Hi! I have been trying to figure out the<BR>Question and Answer format where people ask questions and get other<BR>opinions and cannot quite figure it out. <P>Anyway, my question/situation involves a christian relationship with a<BR>dilemma about where to attend church. My boyfriend of a year and a <BR>half (including 5 years of knowing each other) is very active with his<BR>church, and I am very active with my church. My two teenagers are<BR>very involved with my church (I have been divorced for the past five<BR>years). <P>The dilemma is that because we are so involved at my church (teens in youth and <BR>myself on the worship team), I do not feel that I want to upset the spiritual aspect<BR>of my children and ask them to attend another church with my boyfriend because they are fed so well at my church. My boyfriend has a 19-year-old daughter who lives with her mother and in college so<BR>there is no reason for him to not compromise and attend my church so I do not have to feel torn between attending my church with my<BR>teens or to go with him.<P>I feel it is more healthy for the relationship for him to compromise and<BR>attend my church, however, he likes his pastor more. He has come once to my church. My pastor is very good as well, but he likes the pastor at his church more (been there for over 10 years). This is tearing apart our relationship because I want the relationship to share in serving the same church. He will not compromise. <P>Because he will not compromise, is it time to move on to a different relationship or should I just wait another four years until my son graduates and not expect this spiritual aspect of our relationship to<BR>grow? Am I being too pushy about this subject after a year and a half of dating? The relationship is serious, but this subject is so important and he will not compromise and this makes me question the future of his ability to compromise in other issues in a future marriage.<P>I don't want to attend separate churches. It is my #1 desire to have a<BR>relationship where we attend church together. Should I be the one to<BR>change this desire? Is it too high of an expectation? It is very difficult<BR>for our relationship to grow when we attend different churches. He is totally fine with going to separate churches, however, this does not sit well with me at all. Am I the one that is being selfish or unrealistic in<BR>wanting us to attend my church for the next four years?<P>A separate issue is that after a year and a half of dating, I expect to have conversations and dialogue that will determine our ability to handle a marriage together. He does not want to talk about these marriage-able issues and says he just wants to "wait". How can we determine if a marriage would work if he doesn't want to have the conversations needed in order to make a decision as to whether or not we would want to marry? <P>This issue and the church issue are factors that are causing me to lean toward<BR>moving on. However, there are many good aspects of our relationship that cause<BR>me to want to "hang in there" as he says he<BR>does want marriage in the end but yet won't have conversations that will lead to making that decision. Seems pretty weird to me. I'm trying to be patient, but to me, a year and a half is long enough. In your<BR>opinion, how long should ADULTS date before making a decision to marry. I think a year and a half is long enough (plus knowing each<BR>other for five years as well). He disagrees. Is this just a stalling<BR>technique?<P>Additional side note: We have been intimate in the past but have taken this out of our relationship for the past eight months because of the Holy Spirit convicting us...we are being obedient in this area.<BR>I love him and want to express this within the bonds of marriage. I don't want to wait much longer as an adult for marriage. I love<BR>him and believe I would be marrying him for<BR>the right reasons and not just for the sake of just being married. Am I being unreasonable to push for marriage after a year and a half at the ages<BR>of 43 and 46? We both know what we want in a partner and seem to<BR>match the other's desires (unless there is something that he is not <BR>telling me...) <P>I am 43 and he is 46. We both have been married before. We're mature adults<BR>and really have no other problems in our relationship besides these two issues. <BR>Am I waiting in vain or are there a few questions that could be asked without<BR>seeming to be demanding or pushy? Am I wrong for wanting to discuss marriage issues at this time in our relationship?<P>I've never seen these in your questions. I hope to hear from you soon. It is tearing our relationship apart. Thank you for your time.<P><P>------------------<BR>

<BR>I can understand your wanting to talk about marriage, especially that you are in a serious relationship.<BR>But I have a question what are his reasons for not wanting to discuss marriage?Does he has fears that need to be addressed?Do you think he is ready for that commitment?<P>I believe that age is not a reason to get married but both partners have to be ready for it at the time.So listen to him carefully, and address his issues to marriage before you push it.Time will tell when you are both ready and you will both know it.<P>I believe you want to get married to someone who wants to get married to you as much as you want to get married to them.And you wanna wait if they think they want to wait because then those issued can be solved before you tie the knot.<P>Talk it over and listen to each and address whatever issues you have and then you can talk about marriage.<P>I hope that helps somewhat.<P>Maxini.<P><BR><P>------------------<BR>they that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength

