The words that I have been waiting for have finally come. At 0455 this morning my phone rang, It was my Wife from LA. ( visiting her parents for Thankgiving ) She went on about how she realizes how selfish she was and has been and now is ready to commit to our marriage and do what ever it takes to make it work.<P>I was in shock!!!! She says she has been feeling this way for about a month and has been waiting to make sure it was really wants she wants. She felt that now was the right time before any more damage could be done.<P>Here is my problem..... She still is not willing to discuss her relationship with her current "Friend". She is willing never to see or speak with him again as of right now. I know they have been physical to an extent, She says not sexual. She will not tell me when was the last time. The way she makes it sound, It could have been very recent. Should I let this go???? Is it too much to ask??? Is it too much too soon?? I feel the need to know how she could be with him as close as last week but have had these feeling of coming home for a month. This confuses me. <P>She did say that she did a lot of the stuff to hurt me and drive me away because she felt I deserved someone better. That was her way of setting me free..... even though that is not what she really wanted.<P>We have agreed to go slow, No plans of her moving home yet, Joint Counseling will begin when she returns from LA. Also agreed to spend more time together and to see only each other and commited to trying to make this work........ I am so scared.<P>How do we proceed?????? Help......<P><P>------------------<BR>Rutger......One day at a time.<P><BR>

Oh Rutger...you lucky man!!! I would so love to hear my H say that he wanted to come home. Think long and hard about what you want and expect from her. She is reaching out her hand and heart to you...you sound like you want to accept them....my thoughts and prayers are with you that you will do what is in your heart.<P><P>------------------<BR>God Bless you and yours,<P>Sheryl W.<BR>

Think very hard about whether or not to have her move home. I got very different advice. Some siad yes , have her move home, how can you work on your marriage if she is away.<P>Some said no, she moved away for selfish reasons, did the relationship end and now is she coming home because she doesn't want to be alone.<P>My stbx told me in the middle of our fight that she asked to come home and I said no and that we might have worked it all out. well it never happened that way. She TOLD me she would move home and live out of the guest room.<P>I think it is a good sign that your w did tell she wanted to come home and work on things. I would let the recent contact stuff go, that would be a love buster if you bring that up. REmember she was addicted to thsi guy so the physical stuff is a part of that.<P>BEst of luck and God Bless

Rutger - This is good!! - even though you don't trust it yet. Let her come home. It is so much more difficult to work on a marriage when your spouse is gone. Her request to come home must mean she wants to work on it; she realizes she made a mistake. I gather its only been a few weeks since she decided to give up the om.(my H wouldn't tell me when it ended either) Tell her you want her home to make your marriage the best it can be. (since I don't know the extent of her affair I don't know if you will have to live with a corpse for awhile - although her initiating her return sounds positive, she may still be a bit conflicted) It is too soon to talk about the op except for laying down some conditions for her return - ie. no contact. I say its too soon because here I am eight months since disclosure (ten months since he said he was leaving) and asking and answering questions is far from over. I still don't have a clear picture of what his affair was, how long it was or how it started and, more importantly, ended. Tomorrow in our counseling session we are going to finally talk - after eight months of resistance on his part and fear of pushing him away on my part. For the first time, yesterday H said he finally sees how cruel he has been to not help me through this; that it was selfish for him to totally control the extent of our discussions about his affair. I am still scared about what I will learn but at the same time find his willingness to talk and be honest is what I crave, more than the answers now. So I guess what I am saying is for now you have to "let it go". Having my H back has been more important than the answers - maybe we are finally at a place where we feel safe enough to talk about it. For now your wife probably also needs to feel she can trust you - that you believe her promise to not contact the op again. For now you may only need to know it was ended with some finality, no room for doubt about it being rekindled. Maybe you should tell her that at some point in your recovery you will probably want to talk about it but can wait. I'm hoping for happiness for you two.<BR> Simone

hi rutger happy thanksgiving to you!! <BR>Hmmm, I guess I will take the usual step out toward the limb. I would let her come home if that is what she is asking for. She is reaching out, or she would not have called. It appears she needs help and she is turning to you for support and love. <BR>I believe in forgiveness. Even if she is not ready to talk about the affair/friend, she is ready to be with you. Why would you turn her away? Because she will not tell you the details? Ughhhh, you may really not need to hear them! That does not mean she should not talk about the problems she had and why she sought out the affair. <BR>Go slow friend, but I say let her come back. Maybe with some conditions that are reasonable (counseling, talking, needs, poja, rule of honesty, etc). <BR>When my h wanted me to pick him up after he had been gone, I hesitated. But then I figured what the heck....I managed to get it thru the initial heartbreak with my head intact. What was the worse that could happen to us? We would split. To me, it was worth the risk because I knew if that did happen I would be fine. You will make the right choice rutger.

