Ok. So I'm 21 years old and I've been with my boyfriend who is 29 years old, for about 4 years. He's proposed to me a couple of times. The first time he asked me to marry him i was certain that i wanted to marry him whereas now, 3 years later, I am not really sure what i want. This guy IS occassionally great and super sweet with me. However, it seems that my list of complaints about him is longer than my list of pluses of him. I hate the fact that my boyfriend stares and practically drools over every single woman that walks by us when we're out and about. Not only does my boyfriend stare at females that look the complete oppsite of me, but he also later comes back to me and tells me that he thinks i am beautiful. Well gosh-darnit if staring at other women is the way he proves my beauty he is sure proving it. I've asked him repeatedly to stop staring at other women when he's with me because i think it's rude and disrespectful that he does so and it simply ruins whatever romance is left in our "dates." I feel horrible when he's holding my hand and looking over another girl at the same time. I have asked him to stop yet he claims that i am simply overly-jealous and that he doesn't know what i am talking about when i mention that he stares. What's worse about the issue is that his staring is so bad that even my friends have all noticed and asked what's up with this guy.
Not only that but whenever a blonde approaches him or asks him something he tends to be "extra" sweet and helpful with that person, whereas if a less "attractive" person approaches him he tends to not be as nice.
Not only that, but i also don't trust my boyfriend. I've told him this before and he simply says that i am completely irrational and that he doesn't think he's ever done anything for me not to trust him. Another problem with my boyfriend derives from his family who is not only nosey but who also thinks that i am not "pretty enough." Another problem that I find in my boyfriend is that he can be pretty cold at times, in fact, he can be so cold that i practically have to beg him for a hug. I am a very affectionate person and i understand that people have different ways of showing their affection but I've repeatedly asked my boyfriend to make an effort to hug me more but he still doesn't.
In any case, I've opened this topic because i don't know what to do. Is his staring, which has now bothered me for four years, enough for me to break-up with him? Like i said there are some sweet things about him but... I don't know. I can't imagine myself living the rest of my life with a man that not only stares at every blonde in the room, but a man who also denies doing so and a man that claims i am simply "overly-jealous." What do you guys think? Is this a problem that can be resolved through counseling or should i stop hoping that his annoying habit improves someday within the next ten years?
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Should I marry him??

Ok. So I'm 21 years old and I've been with my boyfriend who is 29 years old, for about 4 years.
No. A 25 year old going out with a 17 year old?
You need to be with someone closer to your own maturity level.

Plus if you look at your post with the 125 “complaints” about him, you should see that you really don’t want to anyway.

What he is now is what he will be when married. Don’t expect marriage to somehow make him “different”.

Hmmmm..interesting dilemma....since he knows you find this annoying...and he knows it..it might be wise to have a heart to heart with him...and let him know in no uncertain terms that thisd is really jeopardizing your relationship with him..but I would be non-threatening..i.e. tellhim it is painful for you for him to act like this....if he doesn't "get the picture"..I would prove my point by telling him you will walk if this continues...but do not say it unless you are really going to back it up...I certainly do not think marrying him will improve this bad habit...in fact marriage may amplify this habit to you...you need to make him think about what it YOU really want...

Dear Gregg,

I actually have tried sitting down with him and having a heart to heart conversation but my attempts have been futile. As soon as I mention that something is bothering me he starts saying that i am attacking him, this no matter what tone or facial expression i have while trying to speak to him. He doesn't let me get any of my points across; as soon as i mention something about whatever is bothering me he goes into an awkward mode where he becomes very emotional, that is, in between tears and anger. By that point in time I feel so bad about the mood my trying to talk to him causes him, that I start asking HIM for forgiveness and start trying to tell him that everything is my fault... Thus, my attempts at communicating with him are usually horrible. Not only that, but when i try telling that I think the staring is disrespectful to me he simply calls me an "extremely jealous" person.

He sounds just like my XH. Gawking at all the girls, then turning the arguments about it to it being MY problem....ugh!

My advice is to not marry him, because I know from experience that the kind of behaviour you describe does not change just because there is a ring on a man's finger. At 21 you have years yet to find a compatible mate, and if I were you, I would move on.

You sound like you are hurting now....imagine this kind of hurt ten years down the track, with maybe a couple of 'flings' on his part and you with a couple of kids to leave with. Nope, I suggest you cut your losses now.

Sorry for being so negative, but as I said, he sounds just like my X, and so I speak from experience.

Love and light,

Nina

I feel very protective of you in a fatherly sort of way, as you are the same age as my daughter. Trust me, this guy is a wolf in sheep's clothing. You have your whole life ahead of you. There are many other, more worthy, sheep in the pasture. You deserve better. Beware!

