Hi Deb-<P>Wow, I guess I thought I was being selfish because I feel unhappy, even though he hasn't seen her in some time. And because I was tired of being the one who always does things and always worries. Like you said< "When is it his turn to worry that I might leave him?" I don't think it seriously ever occurs to him that I might leave.<P>Like you I think of leaving. My son just went to college yesterday , so the only child still home is his daughter. It would hurt so much to leave, but I don't think it is worse than staying. I have been thinking about leaving often this week.<P>He is doing odd things and now I am back to watching like a hawk. It wouldn't take much to send me out the door. I would pack and go. Let him worry about bills, and kids and where I am. The really sad thing is is that I am not sure he would care where I was or with whom. If I thought he would care I would stay forever.<P>Even now, after getting home around 8pm he is at a neighbors drinking a few beers. I wanted to see him. Until next Thursaday we have no Kids for the first time in our marriage. One would think some nice quality alone time. No he is down the street with some old has been. (Thank God he is male.)<P>Well, now I vented. Sorry. Deb extra prayers for you and Bozo too. God bless

Deb, I'm sorry you are hurting so bad right now. Having suffered through multiple affairs, I think I know a little how you feel. I got so fed up with my husband's "I apologized, now get over it" attitude that I finally threw a "tantrum". I probably broke every rule out there for rebuilding our marriage. I told him exactly what I thought of what he had done, how much he had hurt me and how I had no intention of "getting over it". I then told him he could do whatever the h#ll he wanted because I was tired of worrying about whether or not he was happy with me. I told him he could sleep with any one he wanted and in a few years I would send the kids to his funeral. After I was done I was very ashamed of the way I acted but guess what...it got his attention! He was finally willing to discuss my feelings and I got the first sincere apology! I have since gotten a few more, plus the "I can't believe you didn't leave me" and "I consider myself very lucky to still have you"!<BR>This has been a long winded way of saying maybe it's time to stomp your feet and throw a tantrum! What could it hurt?

Deb,<BR>I cant believe it. I have not been reading or writing a lot lately because I have been feeling the same way. I do not want to go through this again and told him so. I told him to leave and told him I found him a place to live. I also fixed a budget up for us so both could live apart. I told him I know I can get on without him. Yes I love him but I need more from him than what I am getting. He considers himself a good h because he helps around the house, works and hands me the paycheck, is a good dad, and if I ask him to get me a coke he will. But I need the romance, letters, telling me how come he loves me, and the reason I need more is because of his mistake I have forgotten all the good and only remeber the bad. It is his turn to work for me. It is his turn to think, read, find out how to make a marriage last and remain exciting. Well he is still here and he is trying a little harder. Instead of going fishing he took me out and spent a day with me. Told me some of the things he has been planning to do for me when he can afford to, he still needs some work but maybe he will get it before he gets my boot ....laughing....I know how you feel and Bozo is going to have to work now inorder to keep you. It is worse when you are sick or tired. I think it is fine for the h to work. They are the ones who messed up. We did our best to keep them happy and the messed up anyways so now they can do their best to keep us happy and pray we dont make the same mistake.....<BR>love ya deb....<P>------------------<BR>INLOVE.....<BR>LOVE HAPPY ENDINGS HOPING WE ALL HAVE ONE...<P>

Deb,<P>Sorry you are so blue. I know jus where you are at. I, too, have gone through multiple affairs. I am sick of it as well. Tony like your bozo is just saying get over it. Stop talking about it is in the past.<P><BR>Yeah easy for them to say. They may have gotten over it. They were in the know the entire time they were lying, cheating, and breaking our hearts and trust. But hey we are suppose to just get over it.<P>Deb not sure this is for you but I have gone to tough love. I told Tony that I do not love him anymore. I mean it too. I told him he better work like a dog in this relationship or he can go. I am worth so much more than being treated like a third class citizen in a second class world.<P>Maybe what you need to write up all your needs and how he is suppose to fix them. In a letter tell him exactly what you think and feel. Let everything out. Tony has till the end of August to really show some major signs of improvement. I am not sure he is there yet. <P>Deb I am not sure I am the best person to give advice. I love this site and the ideas it puts out there but I have changed them a bit. I have added in the mix tough love. I have drawn the line in the sand and he now has to make it work or leave. He knows I can make it on my own without him. <P>(((((((((DEB))))))))))<P>I am so sorry you have to go through this. You are such a wonderful person!

