I am the betrayer in this situtation. I betrayed my Husband once a year and half ago, and 10 years ago, before we were married. I never told him about the one ten years ago, until the one recently (1 1/2 years ago) came out. He knows every tiny little detail there is to know about each affair, and he still wants to talk about everyday and just about every waking moment. He has not forgiven me and says he never will.<P>The problem is, he wants me to bring up the subject to talk about this. I just dont know how. I hurt him and everytime we talk about it, it hurts him and me, so I avoid bringing it up. If he brings it up, I will tak about it, but I cant bring myself to start a conversation about it. I dont know where to go with it. I dont know what to talk about. He is getting very angry with me, because I cannot bring it up.<P>Does anyone have any advice or help in how to bring up "the subject". I want to please him, but I just dont know how to talk about it anymore. Everyday I think about what can i talk about that has not already been talked about, there isnt anything. He knows everything, right down to the nitty gritty of the affairs ( or the parts of the one 10 yeas ago I can remember).<P>Please any help would be greatly appreciated.<P>Thanks

Dawn - my wife is the betrayer, so I am in your husband's shoes. I too want to talk about her affair a lot. I do not have the nitty gritty details, but I'm coming to understand that they are not as important as I once thought. The details are the things that hurt, while talking about your marriage, the good times, the hopes you have for the future...these things will go a long way towards helping your husband. I speak from experience, he probably needs contant reassurance that things will be O.K....I know I do! If he is like me, his self confidence is in the toilet right now. My advice is to try and create a time to sit down (without interruptions) and talk about the things I mentioned above. If he starts on the details, you might say "I don't think talking about those details is going to help our marriage, but maybe we can talk about our feelings about.....". Good luck!

Dawn,<P>I think MJINGIT has it right. It sounds to me that he is trying to ask you for something without admitting that he needs it. He does not want to force you say things he will have trouble believing. Does this make sense?<P>Let me give you an example. He may want to know that you are thinking about the marriage especially in light of the affairs. He probably wants to know if you love him. If you had to do it over again that you would not have had the affairs. That you feel remorse for the affairs. Things like that. You probably have told him these things but only in the context of the conversations that he started.<P>If you were to start a conversation with him by saying for example " You know I have been thinking a lot about us and how really sorry/guilty I feel for what I have done, is there any way you can forgive me? I really need this from you. " Now you don't have to say those words and I don't know what words to tell you since I don't know much about where you and your H are in the healing process but it sure sounds like he needs reassuring. Have you looked at Harley's His Need/Your Needs? Have you looked at length at the information on this board?<P>I hope you understand what I am saying. Your H's self-esteem is probably near zero. He may feel he "won" by default and that all things being equal you would be gone. The fact that you are still in the marriage sometimes does not get rid of those feelings.<P>The discussion can be of the affair in the context of healing the both of you and not about reopening old wounds. It can be about your future together and what you have learned from the affair. But mostly I think he wants to get in touch with you. You probably feel guilt and hopefully remorse and that it is responsibility to address this when he needs to. You should take a low profile. He probably feels that if you are truely sorry, that you should be trying to help him heal. In a sense you both are caring for each other, but not meeting each others needs. Take a chance initate the discussions, but see if you can make it a positive thing for both of you.<P>Think about it.

DAWN:<P>You sound like my wife. She betrayed me eight months ago and she's a CLASSIC conflict avoider. I used to be like your H and want HER to bring it up. It was because I felt like if she didn't bring it up, she wasn't thinking about it, and to me, that meant it wasn't bothering her like it bothered me. There was a time when I thought about it ALL the time.<P>Here's what SHE did to help me. Every week or so, she asks me if everything's okay. She literally says "Is everything okay? Are you okay with us and with the situation?" Those are our code words. I know that if she asks me that, I have to tell her YES I'm fine or NO I'm not fine. And if I'm not fine, we talk about what's bothering me.<P>At least this way, I know that she's concerned. She may not say "This or that has been bothering me about my affair. Let's talk about it," but she at least cues me in on the fact that occasionally it still bothers her. <P>I would be dollars to donuts that your H really wants you to bring it up because he wants to know that YOU are suffering and thinking about it just like he is. Try to be sensitive to that and every now and then ask him if "everything's okay."<P>I guarantee you'll notice a difference.<P>------------------<BR>/// Lone Star * ///<P>