In a very angry mmoment, (after I confronted the OW via e-mail about the nasty email from her to H that I intercepted, and after numerous e-mails from her to ME, not H, 'wondering how we were doing', worried about my child, our furnace, etc...), I e-mailed her his post....with a good-bye from me at the end....this is what she e-mailed me back...<P>............................................<P>Like I said from the beginning, he did say he loved you, but he didn't think<BR>you loved him. <P>He told me alot about himself, only a bit about you, he gave me the<BR>definite impression that things would not work out, and he even suggested<BR>that he should spend some time alone if it didn't, that he hadn't been alone<BR>for more than 3 weeks since he was a teenager. That was at the beginning...<BR>maybe my mind absorbed what I wanted to hear, and I wasn't being the usual<BR>pragmatic person that I am, and maybe I wanted and needed to believe. I<BR>know I wanted to have him and take care of him and love him. <P>We did have a great time together, and about the sex.. well I swore I wouldn't tell you<BR>this, but now I guess it's my time for thereapy. I felt, and this is the truth, almost too much to unveil, but I felt we connected emotionally, spiritually and physically all at the same time. That's why it worked.<BR>That's why this is so hard for me. I remember telling him that he was a man<BR>of few words, but that I could feel what he needed to say when we made<BR>love. He agreed. (I'm sorry) That really doesn't change anything about the<BR>way he feels about you, only that he had both of us, (not on the same level,<BR>don't get me wrong) and that maybe that's exactly what he needed to realize<BR>what he really wanted. I always said things happen for a reason. I know<BR>that he needs you, loves you, but what I don't understand is that he needed<BR>this (me?) too. And you know what? I have feelings, emotions, temper<BR>tantrums, I live and breath and I hurt, I cry, I'm without him now and I<BR>feel like a piece of meat, a rancid one at that. I just don't understand<BR>men, especially him, with all he has said, then why did he do it? And<BR>telling you was to appease his guilt, don't question that, he even admits<BR>it. Do they all think with their dicks? Is that why women are from Venus<BR>and men are from Mars? I was also pretty convenient when he needed to<BR>borrow tools, or when I kept handing him client after client. (Not that I<BR>think that was his motivation), but it certainly makes me feel like crap. He<BR>is also a very intelligent person, he knew what I was feeling, and he didn't<BR>have the guts to say, "I want this to be over, I want to be with my wife, I want to make it work". <P>I was always left feeling<BR>confused. Maybe because he was and I was too. <P>I've had an affair with a<BR>single guy, no attachments, who is at least straight with me.. It's been on<BR>and off for 2 1/2 years, but I have no doubts about where I stand with him,<BR>and we can enjoy eachother without guilt. <P>I think your H keeps reiterating<BR>this slander/lie thing because he can't really face the honest facts. It's<BR>too much for him to recount.. He said to me one day, "Why do I always end up<BR>hurting the people in my life that I care about the most". You know him<BR>much better than I do, does that sound like him? I know the answer... He<BR>is really afraid of losing you, I don't think he would be a very good<BR>survivor alone, and besides, you've always been there for him, he<BR>understands what that represents. The whole time he talked about himself,<BR>his problems, his past, it was like I thought he was divulging himself to me<BR>because he needed to know if I could or would accept him, unconditionally,<BR>like you do. Is that completely in left field? Or do you understand where<BR>I'm coming from. This summer was very hard for me, not because of your H, but<BR>because my mom was very sick and I couldn't handle my business, I had to<BR>fire someone, and spent three months trying to get my head together, trying<BR>to figure out what we are really here for. But my motto was, you only live<BR>once, so LIVE! Which I did. The fact that I might have been vunerable<BR>doesn't seem to have entered his mind. Now I'm close to TKO! He does write<BR>a lovely story though.. Maybe he should go back to writing .. (Sorry, I'm<BR>venting) <BR>It might take some time, but things will work out with you two, this was a<BR>necessary evil to put communication and growth back into your relationship. <BR>I would have given him everything I could think of and he knew that even if<BR>I didn't tell him, he's much to intelligent to pretend that he wasn't aware.<BR>The details are not really important, besides, I think I've given you many. <P>I do want to know something though, has this happened before since you've<BR>been with him? One thing I know is that women are probably the most<BR>important people in his life, especially nurturing, motherly figures,<BR>strong, independant and assertive women... <P>I have to go now, the sooner this is really over, the closer I will come to<BR>being OK again. I've enjoyed talking with you. <P>............................................<P>She started this entanglement by regaling him with stories of how affairs, the no-string, guilt-free, enjoyment of another human, could be beneficial, how sometimes, you just have to live.....H says that he was attracted to her attitude...that she was always upbeat and supportive of him at a time when I was dark and morose...which is true.....he says he saw in her personality traits and a comfortability with her sexuality that he wished I had....he said it boils down to having a fling with someone he wished was me.....that he wished I could be in her place...it was also a very wierd "affair", in that they would go days and weeks throughout the 3 months with no contact....H is a handyman, and if he was not scheduled to do any work at her home or business, then he was not there.....he says the guilt and shame was immediate, that he even brought a friend with him sometimes, just so that he could get the work done and get out of there without having it get sexual.....that when he would start a small job for her (bookshelves etc..), the flirting would start, touching, kissing, it would start with talking, a great "work relationship" with fun conversations is how H put it...she would get in and help him with the projects...then, by the 3rd or 4th day, he says the sexual tension would break, and they would be in bed....theres so many bizarre facts to this story, I fear I would need 1000 posts to get it all out....for example, when I was on a 3 wk trip with our child, in august, he says that he did not see her often, stayed home, watched porn, lied to her on the phone, said our roomate was here and she could not come over, or that he could not leave....why? none of it makes sense to me....he is having an 'affair', but avioding her? he also says that after the sex, it would turn platonic again, until the next sexual tension...there were even times where they worked alone and nothing happened....what kind of affair is this? I'm struggling for a form of understanding... sorry if this is wierd and disjointed..