Hi Rutger<BR>I vote nothing ventured nothing gained, you have gotten through all of this now, why not go the whole way its a lot easier to build you marriage together than apart, follow your heart, it won't lead you astray.<P>Jenny<P>------------------<BR>Where have all the cowboys gone ?<BR>Paula Cole<P><BR>

mitme,<BR>I have waited along time to hear her say that... I want her back with all my heart, But I guess I am still in shock. To me, This has come over night. To her, This was a month long process of her decision. I'm not sure what I want from her, I REALLY need her to reassure me that this is what she wants. I guess I was too used to hearing negative things that to finally hear this, Makes me doubt her. I know if she continues to show me that she is serious, Then my doubt will fade.<P>RWD,<BR>I know I have to let go of some stuff, That will fade. It's still so fresh..... I don't think she should move in right away until we get a plan. I think we both agree on that. We need professional help and its coming....<P>Simone,<BR>She is welcome in my life, I'm not sure about us living together again just yet. I want to seek couseling first, Get a few under our belt and see alot of each other. Then when thing start to feel good, We live together again. She knows about the no contact, She want to call him, I want her to write a letter. End it in pen and not verbally. For the time being, I can let some things go. I still feel that sweeping it under the rug and just forgetting about it is the wrong thing to do. We have to air it out and talk, Both of us.... We'll see what happens.<P>CL,<BR>I know she is reaching out, It took alot for her to call me and tell me this. I have to admit I am curious about her motives, She says because she loves me and wants to be my wife.... Is it that simple?? Maybe, I don't know. I guess I shouldn't look so deep into this right now, It is the first day of recovery...... I should just take it as a positive step toward being happy again.<P>Jenny,<BR>I know, Nothing ventured nothing gained... Hard to do with matters of the heart. My heart hasn't changed through this whole thing.... I love her more than anything. My head though, was getting used to being alone. Not that I liked it, But I grew to know that I would be ok alone. Don't get me wrong, I have missed her in some way every single day since we have been apart. I know I shouldn't expect too much too soon, And I am trying to take it slow. I guess I just have so much built up and it burst a little when she told me she wants to work on us...... Baby steps...... I'll try.

OK, my friend, here we go!!<P>Don't have but a second. Got to get ready for work, but I'll email you from there.<P>Good advice here. Take it slow. Take a million deep breaths!!<P>Talk to you in a bit!

Rutger -- <B>Holy cow!!!</B> I am <B>so</B> happy for you!!!!<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Should I let this go????<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Do what you feel is right, but I wouldn't want to know anything else.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>She is willing never to see or speak with him again as of right now.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>This above is the <B>really</B> important thing.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I feel the need to know<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Rutger, my friend, try to put this feeling aside for now. The answers may come as you work together and she feels more comfortable. What she has already told you is a wonderful gesture on her part. She is being upfront and honest. Excepting of course that part about OM timing, but the fact that she will agree not to see/talk to him is what you should be focused on.<P>I'm hiring you a set of cheerleaders right now and we're going to fill the stands with your fans and friends to show you how much we support you...<P>Remember your tagline.. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>One day at a time.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Rutger,<P>Hoooray! <P>You've got some good advice so far... and Lori's on her way...<P>Recovery isn't going to be a cakewalk...<BR>It is excellent that you are moving on the (no contact... break from OM) letter... but make sure <B>you do it with her</B>. Many wayward spouses think they should do it on there own...not involving the betrayed's input... and "keep the content 'secret'"... this is not good. Just a reminder from <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6070_sa.html" TARGET=_blank>"Surviving An Affair"</A> see pg. 58-59 for a short sample letter. And, get a mutal friend to deliver it!!!<P>Her withdrawal from OM will take time... usually at least one month... and much more time for her feelings to fade. Going back to Plan A during withdrawal will test your fortitude. Withdrawal from the OM... like from a chemical dependency is h@!!<P>The <B>extraordinary precautions</B> will have to be worked in there...<BR><OL TYPE=1> <BR><LI> Changing jobs / relocation? (? about your situation)<BR><LI> Blocking all communication (phone, email,pagers...) with the OM<BR><LI> Accounting for time<BR><LI> Accounting for money<BR><LI> Spending leisure time together<BR></OL><BR>... lovingly. And also, <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3500_policy.html" TARGET=_blank>The Policy of Joint Agreement(POJA)</A>... lovingly.<P>I am happy for you... <BR>Like so many others here... my W is not "coming home" yet... <BR>From your replies... you know what's ahead of you, and you have no illusion of an instant "live happily ever after" story... But you can start on that journey with hope...<P>Happy Thanksgiving, <P>Jim<BR>------------------<BR>I can dare myself... I'll put a pebble in my shoe...<BR>I can walk... I can walk! I shall call the pebble Dare...<BR>Dare shall be carried... And when we both have had enough<BR>I will take him from my shoe, singing... "Meet your new road!"...<BR>Finally glad... Finally glad... That you are here... By my side...

