At our joint counseling session today the therapist said I was unable to heal and move on because I didn't have a clear picture of the nature of his affair. In January H announced he was leaving me; said there was no one else. H disclosed his affair in March. (It had ended two weeks earlier). H wouldn't tell me who op was until May; only said they were "real close" and she was his "oasis" and there was "kissing" on four occasions - one at a hotel room. At various times he has said the affair was one year; 5 or 6 months; or a couple of months. <BR>Today I got to ask a lot of questions. H wrote them down - will get back with answers next week. He is very angry and frustrated; says I am insatiable in my quest for details; this exercise is counterproductive.<BR>Among my questions were:<BR>-how long was the affair<BR>-did he meet her each Saturday and Sunday at the office<BR>-did he take her out<BR>-did he love her<BR>-does he still have a special place in his heart for her<BR>-he called me from the hotel room the night he was with her- was the call before or after<BR>-he transferred her out of his department in the middle of the affair - why? why did it then escallate?<BR>-where did they have their kissing/petting sessions<BR>-how did the affair end<BR>-did she want it to end<BR>-does he have any negative thoughts about her<P>Now I am so scared of the answers...But I keep going over and over the time period and thinking about what he was doing and imagining the worse. I have asked some of these questions before and H has refused to answer saying I should keep my eye on the ball - the present. I want to focus on the present, the future...but I feel like he has this big secret that has never been fully shared. I know just hearing these questions has pushed H away. It seems so late in the recovery process to have to be asking these questions. Does anyone think getting these answers will help me get closure? I am going to be miserable and scared until next week - and then who knows...<BR>Your thoughts, experiences would be helpful.<BR> Simone

I think you have to answer that yourself. I know more about my W affair than I care to know- that has been an obsession with me. It dosen't matter to me- the more details I get or have , the worse I may react to her, so I either dont allow myself to dwell on it or try to forgive.

Simone --<P>Be careful what you wish for. I personally want answers to my W's relationship with the OM, but she's not offering. Nothing. I've got proof (e-mails, phone calls, etc), but that doesn't matter.<P>I'd offer the following idea. It's not easy, cause it goes against what I think you and I both want-- answers and reassurance.<P>Here's the idea: Plan A all the way. Support you H in a positive, non-threatening way. Understand that it may be difficult for him to understand, articulate, or deal with his affair. He may also be angry and resentful -- both at you and himself. Pushing for answers will only drive him back to the peace and support of the OW!<P>Finally, find what it was that drove him to seek the OW. Look at the emotional needs. Examine the past, reflect on times of old and see if you can pinpoint an event or time in your lives as a couple when things went astray. For me, it dawned BIG TIME after I spent a few hours looking through old photo albums. Look at your faces, even your body language. It's amazing what it may reveal.<P>If you can find where you went down seperate paths, and not try to push so hard toward answers -- at least now -- you might have a better shot at recovery.<P>Read this website's data. Check into Harley's books. Think before you act. The frustration, anger, hurt, depression -- al of it -- is normal. It sucks, but it's what we all go through. Use this site to vent if you have to. But, try to find something positive and constructive to act upon. <P>AND, (TOUGHEST OF ALL), HAVE PATIENCE.<P>Keep your chin up. You're not alone!<P>--keystone

well, I agree with covenant. You can get too much info and get overload from it all. At first, I was insatiable in my quest to "know" everything. Well, now I know more than I really care to know.<P>What difference has all this knowledge made? Has it changed the outcome of anything? NO<BR>Has it made me understand anything any better? NO<BR>Does it really make me feel better to know when and where they are going and what they are doing? NO<BR>Did seeing pictures of them together make me feel better? NO<BR>Did I enjoy hearing him say he was in-love with her and only "loved" me? NO<P>I guess you have to ask yourself these questions: Do you think you will feel better knwing the answers? - remember, you have to expect the WORST possible answers for each question. Will knowing the answers help you 2 rebuild the marriage because for you it provides some sense of closure? If yu can not say exactly why knowing the answers will HELP, then maybe it is better not to know such details.<P>Having said all that, I do think you should know on a broad level the extent and scope of his affair/relationhship with the OW. If he has misrepresented it or downplayed it, he should as yu 2 are working toward rebuilding, at tleast come clean with the truth about the nature of their relationship, if it is other than he described to you previously.<P>My opinions, only...<P>Roll Me Away<P>

How much you want to know is up to you. I suggest you read some of the information on this web site about this topic. I also suggest you visit Peggy Vaughan's web site and read what she has to say about it.<P> <A HREF="http://www.dearpeggy.com/question.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.dearpeggy.com/question.html</A> <P>As many visitors to this site can attest, the dishonesty/deception is often harder to deal with than whatever sexual relations took place.

