I have kind of an interesting situation, and I suppose what I'm really looking for is someone to help me put into words what I am feeling and how to help my relationship.
I have been seeing this man for about 8 months, and while I know that's not a really long time, it's a lot longer than a lot of my friends made it before taking the big marriage step. We are not sleeping together, and do not intend to before marriage. This is where my first frustration comes in. When we are intimate with each other I feel a very strong emotional connection, but we try to keep that to a minimum so as not to slip up. How do I find a way to get that kind of love out of him when we aren't physically intimate at all?
Also, I live alone, and he has roomates, so we spend most of our time at my house. We are practically living together except that he goes home to sleep, shower and dress. His food is all here, and he hangs out here when I am at work. I don't mind it for the most part, and I enjoy spending my days with him. It's just hard for me to ...well...see here's where I can't put my finger on what bothers me about the set up. Help!
Another thing is that we are talking more about marriage. Only he doesn't feel ready. But he says that he does want to do it. So should I just be more patient? I am ready to move on with my life, and don't want to waste time in a relationship that isn't good.
I know this is a bit jumbled, but any advice or insight to help me see things more clearly would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!!

My wife and I faced the same problem. We’ve been married for 2 ½ years now. We are both Christians and believe that God designed physical intimacy of sex for two people who make the marriage commitment before him and others. When you unit yourself with another person you become one flesh (Genesis 2:24, 1 Corinthians 6:16). If that union is broken there is a separation of that flesh. In an emotional sense, when flesh is torn there is a wound that takes time to heal, and a scar is left behind.

So I commend you for abstaining for sexual relations. Though the sexual acts may feel good at first it will only cause problems. Get to know the person first and foremost, if the relationship is based on attraction or feelings alone know that physical appearance changes with age and feelings always go though ups and downs. That is why commitment must take place, and marriage is a sign of that commitment.

Become friends and establish that relationship before moving too quickly into the intimate settings. Have fun, smile, laugh, talk about your feelings, beliefs, family, opinions, etc. Having him move his stuff in is dangerous; you are establishing a more permanent relationship before it should be. If you do marry it is more manageable, but if you do separate it is that much more traumatic for the both of you.

I did the same thing with my wife. I was living with other people and she wasn’t. I spent most my time over at her place and I even had my own key. I also kept stuff over there. Spending too much time alone with her at her place made me feel like it was my home too. We were alone so much that it put us into situations of too much compromise. Our relationship was much better before we allowed ourselves to compromise. We didn’t “do it” before marriage but we went way too far too many times. And it was always when we were alone together in her home.

Don’t mistake intimacy with affection. Intimacy can be dangerous when attempting to establish it when you are alone. It is a good idea to go out on dates, and be in public places. Affections are established and emotional connections made beyond that of physical compromise.

We made the mistake of moving too fast too soon. Be careful of trying to have marital feelings for someone you aren’t married to. Feelings of love for that person is good, that is why you are together. But seeking solely for that feeling and that “very strong emotional connection” is intended for husband and wife. Obtaining that connection before marriage leads to strong wounds if that relationship is ended. And problems occurred from it. If I could do it all over again, I wouldn’t have let myself compromise so much. But it’s always easier said then done.

This is just my advice; I’m not a professional councilor or anything. Hope this was helpful.

- James

<small>[ July 28, 2003, 10:56 AM: Message edited by: Shino ]</small>

First off, I am pro-premarital sex for the sake of determining compatibility and getting to know each other better...because sex is really important to relationships. Second, I have no desire to convince you that you should have premarital sex.

While abstaining can have its benefits, just make sure you don't move toward marriage BECAUSE you desire that intimacy. While sex is important to marriage, there is far too much more to determine about your ability to have
a happy, successful marriage BEFORE you marry.

It might even help you to read through a lengthy thread that I started--different situations, but might be helpful for you.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=0
17121

Smile <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

No offence but that’s lame. It doesn’t take a genius to know if you are compatible in sex… Ummmmm one has a hole and the other something to put in that hole. Wow, that one was tough. If there are any irregularities then I think that can be discussed verbally. “Honey, I’m 50” big and not sure I can fit”. Come on already….

Yes, getting to know them better… um ya, how much thrusting up and down does it take to really know a person? Sex is a desire of the flesh; marriage is the desire of the heart for giving and taking. Compatibility in sex is almost a given, compatibility in the rest of a relationship is the hard part and needs the most attention.

As said earlier uniting yourself to another person makes you one flesh, make sure you want to be one with someone forever before making that plunge.

Sorry for the sarcasm, I’m tired and I’m sick of hearing the lame excuse of compatibility for having sex before marriage.
- James

Shino, as you read more and more in this forum, you will find a lot of marriages that have fallen apart because couples are not sexually compatible.

