I would like some advice. I recently ended an affair. The lying to my wife, and not being to be with the OW full time was too great for me to bear anymore. I owe both of them more than I was giving. I need to move on with my life, either with my wife or without. I do love my wife, but don't feel that I am in love with her, do you know what I am saying? She is a great person, but we have no intimacy, nothing for years. I have been married for eight years, no children, involved with the OW since March. I miss the OW terribly, we parted on good terms I guess if parting is ever easy, she brought so many feelings back I thought were long gone. We decided not to see, talk or contact each other until I have made the decision to stay with my wife or leave. Yes the ultimatum, it was my choice. Now I am at a crossroads where I am sure many of you have been before. What criteria do you use in going through the decision process? I have so many emotions floating through my head right now, with my heart saying one thing, and common sense another. Any advice??

I'm pretty much in the same place you are right now, larry, so all I can say is you're not the Lone Ranger. I've found this is a forum full of Tontos <P>Does you wife know? I'm struggling with telling mine. Like yours, she is a good person and a great mom and doesn't deserve what I've done...<P>Hang in there buddy

Welcome... I see you've only posted a few times...<P>The people here represent both betrayed spouses and wayward spouses alike. <B>All</B> of us are really here to try and build or rebuild our marriages... and we are trying to use principals and concepts that are espoused by Dr. Willard Harley of Marriage Builders(MB).<P>I think you know from that intoduction... the decision most of us will steer you towards....<P>There is a wealth of information here at this site, starting from the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/" TARGET=_blank>Marriage Builder's Home Page</A>.<P>If you're new to the ideas being presented here at MB start off with <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3000_intro.html" TARGET=_blank>Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts</A><P>If you are considering a recovery of your marriage... don't wait... get a <B>sound</B> understanding of <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A>... it is crucial!<P>If you are considering the OW... <BR><B>Please don't!</B> Check out (by clicking here) <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/009887.html}" TARGET=_blank>mschif's...Someone better</A> post ASAP... see nonplused's reply!!! mschif... is in your position too!<P>As time allows... you'll need to learn more about, not just marriage building... but self building too! The learning isn't going to happen overnight though... look at the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8100_article.html" TARGET=_blank>Articles</A> and <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5525_qa.html" TARGET=_blank>Infidelity Q&A</A>.<BR>The real learning is best aided by obtaining some of the books from the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6000_bookstore.html" TARGET=_blank>MB Bookstore</A>... of most important for those who have affairs in progress, or soon to be, is <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6070_sa.html" TARGET=_blank>"Surviving An Affair"</A> by Dr. Willard Harley. This is the cornerstone text.<P>Most of all... you will find <B>compassion</B> and <B>love</B> here. No judging... no demeaning... no malice here! <B>Even for wayward spouses!</B><P>But just the books and facts aren't going to get you through it all... not without <B>support</B>. That's where <B>we</B> come in! <B>We</B> care... because <B>we</B> know how it feels from both sides! Believe it... <B>You are <I>not</I> alone</B>! <BR>Come to this forum to ask for advise...<P>Remember... <B>you are <I>not</I> alone</B>! <P>Post... Post... Post... Reply... Reply... Reply... READ! READ! READ! Think!<P>If you're here... join in with the people of this forum... they <B>will</B> join in with you. <P>Jim<BR>---------------------------------<BR>Where two or more are gathered...

Thanks for the advice. My wife does not know<BR>about my affair. I feel that my marriage<BR>surviving is not based upon whether or not<BR>the OW is in the picture, for I don't think I would leave my wife for her. I don't feel that is the choice I will make, it is whether or not I can rebuild our marriage <BR>independent of anyone else. But I have to <BR>be able to look at life without rose colored glasses.<BR>The OW opened up my eyes, and what a price<BR>I am paying as a result. It seems like<BR>pandoras box, once opened watch out.....

You can't rebuild your marriage "independent of anyone else"... It's you and your wife!!!<P>You've got to tell your wife.<P>A very important guide to recovery as mentioned in the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6070_sa.html" TARGET=_blank>"Surviving An Affair"(SAA)</A> book is...<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>The Rule of Honesty:</B> Be totally open and honest with your spouse. (page 139 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>That goes along with... <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Historical Honesty:</B> Reveal information about your personal history, particularly events that demonstrate personal weakness or failure. (page 142 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Larry... we're here to help you... don't go it alone!... don't go independent!...<P>{{{{{Larry}}}}}<P>Jim<BR>---------------------------------<BR>Where two or more are gathered...

