Hi,<BR> I'm a first time poster here. Have been reading for a litle while. My husband of 10 years is having some kind of relationship with a coworker that he insists is just friendship and going out after work with friends. I know it is more and of course have done all of the snooping things. When I confronted him he continues to deny. Lately it has escilated to him being gone during the days he has off that I am working, more phone calls, you all know the story...<BR>How do I work on things when he is in denial that there is anything going on? How do I avoid pushing him away from me? I was thinking of giving him the emotional needs questionaire...Do you think that is a good idea? Any advice is apprciated, also which books do you all recoommend as being the most helpful for me. I have started counseling, but he refuses, also he has resisted when I tried to get him to do a few marraiage exercises. So I feel I'm kind of on my own. Thanks for any advice. Lora

Welcome Lora to the Marriage Builders - Infidelity Forum.<P>The people here represent both betrayed spouses and betrayers alike and the occasional Other Woman/Man/Person (OP/OW/OM).<BR><B>All</B> of us are really here to try and build or rebuild our marriages... and we are trying to use principals and concepts that are espoused by Dr. Willard Harley of Marriage Builders(MB).<P>It sounds like you looked around the site before and even picked up a copy of <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6070_sa.html" TARGET=_blank>"Surviving An Affair"(SAA)</A> by Dr. Willard Harley... (your reference to "emotional needs questionaire") If you do have the book read it cover to cover. If not...<B>get it!</B><P>If you're new to the ideas being presented here at MB start off with <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3000_intro.html" TARGET=_blank>Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts</A><P>Many of us need to start immediately working on our marriages and a <B>sound</B> understanding of <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A and Plan B</A> is crucial! You need to start immediately on <B><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A></B>... to keep from "pushing him away"... and it sounds like you've been doing it for a while... perhaps?<P>It sounds like you've heard some of these same lines before... <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>"Stay out of my private life", I'm disappointed you don't trust me", "I can't remember", "We're just friends", and "I just needs some time away to think things through" (pages 40-44 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>... not good signs. <P>The real learning is best aided by obtaining some of the books from the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6000_bookstore.html" TARGET=_blank>MB Bookstore</A>... and clearly <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6070_sa.html" TARGET=_blank>"Surviving An Affair"</A> is the first one to get... This is the cornerstone text.<BR>Other books can be very useful as well... like <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6020_needs.html" TARGET=_blank>"His Needs, Her Needs"</A> and <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6030_love.html" TARGET=_blank>"Love Busters"</A>.<BR>There will be many other good books that the MB people will recommend... take their advice... they've been around.<BR>I have a partial list of some previously recommended...<BR><OL TYPE=A> <BR><LI>"Private Lies" by Dr. Frank Pittman<BR><LI>"After the Affair" by Janis Spring<BR><LI>"Affair-Proof Your Marriage" by Lana Staheli<BR><LI>"Power of a Praying Wife"<BR><LI>"Torn Asunder" by Dave Carder<BR><LI>"Fighting for Your Marriage" by Howard Markman<BR><LI>"Too Good To Leave/Too Bad To Stay" by Mira Kirshenbaum<BR><LI>"Loving Choices" by Bruch Fisher & Nina Hart<BR><LI>"Getting The Love You Want" by Harville Hendrix<BR><LI>"Love Life for Every Married Couple" by Ed Wheat,M.D.<BR><LI>"The Heart of Commitment" by Scott Stanley<BR><LI>"What if I Married the Wrong Person?"<BR><LI>"The Choosing to Forgive Workbook" by Les Carter & Minirth<BR><LI>"When A Mate Wants Out" by Jim Conway<BR></OL> <P>Most of all... you will find <B>compassion</B> and <B>love</B> here. No judging... no demeaning... no malice here!<BR>The people here have all had their lives thrown into a whirlwind of despair, confusion, and sadness.<BR>We've all experience gut wrenching emotions that we though could never exist, in anyone's idea of humanity.<BR>Feelings of hatred, love, disillusionment, envy, rejection, emptiness, <B>deep depression</B>, and on and on...<P>But just the books and facts aren't going to get you through it all... not without <B>support</B>. That's where <B>we</B> come in! <B>We</B> care... because <B>we</B> know how it feels. Believe it... <B>You are <I>not</I> alone</B>! <BR>Come to this forum to vent... to cry... to laugh (a little)... to express your feelings... to advise others... or just to get away!<BR>Your probably going through H*!! right now... don't go it alone... remember... <B>you are <I>not</I> alone</B>! <BR>No you don't have to "...kind of (be) on your own!"<P>There is never any guarantee to save all marriages... life doesn't work that way, unfortunately.<BR>We can, and do guarantee, to give you help... to build back many vital aspects of your life and sanity. <P>Post... Post... Post... Reply... Reply... Reply... READ! READ! READ! Think!<P>I've been speaking in behalf of some dear friends... as well as some complete strangers too..., when I've used <B>"we"</B>!<BR>But... if you're here... join in with them... they <B>will</B> join in with you. <P>Jim<BR>---------------------------------<BR>Where two or more are gathered...<P>[This message has been edited by NSR (edited November 23, 1999).]<p>[This message has been edited by NSR (edited November 23, 1999).]

Wow, what a great response. I might add a book that Dazed and Confused, who had been in somewhat of your position, has recommended. I am just starting to read it.<P>How One of You Can Bring the Two of You Together by Susan Page.<P>This forum saved my sanity, I hope you will find the support you need.<P>Hey NSR, copy that post somewhere, it could be useful again.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Lora,<P>Welcome and what more can be said after NSR!! Great welcome job NSR,,as FHL said,,keep that and copy it!!

