Lost love<BR>I am a 38 year old male and the woman that i am in love with is 33 years and has child that is 9 years old.<P> I met this woman over a year and half ago. I just saw her coming through the doors at college when I went back to further myself job wise. She was wearing the ugliest floral green dress I ever saw but her hair was done up, wearing sunglasses and brown short boots. <P>As I saw her I knew in my heart, mind, body and soul that this was the woman for me.<BR>We didn't talk the first time but the next day she came over to pick up her timetable for the summer semester and we got into a brief talk about school, schedules and goals.<BR>We had various other talks throughout a course of a couple of weeks but they were nothing as to us getting together in any kind of relationship. Then one day about 3 weeks after we first met and a few conversations she came out to me where I was standing having a smoke break between classes and asked me to borrow my car. I reached in my pocket and didn't even hesitate to give her the keys and said to her when I was done so she could bring my car back to me. She was on time and waiting for me so she stayed in my car and drove me to a place to get something to eat and we had a good conversation and found out we had alot in common on our views of things.<P>She asked me if I would go with her to look at a car and I said yes. I told her the car was too expensive and she got the price down a few hundred $. She went to get the car the next day it needed a bunch of work that she didn't know about so she asked me if I would go with her to get her money back and I said yes.<P>We then went and met a friend of hers and talked to her for awhile. Her friend (later she told me) asked who I was because she was interested in me (I guess that got her thinking about us)and wondered if we were going out together and she said she hadn't thought about it. After we left her friends place she asked me if I wanted to come over to her place the next evening and I said yes. <P>We talked for hours and after about 5 1/2 hours she said to me that she was surprised that I hadn't made a move or pass on her and I said it was up to the woman to make the moves. She asked me to kiss her and I did and she was in total shock she told me because she didn't expect me to be that great of a kisser and I surprised her. We ended up getting together (by being a couple a couple of weeks later and no there was no sex on that night until a few days later)<P>What transpired between us in the last 9 weeks are:<BR>1. She cheated on me saying it was over but that didn't happen until a few days later (5 days to be exact)<BR>2. She ended up going with the guy she cheated on me with.<BR>3. She had an abortion (my child) because she thought I didn't care for her because of the following reasons:<BR> a. She thought I knew she was pregnant and didn't care to call her (which I had no idea she was pregnant.<BR> b. She didn't want to go through another situation like she does have to go through with her daughters father.<BR> c. She thought we were truly over with and didn't think we would get back together again.<BR> d. She thought the grass was greener on the other side. <BR>4. She came looking for me and we got back together that day but I had to go through a suicide attempt that night because she thought of herself as a bad person who killed someone. I didn't think she was really serious about it that she just wanted some attention because she wanted me to watch her do it.<BR>5. Said she was confused about everything that had been happening in her life.<BR>6. Ended the relationship because of the following reasons:<BR> a. Didn't want to be in a relationship where she was with one person and thinking about another person.<BR> b. Didn't want a relationship of convenience. <BR> c. Wanted to be alone to heal and fix herself but that lasted long a day or two and she was back with the guy she cheated on me with.<BR> d. Told me I was doing everything right but it was her that needed to know where she was going.<BR>There is a couple of things that is bothering me right now about what is still going or not going on between us and they are:<BR> a. She still wants and says I can have a relationship with her daughter even though the father is still in the picture along with the new guy.<BR> b. She told me she would never ask me for my help but the day she ended it about 2 1/2 hours later she called looking for me to help her out and then waited another hour before she came and got me to help her out which she could've done by herself. Then 2 days later phoned me at 11:35p.m. to come over and help her out. Which I did about an hour later.<BR>I have to say that I do truly "LOVE", "CARE" and "WANT" to be with this woman. I have never put up with 1/100th of the B.S. that I have with any other woman before or will again but for her I will do anything for her and she knows that too.<BR>What she has to deal with me in our relationship:<BR>1. My ex finding our number and calling us and hanging and fighting with her.<BR>2. My ex's family calling and bothering us for no reason at all.<BR>3. My condescending attitude at times. I see more black and white than grey areas in things.<BR>4. My stubbornness on things.<BR>5. I get defensive at times especially when I know I am right but she hates to be wrong my fir gets up.<P>What I had to deal with her:<BR>1. constant stress relating to the following things:<BR> a. A case that she went through here at school and she won<BR> b. Cancer scare she might never have kids again.<BR> a. The cancer surgery she went through<BR> b. The haemorrhaging she went through because of the surgery.<BR> c. The extra semester of school she had to go through in order to qualify for her placement in her two diploma's she was hoping to get.<BR> d. The 5 weeks she was extremely sick and I pulled my weight to keep her up-to-date with all her assignments and work before doing mine.<BR> e. The six months of placement she was on and I was there every morning making sure of the following things were done:<BR> a. she was up<BR> b. Go her daughter up and dressed ready for school<BR> c. put the coffee on<BR> d. got her daughters breakfast and lunch made.