Simone,<P>Problem #1: If you do ask questions, frame them carefully. One thing I learned is that the betrayer will automatically assume that the narrowest definition of terms is being used. For example...<BR>Q: "Did you tell him you loved him?<BR>A: No<BR>Q: Did you email him that you loved him?<BR>A: Yes<P>Shades of President Clinton! <P>Problem #2. Picture Jack Nicholson on the witness stand...<BR>Tom Cruise: "I want the truth"<BR>Jack N.: "You can't handle the truth!"<P>Can you? Be prepared to learn some heartbreaking info. But learning the truth (no matter how bad) is always better than burying your head in the sand.<P>

well said 2sad4words;<P>Perhaps what we betrayeds all want is and end to their sharing of secrets and our spouse to be fully open and honest with us. When we have to force answers out of them, it doesn't seem to help. It does seem to help when they answer openly letting us judge what we can take and being willing to take their consequences. How much easier it would be if they would get it out and get it over with. I have asked my H to review the time of his emotional affair and try to remember when he felt concern for me, was torn, etc.... to find those mitigating moments. Some of the truthful responses have been far less threatening than the facts I imagined when I filled in the blanks.

I too needed to know everything for some reason. I think part of the reason is to know that my h. was willing to tell me the truth! It IS like peeling an onion though. First you get denial, then part admission,then "there's nothing going on", then we just danced, then we kissed once, to a few kisses, to.......I had to do alot of the asking (in a safe way so that he didn't feel backed up against a wall). <BR>I'm glad I know but it's like a double edged sword - because now that I DO know all the details, it is hard to be in certain situations - it's like I have movies in my head - like we can be dancing a certain way and I suddenly think ugg they probably danced like this , or during intimate moments, I wonder, did they do it like this?... you get the picture. Then I feel sad - and I don't want him to really know I'm feeling sad because I feel like that bring to his mind the situation and think of her!!!!!! That's the last thing I want.<BR>So after all my rambling, I guess I'd say that knowing is good - sort of - just knowing that my h. isn't trying to dodge the questions and/or lie to me is comforting...<BR>it's the "movies" I could do without.<BR>I wish you well.

Maybe we just seek the answers to regain some order in our lives. The shock of your spouse having an affair turns your life upside down. Seeking the answers appears to be the first reaction we all naturally have. It just may not be the best course of action as our situations play themselves out.<P>-- keystone

Simone, I have to say about the same as some, don't ask unless your willing to deal with the truth. The other thing is that I would think the questions through very thoroughly, are they destructive to your marriage or are they something that will put your mind at peace. I had thousands of questions and every once in awhile I still have some curious thoughts but I walk away from the temptation.<BR>The other thing is that I would read "After the Affair". In this book it advises the betrayer that if there is any possibility to answer any and all questions as honestly as possible. You might want to buy the book for your H. My H had a hard time reading it, sometimes it's hard to face the guilt of the extent of how badly the betrayer has hurt the spouse. <BR>Either way, careful about the questions you might not like the answers! God Bless!<P>------------------<BR>Chick's <BR>Bren<P>You won't see things until your ready to not be blind!<P>

I pushed my wife for answers about her affair before I knew about Plan "A", which I am now trying to follow. While I really want to know details, the few I do know are "eating me alive". They had sex at the motel we were staying at while separated, in the same bed I was sleeping in while I was there. I cannot drive by this motel any more. I also work next to a Suite where they met and had sex. I see it every day, and it triggers the "movies" in my head. A part of me wishes I didn't know, but I do believe you have to make your own decision, but be aware of the consequences!

