled around, I told everyone. When I fooled around, I told everyone.<P>I have a big mouth, am honest to a fault (which made my affair all the more horrifying, went against everything I believed in, thankfully, which is why I think it ended so soon.) <P>Most of my friends and my mother think that I was a fool to have stayed this long, for lots more reasons than the affairs. Most of his family and a few of my family think that he's the fool for staying with me now that <B>I</B> cheated.<P>And then there's the lone few who think we should try to stick it out.<P>I wish to God I hadn't told so many people. That's what I think... <P>keystone, you're doing great, and I applaud your desire to put right that which has been wronged...<P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Marriage: the most important contract you'll ever enter into, and the most sacred.<P>

I told a couple from church who were both friends with both of us and also he was my doctor. He saw my pain and pretty much said, okay, tell me what is wrong. They helped me a lot. I knew they wouldn't judge my H and would tell me what I needed to hear.<P>I told one other dear girlfriend and since my H was good friends with her H, my H told him too, but probably wouldn't have if I hadn't pretty much insisted that he tell the H, that was because they were fighting so much over my friend's secrecy. She gave me someone to vent to. She also gave me enough confidence to be able to leave or stay. My H greatly resents her involvement, because he feels she is trying to convince me to leave. I don't feel she is, but she saw that I wasn't strong enough to leave at first and felt I needed to be able to so that I could decide to stay.<P>I decided initially to not tell my parents, that was 18 months ago, and felt it wasn't my place to tell his.<P>I do wish he would tell his Mom. She won't judge us, she is really a great MIL. He is so distant to his own family and to me. It is like he can't connect with anyone. He is so convinced that he can do this all on his own (he always adds that he wants me to help him and together we can do anything).<BR>

We have like two hundred other parties.<P>My H, the OW and me all work in the same place and basically it all became public knowledge. We were wondering when they were going to send out an E-mail to the entire company!!!<P>Everyone was on my side, couldn't understand why my H would have an affair with The Vampire, and basically wanted The Vampire to quit and dissappear. No such luck yet, but one can hope... <P>Anyway, it's nice having all that support, but if they were against me, that would be very very tough. I think overall, it's best when fewer people know, because when I walk down the hall and pass someone, I wonder "does he know? Does he think I'm stupid for staying married?"<P>But I do think it's important for us to get support from a few close friends.

It reall seems to vary from everyone's post so far. That was true in my case.<P>Some mutual friends "Ran" because lets face it, they want to really avoid the thought that an affair could happen on their marriage. But parents and their past experience and the imporance of their emotional needs process seems imporant too!<P>My W's mother was a negative impact. After a 40+ year marriage that was filled with far fewer ups than downs, both her Mother & Father began to exclaim that they should of gone their separate ways in year #1 of their marriage as they had intially talked of.<P>Close to 4 years before I betrayed, my W'f Father passed away and during these rough times her Mother's friend confessed to an affair with my W's late Father.<P>When we told her Mother about my betrayal, she was convinced that there was only acceptable course of action and that Plan A and Plan B was unacceptable. The only course of action that was true and the correct path was to put closure on a event that can never be overcome and as she used to say, "Get away from a Man who is very sick and defective"<P>That coaching I really feel had an impact in that Plan A lasted not even 60 days and Plan B lasted only 7 days...the rest is history.<P>mr rlk

Keystone,<P>Your wife's friends are on her side. While I'm sure they care for you as well, their loyalties are to her first. She is talking to them with alot of hurt and they want her to be happy. <P>While my family does not know about my affair they have never been really fond of my husband. I didn't even open up to them about how serious our problems were until just recently. I can tell you that while my family believes in marriage, etc., the also don't want me to hurt, and took my side immediately. In a way, opening up to them made it easier for to possibly leave in the future. While I know if my parents knew about the affair, they would be extremely upset with me but their my parents, they want their daughter to be happy.<P>I think your wife's friends being through a divorce definitely slants their opinion.

My MIL says "I don't care if you too aren't happy - you have 3 kids and you stay together for them." She then progresses to tell me all about her "lovely life" and how the two of them basically live separate lives. Not the greatest "advice" I must say!