Hello my wife and I just married on 10/23. I have two children from a previous marriage that are 16,17 (almost 18)...both are going to college. My wife is 27 and I am 43...we have been together for almost 3 years.

Our life was a lifestyle of fun, hope and promise...we just purchased a new house, one great for entertaining and had begun to plan our marital bliss. Disaster has now struck...some of you may think I'm crazy but for me it is a disaster...an unplanned pregnancy.

Please understand I'm ok with having more children as was my brides wish but I wanted more time with her alone before having another child. My first two were surprises...the 16 year old was forced upon me by my ex. I really do mean forced upon me by the way...I love my children and I share custody 50/50 and am they live with me 50% of the time.

After having it happen that way before I have real feelings of being decieved again on top of the fact that I just don't want another child now! I've been through this before and I know what will come...I'm losing my best friend and she has no idea on how it will affect our lives...I have two kids to get through college now. I do most of the paying of bills around here and I know it will get tight...I'm angry...frustrated...and have a feeling that this damage being done to our relationship will be unrepairable. We have discussed abortion however I don't want to force my feelings on her and I question myself where life begins...I'm prochoice...so is she but it's a choice I'd rather not make. I'm stuck...and feel very trapped, no decision is good and I wish for something awful...which is horrible and I know it...Some of you may just say roll with the punches, grow up...that's what you get for marrying someone younger than you...Please understand I feel duped again...she says it was an accident (if I had know I would have done things differently...beleive me...for years I suffered from not concluding the act inside a woman because of my fears) We have been to a counselor and she just looks at me with the faces...the same faces that women of my age give me when they hear...the serves you right faces. I'm angry and wish I could stop...I love her and just want to hold her and break down the feelings that I'm having...but just the word baby makes me recoil right now. I'm more informed about whats going to happen in the next few years and nothing I can say will make her understand...It's happened again and there is nothing I can do about it...help me break out of this...

You may be older than your W, but obviously, not a lot wiser. YOu knew the risks, accident or not, so I think you have an obligation to work *together* with your W to make it work.

It's not all doom and gloom, and you don't really know wha'ts going to happen. YOu have projected your feelings of doom and gloom on to the situation, w/o seemingly taken the same amount of effort to approach the situation positively.

So this is your first big marriage crisis. It will be the metric by which other crises in your M will be measured. Are you a cut and run kind of guy? Or are you going to partner with your W, tackle the problem head on, and build a relationship and a new family that will be a testament to you and yours?

Your feelings are valid, although I don't quite understand feeling deceived, if it was an accident, how were you deceived? Are you perhaps more upset with yourself over allowing it to happen in the first place? Or is it a feeling tha tsomehow your life is out of control? YOu can't control your W's pregnancy, so you're angry about it?

But in any case, it seems like you have to make a decision. THat doesn't have anything to do with your W, but has everything to do with you.

You are correct that the decision is mine and I'm struggling with it...

The deception was finding the pill pack with two weeks not taken...not two days...her words..." a couple of days"

She claims she was using another packet...trying to adjust her schedule...I'm clueless on this one...

Your constructive comments were appreciated your insult was not, however expected. Unless you have been put in this situation as a father or that this has happened to you before you can't understand or appreciate the emotions.

I'm not sure what you perceive as the insult. I don't think anything I said was untrue. You are much older than your W. The relationship may even be perceived as more Father/Daughter. You even mention that yourself, in that "you are more informed" than your W, by implication, your age, and having been through raising children before.

However, being older doesn't necessarily mean wiser. Younger men than you have made mistakes, knocked up their W's and GF's unexpectedly, you're in the same boat.

So you may think you know what's going to happen in the future, based on your "increased wisdom, due to age", but it is not necessarily so.

Such is life.

But regardless of the reason, you are still stuck with a choice. YOu can choose the path of bitterness, the path of anger, the path of resentment, which is *guaranteed* to destroy your relationship with your W, whom you profess to love.

