I would appreciate any advice and tips from those who have controlling, critical personalities like mine whose H or W is going through withdrawal and are finding it very difficult to not show anger and resentment. <P>W and I are about 6 months into her withdrawal. I surprised her by not just leaving her when I discovered the affair in Feb. I spent the first month in shock and fearful over loosing her. Then I spent the next two months reading Harley’s Love Busting, His and Her Needs, and several other books on infidelity. I figured in the April to May timeframe, we would have this behind us and be working on Marriage building. She did some lying about having stopped contact and in about June, agreed to really stop. Not until then did she really go into withdrawal. Then in July, my impatience and my Taker started getting the best of me. She recently told me that I’m proving her suspicions about being unable to become a "kinder and gentler" person. <P>Whether I remain with her or not, I want and need to be a "kinder and gentler" person. I know some things I can do like rereading Love Busters, etc. But I’d sure be open to any proven techniques, other books, etc. that anyone on this board can offer. I have again committed to W that I am going to work on this. Being on the roller coaster makes it difficult for me but I really am serious and need to make some real progress. <P>Thanks, Ron<BR>

Sailor,<P>The value of this is 0.02.<P>My tip is STOP! Don't do what i did and vent your anger towards her. Tell her that your angry and why, but also tell her that your working very hard to control your emotions because you know it's the right thing to do for you as well as her. Speak in a controlled manner w/o raising your voice. When you feel the anger coming, you may want to separate yourself from her. If you do, be sure to tell her what you're doing. Don't just storm out. Be in control of yourself at all times. I know, easier said than done. <P>My W says my anger is a problem and at one time she was right. Not now. Now she's just using it as an excuse to rationalize her own immature behavior. <P>I wish you all the best.

Nlitend<BR>Thanks. I think part of the problem is with her just knowing I’m angry. I don’t yell or get physical but I have made a scenes where I have excluded myself from activities that include her family that upset her. Her family does not know about the affair and it upsets me that she is able to put on this air of everything being so wonderful while I’m in such pain. I’m often tempted to expose what their "wonderful" daughter has done so they know why I a behaving the way I do. I often feel like I’m being drug around. I feel that my willingness to stay and work on our marriage has made her feel she can behave disrespectfully toward me. She sometimes acts as though she has this new freedom of not having to answer to me. Its not that I want the control but just some respect. For example, we will be in a shopping center and she will just walk off - like "hey, if you want to be with me then keep up". Like some kind of dog. So my reaction is "hey, I’m not a dog and I don’t have to put up with this". I guess part of it might be establishing a new relationship where I give her more freedom. Another example is the way she behaves around other people - like I don’t exist. I’ll say something to her in a crowd and it is like I’m not even heard. Just tuned out. Yea, that’s it - tuned out. Well, anyway, all this hurts and makes me resentful that I’m trying and being drug around. But I know you are correct about staying in control. I need to work on just telling her what is making me angry, what I’m going to do about it, and then doing it without a bunch of confrontation and scene making. <BR>

In your rage, every love triangle has 3 points. It takes 3 to tango.<P>When you can't cool off, direct all of your anger at yourself and the creep who seduced your vulnerable wife. You played a part, he played a part, forget her part for now. Picture your wife as becoming vulnerable because these two men didn't do everything they should have.<P>On controlling: either you are insecure or a creep. Assuming you aren't a sadistic jerk, that old Sting song is so true "if you love someone, set them free." He didn't, she left, he wrote a song about divorce so you wouldn't make the same mistake.<P>Buy that song. Have it playing often in the car at home, to remind you to cool out. Your wife might even find it a little humorous and appreciate the effort that her "controlling" husband is making. Good luck.<P>

Hi Sailor,<BR> Boy, I know how you feel!....I never thought of myself as insecure but once my H's affair happened, yikes, I felt angry, and insecure. Maybe you are terribly insecure at this point and feel like she doesn't respect you. I felt that way too.<BR> One thing that has helped me is to focus more on myself....I've started exercising more, and thinking about what I want to <BR>do, in other words is there something that will make you feel better about yourself? When I do that I feel better , have less anger and don't feel like a doormat.Good luck to you and I commend you for looking at yourself honestly and trying! Lu