Thanks for all your thoughtful responses. The therapist really caught me off guard today with this exercise. I kind of wish it didn't happen. Now that H is so angry and so adamant that no good can come of answering my questions, I fear the answers even more than I did...he must have something awfully hurtful he is still hiding. He says no good whatsoever came from his disclosures so far.<P>covenant - that is my fear - the more information I have the more obsessed I may become. On the other hand, what I don't know I keep wondering about.<P>keystone - I have done Plan A up until now. I don't think H wants to go back to the ow; he is sincere about working on the marriage. We really haven't examined exactly when things went astray - it was more of a long slow erosion over many years.<BR>During the last few I was very depressed about our inability to have a child and the way he treated me with such contempt and resentment. (funny I wasn't the one to have an affair) He had his affair during my 6th and 7th miscarriages. I agree with you that getting the answers to some of my questions is my way of regaining control after my life has been turned upside down. But he controls all the information.<P>Roll Me Away - the answers you presented are the ones I fear. But at the same time don't I at least deserve to know how long his affair was (there is a big difference between a couple of months and a year) and what he feels now about her.<P>TCL - I did check out the vaughn website you recommended. I was surprised at the statistics showing a much better recovery when the affair is most openly and honestly discussed. Maybe I should print it for H.<P>2sadforwords - You make a good point. My H is an expert at answering in either the vaguest or the narrowest possible terms. As we are both lawyers these things easily turn into a cross examination with a lot of questions like "what exactly do you mean by the word "meeting". H still says there were no "secret meetings", yet he later admitted they went to a hotel room together. (I think in his mind the meeting wasn't secret because he called me from the hotel and I knew they were both there attending a conference) You get the idea.<P>wesse - Yes, that is what I want - NO SECRETS<BR>It is as if his affair period remains a deep dark secret withheld from his wife because he so adamantly refuses to discuss it. I do think this would have been much easier for both of us if he was more open and got it out early on in our recovery. Instead it has been dragged on for ten months. Like in your case, the few answers I have gotten have been less hurtful that what I had imagined. Maybe he knows these answers will really hurt so he doesn't want to tell me any more. I also think it makes him relive the guilt and shame.<P>tmdm - I think you hit it on the head: I did tell H it was his willingness to be open and truthful that was important to me and to our marriage.He says I believe recovery hinges on honest answers to my questions. He says recovery has nothing to do with answers to my questions...But the "movies" really do suck. I've already got a couple vivid pictures I have to live with forever and I don't want anymore.<P>chick's bren - I think I should get him the book. I am not aware that he has read anything about surviving an affair. It seems he just doesn't get it yet, or at least is not able to see things from the perspective of the betrayed.<P>MJING - I know what you mean about the "movies". Ow works with H and they spent their weekends and evenings together there. I haven't been in his office for over a <BR>year but I have to drive by every day. Ow is still there.<P> Simone<P> <P>

Simone,<P>I, too, needed to know. My H told me bits and pieces, but there were still gaps. I ended up talking to the OW, who willingly filled in all the blanks. <P>I know that some of what she said was exaggerated, or twisted to serve her purpose of causing pain, or driving me away, but it did help in putting it all in context. What I found out was that his affair was all a fantasy, all based on lies. But I also found out somethings that I am still wrestling with, namely, that he told the OW that our D was an accident, a mistake! I confronted him about this, but he said she was wrong, and that she had no right coming to my home to tell me this. But I think "where did she even get that idea, unless he led her to believe it in some way".<P>Knowing the truth, knowing the lies told, the locations, the actions, even the emotions can cause untold pain, anger, even feelings of jealousy. But knowing it all can bring a sense of owning it, knowing it, and of course, a sense of security in that nothing has been missed therefore there won't be any little surprises instore for your future.<P>I also interpret the MB principle of complete honesty as requiring the knowledge. To paraphrase: "how can you overcome the obstacles if they remain invisible?"<P>All the best,<P>------------------<BR><B> <I> Black Heart </B> </I>

Simone: This all sounds so familiar to me. I wanted to know everything too. My H became so angry and could not understand my need for details. It was like pulling teeth to get things out. He erupted and left the house in the middle of our conversation. But a few weeks later things came out late at night as we lay in bed talking - little by little and I am glad they did. It was not as bad as I was imagined. I still do not know everything. But I know enough to be able to close that chapter and move on. Maybe that is all I need to know for now or maybe forever. Hope it all works out for you! Keep the faith! Joni

Black Heart - How was it that you came to talk to the ow? Did you know her? Just call her or what? Its something I've thought about doing for a long time.<BR>Ouch - I can't believe the ow was so cruel as to tell you your D was a mistake! I find it hard to believe a father who loves his child would say that - for what purpose? I'd bet the ow said it to hurt you (as if she didn't cause enough pain)<BR>Speaking of kids, one of the questions I asked today was whether he let the ow cozy up to our daughter - he told me once how good she was with children. The thought of her with my daughter is almost worse than the images I have of her with my husband.<BR>I guess I want it both ways - I want to get a handle on just what this affair really was but I don't want to hear anything hurtful or have new "pictures" of them to dwell on. I suspect I won't get much as H still believes "some secrets are good" - his words. Sigh...<BR> Simone