Reply to Maxini: Thanks for your response.<BR>I have asked these questions before and he<BR>just says he doesn't want to talk about it<BR>right now but will not give a definite<BR>answer. I understand his fears as I have<BR>some of my own. We have been through a<BR>lot together and separately in the last five<BR>years. I believe it is time to make a<BR>decision about where our relationship is<BR>headed or move on. <P>You did not give any response regarding the<BR>church issue. What is your take on that<BR>subject?<P><P>------------------<BR>

Hi Veronica-<P>I really think you've answered your own question:<P>"I don't want to attend separate churches. It is my #1 desire to have a relationship where we attend church together."<P>If this is what is absolutely most important to you in a relationship, and this relationship isn't fulfilling that desire, it may well be time to move on. However, I understand your reluctance to throw away a relationship which has many wonderful qualities as well, so it's only natural to consider the alternatives. You could attend his church, which you don't want to do because you want to attend with your children and don't want your children to have to switch churches as well. Again, understandable. So, why can't he attend your church? I get the impression this is what you consider the best option, and I agree it makes sense "on paper" so to speak... You state "there is no reason for him to not compromise and attend my church..." Be careful! This is what's called a Love Buster! There IS a reason for him not to compromise - actually, there are several! He's happy with his church, has been going there for more than ten years, and likes his pastor. For you, the deciding factor is your children and their needs. Very commendable. But recognize that just because there's no children to uproot on his side of the equation, doesn't mean your boyfriend himself won't feel uprooted. If he's happy in his church home, it may be just as difficult for him to switch as it would be for your children to do so. Yes, he's a grown man, and adults need to learn to handle change, but religion is obviously important in both your lives so I'm sure you can appreciate how deeply personal his religious life is, and how personal decisions about it can be.<P>I don't mean this to sound rude - I'm trying to be helpful, in my own little way - but it seems you're using the word "compromise" a little too loosely. It's not a compromise for him to attend your church, although you say it would be; actually, it's 100% "your way" while a true compromise is an edited version of what each person wants which contains pieces of both individuals' desires. It seems your boyfriend has put in at least some effort to make you happy, he did attend your church with you once but decided he preferred his own. <P>Alternatively, a compromise can be "100% your way now, and 100% my way later (or on some other issue now)." Is the latter what you had in mind, that he would attend your church until your kids are grown and then you would return with him to his? How about a different approach? From my outside perspective, it sounds like the best option might be to continue to attend your own churches, but to "mix" activities when possible (since completely separate church attendance goes against what you so strongly desire) What I was thinking was something like this: perhaps you each attend Sunday worship services at your own church, then, during the week, you could attend a Bible study at his church, the next week he attends a fellowship circle at yours. Your children could go with you to weekday activities, or perhaps they'll have their own Youth Group activities (or soccer lessons) to attend during that time, and you wouldn't be with them anyway. You can also grow spiritually as a couple by praying together at home, sharing your thoughts on your Bible reading, and reminding each other of all the wonderful ways God is working in your lives.<P>In the end, I think it comes down to this: how strongly do you feel that shared church attendance is really your #1 desire? If you strongly feel this, then this relationship simply isn't a good fit.

Dear Veronica -<P>If it helps any, my wife and I went thru a similar discussion before we got married. <P>The issue in that case was that she was/is Catholic and I am/am Lutheran. Does not sound very serious, but there were lots of related issues, since her family refused to attend the wedding (!) if we were not married in a Catholic church and I refused to promise to raise my children Catholic. Our compromise was<P> - having both a Catholic priest and a Lutheran minister celebrate the wedding, and <BR> - alternate attending Catholic and Lutheran churches on alternate Sundays. <P>My 'compromise' on our children was to promise to raise them within the Catholic church 'as much as my conscience would allow'. It wasn't very far, I am afraid, as both of my children are baptized outside the Catholic church. We now attend a Lutheran church full time. <P>My wife is perfectly fine with this, after we decided (fortunately) that the issue was mostly with her family and not with either of us. We are both what C.S.Lewis refers to as 'mere Christians', that is, we do not consider doctrinal differences between different versions of Christianity as important enough to argue about. <P>Another step we considered was one you may want to discuss. We considered both becoming members of another denomination (Espiscopal, in our case). We tried it, but neither of us liked it, so we settled on the way we are now doing it (and have been for the last twelve years or so - we recently celebrated our 18th anniversary). <P>Whether or not this is a serious enough issue to break up with your boyfriend over, only the two of you can say. It is certainly a good place to start on your Policy of Joint Agreement. <P>One thing is not clear to me. You mention that your boyfriend will not 'compromise' on this issue. Is the compromise you suggested to him that he begin to attend your church? What did you agreee to give up in return for this? <P>It strikes me that you may want to consider how this looks from your boyfriend's point of view. What does he gain out of this in return for losing his church? If you are simply arguing that your church is better (for you and for your children), fine, but what agreement can you come to that both of you will feel good about? It seems that your boyfriend has reasons to value his current church that are as valid for him as yours are for your church. <P>I hope I am not offending you when I suggest that you try (very gently) to re-open the discussion with your boyfriend with the goal of trying to find out what would be good for both of you, and not with the goal of convincing him that your plan is right. It sounds as if that approach did not work. <P>I wouldn't say that your #1 desire should be that your husband go to the same church as you. I would rather say that your number 1 goal should be go into a marriage with the precedent and expectation that decisions as important as this one seems to be to you (and your boyfriend) be arrived at together, and resolved so that everyone feels like they won.<P>Regards,<BR>rs0522