My former wayward husband made the comment that my complaining about his flirtatious behavior when we were dating merely drove him underground...sneaking serious flirtations behind my back. So, in your case--even if he responds by no longer ogling women in your presence, that doesn't mean that he has had the necessary heart change. He will still be ogling them in his heart AND when you are not present, and that will eventually lead to bigger problems. Trust, love, boundary and respect issues need to be discussed on a deep level, and frankly that seems unlikely with this man given his current difficulties with effective communication. I say, listen to the warning bell in your heart, and make purposeful decisions regarding your future rather than not rocking the boat and settling.

Dear Elmorules,

Why do you want to marry him? I don't ask this sarcastically. Make a list of the reasons you want to marry him.

I don't think your decision to marry rests on his annoying habit. Whoever you marry will have annoying habits. The problem is that this annoying habit represents much bigger problems. You've listed several very important issues that come down to trust, respect, and compatibility. It sounds like you came here to find reassurance that these issues are important and the lack of each of them is reason to not marry. I think you've been reassured.

Please don't feel trapped into this relationship. You were so young when you met him, and you are still very young to be feeling this kind of pressure. This is the time that you should be out making YOU a good, strong, reliable person...not him. This is the time that you should be making lots of friends, going on dates, discovering your talents, etc. This is YOUR time. Take advantage of it now because when you do finally marry, it will be much more difficult to work on YOU.

I'm pretty sure you know what needs to happen here. You need to take care of yourself. Right now, you have plenty of time to have fun while learning what really makes you tick.

If you marry this man, you will lose out on this special time in your life. You will not have a chance to learn what it is that you do want...you will only find the things you don't want. You've learned a lot about this in this relationship. This relationship has been a success because it has helped you grow...use that in the future. You didn't fail at all. You now know that you want someone who is more honest, respectful, reliable, and interested in YOU. You should expect these things in your future husband. Be happy that you've learned these things about yourself and realize there is still a lot more to learn and it may take several different relationships before you are ready for marriage.

Good luck. Take advantage of this web site...the concepts are wonderful and you'll definitely learn a lot.

Smile

<small>[ September 18, 2003, 11:44 AM: Message edited by: SmileADay ]</small>

I am a total innocent to the board... in fact, this will be my first post. I just wanted to offer my humble opinion, and do with it what you like.

I was also proposed to at a very young age, and I was so anxious (naive?) to believe in the power of love that I fell right into it. We got married, and I then had our first child 9 months later. He had his first affair while I was pregnant. I forgave, things were better, then I found out about another affair. We seperated, I was filing for divorce, found out I was pregnant with my second daughter, and reconciled. (Before you start thinking those thoughts, yes, I know what causes that, but I somehow managed to get pregnant twice on the pill. I'm surprised I haven't been killed by a stampeding giraffe or something with those odds.) Anyway, two weeks after my baby was born, he told me that he had joined the Army, and was leaving in three days. Still, I stayed. I still had some stupid notion that our marriage could somehow be saved... at the very least for the sake of our kids. My defining moment was when, while overseas, he called home and was talking about the abundance of prostitutes, and how they were legal there. When asked if he thought I should be okay with that, he replied, "Well honey, what do you expect me to do? I'm going to be gone for a year." Yup... defining moment.

It was then that I realized he was never going to change. I understand, of course, that your boyfriend is probably not near as extreme a case, but I do see many similarities in their attitudes. Also, the paragraph above is the extremely condensed version... there isn't enough time in the world to go through the whole sordid thing here. I am now divorced from the lyin' cheatin' sack of s**t, and am dating someone new. Things with him are up and down, but I am bound and determined not to make the same mistakes as I did the first time around.

I guess that's the point of this post... not that I'm getting there quickly. I'm sorry, it's just been one of those days here at work, and my mind is racing faster than my fingers can type. - Don't do it. If you have even the smallest sliver of a doubt, which you very obviously do, don't marry him. Trust me, you do not want to be here in one, two, or three years trying to save your marriage because of problems that were never fixed before. The problems you have now will not go away, and will get worse given time. No matter how much you love each other, love is not enough. I'm not saying love isn't important... in fact, it's the only factor that seperates a marriage from all other relationships, but it's not enough. It doesn't matter how much you change, or how much of a "Betty Crocker" you become, or what color your hair is (even blonde), he will not change until he realizes that there is something wrong with the way he is acting, and knows that in order to keep you, he has to work with you. If he isn't willing to do that before the marriage, wht makes you think he's going to do it after?