That OW is very munipulative. She is NOT your friend. She is demented. She wants to create her own reality. If she truly wanted to "love" your husband, she would have done what was right for him, and stayed away.<P>Block her address. Don't communicate with her one bit. It makes her feel good to communicate with you. He needs to cut off ALL contact with her or her memory.<P>I'm sorry I am sounding so rude - I'm not trying to. What I want to do is send her a virus through the email....... But revenge wouldn't do anything, would it.<P>You and your husband need to move PAST what their relationship WAS, and need to move into building what your relationship WILL BE. Support him through the withdrawal, and keep up your plan A. It is working.<P>And don't ever contact that nut woman again.<P>TNT

You mentioned how he avoided OW when he could have been with her and then when he can't so easily access her he didn't... This boils down to the "Conquer" theory I have with my H... I believe that when one of us is available to him, He has security there, so he runs off trying to secure the other side.. H is driving himself insane! But this trait is weird!! So Im staying aloof, and she's chasing-offering-pleading and H is pursueing me... I think some of these men are just cavemen in suits... or coveralls, whichever the case may be...<P>my 2c, cozy

I have to agree, she is NOT your friend, no matter how hard she tries to portray that she is on your side. She would run to your H is a hot second if you decided to leave him. She maybe trying to get on to your good side that so you could feel sorry for her and maybe have some sort of sick friendship and that way she is still connected to your H! Finding out little things about him and you just to keep her fantasy alive! End it emails!

Soulloss--<P>I responded to your other thread that you should send a goodbye/no-contact e-mail to OW (from the both of you), and after that delete ALL replies from her, sight unseen.<P>Delete them from now on. If you continue to e-mail back and forth, you expend precious energy in flaming the anger and hurt fires, instead of working on your marriage positively!!<P>Repeat: NO-CONTACT. <P>