<BR> e. morning dishes were done<BR> in the afternoon I did the following things for her to help out:<BR> a. Missed classes a couple of times a week so I was there when her daughter came home from school.<BR> b. Helped her daughter do her homework<BR> c. Cooked supper for her and her daughter (steak, chicken, pork chops and veggies)<BR> d. Did the supper dishes for her so she could relax after her long day<BR> e. Did the vacuuming a couple times a week.<BR> f. When she worked late I made sure her daughter had her bath and she was ready for bed so when mom came home all she had to do was spend some time with her daughter.<BR>2. Being constantly in trouble with her on what I said, how I said it and tone I said things in.<BR>3. Accused of doing all these things just to keep her obligated to me.<BR>4. Two indiscretions of infidelity (that I know of) while I was looking after her daughter (which I considered to be just like my own daughter).<BR>5. Accused by her that she didn't feel I loved her even though I said it and tried to show her that is what teams are made of by helping each other out when we need it.<BR>6. Finding out now that she doesn't believe she deserves the love from a guy like me and she should get less than what I have to offer her.<P>Don't get me wrong I am not trying to paint myself as an angel here because I have my faults and I am willing to own up to them and take my share of the repsonsibilty for the relationship falling apart because little things can add up to be as much as big things.<P>Hope somebody can help me out because I truly love this woman with all my heart, soul, mind and body. When we got back together again it was her that came to me and not me to her.<BR>Thank you all for taking the time to read this and any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated.<BR><P>------------------<BR>

The first thing I have to say is: Wow.<BR>You have been a good person to be there for her through all that transpired.<P>Secondly: She needs help. You may love her as she is, but she needs some professional help - like a pastor or a therapist or a psychologist.<P>It seems to me, that you've made yourself almost indispensible in this woman's life. She seems to need you and then resent needing you. She also seems to have some fidelity and commitment issues going on. <P>The pregnancy-abortion episode suggests to me that maybe you two are not communicating at all. If you plan to stay with this woman, you need to work on that.<P>My final question (and it may be hard for you to swallow, but please think about it): Does she love YOU for you or does she want a best friend who can help her out with her child, work, schoolwork, etc.?<P>

Anise:<P>To answer your first question:<P> I thought that is what couples do when they are working together to build a relationship consisting of trust, friendship, mutual respect, and a long term committment when it has been agreed upon by both sides. <P>TO answer your second question:<BR> <BR> Yes she has stated that she wants to get and seek help and to heal herself for what has transpired in the last 3 years. She has also stated she wants to seek out help for why she did what she did to us and why she goes back to familiar things like this guy she is going with now.<P>To answer your third question:<P> I believe you could be right on the fact that before the case started at the college here she was very independent and self-sufficient with not having to lean or depend on anyone to help her out. As the case continued and the way that they tried to screw her around the more of a toll it took on her in respect to physical health, mental, and spiritual well being. Now that it was hurting her in those areas she may resent the fact that she had needed anyone to help her and now she is rebelling against the things I used to do for her to show that she is and can be independent (that is just supposition now).<BR>Yes, she does seem to have an intimacy problem even though that is what she wants but is scared of because of her past and waiting for it to blow up in her face. She has told me this in the last couple of weeks when she was going for counselling for the abortion because that is what the councellor picked up on right away. <P>As far as the abortion yes there was a communication problem there because she thought I already knew from a friend of hers and she thought because she thought I knew then I didn't care because I didn't contact her to talk about it that it was my fault she had to go through with it by herself.<BR> Honestly I had no idea that she was pregnant and she knew that I wanted a child of my own. She told me after the fact because she figured I would've tried to convince her to keep it (even though it was probably better that she did go through the abortion because of all the med's she has been on over the last couple of years relating to the stress she has been through). What has mad me mad about the abortion is the fact that she couldn't tell me about her decision before hand not after it was done.<P>To answer your final question:<P> That is a hard one but from I have found out from what her friends and what she has told my friends is that she does "Love" me very much but at the same time she is very scared of me because she is afraid that it will be taken away from her and she doesn't want it to blow up in her face. She has had a rleationship before where she gave like I am giving to her now and it blew up in her face and she got really hurt by it so she doesn't want to go through with it again so she wants to make darn sure this is the real thing and if I really do care for her to help her work things out even though she is doing what she is doing right now ( I know that is not right). It does sound like she is testing me for whatever reason I don't know or maybe it really is over for us and I haven't dealt with it myself I don't know<P> One thing I neglected to say in my initial posting is the night we got back together for the second time on Dec 1, 1999 we were out having a good time until we got back to her house and she broke down and wanted to committ suicide (even though I don't think she would've don it or would I let her go through with it)for what had happend over the past 6 weeks.

