Well, in the continuing saga of DHJ, the HJ must move on without the D. <P>Although H understands why it bothers me so to have him take OW to inlaws, he is going to do it. It is the only way he knew how to make his final decision... Which by-the-way, was to move back here. For the last few weeks he led me to believe he would be moving back in a soon. However, when I told him that was where I drew the line it made him angry (at himself?) so he jumped to the other side. He told me I needed to move on without him and if he has made a mistake maybe I'll take him back later. He says he can't make up his mind so he is going to be with her to see if it is real. <P>I am tired of being lied to - I can't believe he let me think he was moving back - I can't believe the one thing I asked for from him he can't give me (That was to not take her unless we were definitely over) - I can't believe he can actually leave his 18 month old son.<P>Anyway, I am once again devastated all over. I deserve better and so does my son. <P>I wish you all more luck than I had. <P><P>------------------<BR>d is for dog<BR>h is for hope<BR>j is for joy, pure joy!<P>

Dear dhj<P>we must be kindred spirits. Read my post - I cant take this anymore' and you'll see why.<BR>I also have a 4yo and an 18 mth old, and have the same questions as you - how can they leave.<P>I feel for you, at least my H hasnt said he's moving home.<P>I'm supposed to be in Plan B - but quite frankly I just want to get rid of him out of my life.<P>Today has been awful for me, I'm sorry to be so negative for you, but I understand where you are coming from.<P>I guess we have to keep our chins up, give them the freedom to decide what and who it is they want, and pray and hope that it is their families. Us.<P>Please know that someone out there understands what you are going thru. We will get through this, dont know where, dont know when (is that a song??) but we will<P>Have a lovely Sunday with your baby. 18 mths is such a beautiful age isnt it ? Give your baby a big hug and a big squeeze, make him laugh, and you will laugh also.<BR>I did that today. It made me feel a lot better.<P>Take care of you, and baby<P>Jo

dhj,<P>{{{{{{{{{{dhj}}}}}}}}}}<P>I'm so sorry for you...<P>It's so sad when they(spouses) lie to you... and what is even sadder... the frequency of lies just escalates and escalates...<P>When my W was still home... the kids (even my 7yo daughter) said to me... "why is mommy lying so much"... It made me very sad to hear that from her. In that way... it is almost good that she moved out... now the lies are less frequent... but only because W isn't here. <P>There will be more sad days to come for all of us...<BR>But... know that we all wish you well... and are here for moral support!<P>Jo is right (again)... find time with your son... give him a little tickle from me... Focus on being a better you... everyday.<P>Thanksgiving will be tough for everyone... It will be fist <B>ever</B> for me without my kids... It will their first <B>ever</B> without either set of grandparents (My MIL is very upset.) But, we'll all get through it... Thanksgiving is not atime to think of what you don't have... but for what we do have... <P>You have <B>you</B> and <B>your son</B>... Keep him in the palms of your hand...<P>If I can't reply again before Thursday... "Have a Loving Thanksgiving"...<P>Jim

Speaking of MIL!, why is it that none of the betrayers, family`s, set them straight..? try and help make a better and right difference.. where are the family morals and values in this world any more...? Isn`t it that people should stick together, and try and help up hold these family values..... why do (all) the family`s, not get involved, and show no concern towards what was suppose to be (a part of) the family...? <P>my ex`s family not once called to ask what they could do for us.. (kid and I) not once asked me, do you need me for any thing.. not once, showed me an ounce of concern for my well being while going through depression.., or stood up to my ex for (if) what they beleive, is wrong...! <P>What is it with this world!? <P>The courts make it easier and easier to get a divorce, and everyone who chooses to leave, gets away with it, with no effort to be made, what so ever..! <P>The family`s say nothing, and let their stupid family memeber run away from his/her responcibilities...! <BR> <BR>Can any one explain this...? or is it just me...<P>AV

hi dhj, this post has been on my mind since i read it yesterday. I had to stop cleaning and finally write a few things. This is not meant as disrespectful or harsh at all, but as a different way to look at this situation.<BR>Thanksgiving is just another day. We have placed the meaning of the day-we have made it into something. The bottom line is it is another day in our lives, there is food and you are in a building with other people. Why is that special? Because we choose to make it that way. Just as you can choose to make the same day into something else for yourself and the kids! <BR>There is really nothing spectacular about the day, nor about your h's plans. Believe me I am not condoning his behavior!! Ot that of his family. <BR>But is it possible that some of this is your perception? Making too much of the 'day'? If you were willing to work toward reconciliation before this t-day thing threw a wrench into the gears, why have this be the make or break point? <BR>True, it may just be the last straw situation and I understand that completely. But if not, try to step back and look at it another way. (((hugs))) cl

well my H is taking OW to relatives for the thanksgiving holiday too, and he is taking our son as well. So it will probably be a sad day for me as well. Missing both of them, but I have a great family that I am going to be with and I am going to count my blessings. Hugs and prayers for all of you,<P>------------------<BR>joanne<BR>