Or, you can step back, take a deep breath, realize that life just tossed you a curve, and start figuring out how to deal with it. Certainly, one of the things you will have to deal with is the violation of trust with your W. Contrary to what you may think I think, I don't disagree with you that what she did was not right (assuming she's not telling the truth, as unlikely as that may be). I think it's a big violation of trust. it hink that it will take effort on *both* your parts to restore trust.

She may not even yet realize how she did violate your trust, so the road may even be more complex than you think.

But you also have to look at the example you set for your other children, and to your W. Because everything you do and say in this situation will color their thinking and their judgement. Choose wisely, and you will gain respect. Choose poorly, and you may lose out in more relationships than just the one with your W.

There's no question that your relationship with your W will pay for this situation for some time. Forgiveness will not be easy, nor necessarily immediate.

Another thing to keep in mind is that you can't change your W. So trying to manipulate your W by "logic", or "reason", or "anger", or "passive-agressive" behavior, or any one of another zillion techniques for manipulating people will not do anything constructive to your relationship. So give up trying to "make her understand". If she thought the same way you did from the beginning, it wouldn't be an issue in the first place. But trying to convince her of the wrongness of her position, may only give you the result that she becomes more entrenched in hers, leaving you both at an impasse.

Remember that for all the feelings you may have of anger or resentment, she also has feelings about what's happened, and hers are just as valid as yours. You don't get to judge the "rationality" of what she feels, and she doesn't get to do the same to you. What you feel is what you feel.

What would be your feeling about the issue if it truly was an accident? I mean, no method of BC other than not having sex is perfect, so it's not outside the realm of possibility that had your W done everything, she wouldn't still be pregnant.

SO how responsible for the character shortcoming of your W is your unborn child?

I guess the ultimate question is, "what are you wanting"? YOu feel angry and resentful that your wife betrayed your trust to use birth control, you must want something. What is that?

Im a man and if I were you Id feel the same way, decieved, cheated and lied to. Could you tell her to get the abortion now and later you two will have a baby that she wants? but then look. I bet you never wanted another baby but she did, right? You wanted her in your life so you mouthed some weak thing about later you would have a baby together even though in your heart you were done having kids werent you? so you maybe decieved her by saying you wanted children. To be honest with her would have been to say you were done raising your oldest kids and did not want to raise any more.

See if you can get her to have an abortion now and then put her on the depo shot every four months. It is more sure than the pill which women have control over. Some women cant remember to take a pill everyday. And if a woman is heavy, the pill wont even work.

Now then if you get her to abort, you have two other issues to face. First her lying to you and commiting that bad act creating a child without you even knowing it. I do not know how cold and how much of a liar a woman has to be to do this type of thing. Buddies of mine had this done to them and it is a terrible act. Her lying act is one thing and you need to see if she lies in other ways too.

The other issue is your lie that you told her about wanting to have children with her. You need to come clean to her and tell her you dread having any more kids and if she wants kids maybe you are not the right person for her. Your marriage is so new, for you to lie to her and her to use you to create a child is really upsetting. If these things are happening so soon, what will the marriage be like in the future and how much more will she lie to get her way on stuff. Good luck man.

Thanks for understanding...

I do want a child again...I do want to plan for that day and hear the happy news. I just don't want one so soon.

I would like some clarity on this though...Intrying to get her schedule right, can you change from week to week on birth control packs...is this correct?

I want to believe it was an accident but my doubts are still there.

I'm not sure I would want her to consider abortion, because it would be for my considerations, and mine alone...not to mention the "where does life begin moralities"

What do I want from this...maybe it's just venting...maybe some understanding...although I know that may reinforce feelings of negativity, I really am stuck and maybe this "open mike" will help me.

I read whenever you switch packs, you have to use condoms or backup BC to protect. Why did she switch brands again? There is no use to switch unless there was some problem and she should have told you about it.

So really, you're not looking for advice, or any suggestions on how to handle this unexpected development, more to the point, just somebody to commiserate with, and tell you that your W is a horrible person, and to justify your rage and anger.

