Hi Guys, <P>I really have got to carry an umbrella with me at all times. I have no idea where these brain storms come from.<P>I'm not trying to be a jerk here. Just an honest question to all of you. We are all in circumstances that we wish would have never have happened. If I did this. If you did that. If we could have communicated. We would still be together. I think you get the idea.<P>Not knowing the future or the outcome of our relationships, sometimes do you really think it's worth the wait for your S to come out of Fantasyland and want to work on the marriage?<P>I would like nothing more than to spend my lifetime with my dearest Valerie. I love her dearly. Just knowing that she had feelings and relations with someone else pulls my still beating heart out of my chest. <P>I will now play the role of a business man and look at things at the bottom line value. Waiting for Val could take an unknown amount of time for her to realize what is actually going on in her/our life and what is at stake in our marriage. If she ever does see the light of day then an added period for her to really want to work on our relationship. Seems to be to much of a risk. Long investment period with unknown return benefits.<P>Is this worth the time and effort? Did you ever stop and wonder if all the pain that we are experiencing is worth the results that we hope for. If you would meet someone tomorrow and things would click. What would you do? The slate would be clean, no resentment, not bad feelings. I'm not ready for another relationship at this point. What would you do? Wait possibly for something that may never happen?<P>Not trying to bring spirits down here. Just wondered what would take us to give up hope completely.<P>Just a topic for discussion. Right now Val has to tell me to my face that she feels not love for me and wants a divorce.<P>Wishing us all the Best.<P>Medic

Hi there,<P>I sure don't have the answer. Been wondering the same thing. My circumstance is a bit different though being I am already divorced, but wanted to reconcile with my ex. He says the only way that would happen is if God meant for us to be together, and he would have to turn his life over to Christ before I could take him back anyhow.<P>So how's that for a downer???!!! He seems to be enjoying his single life, so I don't see that happening, yet he tells me to continue to pray. Says if it was not meant that God will take away my desire for him, and if he does meet another woman and moves on, says he will let me know so I won't be sitting here hoping and waiting on him.<P>I am lonely as Hell here!!! Just crying all the time now. My kids are teen so they don't even want to spend time with mom. I have no close friends around and am about to lose my mind. I too could get a date, but then that would ruin possiblities with my ex.. So I am screwed over again!<P>If you come up with any suggestions let me know. Sorry I cant help you with any being I am probably in worse shape.<P>

I wonder about this myself most of the time. The thing I hate the most is being in limbo. You can't go backwards (of course) but at the same time I can't go forward until my H makes up his mind. That doesn't even sound right. Why does he (they) get to decide the fate of our relationships? Why does he get to have the high life and I'm here lonley and taking care of everything. A part of me just wants to say, to hell with all this **** and end it, just so I can move on with my life. But the other part of me loves him to death and can't see him not in my life. What's that phrase? It's a catch 22.

Hi Medic,<P>this post is exactly the way I am feeling today. I'm just about ready to give up, and I don;t WANT to care anymore.<BR>The reason I'm feeling like this today is because of a ph call to him today (I fell off the Plan B wagon!!!)<P>The baby has been sick for 2 days, vomited in the car on the way to hospital all over the car seat - and I didn't know how to take the damn cover off. I worked out most of it, but couldn't get the middle buckle off.<BR>I had to ring him to ask how to do it.<BR>The OW's mother answered the ph, OW's voice was in the background - nice little family gathering.!!<P>Here I am struggling with a sick baby and he's having a wonderful time.<BR>Where is the justice.<BR>I know I'm venting on your thread, sorry, but I think I have now lost all hope.<P>Jo