hi deb, how are you this morning? Hopefully feeling better about things every day.<BR>It is hard when you have previously forgiven and trusted, only to have the same thing happen again. Maybe we wonder what we are setting ourselves up for? <BR>One way I have dealt with this issue is to choose to love and choose to be happy again. Yes, they are choices we make for ourselves. It is so much easier to fall into the depression and bad mood days, but we need to remain strong and make the choice to live our lives to the fullest. How can I feel fulfilled if I am wallowing in depsair because my h chose to be a d***? <BR>Cannot be done. So, make the choice to feel good about learning to live and love again. At first it is hard, but everyday it gets easier, becomes natural. You will feel the changes in yourself, but may take some time.<BR>I do not believe that one has to forgive in order to be happy. I feel good about things, but still have not forgiven my h for all his affairs. Maybe I never will? Working on it!!<BR>My h loves me, is with me, and is working very hard to keep the marriage together. This is definitely what he needs to do! Like Paha says, tough love has a place along with mb principles. YOu h is working to rebuild your marriage also. Open your heart and let him in, let him try to help you heal deb. Choose to be happy, choose to feel fulfilled!!

Deb<BR>Here I have been so worried about you and when you really need help i'm not here! <BR>cl is right - we have to choose to be happy. It's very overwhelming.<BR>I have learned some very valuable things from the "Choosing to Forgive Workbook". The first step deals with what you and I seem to be going through. <BR>It explains that in order to make the choice to forgive and be happy we must first give ourselves permission to feel this way. You want Bozo to acknowledge your pain. I want Mr. Dense to acknowledge mine. First we have to acknowledge our own right to feel this way. Then and only then will we be able to choose whether we want to stay in the pain or not. You have a right to feel this way. The harder you fight it the harder the fight is!<BR>Feel it. It is valid and no one can tell you what to feel. Your feelings are directly connected to your morals. If you are angry or hurt because what has been done goes against your morals, it is a statement of your morality. Be proud of that. You can forgive Bozo and still be hurt by what he did.<BR>This is not supposed to be a lecture. What I'm saying is you need to accept that your feelings are valid. You have a choice to feel them as long as you want. Once you accept that you have control over the situation. It is okay to have these feelings. You are human. You have been hurt.<BR>You need to validate these feelings for yourself!!! They are part of your moral makeup and you should be proud of those morals. Then once you have accepted the feelings you can go on to make the choice of what you want to do with them. Then they are under your control instead of you being under theirs.<BR>Give yourself permission to feel what you need to.<BR>