I'm glad you ran into Buck then, I think he's your guy.

Because it's very interesting during this whole discussion, it's all about you, you, you, and not one speck about what your W feels. No desire or expression of desire to share with your W what she feels. Just how everything affects you. How it upsets your plans. As if somehow, it's only your wishes and desires that matter, and not your W's.

Yes, if your W did it on purpose, it is a tragedy. Yes, it's a violation of trust, yes, trust will need to be rebuilt. Yes, rebuilding trust isn't easy. But if your life is so scripted and so regimented, that it cannot flex at all to handle this, what are you goign to do when something serious shows up? An affair, or major health crisis, or any one of a number of things that can be just as chaotic, if not more so than a baby?


So then if your response is to somehow force your wife to have an abortion, is this somehow going to make you even? She violated your trust, so you get to return the favor? Is this going to be the pattern by which complicated situations are resolved? Out of a sense of vindictiveness and revenge? And is this the foundation on which you want to build your marriage?

It seems like pretty shaky ground.

No,

I'm not wanting to force an Abortion and when she brought it up I realized how against it she was and dismissed it. My thoughts have been about her...but most importantly about us. Am I looking for comraderie? ...no...

It would be so easy for me to say the things you (Jayne) are pointing out...however all I can say is I'm working on it...read my posts again and drop your predelictions.

I don't have any predilections.

I hear you say what *you* think about the situation. All good. I hear you say what *you* want. No problem there.

But what I don't hear or see is any description of where you've sat down, taken your W in hand, and said, "Look, I'm really frustrated and angry with this unexpected pregnancy. I feel angry and betrayed that it appears that you deceived me into this pregnancy. Here's what I am wanting, (fill in the blank), What do you want?".

And then, What did *she* say? Yes, you've mentioned how she's told you she was switching BC, but that's not the problem, the problem is the unplanned pregnancy. If she'd switched BC, and nothing had happened, none of this would be an issue.

SO the issue is the unplanned pregnancy, which *could've* happened, even with *perfect* Birth control.

What does *she* think about what you've said about how difficult it will be? What does *she* think about the complexities of raising children in this unexpected situation? What does *she* think about how she expects to restore trust in the relationship? What does *she* think about the situation in terms of it being a violation of trust?

Help us help you find some middle ground.

Because if she doesn't see it that way (and assuming she was being deceptive in the first place), then you have bigger problems in your relationship than just an unplanned pregnancy.

Perhaps you have not asked your W these questions, or didnt' really hear her answers. Perhaps your W is too afraid to speak freely about what she really feels, because she doesn't feel safe, because she knows you're angry and upset.

I have read your posts, several times. I have agreed with you in almost every aspect that the situation is rife with bad juju. I have spent significant time weighing what I said before I said it. (And btw, I'm a guy, just like you. Married, just like you. Almost your age, so we're not too far off).

I am not your enemy, and I have no agenda here, beyond seeing broken relationships healed.

You can choose to answer questions that might allow me to help you, as I have worked through significant anger issues in the past, and have had some measure of success with others. Or you can continue to avoid the questions, and hope somebody else comes along that will tell you whatever it is that you want to hear.

Yes, if you just want to express rage, Buck's your guy..lots of anger there. But, I think you DO want more than that, or I doubt you'd be posting. I would guess you have a lot of different feelings to hash thru.

Life is strange, isn't it? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I see you saying that you don't want to force her to have an abortion, which is good. I see that part of your upset is worry about finances, part is concern for losing the "couple time" you'd looked forward to. All those are very reasonable things to be concerned over...our first also came along sooner than expected, and I remember both those concerns; we'd been married 3 years by then, but I still wasn't quite ready to give up being just the two of us.