If your H were talking, what would he say he meant about "no good whatsoever came from his disclosures so far."<P>Under what circumstances did he give you the information and what happened after he gave it to you?<P>Have you in anyway proved his case? <P>It is certainly your decision, but some of your questions are either subjective or will not be of any use in recovery (other than if you really are dwelling on something and need to put it to rest) He may have felt one way in the past, a different way now and may think that honesty will only hurt when there is no basis of truth in the emotion now. <P>Could it help if you rethought and sifted through your questions, deleted or added, then after each one put either a reason you want to know and/or what you want the truthful answer to accomplish. Maybe that would clarify your motives for both of you.<P>Best of luck.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Simone --<P>Be careful about confronting the OW. Read some of the other threads posted on this site.<P>I confronted the OM. It gave me satisfaction like a ton of bricks being lifted off my shoulders -- for about 30 seconds. Then the reality of the whole thing hits. It trully believe that had I known about the forum -- not just the homepage -- prior to confronting him, I would be in much better shape. Now I have to overcome that episode as part of my recovery with my wife. It also help pit her "friends" against me since they felt I was "out of line".<P>-- keystone

Faith Hope Love - If H were talking and said "no good has come from his disclosures so far" I think he would say talking about it brings him back to a bad and painful time and any information he has given me has caused me pain. Also, because I know he works with the ow I get upset when they are together. I have asked that business contact be minimized and that makes things more difficult for him at work. H believes knowing about the affair gets in the way of working on our marriage.<BR>You asked under what circumstances he gave me the information, and then what happened.<BR>In January he said he was divorcing me. We went to counseling, at first only so he could explain with a therapist present why our marriage was dead and had no hope. He denied there was anyone else until a therapy session in March. He then said there have been other women, the last relationship ended "recently"; they were "real close"; she was his "oasis". At first I was stunned. Didn't say anything until that night. I cried - asked what kind of woman would do that to a family; what kind of woman would hurt a child etc. I wanted to know who she was. He wouldn't tell. I wanted to know what kind of relationship it was. He said it was all "just talk". I did some sleuthing and thinking and figured out who she was. I didn't say anything though until May when I demanded he explain what his affair was in more detail and who the op was. He confirmed it was her; said it began in March 1998 and ended the end of Feb. 1999. There were four occasions of kissing, all of which occured after he said he was leaving me. A few weeks later I had more questions because he went away to a conference with her. He then said they were in his hotel room together, but denied sex.<BR>A couple months later in therapy he said the affair was only 5 or 6 months. A couple weeks ago he said it was only a couple of months. Last night he said I was a stupid moron and said he never even had an affair - that I am the one who said he had an affair.(wish I had a therapist like he does who can make me believe none of this ever occurred)<BR>He said that I asked the questions yesterday was a tragedy - a tragedy that will destroy our marriage. He said "you'll get the answers you crave and they will destroy you"<BR>Therapists always say "analyze the resistance". To me the resistance implies the answers are devestating.<BR>You make a good point about questions pertaining to his feelings in the past (eg were you in love; did you tell her you loved her) - those answers will only crush me and probably don't pertain to current emotions.<BR>I do want to know what he thinks about her now - I am hoping there will be something negative.<BR>I like your suggestion to pare down the list of questions, focus on the most important ones and articulate the reason I need to know. It may be too late, but I will give it a shot. Thanks FHL.<P>Keystone - thanks for the warning about confrontation. Its something I've thought about for a long time and I am aware of the dangers. What i want to accomplish is to let her know the damage she has done to my family and child and to get some information about her future plans - is she going to be a part of our lives forever or does she have the moral fiber to know the right thing to do is to find a new job. What did you mean when you said after the confrontation "the reality of the whole thing hits?<P> Simone

Simone --<P>RE: "Reality of the whole thing hits"<P>I meant the magnitude of the problems, the levels of deception, anger, frustration -- they all seemed to increase after I confronted the OM. Although I knew of the MB website, I didn't see forum until after confronting the OM. Had I known about the forum, maybe somebody would have explained what a major LB confronting the OP is.<P>The other "reality" that hit was my confrontation probably increased the distance my W and I need to travel to rebuild, helped create "sides" where her friends have supported her against me, etc. I'm the one who has come off as irrational, out-of-control, rude, and out-of-line. Yet, I'm not the one having the affair -- SHE IS!<BR>Yet, my behavior probably supported her perspective that the OP was right for her, not me.<P>I don't remember your situation. Does the OW have a H? Maybe that's who to confront. See if that person is experincing similar thoughts about their marriage. Also, check out Zip. He confronted both the OP and the OP's spouse. As I remember, the key to rebuilding for him came after talking with the OP's spouse. Ironic allies, I guess. It might give you some more thought and less emotion -- important elements at this time in your decision making.<P>--keystone

One last thing, Simone...<P>Rhetorical question (and then again, maybe not): Do you think she really cares about what the affair has do to you and your children?<P>My answer: She's selfish and only cares about herself and her needs. Everything else becomes secondary. "Pointing it out" may no provide any constructive moves and may only further frustrate you.<P>Good luck<P>--keystone