Here is an example from a current thread:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=017149

I honestly don't know if they had sex before marriage, but I can tell you for sure that there is more to sexual compatibility than fitting a peg in a hole. For some people, simply discussing wants and needs may be enough because for them sex is not very important, but for most people, if SF needs are not being met, the problem will catch up to them.

Shino...there is no need for anger in this forum. Your opinion was welcome, but the harsh tone is not necessary to express your point of view.

Clarakitty...I hope you were able to look at my POV with a little more objectivity. The only reason I brought that up was for you to give it thought because of your frustration, not to try to convince you of anything.'

Good luck.

Smile

There are no guarantees in life. Well, death and taxes are the exception. But happiness and success are not guaranteed.

However, many Christian counselors find that there is a higher success ratio for couples who abstain from sex than for those who don't abstain. And that the success ratio for couples who cohabitate drops even more.

When you say you are intimate but not having intercourse, what do you mean? I ask this not because I want to know - as that is not my business - but because you need to consider whether you are actually sexually active short of penile penetration or whether you are actually using significant self-control.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So should I just be more patient? I am ready to move on with my life, and don't want to waste time in a relationship that isn't good. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think this is more important than the sex issue. The reason I brought the sex issue up was to say that I think you should be careful that you don't marry as a result of high sexual frustration...don't let that be a pressure or determining factor or you may ignore far more important issues.

What you said above is bothering to me. Do you mean that you don't want to waste time in a relationship that doesn't lead to marriage? I had a BF that did this to me once...I was only 20, so good riddance if that was how he felt. I wasn't going to tell him I wanted to eventually get married at that age.
You said "good"...if you are still trying to determine if the relationship is "good", then please don't pressure this man to get married.
My opinion is that you should be more patient. If he is not ready, than you two as a unit are not ready.
Btw, how old are the both of you?

Smile

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> No offence but that&#8217;s lame. It doesn&#8217;t take a genius to know if you are compatible in sex&#8230; Ummmmm one has a hole and the other something to put in that hole. Wow, that one was tough. If there are any irregularities then I think that can be discussed verbally. &#8220;Honey, I&#8217;m 50&#8221; big and not sure I can fit&#8221;. Come on already&#8230;. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is an overly simplistic view of sex that ignores the totality of how people express themselves sexually and the level of emotion that they associate with it.

Your wedding night is not the time to find out that your H cannot get an erection without you dancing naked in a cowgirl hat and spurs. This is an extreme example but it illustrates a point. We've seen people out here with a fetish that is killing their spouse's love for them.

I'm not advocating premarital sex. I'm not saying don't do it. What I am saying is to know each other sexually and discuss it. What is your idea of a healthy sex life? What do you find erotic? What turns you on?

Again, your wedding night is a very poor time to figure out that your spouse thinks foreplay is watching a XXX movie together.

<small>[ July 30, 2003, 08:36 AM: Message edited by: *Takola* ]</small>

In my honest opinion, My wife and I strongy believed in no sex before marriage. Well... easier said than done. I don't know how some people do it, but after 6 months going out there was no way we could wait. We had stromg feelings toward each other and yes we broke our original belief and oh well that's that, but 4.5 years later we got married.

You shouldn't feel ashamed if you do that before marriage. We weren't, and we originally wanted to wait, but you have no idea how strong the feelings are and your heart and mind tell you that it's time. There's no explaining why, it just does and it feels like it's right.

Welcome Clara,

Whether or not you have sex before marriage is your decision as a couple. (No matter what definition for 'sex' you use.) FYI my husband and I dated for a year before getting engaged and it was another year before we got married. We firmly believe that if a couple isn't sure about getting married then they shouldn't get married until they are sure.

Another thing is that we are talking more about marriage. Only he doesn't feel ready. But he says that he does want to do it. So should I just be more patient? I am ready to move on with my life, and don't want to waste time in a relationship that isn't good.

Here's the part that rings alarm bells for me. You want to get married. He isn't ready yet. Why do you want to marry him? You are ready to move on? Why do you want to marry him if you aren't sure if the relationship is good and you are ready to move on? Marriage doesn't fix already existing relationship problems.

*********************************
Hi Ben! Welcome back. How are you and your wife?

Hi Clarakitty,

Sorry to say, but if he is not ready for marriage, then it isn't time. It will be your choice if you want to take the chance and wait (not knowing if it will happen) or to move on. How do you truly feel about him? How does he truly feel about you? Those may be some things you need to look into. The arguments/differences usually begin at about 8 months, if you can get through those like mature adults, and continue to love one another, you have a good chance of making it. I don't have any time-lines, but usually you know after about a year where the relationship is headed, if it lasts that long.