Dear Kenip:<P>Forgive me if I sound harsh, but you are quickly getting swallowed into a dangerous, all-consuming, take-take-take relationship. I'm not saying you should abandon her -- but this woman needs help and now. Your role in the relationship shouldn't be as her counselor. You can be her friend, but until she's healthy, she won't be able to offer you anything other than grief. If you really want to help her, encourage her to help herself with a professional psychiatrist.<P>Good luck.

Spotlight:<P>You know when she ended this relationship the second time she said that she wanted to work on healing herself and try to understand why she did to us what she did and she was going to take the time to be alone and work on herself. I did tell her that she should tell us both to take a hike and do that.<P>She said that she might do that but at the same time she had already made her decision in her mind not to me that day to go back with him. She told me that she would never ask me to do anything for her but that night she did ask me to help her out. Then 2 days later she asked me to help her out again. Then this past Sunday she came home from her so-called new boyfriends place which is about 2.5 hours away and left early to get and talk to me at 12:30 that afternoon. Then she phoned me about ano hour later looking for me. She then phoned me about 7:00pm that night wanting to talk to me and come over and see her. I told her I couldn't because I was tired and she sounded really disappointed and said she would talk to me the next day(Monday) or see me on Tuesday.<P>This is from a woman that said she would never ask anything of me again. She has already asked me 3x's in the last 6 days to help her out in one thing or another. <P>She came home early on Sunday because I think she found out something on Saturday night or early Sunday morning that scared her and she is starting to realize the mistake she made and is trying to find some way to come back to me with class and dignity (this is supposistion though 2).<P>U are all right but I do love her and she does have a deadline which is until April. Then I will be gone and this is in order for her to make up her mind now on what she wants or don't want from either one of us.<P>But I do hope she does and follows through the councelling for herself to help her decide what and where she wants to go in life

Kenip,<P>I somewhat can relate to this woman you love, so in my own circumstances that are different from hers and yours let me try to explain what she might be thinking and therefore dictating the way she acts. I could be wrong and she may be a taker, but I would tend to doubt it, I hope I'm right for your sake! By the way, don't ever lose the way you feel about a woman and the way you treat and help her out--no matter what happens! God knows we need more MEN like you in the world!!<BR>Emotions are a funny thing:they aren't logical sometimes, then again if you care to know where that person came from they tend to make more sense if you apply YOURSELF and YOUR reactions to HER circumstances.I was adopted young,grew up in a bad adoptive home,shut out from the world and growing up very early. When I went to college, I walked around with my head down and arms folded and people used to laugh at me. One guy befriended me-said he thought I needed a friend-he now is my husband and has changed alot since then but helped me sort through everything then. She's probably looking for someone who will love her no matter what and she will test that with things she know will bother you just to see how you will react. If you get upset, she'll probably shut down and shut you out. She wants to know that you love her no matter what she does, then after you've proved that she probably will settle down. She also wants you to ALREADY know what she needs, what she's thinking, what's going on, because it's hard for her to open her heart. I know to a guy that might be an impossible task, but if you could in a round-a-bout way ask her things that would give away what she wants or needs it would be good. The once in a while thing of commitment usually is when she gets to thinking about letting you in, and then she remembers all the hurt and shuts down again. About the men...she might want to see how jealous you are, if you're going to get mad, or if you are going to come after her, show her you want her, and prove it over and over. Some things will happen for a while, if this is what I think it is, until she is convinced that you mean business. By the way, you are wonderful to do all those things for her like you do, BUT it does NOT necessarily tell her you love her--you need to do things for HER emotions if you are to win HER. That doesn't mean she doesn't appreciate them, but it doesn't meet her needs as a person. I know some of these actions are drastic(ie.abortion), but that's what happens when you lose hope. In her mind, her security, no matter how bad she treats you right now, had walked out. She needs you to hold her up right now until she can walk on her own to feet. I felt independent