Hi Larry,<P>Wow, this is a big week for betrayers. Three new ones (you, mschif, and Apollo13)! Although it says in your profile that you've been registered since May?<P>Anyway, Larry, NSR is right about one thing -- you need to get your wife involved in the recovery process. This is as much her problem as it is yours. Yes, you had the affair, and yes, you are struggling with your feelings, but without your wife's help you will be floundering without a life line.<P>You need to figure out what your emotional needs are and also figure out which ones your OW was providing that your wife wasn't. And this is where your wife comes in. She has to help by fulfilling your emotional needs.<P>What do you think happened to your marriage? Did you have passionate head-over-heels love for your wife before? What made it erode? Figure that out. Then talk to your wife and come up with a plan on getting it back. That involves the emotional needs.<P>Also, think about the neglect your wife might be feeling now. Have you been ignoring <B>her</B> emotional needs? Probably.<P>Your road ahead is not an easy one. I know exactly your feelings because I was there not too long ago. My affair ended in late June and I am still feeling the effects of it. I'm still in withdrawal, although it's much better now.<P>Anyway, look at the past posts from mschif and Apollo13 and you'll find lot's of good advice there, as well as NSR's post to you here.<P>good luck and take care,<BR>--andy

Hi Larry,<P>Been where you are and it really is painful. But, like you, I couldn't take the pain of living in an impossible situation. When you live an unathentic life like that it starts to drive you insane.<P>I have learned a lot and thought a lot, probably could write a lenghty book at this point. However, just a few thoughts. First, I think affairs are more intense and exciting because our spouse does not know. In other words, we create a separate little world in an affair, a secret, special world. It really is a fantasy. I think that part may hit home if you can keep from contacting the OP. It really, really is important that you end it with the OP. You will never be able to solve anything or create intimacy and love with your wife if you don't.<P>I don't know if you should tell your wife or not. On one hand it puts all the cards on the table and you will both know that you have work to do. You will be able to start over, have a new marriage. Personally I think it is the best way and what Dr. Harley suggests. I also know it can be excrutiatingly painful.<P>A couple of things I told myself at your stage......<BR>1. Either I should try to make my marriage work or get out of it. An affair is the wrong way to solve marital problems.<BR>2. I would rather work on my marriage without another person in the picture. If my marriage failed, I did not want it ending because I was IN an affair at the time. That seemed really tawdry and dishonest. <BR>3. Life with another person would get "same old, same old" too after a few years and the newness wore off. Would I really be better off?<P>Withdrawal is awful, awful. I hope you can handle it.......but if you contact the OP you only start the pain all over again and delay beginning to work on you marriage. You really won't be able to work on your marriage until you get over the OP.

Dear Larry1:<BR>You married your wife because you loved her and wanted to be with her, take care of her in marriage through sickness and health. You took those vows and promised God that you would do so. Now, you question it? Your affair never should have happenned. If you love your wife and not in love with her, then what do you do? Have you tried counseling? Have you tried getting the intimacy back? I wouldn't want anyone to give up a marriage without really trying, because then you can say taht you really tried and it just did not work. If you haven't tried and decide to leave, then that question will always lurk in your mind whether or not it would have worked if only you worked at it. You are married and with her. There is only two choices...you either are willing to try and make it work OR leave. These are the two choices I gave my husband after his affair. I told him that if he wanted to be with me, then he would have to give 110% in the marriage because I deserved nothing less. If he could not give then I told him I would file for divorce. The end. There is no bending. Life is too precious. He has wasted my time by having the affair while I didn't know for the whole year and took all the crap he was dishing me, treating me like. It's my life and he will not, or anyone, take my life for granted and treat me with disrespect. I committed to my marriage when I married him. I understand how you feel, though. Because all that has happenned to me, I don't think I love him anymore. Well, I am not in love with him. Yet, I am trying. This way, I can't ever say I never tried to save this marriage. For me, I don't think it's going to last because those feelings that you have for the ow, I don't have for my husband. Your in a tough situation because your feelings and emotions have been touched, caressed and cared for like they haven't been in a long time. That felt really good to you. I wish I could feel all that. All your feelings have gone over to someone else. Who are you truly happy with? Why don't you write a list for each one. MAke a list for your wife of all the things you lvoe about her and all the things you don't. Compare the two sides. And then do the same for the ow. Maybe that will give you some insight on where you should be heading. I did the same thing, one time with an ex and had a whole list of things that were negative and 2 positives...I left him. You see, I am giving you several scenerios of what you can do and things to think about. I cannot tell you what to do. I am not you. I can only let you think about things and have you come up with the solutuion...kindof like a psychologist. Hope I didn't confuse you.....