Sent with Love, Ladysheep

Hi everyone,
I would like to say thanks for all of your responses, they really gave me a lot to think about and helped me find some clarity. Things are going well between us right now, we just got back from visiting my parents for a week and it was a great trip.
I've done a lot of thinking about the situation and have come up with a few things. First, the biggest problem is my lack of patience I think. He has made it clear that his intention is to get married, probably within the year, and I think he is just saving up to buy me a great ring and do something special for our engagement. I just get frustrated sometimes because, well, for us the relationship has gone as far as it can go as boyfriend girlfriend, marriage is the ovbious next step in both of our lives, and we are both ready to make that step now I think. I have talked to him about his whole not being ready thing, and it was more that there were a lot of things about marriage that he just hadn't thought about. He is getting ready though, and just needs time to get his finances in order.
About the whole sex before marriage issue, I had no idea it would spark such controversy! To those who are concerned about my not being compatible, a few months ago things went too far in the "non-penitration" way, and from that experience and some past experiences I know that we will be just fine on our wedding night, which will be when we have intercourse for the first time. It's not an question in our minds, we want to wait and that's that. As you can imagine though it can be really hard, trying to keep yourself in check when you are so in love and devoted to another person. I know a lot of people don't understand the waiting thing, and I guess that's okay, but for me, I want it to be special, and only with him.
I do have one more question to post to the forum, and it is again a sensitive subject. My boyfriend is not fat, but could stand to lose maybe 10-15 lbs. He mentions that he wants to frequently, but doesn't do much about it. He is not the type to just go work out at a gym, he preferrs playing sports, but there isn't much opportunity for it here. We go rollerblading together sometimes, but Im' not as good as him so he doesn't get much of a work out. I would really like to see him lose the weight and develope a healthier lifestyle, because healthis raelly important to me. I just don't know how to bring it up and help him change his eating habits with out hurting his feelings. What do you think the best way to do it would be??
Thanks again for all your help. You guys are awesome!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Clarakitty...I'm happy to hear they you two are communicating about this a little better. That's wonderful.
I think the best thing you could do right now for your future marriage is really learn the concepts in this web site. Devote the time together to filling out the questionnaires--this is not to see IF you are compatible, but to become even more open to conversation and hot topics regarding marriage. The EN questionnaire might also help you two open up about the weight issue.
You have found a great resource for improving your relationship and helping it continue to grow AND preparing for many of the often unavoidable pit falls in marriage. Nobody is perfect. The concepts and resources here have helped me and my BF immensely. He is suddenly much more comfortable talking about things like marriage and kids. The main things that we have learned is that we need to really be who we are now...no games, trying to impress each other or anything else that we don't think we can maintain for the rest of our lives. We need to be incredibly honest with not just each other, but more importantly with ourselves. Marriage is going to change our social status. We'll combine our money. There will be lots of details along those lines, but we want to know now what we are up against as far as habits, annoying behaviors, coping skills, and true expectations. There will be enough surprises without constantly finding out new things that could have been addressed earlier.

Good luck to you and your fiance.
I wish you the best.
Smile

What does your husband do for a living? I used to build decks and wash windows until I could get into my career goal, which is computers. Now that I have my office job I sit at the desk all day. I was about 150 pounds and now 170 pounds. And it is all going to the same spot :-)

With the long hours and stressful situations I get home drained and not feeling active. All I want to do is relax my brain and body. But my wife always wants to go do active things (which is good). I do the rollerblading thing with her and the occasional biking. In the same sense as with the two of you I slow my pace so it is a more casual stride. Before I would fly though the woods on my bike as fast as I could go.

My point? Well, depending on what you do all day long your body may adjust to being weaker. Keeping up with activity when that’s not what you do all day can be hard. When you do active things your body is in shock and wonders what you are trying to do to it. Changing the junk you eat is important but it takes energy to create energy. Finding an activity to do together is good, but it may not be a bad idea if he can do something on his own or with friends. That would help keeping his pace faster. My wife goes running in the mornings with her uncle. Also I tried Tae Bo and that seemed to make me feel more alert, it’s sticking with it that is hard. He needs to find a routine otherwise it’s just icing on the surface.

As far as breaking it to him that you’d like him thinner I’m not sure how to help. It depends on his personality (ego). My wife tends to say what she thinks without assessing the feelings I may have about it or trying to soften her words. You may want to try a better approach, but don’t let it go. If you harbor feelings before marriage and wait to share them after - it will be harder for the both of you. Physical attractiveness is an emotional need, and if you have that need it must be addressed. As he gets older and depending on his genes he is most likely going to expand rather than shrink :-)

- James