I don't mean to offend either... really cl...<P>I'm sorry... I don't think Thanksgiving can be thought of as "(just) another day".<P>"Family" holidays Thanksgiving, Christmas, Easter(for some) are the only time families can truly reunite. Distance today makes it difficult to join together... and it is these little oasis that those who concern themselves with family unity... is all the have.<P>I will feel very hurt this Thanksgivng... and Christmas... and every major holiday... for my W's selfishness of having them for herself... no grandparents... no aunts... no uncles... <B>no cousins</B> (only complete strangers (OM's family) to celebrate what has for <B>every</B> year of their lives... been a "family" time.<P>I can... and will survive it! I know I can! But there will be hurt there... (I saw it today in my mom's eyes and her words to my oldest son... and I saw and felt it when my MIL wept in front of me last weekend!)<P>It won't be a make or break day for any of us but let's do encourage each other....<P>I am so thankful for all of you. <P>Jim

nsr, i think you may have misunderstood? really, it is in the perception.

Thanks everyone - <P>When I posted this update I did not expect such a response. It makes me feel much better.<P>In addition, my MIL called this morning. She is very sick and this is all making it worse. As it turns out my H has been caught in another lie. (Surprise! Surprise!) His parents told him it was wrong to bring her home unless it was over between us. He told them he had not made a decision, they told him they did not want him to bring her home unless he had. They haven't talked to him since so they have no idea if they are coming down or not. However, my husbands exact words to me were - They (his parents) are 100% ok with OW coming down for the holiday. <P>The nerve he had to bring his parents into the middle of this. UNREAL!!! Further proof of the type of person he has become! <P>PS - For the big debate on Thanksgiving. I agree we all make it a special day, but that it is just another day. That makes it easier to stomach. The botttom line is you spend holidays - no matter which one - with family. She IS NOT family (at least not yet). In addition, I would have had the same reaction if it was the middle of March. It is wrong for him to take her while he is still married (not legally separated) and still trying decide what to do. <P>I wish you all a Happy Holiday however you spend it. I will be with the most important person in my life and that is my perfect little boy - pure joy!!! He is my priority - always was and always will be. I am sorry it was a problem with my H. <P><P>------------------<BR>d is for dog<BR>h is for hope<BR>j is for joy, pure joy!<P>

I am glad you talked with your mil, but am very sorry to hear she is ill. Any way to help her heal? Take son over for a couple hrs, or send her some pictures? E-mail a baby photo? <BR>This h is being manipulative or is he lost in the fantasy? Denial? It was pretty clear to me that OW was not exactly welcome....his father needs to whack that boy! He is lying to you, ow, and parents. <BR>One of the great things about forums is that you can get all sorts of different ideas, thoughts, and perspectives. Sometimes they work, other times they are too far from our personal philosophy. But one never knows when someone will come up with an idea that will work! Something that will change the day for us, open our eyes a bit wider, help us heal. <BR>Keep your head on, and i love the choice of who is first!! <p>[This message has been edited by cl (edited November 21, 1999).]

dhj,<P>Sorry you all won't be together for Thanksgiving. We won't be here, either. But, Everyone of us will be together here but H, who iwll be in FL with OW. In my opinion, it is HIS loss! I am determined to make the holiday as "normal" and special for my kids and grandkids as possible under the circumstances. we will still have the same traditional menu I usually cook, with all the trimmings.<P>anster,<P>I read your post. Unfortunately, I do not think our wayward S's would "listen" to tehir family mmebrs telling them they are doing "wrong". If our S's can't feel guilty enough on their own during the affiar, can't feel guilty enough looking at how much we are suffering, can't feel guilty enough looking into the faces of the children they are disappointing - why would they feel guilty because of something Mom, Dad or suibling said?? Wish it COULD happen, but I don't think it will happen.<P>As a person who has done this in the past I will give you my perspective - The betrayer has to push away ALL guilt and not let anything anyone says "get" to him or her during the affair. It is how the betrayer can continue to do it. When guilt starts to eat you up, the affair has got to crumble. So, the betrayer will avoid guilt, guilt-inducing situations and guilt-inducing people like the plague!!!!<P>Roll Me Away

Anster,<P>My in-laws have done nothing to make it easier for me, either. I am raising two sons on my own now, and according to MIL this whole thing is my fault and she just wants her son to be happy. They never offer to help me with anything, I work full time, go to school part-time, and have a house and five acres to care for. They would not say anything to their son, he is the golden boy. Sometimes I think that is a big part of his problem. He lives with them now, and he's got it made. If I had left him and the kids, my mother would tell me to get myself back home with my kids where I belonged!<P>AD