This is the way I feel. I have decide to go forward with out my H. I am not planning to get a divorce, but I have decided that I am not sitting at home. NOw I just have to figure how to do this. I am going forwad with my life. I know if H leaves the OW I would send him to his parent's house. I am not taking him back, just wait, we are going to have to do a lot of counseling befor I could even think about it. He would have to do a lot of work rebuilding this relationship before I could consider it. I am not giving up but I think I am being realistic. He has been gone almost four months and I haven't heard from him in three. If it is meant to be somewhere down the line then I think it will be but if not I don't want to wait around and put my life on hold forever on the chance he might wake up one day and come home. I can't handle the MIGHT, especially since he has given me no reason to have any hope at all. Yes I still love him and I always will but I can not live on mights and maybes. IF I met someone then I will think about a divorce, if he files then I will have no choice. I realize that technically I am still married and if I find someone to date they will know that also. I am not going out look for a relationship I am looking for friends and fun. I do not want to spend the rest of my life a lone and bitter. I am probably older then a lot of you and I think that has a lot to do with how I feel. As much as I want to wait for him I don't have a lot of time. But I am still young enough that I want to enjoy life. I think that is the decision we all have to make how long do we want to wait and do we want the world to pass us by. Right now I don't foresee anything happening very soon, but I will be ready when it happens no matter which way it happens( He comes back or someone new) This is what I have figured out for myself.<P>------------------<BR>di<P>

Very good question, Medic. Like everyone else here who has responded, being in the state of limbo is shear torture. Sometimes, I think this is worse than if they had just died. At least with that situation, you have no choice but to grieve, then move on & rebuild your life.<P>I wonder the same thing you do. My H has so many unresolved personal issues that will need to be addressed, before we can even get to the point of rebuilding our marriage. How long will that take? Months, years, a lifetime? Is it even possible for him to get past some of his lifelong problems? Is his psyche permanently damaged, & I just tolerated, & overlooked it all these years? These are all questions that continue to haunt me. <P>One part of me really wants to cut my losses, & move on but another part keeps repeating "in sickness & in health". My conscience just won't allow me to give up on him knowing that he is mentally unstable. <P>I was once told by a boss that I am too nice. I guess he was right.

Sidney I know what you mean bout sickness and health. I agree they are sick. I think the step I am taking is easier for me because he has cut me off completely. If ther was one itsy bitsy tiny response from him, I would change my mind in a split second. But to me it is like he has died. Anyway the aliens came and took him away or something it is like he has disappeared off the face of the earth as far as his family and I are concerned. I know you said sometime you think it would be easier if you didn't see your H. and you are right. If I was still seeing H I would work so hard for our marriage. But when you are left with nothing but memories and empty time you get to a point of moving on to file that emptiness. I also know that I have shut the door well he did that but I haven't locked it and I probably won't because there is always hope that he will come back. I jus know for my own state of mind We will have to work all this out before we can truly be together. See I keep talking like it will happen. BUt there is a big part of me the realist in me my D says I am a pessimist that there is a good possiblility that he might not wake up or if he doesn't he won't be able to come back to me. I have to deal with this and I think it is time for me to start. <P>------------------<BR>di<P>

Hey, I did just that !!! NO WAITING<P>I have been married twice now. My first marriage ended over infidelity. I worked on rebuilding as best I could with a terrible therapist and an H in what I now know was withdrawal. I did this for over 9 months and it was a painful he!!.<P>When it happened AGAIN with H#2 I thought I'd go nuts!! My H#2 was the biggest, meanest [censored] to me and did all the classic, common infidel crap you see on this board. When I found this MB site I thought I'd found the fix. Then I read several of the books suggested here, read the horrid pain that people were suffering and I LEFT.<BR>I have NEVER, NEVER looked back. I wasted time/life attempting to repair marriage #1 and there is NO satisfaction in looking back and saying "I really tried", none. So good bye sucker to H#2 !!!<P>My way may not be the right way ... just mine, based on life experience. What do I want from a man, from a marriage? I would NEVER want to be with either of those "men" now.<P>I am in a new relationship because I made up my mind that I could do it. He has taken a bunch of screwed up crap from me about a pre-nup, but when I had him read this site he understood why I am so strident about infidelity.<P>If you want to wait for an infidel in Plan A it's doing, at the very least, something. Plan B, more something. I doubt many people would do it twice though. I lived and I learned the wait state is BS for me when there are/is a man who deserves to be loved by me.<P>BTW, my infidel, fat,pig, ex-husband #2 now has lots to talk to me about. Too little, too late. I pushed that divorce through in 90 days. I did not want to end 1999 married for tax purposes but, that's not going to happen as I am getting married again 12/24. <P>It IS possible to move on. Time does heal this wound.