Thank you so much to Maxini, Younglove and <BR>rs0522!! It was great to get an excellent<BR>response for my first time for a question.<BR>Cool! All three had comments of definite<BR>value and causing me to re-think the issues.<BR>Thank you for being able to identify with<BR>me about not throwing the relationship away<BR>but re-thinking the "compromising" issue<BR>about attending church together.<P>Love Buster - "got me!" Thanks for the<BR>definition of compromising. You're right.<BR>I would not be compromising if he came to<BR>my church. I wasn't thinking correctly.<BR>My thinking has been since I have been<BR>compromising in other "issues", then maybe<BR>he could compromise in "this" issue,<BR>instead of making this a singular issue<BR>that we both gave in a little together...<BR>so that was my frame of reference. But<BR>you are right...and I thank you for your<BR>gentle reminder. <P>We have discussed attending church together<BR>when I am not on the worship team or he is<BR>not on the serving team and attend together<BR>on those Sundays when neither of us were on<BR>a team. Problem is...they never coincide<BR>together to where we are not on a team on<BR>the same Sunday. That's why it is such a<BR>difficult problem to resolve. When he<BR>devoutly says, "I don't want to go to your<BR>church", it causes me to reconsider what I<BR>mean to him. Aren't I worth a little <BR>compromising? I compromise for him, even<BR>on this issue. <P>What makes it really difficult is that this<BR>particular issue has been of significant<BR>heartache for over a year. I had not<BR>understood for over three years why he did<BR>not want to attend together until he<BR>recently told me that I "embarrassed" him<BR>as he was in the middle of a conversation<BR>with someone over three years ago when I<BR>walked up to him to say hello for just a<BR>moment and then walked away. We were not<BR>dating at the time but I wanted to say <BR>at least a hello so I made the attempt to<BR>just touch base to say hello, realized he<BR>was in a conversation and then left,<BR>I felt appropriately. He felt I was rude<BR>(should not have interrupted anyway!!!)<BR>and was embarrassed. <P>Well, finally telling me this after three<BR>years, is kind of silly. I didn't think<BR>it was a big deal, but in his opinion, it<BR>was a big deal. <P>I do understand that he would be missing<BR>his pastor and being fed spiritually and<BR>suggested the same things that were even<BR>suggested to me about different Sundays<BR>and Wednesdays. He still refuses to attend<BR>together and is not open to discussing this<BR>any longer. It is because of his actual<BR>unwillingness that really bothers me.<BR>A couple should, in my opinion, be attending<BR>and worshipping God together, not <BR>separately. It's cool to go to both<BR>churches, I say, but he won't even go at<BR>all. <P>At one point a few months ago, I was ready<BR>to walk out on the relationship because of<BR>this issue. He then said when we were not<BR>on a worship or serving team, then we could<BR>go together. It is 80% of the time that<BR>we are on team with 20% opportunity and 0%<BR>actually attending together. It causes me<BR>to feel like he is just stalling but then<BR>it never happens. <P>Just like stalling conversation for <BR>"marriage-able" issues, trying to figure<BR>out if we can handle a marriage together,<BR>but the conversations never happen.<P>Anyway, I was not offended by any of the<BR>responses received and took them to heart.<BR>I really appreciated the comment, "re-open<BR>the discussion with the goal of trying to<BR>find out what would be good for both of you,<BR>and not with the goal of convincing him<BR>that your ("my") plan was right. Great<BR>point! Thank you so much. <P>Also, "number one goal should be to arrive<BR>at decisions together". <P>It just seems that 98% of our relationship<BR>has to go his way or not at all which <BR>causes me to "fight" for an important issue<BR>as it involves my children's spirituality.<BR>However, I do understand his issue as well.<P>Becoming members of a different church was<BR>a different option. However, "if it ain't<BR>broke, don't fix it" quote comes to mind,<BR>which leaves us with the two churches,<BR>which is okay with me. <P>He is a "control" kind of guy and it makes<BR>it difficult to deal with a lot of the <BR>time. I hope we can resolve this together<BR>and appreciate your responses immensely!<P>Veronica123<P>------------------<BR>