And then there is your fear that maybe it wasn't totally an accident...that's a big thing to work thru. That's certainly a fear you and she should discuss. I think Jay's questions to you are right on the mark...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What does *she* think about what you've said about how difficult it will be? What does *she* think about the complexities of raising children in this unexpected situation? What does *she* think about how she expects to restore trust in the relationship? What does *she* think about the situation in terms of it being a violation of trust?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Esp. since you say that you do want to be a father again, albeit not this soon, I hope you guys can work thru the trust issues and get past this. Good luck--

Kathi

<small>[ February 21, 2005, 04:54 PM: Message edited by: kam6318 ]</small>

Hey Notagain,
Let me tell you a personal story. Before me and my XW married she had an abortion. I think it was ALWAYS looming in our minds throughout our entire marriage. I also felt like I somehow talked her into doing it and felt trumendous guilt. I asked her for forgiveness.I don't feel like you should be upset at her being pregnant as much as you need to address the mistrust issue. Our last child was somewhat of a surprise to us and after his birth I had a visectomy to insure there were no more surprises.Besides, we both agreed that 3 was all we wanted cause this last one really took a toll on her.I felt a whole lot more at ease being intimate after that. I am not trying to talk you into anything, but...I believe EVERY child is a blessing from God. Let me ask you...What you gonna do with your blessing?

I want to thank everyone for the input. Jaye, I owe you an apology. Her therapist, the counselor we discussed this issue with came down on me pretty hard...seeming like a very bitter divorced woman who found joy in the older man "getting what he deserves" vis a vis My ex-wife's view. A history check by the way...we were married for 17 years and mutually decided to divorce.

Jaye, rereading what you said from a different perspective ...so to speak...did make me stop and think.

There are two fact that I cannot overlook. First I don't know if I could live with myself influencing her to terminate the pregancy. As I have stated we are both pro-choice only because we feel it is too personal decision for our governments to make. So...that being off the table how do I deal with my feelings of mistrust and anger. I really don't believe she did this on purpose however it was irresponsible...so...accidents happen and I have to forgive her...I know she is sorry and this wasn't her idea of the "right" time either. I think I coming to grips there.

The second issue is how do I feel knowing this was a mistake and regaining an issue of trust to take care of things...Not birth control...other daily issues...like bills and child care. I have tremendous concerns that I will be saddled with all the additional monetary responsiblites. Remember all we are just married and have yet to hash out all the financial implications of our union. I have done well but that does not mean we or mostly I can afford two children in college and now a baby on the way. She still has trouble balancing her checkbook so how can I expect help in this regard. This troubles me and maybe where my much of my anger and frustration is coming from. I'm concerned on how it will all spread out and being the man it's our duty to make sure our family's are taken care of...I may get nailed for saying that however it's the way our generation was brought up.
If a man can't provide for his family he is a failure.
I still have to make sure that the two I have are covered and now one more...guys...I'm concered...and just buying this brand new big house...shheeesh...now I'm scared. OK...so now I know I will have to get her to understand the value of having to make do...that will be tough.

After our discussions last night and today at lunch she has again volunteered to terminate the pregnancy. My wants and what makes fiscal and rational sense is something I never want to influence her with...in my heart of hearts I know we are not ready for this...but I don't think we have a choice...morally and because of the guilt she will feel, and I will have been the one that brought her to it. Tough calls...

I am trying to put myself in a place to look forward to this occiasion however it's difficult. I do like that my kids will get a chance to be at home sharing in the "joy". (before they go to college) I do see that as wonderful, but other than that...I struggle. I am a bit of a peter pan...I know that and was really looking forward to enjoying our lives on fancy for a while longer. As you can still see I'm torn between doing what's right morally, doing what's right for her, doing what's right for us, and doing what I want. The last part of that sentance is what I struggle with the most. I am working on all of this...please bear with me...we are communicating no matter how painful it may be.

It's me again...

I reread my post and see inconsistencies...please understand this is a work in progress.

Not to answer some questions on her part...she does want the child, she knows it was a mistake however it is too painfull for her to terminate. She knows how I feel...and I do feel like an [censored], however then we get back to my resentment...then my wants...then my fears...
I know she didn't get herself into this situation alone...I did have a hand in it so to speak...and I want to make her happy...it's just a struggle...sorry for the repost but there was more.

