This is a follow up to some of my past posts in Truth or Lies. Married 7 years not been getting along last two or so years. EA with OM found out about it. Now in recovery and counseling. Had a session last night, which I think is our 7th or 8th joint session. Counsler asked my wife is she had talk to OM over the last couple of weeks and my wife said yes she did (news to me). <P>She said they talked and it felt good becasue she no longer viewed the connection there. She was happy that they could just be friends and not have that connection. Well I was glad she told me but also I was pissed because we agreed to a no contact policy. <P>The counsler told her that she was wrong to do this given that it was upseting to me. She agreed and was sorry that she hurt me by these calls. Good sign and in general it was a good session. She still minimizes her feelings for OM and says that it all goes back to how I treated her in the past.<P>This AM she calls me at work and we talk for a bit about why she can't get her feelings back. We talk more about what has happened in the past etc. We talk a little more about her feeling for OM. Then she drops the bomb and says that what is really bothering her is that the reason she became attracted to me in the past are the reasons that she does not like me now. <P>She says that she liked that I was a confidant person, successful and liked to joke around. She says now that self assurance bugs her and that when I joke around it bothers her. Says that much of this confidance from me is what made her not feel like an equal in the past and was used to put her down not make her feel like an equal.<P>OM is a little more reserved and is a stay at home mom (Mr. Mom) so much different. My wife started to get a connection with him by helping him through his marriage problems. Maybe that is the person she needs to be with. She is still confussed on why she can't get those feelings back. Comments and help please.

zip,<P>First -- don't be fooled by your wife saying that the "connection" is not there with the OM. She might even be fooling herself. But don't let her fool you. It's still there. It's WAY too soon for it to be gone yet. If it's gone, then why did she feel she had to talk to him, and why did she hide it from you? No, she's still very connected. One thing about withdrawal, you're gonna have to expect that she falls off the wagon every once in a while. I'm betting that she even thinks it's not really a bad thing since she has herself convinced that the "connection" isn't there anymore. Let her know (without love-busting, which is the hard part) that it hurts you extremely whenever she contacts him.<P>Second -- that thing about the reasons she was intially attracted to you now being the reasons she is <B>not</B> attracted to you is very normal. In the book "After the Affair" the author (can't remember her name, but I'm sure someone onlist knows) talks about this very thing. It's the fogginess of the affair talking. What was once self-confidence is now arrogance. What was once joking-around is now flippant. Etc. Nothing about you can compare favorably to the OM right now. She's still in withdrawal.<P>You have to work all the more dilligently to listen to her needs and try like heck to fulfill them without love-busting.<P>--andy

I would tell you to get the book "After the Affair" and take a good look at the chapter that explains why we hate the things we love the most about our spouses, it's very true! My H is very social and outgoing, mixes well at parties and I always admired this, until we started going to parties where he would disappear from my side for the whole evening. I would feel cheated because I did want to spend time with him but he was too busy being the social butterfly. Yes, you can dislike the very same characteristics that you like about a person, the idea is finding out why she dislikes them and approaching it from that way. Maybe there is something simular to that in her story as in mine. The way we solved this problem is that he finally got onto the fact that I didn't want him with me ALL the time, but to check and see if I was ok once in awhile. God Bless!<P>------------------<BR>Chick's <BR>Bren<P>You won't see things until your ready to not be blind!<P><BR>

She can't get her feelings back because she is still connected to the om -----DUH!!!!!!<P>I've read about the things that 1st attracted us becoming turn offs later in one of the many relationship books I've read in the past year and a half. Don't be discouraged. Maybe you can temper those qualities and discuss that in counselling. If she'll cut it entirely with om, I'd bet money that those characteristics won't seem nearly so aggravating! She is deluding herself. I hope you and your counsellor can get her to honor her agreement to stop all communications with om. You shouldn't have continue to compete with him.