Hey Rutger,<P>This is great news. Good advice from all. My $.02 is to go slow and most of all DON'T ask for or expect to hear the details of what happened. I suspect that if allowed she will get to a point where she will tell you. It may take a long time, but i'm sure she realizes you have questions. Let the healing begin. God Bless.

Rutger, I am happy for you, the fact that she said she's been thinking about this for a month tells you that you are doing the right things and God is on your side. I know how important it is for you to know the information about the OP but for now I would put it aside. But I would probably say to her that eventually you are expecting something from her as far as information because it is something the two of you will need to discuss to get past. She will recognize this as that your not letting go of it but are putting it on the back burner. <BR>Either way though you do need to put it aside for now. God Bless!<P>------------------<BR>Chick's <BR>Bren<P>You won't see things until your ready to not be blind!<P><BR>

Rutger:<P>About time we saw these principles work for someone! <P>My vote: Let her come home with the condition of no contact. As far as the gory details, well, I've been very public in saying that I don't think they heal anything; they just continue the hurt. Focus on YOU and WIFE and THE FUTURE, NOT on OM and THE PAST.<P>Best of luck! What a happy holiday gift for you!

Lori,<BR>I await your reply.....<P>Heartpain,<BR>I know, HOLY COW. All I could say when she told me was WOW over and over, I know the fact that she is willing to give him up for me is huge. I only hope that she can stick to it. How does it go, Don't look a gift horse in the mouth?? Take her gestures as a start, I will. You made me laugh, I like cheerleaders...... and you guys are great support... Thank you<P>JIM,<BR>I will reread that part of the book. I'm not sure she is convinced on that yet, She thinks it would be rude to do it that way ( letter only ) To her, he is just a "friend" nothing more. To me, it is more and I guess I need closure more than she does. I keep thinking about the fact that she says she is willing to turn to me now.... good. That is what I wanted. I hope that she doesn't go through much of a withdrawl, She hasn't known him for that long ( 2-3 months ) We will be discussing all of the precautions in greater detail when she comes home, Shouldn't be too hard to do most of them. We have a long journey in front of us, With time and understanding I think we can make it... I know your Wife isn't coming home yet, But who knows what is around the corner. Have hope, Look what happen to me. Totally caught off guard ...... Thanks for your reply<P>nlitend and chicks,<BR>going slow...... She knows what I want to know. I told her I would stop asking for now. I guess we need to move forward. I come from the school of lets get it out now, While we are both so raw anyway, So it doesn't sneek up and bite us later. I'm working on that though..... I know this will be the start of some healing. It will just take time....... Thanks<P><BR><P>------------------<BR>Rutger......One day at a time.<P><BR>

Dazed and Confused,<BR>I still have a long way to go. I will continue to work with these principles. So far they seem to have worked and have made sense. Time to share all of it with her and see what she thinks.... I know, The future... Not the past. I'm working on it...... Thanks

hi rutger, regarding the final goodbye to the op...do you remember my story? The final goodbye was a disaster.<BR>H had become ill with std issues while still in asia, but ow had flown back to states a couple weeks before him. He had been treated there, but ineffectively. He arriaved back in the states and had a few days lay over in her city. We had talked on the phone and he ws not going to see her, he was going to call her and end the affair. Well guess what?? Not only did he see her, but she spent the days in his hotel, they had unprotected sex and he was reinfected. Needless to say when I picked him up he was quite ill. Physically and mentally. He said he really had no idea what came over him-he was sure that he could end it, and when she insisted on seeing him, he was sure it would be very easy to cut her off. Insanity? Yes, at that point the fantasy took over even with the disease factor thrown in.<BR>Scarey story? Yes, it is. Feel free to share with your wife if it would help her see that this is NOT the way to go. I vote for a business tone fax, no visible phone number.<BR>