ok I know you guys are tired of my whining, he** I'm tired of my whining.<BR>Being me sucks, what more can I say. I'm afraid to trust, afraid to feel happiness, every time i do I get the wind knocked out of me. I am living in hermit mode at this point, it's just something I do, a way I get. This board is the only place I talk to anyone, and it probably will be for a few more days. I don't want to talk on the phone, I don't want to go anywhere, execpt maybe shopping. I just want to feel loved, by my h . Why do I always have to be second thrird or dead last with him, example, yesterday he bought a new modem for the computer, keep in mind he worked 60 hours this week, we had the tiff yesterday too, I know he's tired, but does he lay down and get some sleep ? NNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOO, he works on the computer all day,lays down for a little bit on the couch, not with me of course. Gets up eats some dinner. I tell him please don't sleep on the couch again tonight, (he usually sleeps in here in the lr at least once each weekend) we are already having problems, that will only make it worse. He says ok I won't" I go lay down , take my meds. At 5 am where is he, why he's sleeping on the couch of course. I wake him up, ask him to come get in the bed, he complys, I start sex between us, he goes along, after a fashion, when it's over we are both left frustrated and down. This is a BIG deal to me, in 21 years I can count on one hand the times when we haven't enjoyed being together that way. Like I said before I know its my fault things are the way they are, I expect too much, I need too much. I am tired of not having my needs met. Yes he has tried, he tried for a while, and I was happy with that to a point, but like always things have started going back to the "norm" which stinks on ice btw. Throwing a tantrum gets me nowhere, neither do tears. It looks like it comes down to a choice, am I willing to live the rest of my life this way, or do I leave and try to make it on my own, believe me neither sounds real good to me at this point. I guess I need to figure out how I really feel about him now. And how I feel about me. Well my coffee's getting cold, I don't dare drink it at the desk, I shorted out one keyboard already by sloshing coffee on it when it burned my fingers last week. I'll check in here later, please guys pray for me, I want to do the right thing and I know the right thing is to stay with him and work through this, but....... ya know ?<P>------------------<BR>Just call me - Deb<BR>------------------------<BR>The only day I can do anything about is today, yesterday is gone, tomorrow is not yet mine.<P>

ws,<BR> we are scaring me, we were posting at the same time again. <P>------------------<BR>Just call me - Deb<BR>------------------------<BR>The only day I can do anything about is today, yesterday is gone, tomorrow is not yet mine.<P>

Hi Deb - <P>How are you now, Deb?<P>Been thinking and praying for you. Wish I could take it all away for you!! <P>Have to figure out something, you can't keep going through this every week - you're getting to worn out!!<P>We'll help you, Deb!!! Whatever way you decide to try to handle it, we're here for you!!<P>Hugs and Srength,<P>Sheba

hi deb, <BR>okay, lecture time?? If i was there, I would shake you silly right now!<BR>Read the messages above again! Then think about them. Your choices are not to either live this way or to leave. Your choices are in your heart-they are to be happy and love, or to be miserable and stumble thru life! You are not a stumbler-you are a very vital very caring and strong person. Stumbling s not your style. Since that is where you are right now, you are uncomfortable and confused. Get back to where you feel good, make the choice deb. <BR>Okay, so the bozo needs a kick in the butt, but we all do sometimes!! He is just like the rest of us-up and down. Lost and found?<BR>When was the last time the two of you had fun together? When was the last time the two of you went somewhere, left reality and problems behind, and truly enjoyed each others company? <BR>(((hugs))) Deb, you are going to be fine. Let your heart felt desires be known to bozo, let him mmet your needs! Maybe he really does not understand what they are, even though you tell him.

Hey Deb -<P>We posted at the same time!!!<P>Glad though, because I got to see CL's reply!!!! She is absolutely right!!<P>You have to look within yourself and get some motivation!! Isn't one of the important things to have Recreational activities TOGETHER? Well, where's the recreation? Bozo's read all this right? He's gotta put it into practice too!!!!<P>Where is it that you live? Texas? Hmmm,<BR>maybe I should mosey on down there and motivate you both!!!! You'd like that - wouldn't you, Deb!!!!!!! LOL!!!<P>It's not like there's anything I need to stay here for that I'm having any success at accomplishing!! <P>Hugs, Strength and Love,<P>Sheba<P>Ho's your cyst? Any better or is the "luck" still building up?

deb, where is your e-mail address? will send you some wonderful motivators via e-mail!! Cannot post because of copyright.