Well this is the question that has been on my mind for awhile,how long before enough is enough? I guess it's different for everyone, the trick is to figure it out before you end up too hurt, too angry. I think it's great for those who can work it out, but I don't know if I've got it in me.

Interesting question that I think about constantly. A few thoughts.<P>First, the people who choose to wait for a cheating spouse to change his mind are a distinct minority. The reason there are some here at the forum is because this position is not generally supported in "the real world". I personally have no support outside of the cyberworld for Plan A while my husband continues his affair. I would bet that over 90% of the time when a spouse is confronted with an infidel who refuses to stop, the spouse immediately files for divorce.<P>With that as my back drop, I make the point that WE WAIT BY CHOICE. We are not at the control and mercy of the betrayer. We do have a choice. We can divorce them and give up on the marriage if they divorce us. We are choosing not to do that and have the power to change our minds at any point.<P>As to whether we would be better off moving on, that is an individual decision each of us has to make. There are many factors at play. Certainly, the presence of children, especially young ones, is a major factor in my case. So is continuing love for the infidel. Another large one is an objective assessment about just how much changing the infidel has to do, and whether he's even capable of it if he tried. Over time, I put less and less emphasis on the vows, which have already been destroyed by the infidel, and I think religious doctrine supports that view.<P>Interestingly, I read a recent article on recovery from infidelity. It said the single biggest factor affecting the likelihood of successful recovery is the degree to which the infidel can understand and show compassion for the betrayed's pain. Obviously, the way the infidel reacts is a major factor.<P>I do agree, however, with the assessment that in many ways it would be easier to start over. But being easier has very little bearing on what is right. It was easier for the infidel to run off and have an affair than to do the hard work of looking at himself and fixing the marriage. I think the other factors have to be considered.

Great thread!<P>I have asked the same question here before. <P>I found out about my H affair in July. I told him we could fix the marriage. Initially he just wanted a divorce, but when he saw my forgiveness in action he startd to think about coming back to the marriage. However, over the last few months there were times I told him I couldn't do this anymore. His guilt led him to tell me the relationship was over from his point of view. Since he didn't want a lawyer it was up to me to start the process. Then he decided maybe he could come home - he was just about there when I issued an ultimatum that some of you know about. That pushed him towards her. <P>The point - which could have been made without all the junk above - is that each of us has different tolerance levels. If I knew for sure he would come home within the next year or maybe even more I'd wait, but only because I have 18 month old. I do believe that you can go on with your life without divorce, but we all get to the point where enough is enough. I don't hink I would have put up with what I have if I had been childless. <P>My breaking point was H taking OW home for holiday when his mind was not made up and it was against his parents wishes. Some say what is the big deal. Well, it was the selfish act in and of itself. My H (I love him dearly) has always been a self-centered man, but the one time he should have considered everyone's feelings but his own, he chose not too. So if he made it all the way to the drive way and had a change of heart that it was indeed wrong to take OW to parents house. I still wouldn't take him back. I don't want a selfish man to be the leading role model in my son's life. That may sound selfish, but my son deserves better. I also deserve better - someone who can show love, someone who can actually give. <P>Had he come home last week I would have taken him my arms and held him forever. I would put up with the selfishness forever. I had made that decision - <P>Once we are married, it becomes a choice day after day to reamin true to all involved. Unfortunately some aren't up to the challenge. <P>I hope well all find someone to share their lives with us that will make the choice. <P><BR>SORRY - I can just go on and on!<BR><P>------------------<BR>d is for dog<BR>h is for hope<BR>j is for joy, pure joy!<P>

Interesting question.<P>The quick answer for me is that when I said "I do" I meant through sickness and through health for better and for worse. I look at this past year or so as the "sickness" and the "worse" part of my marriage to date. <P>I have grieved over the loss of what we once had together. I have come to know my self very well. I have found the love I am capable of giving and the amount of pain I can endure. <P>It would be easy to run. It would be easy to quit. I'd be lieing if I said I didn't think about it often. <P>I don't think you can play the role of a business man when you are talking about marriage. It's more than that. If marriages were businesses there would be even more divorces than there are now. Marriages are commitments - life long. For me, there is just too much history between us to not keep trying. There are the lives of our kids to consider. When you look at starting fresh, isn't that journey with someone else just as unknown - even more so?<P>I don't know how long it would be for me to say enough is enough, but I think if I ever got there I certainly wouldn't see myself with anyone else. I just can't picture holding any other woman in my arms. <P>Until then, I'm doing my best to cherish my wife every day that God gives her to me. <P>SHA