You may tell me to take a flying leap after reading this but how could it hurt to try.<P>Here are some facts as I hear them from you...<P>You are living together.<BR>She is not seeing the OP but is in witdrawel (you probably feel she is comparing you to him in every move you make, and most likely she is)<BR>Her "love bank" with your points has had many withdrawels, while the OP's love bank is still chock full. You rightfully resent that but...<BR>Every neg or neutral reaction from you continues to cause withdrawals from your account, at the same time, withdrawals are happening in the love bank you have for her.<P>Now, here's the hard part.<P>Don't just react or withhold actions. ACT...Lovinging, at all costs.<P>When you are in a mall together, hold her hand or put your arm around her. If she pulls away, remind her that you love her and want to change your relationship, and that affection is a very important element that should be maintained. <BR>Kiss her good-bye, kiss her hello. Everyday...More than a peck. Rub her shoulders when she is at the sink washing dishes. Invite her to think of things you can do together, alone. Think of conversation topics less mundane than "what's for supper", such as "What qualities do you consider important in a good friendship?" or "In what ways do you think we are like each others parents?" These can be level 3 or 4 conversations (See The 10 second Kiss by E. Friedman) and are some what risky, but that is where verbal intamcy is!<P>On another note, and you may not be able to do this now, when I discovered my H's affair, one of the immediate conditions I set was that he tell his parents about it. He balked, but my reasoning was...<BR>1. If it came to a divorce, they should have as much of the story as is possible from his side and<BR>2. By their knowing I could also talk to them about my feelings and hopes.<BR>3. Any tensions felt when in their company would be understandable and could be more honestly dealt with!<BR> I also made it clear that my familiy would also be told. In this way, we both would have a support group readily formed behind each of us individually if that were the direction our marriage took. At the same time, if we choose, (and we have) to stay together our parents would be aware that we were fighting to recapture or increase the beauty of our marriage and would be more likely to be there for us as baby sitters, etc. By being able to talk to my parents and his parents, I have not had to rely on finding someone else to talk to when the going got tough. My H has very few "good" friends and I did not want him to feel alone during his withdrawal, giving him more reason to wish he could "talk to the OW". His parents were pretty upset with him and told him so, but also gave him the unconditional love and support he needed to move forward. He has had to deal somewhat with resentment from my sister and mom, but found an ally in my dad. And as my mom and sister have watched us become reunited, they too have learned that nothing is impossible.<P>I want to agree on another point made above. Vent your anger, (in your mind I must add) on the Other man. Let him take the flack. Draw his picture and stick pins into it. To your wife, tell her you are really sorry she cannot have both of you and that you recognize he will always have a special place in her heart (trust me, that place will grow smaller and smaller if your place becomes larger and larger). Tell her you really really intend to be there for her. As you become more there for her, surprize, surprize, she will become more there for you!<P>Other good books (besides the 10 second Kiss mentioned above)<BR>"Getting the Love you Want, A guide for couples" by Harville Hendrix ( you may not "buy" everthing he says, but lots of good pointers.<P>"A course in Miracles" by Marianne Williamson<BR>Kinda strange, but interesting perspectives on what Love is really all about.<P>"1001 ways to be romantic", by Gregory J.P. Godek I know, yeck, it's not a guy thing, but you want to make love bank deposits don't cha?<P>Well, I guess that is my two cents for now.<P>There are others, but I have loaned them out and cannot remember what they are right now.<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Pilot's wife (edited August 22, 1999).]

Lu<BR>Thanks. I'll take your advise. I have read this elsewhere but never really thought it applied much to me. Perhaps it does. I'll try it anyway. Thanks for recognizing that I am trying. I don't like many aspects of whom I have become. Unfortunately neither does my wife.<P>Pilots Wife<BR>You are certainly correct about the love banks. You have a lot of advise that sounds good and I really appreciate your thoughts. You know, one of my faults is that I expect something in return when I give. I am working at this and have experienced first hand a few times the good feeling one gets by just giving. I do show my W affection in many of the ways you mention but there are times when I just need something back. When I don't get anything I want to stop giving. You know what is funny is that I sometimes wake her for a kiss when I leave in the morning (use to every morning). When I do, she almost always gives me a pretty affectionate hug which is really nice.<P>And you advise about sharing with the families. Interesting. This is the kind of ideas I really appreciate. Something I had never even considered. Not sure it is a good idea in our situation but I'll give it some thought and may discuss with W. One thing for sure, neither of us have any support and the thought of her turning to the Om for comfort is awful. We have been to two counselors which haven't worked out too well (we are in agreement on this). <P>I'll also try your anger venting suggestions too. Thanks again.<BR>

Hey Sailor me again.<P>One thing I learned through all of this is that I had a controlling behavior and I didn't know it. So, in some ways you have a jump start just by knowing you have a problem.<P>Your W has been doing the same as mine - watching to see if the changes in us are genuine. It's normal for your Taker to want his fair share. But, you have to shive him aside for quite a while. Have you read Harley's "Give & Take"? He gives some good advice on how to make your Taker happy while giving. <P>One thing I realized that was a real love buster for my W was my need to be right. Being right is a win-lose situation. You may win by being right, but you lose because you just yanked out a bunch of love deposits. <P>So, here's what you do. You self evaluate often. You enter into conversations knowing that you are going to have to bite your tounge. You enter a conversation knowing that you are going to give her a compliment - a geniune one - not expecting anything in return. You keep her known lovebusters in your pocket. Refer to them before you see her. After you see, you evaluate your performance - how did I do? Did I have to prove I'm right? Did I tell her something nice? Did I find out how she feels about something her day, the kids, etc.? This is tedious at first, but after a while you will find how easy and pleasent your communications are. She will want to talk to you more. She will start feeling comfortable with you again. Your praise and adoration for her will become second nature - and that is your goal.<P>When my daughter was going through surgery, the surgical nurse was a real bi**h to us; the doctors were very pleasent {what a switch). My W being a nurse herself could not stand it, she sought out the nurse supervisor and explained what happen. Later that night, while i was giving her a nice backrub, I told her how much I admired her for what she did. She was surprised that I admired that. I explained to her what it meant to me and she was was sincerly honored that I appreciated her in that way. What I'm saying is, after a while, you start noticing the little things that you appreciate in your W. The difference in me is that I now start telling her about those things, and it brings us closer together.<P>Ron, your W and mine were very much a like. My W did the same things at the mall, the same things with relatives (no else knew about her affair either). The one thing I can say is give the freedom when your out, but make your time together at home very special. In time you will find yourself walking together through the stores, she will bring you into the conversations when you are out because she knows you will say something nice about her in front of other people. A month or two ago, I took my W out for dinner with her her brother. I asked her if I could order for her. She didn't want me to but said OK. When the waiter asked what we would like I said, "This very beautiful lady will have such-an-such". Her eyes grew several sizes. She smiled and looked at her brother. He raised his eyebrows. I know that made her day. I had never doen that before. Now, she likes me to order for her. Try new and unusual things around her.<P>Keep trying Ron. You'll get there.<P>SHA