OK. This is wonderful information and a great<BR>way of creating and maintaining a terrific relationship. My guess is 90 percent of women would come across, believe, and practice these ideas on their own. They are relationship focused. Naturally. But where does one find a man who also believes in this way of living? Preferably, he's not a "retread" who found MB because his wife left in disgust and he's FINALLY "getting it." Seriously. A good, upbeat, forward-looking mature man who says "this is a wonderful idea and I want this, too." Where is he? Where are THEY??

WordVixen,<P>Well, I suppose looking on a marriage site probably won't turn up many eligible men. <G><P>A couple of things in your post really jumped out at me.<P>The first is, what is it that makes you assume women do this "naturally"? If you look around the posts in this board I think you may find this preconception is way off base.<P>Second, I wonder what your adversion to a "retread" is all about. I don't know where you gained all the knowledge you have about life, but I got mine from living it.<P>This life knowledge includes such things as not jumping off the garage, (learned at age 6) up to respecting my partners needs regardless of my point of view on a given subject. (Still learning)<P>To put it into perspective, it's like saying, I want a brand new surgon to do my operation, not one that has made mistakes or ever lost a patient. And oh yeah, I want the new surgon to have all the skill and experiance as one that has learned from his past.<P>One last though, where are they? "They" are all around you, they may just need a little encouragement and partner willing to be open to their needs too.<P>You get pretty much what you give.

Thanks, CG. You're right: looking on a "marriage site" WON'T turn up many/any eligible men, : ) but I hoped to maybe provoke a thought or two among the guys who come through here. Even the so-called "retreads." <BR> Maybe all women don't seek out a relationship and closeness "naturally," but more of them *seem* to than the men I've come across in my 40+ years. I guess I've met too many guys who build their lives to include a "wife/relationship" box that they claim they do want to fill but, once filled with a live human being, they think they can put it in a drawer and the contents will "keep" with no care or attention. <BR> As to the "retread" and my wariness -- not outright aversion, really -- I'll admit I'm a tad low on trust and belief right now that anyone who's been a rat, a cad, or "simply" neglectful could or would come around and want better/be better. How do you judge sincerity and contrition and a changed heart? How many years of a "clean" track record after they've screwed up do you demand as "proof"? No, I don't want a newly-graduated surgeon to do my brain surgery, but I'd like to know that if and when a guy who's been through the School of Hard Knocks with the Heart says he can and will put us first and spend time and take good care of us and me, he's not just saying it in order to get sex or fill that box he'll put in the drawer or that he's just saying the right thing until he finds something else -- like work -- that he really wants to do. I've had one divorce. I don't ever want another. That's why the thought occurred to seek out like-minded men who really believe in the MB way. I know there are no guarantees but there sure are a lot of people who don't tell the truth about what they're really seeking or willing to do and have no intention of having a real relationship. <BR>

Dear word,<P>I think the best way to find a man who will embrace MB concepts is to find a decent man and then introduce him to MB. If he replies that all that relationship stuff is hoey you will immediately know it is time to move on. If he embraces the MB concepts your relationship before and after marriage will be all the better!!<P>Mud <><

Good points, Mudder.<BR>As I said up higher, I know there are NO guarantees. Problem is, I've been fooled before -- met an agreeable young man who married me, professing to believe in relationship priority, UNTIL we moved to Silicon Valley and he veered off into the World of 90-hour work weeks and constant travel. Ten years after the move and total immersion in this highly toxic and dysfunctional atmosphere -- and with 2 rounds of counseling behind us and refusal by him to change or move to a more sane place -- he said he "finally realized" that he'd made a "huge mistake" in "even trying to think" that he was "any good" at relationships and asked me to accept him as a "shallow, superficial" man -- who, frankly, really couldn't be bothered with trying to learn how to have a good marriage. Work, not me, not us, gave him the buzz he really wanted<BR>I appreciate the truth, but I don't want to learn it AFTER the wedding. Not even 10 minutes after. Certainly not 17 years later. How do you discern the truth in a case like this? My idea of true romance is not an enforceable prenup predicated on a huge pay-out if he "changes his mind" about his devotion to our couplehood. As if that'd even work.