too, responsible for everything, but when that caring person comes along, those people that have been through so much fall apart and their not so strong as you or they thought they were. Take her to get some help; be a TRUE friend and watch who you get to help her!! Her feelings sound fragile! Feelings like these are sensible one day and not the next, so if you have the patience love her through this;she has alot to deal with. Don't feel sorry for her(independent people don't like that)but in your own way feel enough for her to do the BEST for her and the both of you. I don't mean to make excuses for her, and this is not the way for you to be treated and put up with it for a long time, but it sounds like she is in a valley. I hope you come out of this not hurt too bad!If you feel the way you say you do about her, you NEED to communicate ALL THE TIME (even if you think it is too often) that no matter what happens you will always love her--she will test that if you mean business, but if this is what I think it is, in the end you will have a woman that loves you beyond your imagination! I am thankful to say I came out of a bad situation successfully, but my hope is GOD. I am not preaching, but you may want to find out, if you do not know, what HE can do for a person who has lost hope. God saved me from alot, and every day I am living proof of what HE can do in a life! She does need a best friend right now, but that does not mean she doesn't want you to be other things. Help her through one thing at a time-in priority! Remember, be careful, since you aren't perfect as we all would like to be, you will hurt her, just try to understand how a person is that has been through this and it will help. One last thought...the reason I love God so much is that HE is perfect and never hurt me while I was working on things; I could trust him like no other, knowing HE would always do what was best for me, no matter how hard it was to work on those things I needed to! May these words encourage you today! Not everyone that seems bad is bad; it's exactly what I said: SEEMS! That does not mean we are to be blind to people like this, yet be compassionate and all the more wiser to help them.

Hello,<BR>I had another thing I needed to say...If you want this woman to "fix" certain behaviors(cheating,etc..), you must be an example and be different than other guys she's known. Treat her with respect, in return she may learn how to respect herself. Doesn't it strike you as odd that she would be surprised you didn't make "moves"on her like she expected you to(like all the others)???<BR>It doesn't sound like she's had anyone teach her that certain things aren't right to do and that they hurt other people. Communicate to her about you too; if you forget about yourself, you will no communicate later if she gets through her "stuff". Always, ACTIONS speak LOUDER than words ever will!!!!

Moneypenny:<P><BR>You know your situation sounds very much like hers. She was put in the Childrens' Aid Ward here in Canada (never adopted) Was sexual abused when growing up and was raped(didn't realize it until later that it was rape). I will have to tell you that I have grown very cold in respects to her (not jumping through hoops like before when she wanted something) still doing them but at my own pace. She has said that she won't ask me for anything again but still calls me and has me doing things for her even though she has a so-called boyfriend. She says that she knows that I love her but at the same time feels that I don't love her. I don't know what to do because I keep giving myself to her and trying my best to help her out as best as I possibly can with whatever means that I have. I took her daughter out x-mas shopping for her mom (which really isn't my place because it shopuld be her new boyfriends responsibility if he feels anything for her and her daughter like I do). Then I took her the next day to the show and gave her mom a chance to have some relaxation after going to the hospital for her migraine headache ( I do these things because I LOVE both of them and want to be with them both).<P>Don't get me wrong I am not perfect or an angel and I take responsibility for what my mistakes are in this relationship butI don't know what I have to do and show her to make her believe that I do and truly love her for her and not what she can do in other aspects of the relationship.<P>I would just want to e with her becauase as far as I am concerned both of them are the most special people in the world and they deserve to get all there hopes and dreams as far as I am concerned. I would do anything for them and she knows it too but she has expressed on many occassions to friends on both sides of us that she is a scared of it blowing up in her face and when it gets close she backs off. SHE WAS ABLE TO GIVE THIS OTHER GUY EVERYTHING RIGHT OF THE BAT BUT NOT ME i HAD TO FIGHT AND DO EVERYTHING FOR HER JUST TO GET A SMALL PEICE OF WHAT SHE IS GIVING HIM. But at the same time she is always calling me to help her out and not him which doens't make any sense to me.