Thanks for the great replys. and here I thought plan A was to wait till he came home at 3;00 one more time and hit him on the head with a frying pan! I may just try and put that into plan C and try your ways first. It is hard to be supportive of him when you feel so little support for yourself. I hope I can get some relief from my anger, frustration and fears by talking to you all. It allready helps to hear I am not goig crazy and that I am not alone. Thanks. Lora

Lora,<P>I like everyone's responses so far (especially the tailored and complete response that NSR has been giving---very nice).<P>You're doing counseling, which is great. You should be focused on lovebusters right now---you must find ways to eliminate these behaviors. You might want to give your husband the lovebuster's questionnaire first---see how he responds. If he won't do it, you should try to do it for him. Concentrate on eliminating whatever lovebusters you see yourself bringing to the relationship. Be consistant---expect the effort to take a couple months before you see results. If you're successful in this endeavour, then I'd encourage you to do the emotional needs questionnaire with him, and see if you can start meeting some of his needs that you may have been neglecting.<P>This strategy is basically "Plan A" of Surviving an Affair. I would also encourage you to get that book.<P>

Like everyone else said PLAN-A,PLAN-A,PLAN-A.So far it has worke wonders for my situation. I think we are on the cusp of a break through. However you may get discouraged with PLAN-A, it requires oneself to give and give and give often with no imediate results or feelings reciprocated. Patience is a must in this endevor. Like NSR so succinctly put it use this forum as he described it.<P>KEEP COMING BACK,<P>Bill

Hello and welcome! This is a graet site, that helped me think when I was incapable of thinking a rational thought!<BR>Hang in there. If plan a doesn't work well for you, read Tough Love by James Dobson<P>Once you reach recovery, you and your h can read Successful Family Ties by Ron Ball or<BR>The 7 Habits of Highly Effective Families by Stephen Covey. It's great for couples to learn how to build a family!<P>Right now, your H needs love and attention. I know that's hard to hear when you want to scream at him. It was the hardest thing for me to do was love him while he was emotionally tied to a female in his office. But anger and demands will push him away if you use those first. Love is needed in the beginning, then if self respect starts being stomped on, then try a little tough love. But read the book, there is a right and a wrong way to tough love!<BR>Hang around, read and post as written above!<BR>Good luck to you in the roads ahead .. it usually gets worse before better! <BR> Once again, welcome!<P><BR><P>------------------<BR>Mater<BR>mater15@ivillage.com<P>

Lora, <BR>We are in the same boat.(Read my post "Need opinions/insight...) Only difference my H doesn't show the typical signs of a betrayer, on his usual days off he is still off working on house projects our hanging out with our 4 yr old, there are NO phone calls (I have access to his voice mail at work and cell), there is no coming home late, it's just those few incidents where he has gone away and the incident a year and a half ago.<BR>He denies, denies, denies any sort of relationship. Only that she is fun to be around, I guess she boosts his ego, carefree...you know, how we all were in the beginning of our relationships! That he is attracted to her, but that's all. <P>All I can tell you is to keep your eyes WIDE open and try not to push him away (I can't believe I'm giving the advice that I can't seem to take myself) however hard I KNOW THAT IS!<P>Do you know her? Does he include you in work related functions? Has your life together become some sort of rut? Do you have kids? Have you guys lost your "SPARK"? What if you ask him if you can meet him at these after work hours get togethers?<P>Maybe you shouldn't continue to confront unless you have something more concrete besides your gut feelings. Otherwise, you will be the nagging wife, and she will be the funloving, freespirited, carefree person you probably once were...and who do you think he would rather spend his time with? Try to put yourself in his shoes and put yourself in a scenario where your H nags, complains, criticizes and is basically no fun to be around anymore (regardless of how justified his behavior is for whatever the reason) and there is this breath of fresh air at work who thinks you are the best thing next to sliced bread, has other things to talk to you about other than what you're not doing or doing wrong, compliments you, makes you feel special, etc.etc... REGARDLESS of how much you love your H, who would you honestly rather be around?<P>Think about it!

Hi, Lora. Add my welcome to the others. You've got the best advice here you can find. Follow it. <P>And come here anytime you need us. We're ALWAYS around.<P>Hang in there.<P>Lori

OK Guys, I have been trying really hard for about 2 weeks to do it right, things are a little better, he asked me to go to a movie last night and we went out to dinner afterwards and actually talked some about casual things. The thing that is bothering me is he seems to avoid touching me, holding my hand, even had his arms crossed through much of the movie. I have been trying to just touch him in non threatning ways, a hand on his knee during the movie, a touch on his arm. Should I stop? Is this pressuring him? This is so hard!!! Lora

Lora,<P>If it's making him uncomfortable, then you should stop it. Your touching him is meeting YOUR needs, not necessarily his. If you're to the point where you can discuss this, I'd suggest that you have an honest talk with him about it (avoiding lovebusters, of course).<P>If you're not at the point of being able to talk about this openly, just gauge his reactions to the things that you do, and back off of those things that make him uncomfortable.

Lora:<P>Oy. ANOTHER one. I'm getting tired of introducing myself this way. <P>I'm tired. I have a sick cat with congestive heart failure who won't take his medicine. But I have a better marriage than I did six months ago. Please read my profile; I updated it recently. Go back and do a search on my name for my posts to read my WHOLE journey. Read my replies to sadmv. Post if you have questions.<P><p>[This message has been edited by Dazed and Confused (edited November 24, 1999).]

If anyone knows what they are talking about in this situation, it is Dazed, IMHO.<P>Please take the time to check her out. If you compare her first posts to her recent ones, there is night and day difference. She has come a long way, and she did it all by herself.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13