Thank all of you for your advice. I am going to counseling this afternoon to try and get a handle on myself. I feel I have been in a <BR>sort of depression the past few years, and<BR>the affair was a result. I am not making <BR>excuses, but I really want to figure out<BR>who I am, what makes me tick, and why I do what I do. I will write more when I return from my session. Thanks again for your insight, experience and information, and it is nice to talk to people that have been in similar situations.

larry1,<P>I applaud your efforts. It is hard to do what you are doing, but you are smart. Getting the counseling to figure out why you do what you do, can only benefit you whether or not your marriage survives. Best of luck with the counseling!!!<P>Roll Me Away<P>

Larry, I am having problems telling my counselor about the EMA too. I did lightly mention it one day but all he said was have you seen or talked to MM since you ended it. I told him I haven't and that was the end of the conversation. So it's not a "guy thing" to not want to talk to your counselor about this. BUT, if you truly want to make some decisions in your life you will have to talk with someone. I know that counselors can be helpful with making you open up and answer some questions, but the counselor can not make the decision for you. <BR>I believe you should be honest with your W. Can you really go forward and make a happy marriage work if she isn't aware of the void in your life? It sounds as if you have a difficult time sharing your feelings, yet you also sound very caring and capable of empathy. <BR>It's very hard to let go of the OW, in my case MM, but sometimes it's for the best(I say this while my own heart is breaking.) You truly aren't showing respect for either your W or the OW if you continue the EMA, and by ending it the way you did you are at least being honest with the OW. <BR>You say you are not "in love" with your wife but do you think you can find that love with her again? This is a good time for you to be asking yourself what you want and can you make it happen. I've learned that wanting something doesn't mean you'll get it, you have to make it work. That's the tough part. <BR>There's always the option of moving out to get a perspective on things without W or OW there to make you do something that you may later regret.<BR>This is all just MHO, take it with a grain of salt. I'm just as screwed up as you are right now. It's good to know that others are there to listen. <p>[This message has been edited by aghra (edited November 23, 1999).]

Hi all, I had an enlightening session with my counselor yesterday. I did bring up my EMA, but she did not want to dwell on it, but was more interested in my mental state. I have made an appointment with my Dr. to talk about meds for depression, as my last resort, I am going to try SAMe for a while which is a natural substance. My detached behavior, and my addictive tendencies i.e. work, school, an affair, fill the void in an empty relationship, as I was unwilling to face the vulnerability of my own hidden pain. Needless to say all of this is a bit overwhelming, but comforting to know. I do have a lot of work ahead. I shared my counseling visit with my wife, and as I expected the first words out of her mouth were, "what about me" uggghhh. She asked me what I wanted her to do, and I asked that she try to understand what I am going through, as I would do the same with her, and that we would work through this together. I also picked up a couple of books recommended by my counselor to read, and asked that she might want to take a look at them to help her better feel where I am, her response was "it's my problem not hers". I have tried many times over the years, to put myself in her shoes, and I am tired of trying. My heart goes out to her, as she is probably weary of me as I am of her. This depression really stinks. This is a very lonely existence, and it is tough, and when I have nights like these I miss the OW even more, my heart aches. I don't know If I can salvage my marriage, regain feelings that have been gone so long, the passion, intimacy, that we once had, But I know that I have to do it on my own, not with someone else in the picture. What a vicious web I have woven....