Your H affair sounds exactly the same as my H affair. Weird. I left - but he's still not completely with her. You'd think he'd be there like a shot !!<P>However, at least I don't have to deal with communication with the OW. I agree whole heartedly with everyone else. For your own sanity, and to stop more questions from raising their ugly heads, and to enable you and your H to rebuild your marriage there needs to be NO communication betw. you and OW. I agree she is sick - what OW in their right mind would want to communicate with the W unless it is for their own mean, selfish ends. IE, she wants more info on your H, she wants to know how things are going betw. you both, she wants to know how your recovery is etc etc. Don't give her anything. <BR>I have no experience at all where recovery is concerned - my H is still 1000 kms away in the same city and workplace as OW, but I hope I get the chance to find out. And if I do, I just want to be able to focus on rebuilding our marriage, and my H, and not have to deal with anything else but what happened, how we can fix it, and how we can make sure it never happens again.<BR>The OW maintaining contact with you would not allow you to do this. She will keep reminding you of what you are trying to get passed. Don't let her do that to you and your H.<P>I hope all works out for you, I'm thinking of you<P>Jo

The truth is somewhere between what the OW is saying and what your H is saying. You are so focused on what your H said happend and what she said happened. They both saw it from two different places. Both might be right in their own way and believe they are telling the truth. The others are right that she still wants your H back. I think she is in a lot of pain. But, that is not your problem. Your marriage is your problem. I would end all contact with her. Let everyone heal as best they can on their own.<P>Del

This was the phrase that jumped out at me.<P>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++<BR>It might take some time, but things will work out with you two, this was a necessary evil to put communication and growth back into your relationship. <BR>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++<P>Why do so many OW feel they have to either take credit for the marriage ending, or if it doesn't, then take credit for the marriage working.<BR>

A lot of people do say that they would not want the pre-affair relationship back. I don't think the OW deserves the credit if the marriage survives. I think the couple who made it survive deserve the credit. But I think OW say this as a way to help them deal with the pain of usually losing their lover. Even if they deserved it, they are still in pain. It's kind of like the way betrayed spouses blame the OW as a way to deal with not being so angry with their H. In the big picture, it really doesn't matter. If it helps this OW deal with her pain that her own stupidity and this mans thoughtlessness and lies caused her, so what. The couple is together and what the OW now things or doesn't think doesn't matter.<P>Del

And how do you get to the point where it doesn't matter. I realize it doesn't matter to my future, and I believe it no longer matter to my H, but there is a woman out there taking credit for your happiness by having an affair with your H. What level of strength does it take to be able to say "it doesn't matter" I would like to know how much stronger I have to become.<P>The OW in our situation actually told me that she felt she was responsible for our current happiness. I know that doesn't make it true, just extremely frustrating.

Well, I don't know how you do it. I've never had to do it. But, I sure can't see how going around resenting what some woman who neither you and your H is ever going to talk to again is going to help anything. You are not going to change what she thinks by doing that. You are only going to hurt yourself and your marriage. The bottom line is you will never really have any idea of what went on between them. No spouse ever can. You weren't there. And each is going to think something different about what did go on. The OW might really actually believe this. Your H might also have told her this as a way of letting her down easy. He might believe it. If you have decided to stay with your H, you have got to move on at some point because you can't change the past. You can't change how people thing. Have you read Michele's Change Your Live in 30 days? This book helped me so much when I was struggling to get over the affair. She says that if you keep thinking about the past, you are really stuck because that is the one thing you absolutely can never ever change. And you can't. You can change the future. Think about it. Does it really matter what this woman thinks? She isn't in your life any more.

Please see the post "this is what my husband posted elsewhere", I posted a full thank you to you all with an explanation of when and how contact ended, there but it was intended as the thank you for this one !!! LOL...my brain is on vacation and I wish it would take my body with it!!!

oops, wrong post....

Please Please Please....NO FURTHER CONTACT with this OW. It won't help you and it won't help in your recovery to keep her in your lives. Besides, who knows if she is telling the truth? The fact that she became involved with someone who is married, shows that she is not trust-worthy. Please NO CONTACT.....<P>I wrote a Post, "OW trying to weasel her way back in...." In my Post, I showed 2 e-mail letters, one my husband wrote and one that I wrote to OW. I guess you can call them "closure" letters. Maybe you should write her a closure letter so that there will be no further contact. Good luck with this...