I don't know if he's read all this or not, I don't think so. I'm doing the best I can right now, this is truely my best at this point, I have felt this way for the last month, but I am good at being "on" most of the time, you know, putting on a good front, joking laughing cutting up, well I have to be the real Deb for a while, she is very diffrent from thre public Deb, she's been hurt a lot, she isn't very strong at all, she is very very frightened, she feels like a small child crying out "please don't hurt me anymore I'll be good I promise I will" <BR> I know it's not pretty, or even sane, but it's me . Please don't be angry with me, I am doing a good enough job of that myself, <BR> Now I'm going to go hide before Sheba and cl find me, ladies I don't think Houston is ready for ya'll, but if you do come pick up WS and bring her too, maybe a few others. <P>------------------<BR>Just call me - Deb<BR>------------------------<BR>The only day I can do anything about is today, yesterday is gone, tomorrow is not yet mine.<P>

You make me laugh!!<P>Deb - we know that this is the "real" Deb and this is the one we all care about and love so much!!! There is no need to split yourself!! <P>We want to help the real Deb be happy!!<BR>And you know what, we will get there if you let us help you to start to practice some self improvement. We can tell you how and why till we're blue in the face but you have to believe and do!!!!!<P>Love ya and what do you mean you don't know if Bozo has read - Doesn't he know Dr Harley's material? Haven't you guys followed it at all?<P>Hugs,<P>Sheba

Hey deb, where is your e-mail address? Are you ignoring me again? Send it or WS, sheba and I will all show up in houston! That would be one scarey group, I'll tell ya. <BR>I still vote for a party at your house. You have the hot tub. Do you have a pool? I am not real close to houston, but am pretty close to an airport!

houston, eh? "it's not the [BOZO], it's the HUMIDITY"<BR>dang, woman, no one can feel good about ANYTHING in houston in august! I lived there 10 years, i know what i am talking about.<BR>Maybe that hurricane will cause a big ol' flood for you and stir things up a bit...<P>------------------<BR>for better or for worse, in sickness and in health, for richer or for poorer, till death do us part.<P><BR>

cl, I'm not ignoreing you, I went to lay down for a little while, I also discovered what PART of the problem is, pms, yes on top of this lovely depression, the heat and the bozo it's that time. I am just oh sooooooooo<BR>happy !!!!!!!!!<BR>the email is<BR>notagaintx@yahoo.com<BR>there now I'm going to go pout somemore.<P>------------------<BR>Just call me - Deb<BR>------------------------<BR>The only day I can do anything about is today, yesterday is gone, tomorrow is not yet mine.<P>

Hey CL -<P>I'm close to an airport also!!!<P>Only problem is I don't have money for a ticket!!! (sad smiley face)<P>I've got an idea!!! Do you think I could ship myself in one of those crates with some holes in it for $100.????<P>hmmmm?????

Deb, <BR>Hey, you have got to take care of you. You have done nothing wrong but love someone. You are special and if noone on this earth knows it God does. Please rest, watch happy movies, and pamper yourself. You are physically, mentally, and spiritually drained and it is ok to just be for a while. Dont try to figure things out, dont try to be happy just be for a while ....<BR>praying for u...<P>------------------<BR>INLOVE.....<BR>LOVE HAPPY ENDINGS HOPING WE ALL HAVE ONE...<P>

Deb<BR>How long do you think it would take me to hitch hike from Alberta to Texas?<BR>We went sight seeing in the mountains and I actually thought of sneaking out the back window of a bathroom and disappearing for a week or two.<BR>If you go back a bit you'll see my thread to cl on Losing the depression battle. Hmm! It seems to me I was being a hermit, didn't call anyone, just wanted my H to love me....<BR>I think cl kicked me out of that one too.<BR>I'm still a bit of a hermit but now every once in a while I just take off in the truck for who knows where. Remember when I went for a drink- coffee -movie - drink....drive?<BR>best thing I ever did. I was all alone. No one to pretend with. I could feel any way I wanted and it was OKAY!!!!<BR>Nobody is ticked off at you. We care very much because we've been there.<BR>Can you decide you are going to have fun with or without him? You can you know!!!!<BR>You have to like being with you. We like being with you even through the computer screen.<BR>cl's motivators are great. I'm making a book. I'm not very cooperative some days but she still puts up with me!