Kenip,<P>I would suggest that you read Dr. Harley's article <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5068a_qa.html" TARGET=_blank>Choosing the right one to marry</A>.<P>You speak of this love as a "instantaneous" thing---you knew right away. That's not real love. That's an infatuation. And what you seem to be doing is going on a "quest" to pursue this woman, against all odds.<P>The effort is disproportionate to the stage of your relationship. You're not married to her, and you don't have a responsibility to her child. I would suggest that the best thing you could do for yourself is to leave her alone, and start learning the skills embodied in the book "The four gifts of love"---it'll give you a better idea of how a healthy relationship should function.

It's quite amazing to me how many people say to you "leave her alone" as if you need to find the perfect person that has everything right first. The reality is that more people don't live in this fantasy, and especially now days more and more "children" are growing up damaged like this woman. No you aren't married to her, but that doesn't mean that as a friend you can't do some of the things you are doing(ie. Christmas shop with the daughter). What happened to caring for and befriending someone that isn't as fortunate as you, or hasn't had as much of a chance as you? The things these people are saying sounds like Darwin's "Survival of the Fittest"---which is not the way life is supposed to be. I don't want you to be hurt because of a relationship like this, but you could be the only true friend she has(and I think she knows that already b/c she doesn't want to let you go). The rule isn't "I'll be your friend, if you are a good friend to me or you do everything right". Gracious!!! What happened to actually caring for someone else's well-being and not expecting something in return? What is better: breaking a friendship b/c someone's not good enough for marriage yet, or just being someone's friend b/c everyone needs a friend? I'm not saying let her use you and run all over you at all, but people like her and like me have grown up in a different world. Just like you meet people everyday that are very shallow and don't think much of it, we have not just met them but they have taken advantage of us. Why do you not think that we would thoroughly test someone to see if they really were the person they said to be? Time and consistency, if you care to invest it, is the only thing that will tell whether she will trust you and accept you as a friend or more some day. Sounds like she doesn't think she's worth it or that you would want her after all that has happened to her. I only hope that if you do stick around, that you are strong enough to handle this.People want things fixed right now, and not many have the patience to take the time it needs. Sounds like she needs alot of good crying to get out all the hurt that she's stuffed deeper so no one will see, and to face what she wants to forget. Could you preserve yourself enough through this, that you could be her friend, even if you never benefited, just b/c you wanted to do something right and influence someone for the better. I don't think right now you could or should for your sake be anything else. Maybe you could find out what a TRUE friend does and is to someone. <BR>Does this other man use her or does he treat her good? I can very much relate with her not wanting to be with you b/c it might blow up in her face. Remember this: These kinds of people have learned many times not to trust something good, b/c they don't want to get hurt again by a lie; they don't want to be turned away b/c they aren't good enough after they've already let their guard down with someone. People like this don't trust that they could find someone that would actually care about them enough to make them happy, until after time they realize it's there to stay. That's why I wonder if you'll be strong for that. The key is to work a little everyday(not as a slave)to bring her guard down, but be careful not to hurt her, b/c those walls will fly up faster than you can blink your eyes! <BR>If you think that she's given that other man everything right off the bat, I highly doubt it!!! She probably is more comfortable with him, b/c she doesn't have to face with him things from the past, as she would you b/c you want to help her. Sounds like she's running right now, instead of facing up to these things.<BR>I know that not everyone changes and alot of people like this only know how to use people, but I suppose I take this situation kind of personal. If someone hadn't been my friend, where would I be today? I wouldn't be where I am today!!!!! A friend watches out for someone, cares for them, and inspires and helps them to be a better person. A friend is a friend even in the hard times--they push when neccessary and the pull when the other one can't walk. Don't let this make you bitter; it's not you that she's got the problem with--it's inside her. A person has to face a problem before they can ever deal with it. <BR>Sounds like for the most part you're a good guy.I suppose this situation will test who you really are too. Don't let someone else kill that spirit!!!! Hope the best for you!