Elmorules,

I just happened to read your post. You are young and there should be no hurry to marry. You have mentioned some very serious things. The gawking is not good, but beyond that, the way he is invalidating your feelings about it is really not good. From what I read, it sounds as if he lacks a humility. Rather than listen to your concerns, he has made you feel bad as if it is your "problem" that you are upset that he is gawking. Now, EVEN IF you were being overly sensitive about it... well, for him to "demand" trust and to say that you are "attacking" him, etc. These things will only make you feel bad as if you have a problem and then you will take blame for your "problem", thus taking the focus off of his.

Not sure if that makes sense, but let me tell you... a bad marriage is FAR worse than being single!! And what's even worse is having a bad marriage and then going through a divorce. I can't tell you the pain involved, but it's awful.

The things you mention... that he doesn't let you get points across, that he demands trust, that even your friends notice his gawking... well, I wouldn't take those too lightly.

I think it would be wise if you two broke up for awhile. You are not married, so it's okay. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> But I'm sure it'd be hard, BUT it might give him the opportunity to think about his behavior that bothers you and then to think about if he is willing to change to save his relationship with you. If he's not willing to hear you out and if he continues to "scapegoat" you, I would not marry him. If you were already married, I'd give you different advice.

Listen to the advice you are receiving here. It all sounds pretty good and is given from people who've been through bad marriages and divorce! Believe me, you don't want either!

James Dobson says, "Better to be single and wish you were married than married and wish you were single." Amen to that!!

I also wonder about a 25 yr. old man dating a 17 year old girl???

<small>[ September 18, 2003, 09:44 PM: Message edited by: LoveMyEx ]</small>

I really want to thank you all for your help.
You guys must be wondering why I've stood by this guy for such a long time if it seems that I have a severe tendency to complain about him, right? See, here's the thing. Yes, he's always had the staring problem. It's gotten a little bit better over time and I guess that's why I've stayed with him. I mean, I've let time pass by in hope that maybe one day he'll appreciate me enough and to the point that he doesn't have to stare at other girls as if he were a bachelor in search of a relationship.
Another reason why I haven't left him is because I am scared to do so. This guy is perfect for me in some ways and he does many things (positive things) that other guys i've met don't do. I am scared of leaving him because i feel that if i do, i will always wonder if he really was "the one" and that I might end up regreting having given him up. I mean, I know that this guy loves me but i guess that he doesn't love me enough to change his annoying habits. I don't know. This probably makes no sense to any of you out there but thank you for all of your help. I'm just really scared that by being with him I am wasting precious time during which i could meet that other person that will simply sweep me off of my feet, but at the same time, I am also worried that by leaving him I'll lose him forever and never find another guy out there and thus live the rest of my life in regret...

Once again, I'm going to subject you to my opinions, and again, you may do with them what you like.

The biggest red flag I saw in your entire post was when you said, "One day he'll appreciate me enough..." Darlin, the one thing I've learned through the thousands I've spent on therapy is that it is not about you. He will never "appreciate you enough"... he has to change on his own- for him, and nobody else. I always thought that if I cleaned more, or cooked better, and became the "perfect" wife, that he would have to see what a treasure I was and appreciate me for that. Yeah... not so much.

Another thing that stuck out for me- when you said "I guess he doesn't love me enough to change"... again, your putting it on yourself and not on him where it belongs. Change is a personal issue, and a personal goal. It's not subject to a group vote, unfortunately. None of this has anything to do with love, or the lack thereof. If he is not willing to change, that is his shortcoming, and not yours.

You say he's perfect for you, and provides things for you that nobody else can. That's great, really. But, (you knew that 'but' was coming) if what he is not providing for you is something you can't live without, then that should be your answer. A friend and I discussed this the other day, and as a joke, we compared it to fishing. They give us just enough line to go out and swim around and start to think that we might be okay on our own, then they start reeling it back in by doing something nice. It actually takes very little to keep most women satisfied... a random email, a candy bar from the gas station, etc. So they do something nice that's just enough to keep us hanging on, hoping for more. Now, just to clarify, I don't believe it's a malicious thing, and I'm sure they don't sit around and plan it all out- but it's just funny how they instinctivly know how far they can push us.

I really don't mean to sound preachy here, honestly. It just really butters my biscuit to see how many people are put through the same living hell all the time, and women are offenders too, believe it or not. One last thing before I go though, and then I'll leave you alone. You said that you don't want to look back and regret giving him up, and you don't want to always wonder if he was the "one." Well, I don't know if I'm alone in this, but I've never stopped loving my ex-husband. I will always wonder, especially as my girls get older and ask questions, if things could have somehow been made right. Now does that mean that I regret leaving? NO. One of my favorite quotes is, "In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about life- it goes on." It does go on, and in order to be happy, we choose whether we're going to look back with regret or forward with hope. Happiness is a choice that requires effort sometimes. I am no longer naive enough to believe in Prince Charming coming to sweep me off my feet, but I won't stop believing that there is someone out there who can be what I need. I would rather be divorced and single than have to give up that dream.