Medic - I swear, you're thinking as much as Sheba these days!!<P>That's a good question, though, and a hard one.<P>My answer - for me. If it works out and we build a wonderful marriage, absolutely worth the wait.<P>If it doesn't, I've shown myself what I can do, what I'm willing to endure for what is right. And I'll know when it's time to move on....I hope!! <P>Lori

medic,<P>yes, you are asking all the tough questions these days. BTW, I can't remember if your wife is still in the affair? tommorrow is actually the 5 mth mark since my wife had her "overwhelming feelings/emotions" towards the OM. I have plan A'd since then, including early on when I gave her space (so she could sneak around and start physical affair). She moved out 3 mths ago. I am now at the point where enough is enough as far as her behavior. <P>I just got back from a spiritual retreat (solo effort) to get some spiritual reflection and direction. I started reading a book, "Boundaries" by some guy named Cloud. I also read the Dobson book on Tough Love. Now, I really think our spouses have to reap what they sow. Up to this point, I have supported my wife financially more than need be (because of our 3 yr old, we share half time). It is now time to cut off all financial assistance. I really believe she has stepped over a boundary we all have as married individuals and she should reap those consequences. I realized I have stopped her getting those consequences. Do I believe we should standby and smile, and love (plan A) them until they come to their senses. I suppose a fair amount of that is not wrong especially the no love busting. BUT...I now think a fair amount of self-respect and firm boundaries for ourselves, can be the most positive. I personally am saddened by those who have plan a/b beyond one year, without the affair ending (sorry to offend some of you). Most of us profess to be Christians, so its interesting noone has said much about the Dobson book and his concept of self-respect. Beyond one year, is really too much in my opinion. I am pulling out for my own good (financial and mental). It's also time for my wife to make some solid decisions. I agree with you medic, that our spouses have their own problems/issues/ and or emotional issues. They may need to seek help, but without the affair ending we can do nothing. (OH yeah, my mind is not affected from getting a 10 am call from wife from 'lovers' house). All I can do, is prepare myself for the possibility of divorce and also work on myself (which I have been doing). We can grow and be stronger from all of this, and we have to remember we can't control or allow ourselves to be controlled by the betrayers behavior and decisions.

Sometimes, you're just done. I am done. Unfortunately, when you get there there's no really going back. I will say, when you get to that point, you'll know it because it no longer seems So sad. Sad, yes, but you realize things are as they are. When you arrive there is can be as good as reconcilling because you're moving on either way. If not, hang in there till you get to "something" one way or the other. I wished mine was the other, but I can't help it. At very least, the despair is gone. Thank God!<BR>Eric

Hi All,<P>Hey Izzy, Val is still seeing her "friend" as she puts it.<P>Resentment is raising it's ugly head in me lately. I called and spoke to her parents last week. I told them both that I understand that I was jointly responsible for the destruction of the marriage. But, they helped hide the affair from me. They would cover for her when she was out with her "friend" I told them that I was very disappointed in their involvement. Her dad got mad and told me that she is 29 years old. I thanked him for reminding me and told him that I am also a father and if MY sons had tried to pull this [censored] there would be he!! to pay. <P>I figured that was pretty much it with the big love busters. That I wouldn't hear from Val for a very long time. I was on the phone last night with Timmy and the call waiting beeped in. Was I suprised that it was Val out walking the dog. It was about 10:40, she never calls that late. I have to believe something was bothering her. Brief nice chat. No LBs. Divorce brought up. Didn't make up her mind yet. "I love you" at the end of converstion from both of us.<P>Not sure what to make of it. I'm not getting my hopes up. Just glad Timmy is coming back from college for a few days with the old man.<P>Wishing us all the Best.<P>Medic