I hope you'll pardon my harshness, but I've been in a situation where all I ever did was give, and got nothing in return except for a divorce one week after I followed my ex across the country.<P>I have one thought for you:<P>"Don't play games with other people's hearts, and DON'T PUT UP WITH THOSE WHO PLAY GAMES WITH YOUR HEART!"<BR> <BR>I don't know where that quote is from, but it's a good one to keep in mind. BTW, I am now happily remarried to a man who is as committed to me as I am to him. Some people just don't know how to give love, and you can't let them drag you down. You deserve someone that will love you back as deeply and strongly as you love them. Everyone deserves that much.<P>I'll remember you in my prayers!<P>

Kenip,<P>Here are a few words from someone that married a woman very similar to your's.<P>The woman I married back in 1976 had come from an extremely abusive home. Her father was an alcoholic that also used barbituates. The women on her mother's side have a long history of severe depression (my personal observation).<P>When she was growing up her father sometimes chased his wife and children with a car or rifle for such reasons as running out of ice for his booze. He beat everyone at the slightest whim, and several times cut her mother with a broken glass or bottle. He was stopped several times by the police from killing one or another of the family members and was in a locked psych unit several times. There were many other incidents, but this gives you a general idea of what he was like to grow up around.<P>Her mother had polio when a teenager and had to relearn to walk again. Her first love had been her husband's brother, who died at 16 or 17. She eventually married his older brother, thinking he was like his brother. She tried to leave her husband once after their first two children were born(my wife and her younger brother). Her husband found her, raped her and took her home. In the early 50's this was considered family matters and the police refused to get involved. After this the drinking and abuse increased and she was afraid to ever try again to leave him. When in her mid 30's she went through a time where she would sit in the middle of her bed and just stare for several days at a time. She died in her early 50's of cancer before my wife had a chance to come deal with her feelings towards her mother.<P>My wife is legally blind due to shaken baby syndrome. She was so abused at about 12 - 18 months(Dr.'s estimate) that there are a number of tiny fractures in her shoulder area. She had old stich scars running from just below her belly button straight down to her rectum. She asked her mother about the scar once in her early teens. Her mother started to cry and would not talk to her for a long time. When my wife was about 13 or so her mother tried to tell her she had to take over having sex with her father, as her mother couldn't handle it anymore(her father refused).<P>My wife did much of the raising of her brother and 2 sisters, as well as help run the family business. In her senior year of high school she went away to the state school for the blind to get out of the house.<P>After graduating she went on to college for several years but never graduated. While in college she went through the free sex and drugs thing that was so popular then and had an abortion. She was married for the first time and spent several years supporting a man that was abusive, drug using, and refused to work(no health problems). Men would come to their apartment in the middle of the night wanting paid for the drugs her husband had gotten or someone was going to be hurt. At one time she was forced by her husband to pose nude for photos to help pay off someone.<P>This was the 26 year old woman whose apartment I walked into with my cousin in the summer of 1975.<P>I knew the first time I saw her I wanted to spend the rest of my life with her. Call it infatuation, love, whatever you want I don't care. That was over 24 years ago and I can still shut my eyes and see her standing there.<P>When we were married in May of 1976 I was 19 and she was 27. Our marriage is so far out from the normal statistics that it doesn't even show on any measurements that I've seen.<P>Over the years I have made almost every mistake possible in such a marriage. I have been insensitive when she needed understanding; impatient when she needed understanding and gentleness; upset and hurt when she expressed her frustrations to me; listening to what she said, rather than what she meant.<P>If you choose to continue this relationship with her(and it is your choice) here are a few suggestions that might help based on what I have seen in my marriage.<P>Women(and probably men) that have come from or through extremely abusive situations seem to feel they don't deserve any better. I would guess you scare her and she runs to the other man because she feels she is dependent on you and you might someday let her down. In my situation my wife looks back at our 24 years together and sees only the problems(some real, some imagined). My wife sees commitment as a trap and an effort to control her life on my part.