Can you negotiate a deal whereby you will validate her concerns about those characteristics and really try to work on them so that she feels loved, cherished, and respected if she'll honor her promise to have no contact with om of any sort, kind, or description?

Thanks to all the quick feedback. It is great to get some different thoughts from everyone that is going through this.<P>Airheart - I have read that book After the Affair. It is a great book and maybe time to reread the book. The big problem IS THAT she can't see how the EA is affecting and has affeced our marriage. She is bummed because things are not getting better in her mind. Says that the feelings like this where way before the EA this is a two or three year issue. So how does someone finally realize that the EA does cloud the judgement? I have left books out that I have read etc. Even suggest that they might help her get over her hopelessness. Says that she does not need them now? It is like and drunk saying that booze is not the problem<P>Chicks - I will try to do more of that going forward. I have tried to be more attentive to her needs at parties asking her what she thinks making sure that she is included. Does not seem to work. Have read that book and it is very good. That one and Torn Asunder are both two of the best.<P>Wesse - I have tried to temper them as much as possible. But sooner or later it is hard to be just a mouse. Like I said to her today, maybe she needs to be the alpha in the relationship. We will see what happens with her contact to OM. No S$%$#% that she is still connected to OM. But when she is not willing to admit to that then you have a real issue.

Zip,<P>What airheart and the others are referring to in After the Affair is called the "flip-flop factor". What attracts you to a person, later becomes the thing you don't like about them. It is similar to a person's best asset also being the person's worst asset.<P>I agree that it is probably too soon for your W to feel the feeling again. I think through all of us experiencing these affairs is that we ALL set ourselves up with unrealistic expectations. To me, it doesn't matter if you are the betrayed or the brtrayer, we each form some set of expectations. Then, when things don't shake out exactly how WE think they should, or if they don't happen on OUR timetable, then we think in terms of failure.<P>I wonder if both you and your W have some unspoken expectations and timetables that you are each judging your relationship on. If so, and things aren't occuring exactly as you thought they should, then maybe you are EACH setting yourself up for failure.<P>I have sat on both sides of this infidelity fence. The one most single important thing I have learned is this:<P>WE often SABOTAGE ourselves and our own best efforts without even realizing we are doing it!!!<P>If you would both take a step back and really reflect on where you both are - and what you both want, you might find some conflicting or unrealistic expectations that are sabotaging both of your efforts.<P>Roll Me Away <BR>

Zip, your wife actually sounds alot like me in many ways, regarding my EA.<P>Maybe your wife was having those doubts and feelings before the EA, but I'm betting that before the EA she would've been willing to work on everything, if she came to you and discussed it. But with the OM clouding her thoughts, it seems to her that nothing can be worked out.<P>Affairs just muddy the waters all over. Ask her this : If she would have identified the problems prior to having met the OM, would it have made a difference? If she answers "YES" or "I never knew about them until I got to know OM", then either answer is an absolute confirmation that the EA screwed things up.<P>One other thing, when I was in the midst of my hopelessness I read those books, but they didn't mean anything to me. I think it's good for her to read them, but don't expect them to have any change in her depression/withdrawal. It's like RMA is saying, this all takes time, and especially it takes time for her to come out of her withdrawal and start taking steps forward. When she's feeling the way she is right now, she's really incapable of making any but the very slightest progress.<P>--andy

Zip --<P>Thanks for your post on my thread. Again, I'm sorry to see things have stalled.<P>Q: What ever happened to Mr. Mom's wife?<P>It seemed like you had an ally there. Is she also working to break the connection between her H and your W?<P>Re: the "flip-flop" concept. I've got to read up on that. Must be accurate for so many other posters to refer to it. I better be ready for this "stage" in recovery!<P>--keystone

Keystone,<P>OM's wife is still in the picture. We have not talked in a bit. Wife gets a rod when we talk which is kind of funny given her realionship with OM. Flip folp stuff is real wild. I would like to here from someone out there that has had a success story. Maybe what they need here is a success board so everyone can learn from how they went through it.