Rutger - <P>I haven't posted in quite a while but I do continue to read. I am especially drawn to posts from you, Chris, RWD, and izzy among others. We all share the common trait where our W's left us for OM for a long time (I think Chris has the dubious honor of recordholder).<P>I am so happy for your turn of good fortune my friend. I think everyone here has given you great counsel. I would like to add, however, to remember the STD tests. Insist on them (obviously not right away but before any "unsafe" sex occurs between the two of you). However, you must get through the mental and emotional readjustment first.<P>Although I am extremely happy for you, I am very envious of you at the same time. My W is still in her fantasy apparently. The divorce train is still moving along. I've decided NOT to fight it anymore...I can't take this loneliness or emotional pain any longer. I certainly understand why you are scared...I sure as hell would be too if my W decided to show up on my doorstep. Mentally, I have already checked out of the marriage (I am beginning to think like a single person once again...however, I will NOT begin to date again until the final decree is issued). I have been tempted recently - a woman in my support group has shown an interest in me. Although it feels good, I will not succomb.<P>Rutger my man, please take it slow with your wife. I'm sure there will be times when you will just want to explode at her. Keep these inside of you and just show her love. Her love will be returned to you one thousand fold.<P>Oh how I wish that my wife would give me the opportunity to reconcile. I'm not saying that I would want to anymore, but just knowing that she realizes her mistake and is willing to work it out with me would go a long way. You have a God given and rare opportunity here Rutger. Show her your love...you won't be disappointed.<P>Good Luck and God Bless you and your wife. happy Thanksgiving.<P>------------------<BR>He who has a "why" to live for can bear with almost any "how".<P>-Nietzsche-

CL,<BR>I'm sorry for your nightmare. That is indeed mine as well. I can only tell her what I would like to see done, I have no control over her. If she wants to fill my needs then that is one of them, If she wants to make the marriage work, then she will write a letter instead. I wait to see what she will want to do. I fear as we are still not together that she will end up speaking with him before she returns from LA. This will be her test. I'm sure one of many for the both of us..... <P>Shattered,<BR>I, Like you, had not been posting for awhile. I was lurking only, I just felt like I had nothing to give. I was on the verge of giving up myself and trying to move on..... Even the ring came off, I just didn't feel married anymore. Then, WHAM!!! the phone call out of the blue. My head is still spinning. I think that is what is making this tough, the fact that I had almost given up. I had been trying to go to Plan B for a week or so. I wonder if she sensed it?? I guess all that doesn't matter anymore. She wants to try to make it work, I want to try as well. That is a start. I am sorry for you and what you are going through. You know that I know how you feel. I respect your decision on dating, It takes a strong person to do that. Good for you..... I promise to do my best not to screw this up, I will take it slow and control the outbursts. It will take time but I'm willing to try. Thank you my friend and take care.....<P>------------------<BR>Rutger......One day at a time.<P><BR>

Rutger,<P>HAPPY THANKSGIVING - a family be reunited and that is WONDERFUL news!<P>As many other have said - take it slow. Your wife will be totally overwhelmed when she comes home. It will feel WIERD for BOTH of you. Also she may not be ready for sex with you for awhile to come.<P>NSR, respectfully, I think the withdrawal will last a lot longer than one month. For me, it was as long as my EA lasted. And, that doesn't count for any setbacks or slipups.<P>Rutger, BOTH you and your W are FRAGILE at this juncture. I hope you and she get into counseling right away. It will provide the "safe" place for addressing many of the issues you will have to work out. The most important thing I think you can do at this point (sigh, more patience needed!) is to be supportive without appearing to need or deman anything from your W. I think I did a poor job of this when my H cam home between separation #1 and separation #2 (current). It is HARD not to get excited, hopeful,. expectant, disappointed and upset - all these feelings you will experience, but can't express too strongly. If you come on too strongly, she might get afaid of more "failure" and leave again.<P>BEST of luck!!!!<P>Roll Me Away

RMA,<BR>Thank you.... I hope we will both view this time as one of peace and healing. Sex.... Hmmm tough one, Sometimes thats all I think about other times, I don't care. It'll happen when it happens, No rush. But I guess I should give it some thought. I am not looking foreward to withdrawl, Can I effectively help her through that even if she isn't living here??? Couseling is coming, Soon..... I will try not to be demanding, excited, or other stuff. It's hard not to be though. I wonder what she is feeling????? Maybe I should ask.... Thanks for your thoughts.