<P>It will take you an incredible amout of patience and understanding to make this work out, I think. You must be prepared for sudden mood swings when something triggers a memory from the past even years later. You may be accused of things that never happened and you would not consider doing. You may be shut out of parts of her life at times and only able to wait for her to come back to you. At times hell will look like a better lifestyle. You will be hurt and feel pain in ways you did not know existed at times. Whenever someone that is truly abusive and controlling gets close to her she will be drawn to them for some reason.<P>Right now I am playing the waiting game again. My wife started running around with a very controlling abusive woman neighbor last spring that convinced her without any knowledge of our history that I was her enemy and only wanted to control her. This woman went so far as to drive my wife to a lawyer and fill out the divorce papers the way she(the neighbor) wanted them done. My wife won't talk to her own lawyer directly, she calls the neighbor who then calls the lawyer and gets back to my wife.<P>This woman also convinced my wife to move a 17 year old boy into the bedroom with our 13 year old daughter in August. She convinced my wife that it was good for them to be together like this. This neighbor is on her third marriage in less time than my wife and I have been together. In her first marriage the judge gave the children to her husband with no visitation even for her. This is not a good type of person to take marriage or family advice from.<P>This is the third time in our 24 years something similar has happened. Each time it only settled down when the person moved away from the area. Right now I am trying to work with Family Services and my lawyer to sort the mess out. My wife could end up in jail and the woman who started and encouraged the situation will walk away clean. My best hope is that this woman is planning on moving out of the area next summer.<P>Our two older children have offered to help me get custody of their sister if the divorce goes through. Our 17(now 18) year old daughter left the house with me, saying she was afraid to stay with her mother the way she is acting. My wife's sisters refused to help her out, saying she had no reason for a divorce.<P>In some ways your situation is better than mine. My wife was diagnosed years ago with depression and an anxiety disorder. She is supposed to be on medication for both but refuses to take the medication claiming no one wants to hear the real truth. Instead she switches doctors when they insist she needs the medication. One counsellor we went to many years ago explained to me that she vented her fears and frustrations on me because she knew I would take it and it was safe for her to do. These are just some samples of what we have been through.<P>Having said all this would I do it all over again, knowing what I know now? I give a qualified "yes". There are many things I could have done to make our relationship better for both of us.<P>After 24 years I still have not seen another woman I would rather be with. There have been a few that I was attracted to from time to time, but I recognized that what was attracting me was something about them that reminded me of my wife. I still love her as much or more than when we were first married. I still feel all excited when she is around, and cry when she hurts me. I still wear my ring even though she filed papers for divorce. I am still praying for a miracle.<P>If, after everyone is done talking you still want to continue this relationship remember the following:<P>You are dealing with a very hurt and emotionally damaged person that you love. She may not always be able to love you the way you want due to her hurt and emotional damage.<P>Be incredibly patient, then more patient with her.<P>Tell her many times and many ways EVERY day how much you love her, even if you are hurting or not sure at the moment.<P>Every time she does something that causes you to feel hurt, pain or sorrow forgive her as soon as possible. Remember, she is most likely hurting herself as much or more.<P>Never, never, never give up hope or your love regardless of what others may think or tell you to do. You must be willing to make a commitment to this woman knowing all the problems you could be facing in the future.<P>Always tell her you are sorry when you do something that causes her hurt, and try not to repeat it.<P>Remember and cherish the good times, and learn from the rough times.<P>Be consistent with her. If you want her to trust you enough to allow you into her life you must be there for her when she needs you.<P>Listen to what she MEANS when she talks to you, that can be far different from what she says. This takes a lot of practice and time.<P>Avoid ordinary counselors like rabid animals. They can do as much damage to your relationship as anything can. All of them I have seen are incompetent to handle this kind of relationship and can only increase your problems. They do this by stirring up old issues from the distant past and bringing all the hurt along with them, without offering any real help.<P>I only found Dr. Harley's books a few months ago, I wish I had known about him years ago. I do not know if it is too late for my marriage to be saved, but his material is the only real hope I have seen. Read the material and follow his ideas and rules.<P>Good Luck!<BR>Ron