Hi elmorules. I very much want to respond to your thread because it addresses something I went through when I was your age (before my M). But I need to know your answer to one question first (and I think it was already asked):

Why do you want to marry him?

You gave us a good answer about why you stayed with him - but not why you want to marry him....

I just don't want to give bogus advice or perspective if there is something I am missing!!!

PS - and listen to Sugar_Mag - she is a very bright and insightful woman......with a lot of experience behind her. If you are able to truly take her words to heart, you may just be able to decide what you need to do.....

Hello all,
I am 26 yrsold and I am getting married 2/26/05. My guy and I have been together for almost 7 years and this will be our 3rd attempt at marriage. Every other time it has been him not being ready and calling it off, then running back to me. Stupid me has taken him back, LOVE, go figure. Anyway, he is a very selfish, very hard to have an adult conversation with, but I cannot see my life with out him,, and he says the same about me. There are somethings that I need to know before we get married. I try and talk to him about things like setting a time frame for when we would both be comfortable starting a family, he says he wants one when he can afford it, thing is he doesnt have a full time job, he has a business that BARELY makes its bills so we couldnt live off of it. I however have a good paying job. (off subject) I am trying to great an answer from him as to how long he is going to do what he is doing, and how long he is going to live BROKE until he gets a real job and wants a family, mind you I had to wait almost 7 years for the marriage commitment how long will I have to wait for him to get off his tuff and get ready for kids. Am i wrong in wanted some kind of commitment timeline before I marry him. I cannot wait 7 more years for him to be ready. How can I talk to him with out him starting WW3 again and again, which happens everytime i broch this subject. AM I WRONG, should I marry him with out knowing and just take it one day at a time, even if I am ready now to have kids.. HELP please

If you somehow think you can "rescue" him, or that somehow marrying him will make your life "easier" (or I would even submit remotely better or happier), you are sorely mistaken. If you think that marrying him because "He's all the things I am not", or "he completes me", you have a very unrealistic expectation of marriage.

Let's see, you can't have an adult conversation now, what's it going to be like when you're married, and there's a significant problem, and you're much more involved in the consequences for his actions (think potentially financially), or you finally have kids and have some kind of conflict over parenting.


Do you think that somehow all that stuff will just disappear, and that he'll become your knight in shining armor, and all will be forgiven and forgotten?

You're dreaming.

Marriage is *hard*. It's much more work than dating. It takes 2 emotionally healthy people to make a marraige work. Not two broken ones. 2 broken people entering a marraige makes for a broken marriage.

I would encourage you to spend some time over in the emotional needs section, and the divorceing/divorced section, and read the kazillion stories of women at the end of their rope because the men feel like they're being attacked whenever they speak and so on. How no matter what they try, they can't seem to reach their spouses. How their miserable relationships are making them physically sick. How things were all rosy in the beginning, and after the honeymoon they started being treated like dirt. And how the H's refuse to help or change.

And I bet if you read some of these stories, you're going to see some intersting parallels with your proposed H. And you know what? There's not some guardian angel sitting over the top of the relationship saying "*this* one is special, it will be different". The pattern will continue to repeat.

If that doesn't scare the bejeebers out of you, then go ahead, marry him, we'll see you back in a few months as you try to figure out how to salvage a disaster.

Let's see, what's the number one marriage killer? Poor communication. What's number 2? Finances. Hmmm, the top 2 destroyer of marriages, and both of these apply to you and your proposed H. WHat makes your love so special that "the band's gonna make it, this time, it'll work"?

He can't even have an "adult conversation", (your words), with the woman that he's proposing to love honor and cherish to the exclusion of all else? And this, in the middle of the puppy-dog romantic gushy love stage? And you think he's going to get *better* after the bloom is off the rose?

And then, to top it all of, you're going to bring children in to this dysfunction? So they can learn what? What not to do by example? Do as I don't say, not as I do do? OK girls, whenyou're looking for a husband, don't marry one like this? OK sons, make sure you find a girlfriend that lets you walk all over her and treat her like crap. And of course son, any time a girl talks to you, she' being completely unreasonable and attacking you... These are the examples you want to set for your children?

You should listen to your username, and run like the wind. And don't stop until you find somebody who truly values you as a person. That respects what you have to say, and what you feel. That treasures you above and beyond any and all other things. Now with that, you can build a relationship that will be the envy of everyone.