I have to learn to proof my posts...

"Now to" instead of "Not to"

I applaud your improvement wrt point 1.

As to finances and such, life always has these little curves, unless you have a pipeline to some hidden wealth, Finances will always be a concern, but really, babies aren't that expensive. And perhaps there are other options wrt paying for your kids college. Perhaps a little more of the burden will have to shift to them.

I will take exception to your comment that if a man fails to provide for his family, he is a failure. You may believe that, but I wonder what the belief is rooted in? I mean, one way to point out the difficulty with the belief is to set the standard high. If you don't provide a 80 zillion dollar home, and drive a different new car every day, are you a failure? Not in any conventional sense that I can see.

So you just bought a new house. Perhaps the cars get driven an extra couple years. Maybe a big new house just isn't in the cards anymore, and moving to something more modest is the only thing that fits.

And really, barring waiting several more years for kids, as when your oldest are out of college, when did you think you were goin to start a family? At 50? be almost 70 when your kid gets out of highschool? You may not even live long enough to see that one get through college.

At least now, you'll have some time to spend with him/her as an adult.

It seems like you're pretty focused on what you're going to lose. How about switching it around to what you're going to gain? A new son or daughter. Maybe twins! That's gotta offset hosting a few dinner parties or a new car. The tremendous opportunity to bring a new life in to the world, and help it become the best thing it can be. (As if somehow dickering dollars for babies should really be a choice).

Ultimately, I'd rather live in a cabin with a family surrounding me, than live in a mansion at expense of 1. But that's me.

And I guess for the sake of thoroughness, have you asked your oldest kids what they think about the potential sacrifice they may have to make, in order for you to support your new child? They may be more than ready, willing, and able...

posted February 21, 2005 04:44 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, if you just want to express rage, Buck's your guy..lots of anger there. But, I think you DO want more than that, or I doubt you'd be posting. I would guess you have a lot of different feelings to hash thru.

you edited this to try and soften the DJ. but the DJ is still there. this poor man has the right to have every point of view before he figures out what to do for himself and his family and he is almost there now. he has the right to vent out his feelings also. to say that one persons point of view is hateful or good or bad is a huge DJ. Kam, you are a well respected poster here on MB and I thought you did not do DJ's to others or thier ideas here on this board? Arent you past all that?

<small>[ February 22, 2005, 05:51 AM: Message edited by: lifeisstrange ]</small>

I have no idea of what a DJ is....

At any rate, Jaye you and I are worlds apart in our thoughts and conceptions. Your thoughts of the log cabin are great and I wish you much success with your neighbor Mr. Kassinsky.

Last nite when I got home about 8:00 from being on the road for more the 16 hours, I got an emergency call from my son my daughter was in an auto accident. She's okay just shaken up. We were at the emergency room till 1:00 am.

My new wife couldn't be there because she was afraid of what the emergency room might give her and the new baby...

This just makes me start my feelings of anger all over again and why we are not ready. We used to do everything together, now she doesn't even come to the hospital when my daughter is on a back brace. Life is strange...and all I can think about is thank gosh for a prenup. I take care of my resposibilites, so don't worry, however I see where all this is leading.

disrespectful judgement. is a DJ. and no kids are not cheap. they cost 250K to raise to age 17. not counting your time and energy. thank goodness you have a prenup.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by notagain43:
<strong>
She's okay just shaken up. We were at the emergency room till 1:00 am.
</strong>

That is good news that she's OK.

<strong>
My new wife couldn't be there because she was afraid of what the emergency room might give her and the new baby...
</strong>

I don't understand this.

<strong>
This just makes me start my feelings of anger all over again and why we are not ready. We used to do everything together, now she doesn't even come to the hospital when my daughter is on a back brace. </strong>

This reveals a bit more info. Is there tension or angst between your family and your W? Blended families are an extra special situation, requiring even more effort to make function. Do they accept your W?

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