Okay this is a faith question. The day my h told me he was going to get a separation and gave me his wedding ring back I returned home and had an encounter with God. I genuinely believe that He told me he would fix my marriage to how it should be. I also believe that he has repeated this to me countless times in the past 2 months. <P>Within about 2 days of discussing this with 3 of my good friends--all said that they had the same thing happen to them when they prayed about it. One even said she had a "vision" of us restored and in love in the days following my encounter. <P>My question is Has anyone had such an occurrance and although I know its in line with scripture and backed up my 2 or more christian people...what about this free will thing? <P>One of my friends said that the free will determines how long but its not possible that this was a message from somewhere else is it????<P><BR>May God Bless us all indeed.

There is always a question of free will. The priest I spoke to said that God can give my husband a powerful hint (he talked about a "whack on the head") to wake him up.<P>Prayer calls the angels and saints and the Lord to the situation and the situation gets worked on. The chains that bind him to sin fall away. The fog lifts. Then it becomes natural for your husband to come home.<P>Be steadfast and sure. Don't worry about things you can't change - just pray and don't doubt. I wouldn't waste a lot of time meditating on this but just go forward as you are. I believe that your marriage will be restored too. Be courageous.

<B>I genuinely believe that God told me he would fix my marriage to how it should be. I also believe that he has repeated this to me countless times in the past 2 months. My question is Has anyone had such an occurrance and although I know its in line with scripture and backed up my 2 or more christian people...</B><P>Yes, LKD, I have had this type of occurance, too. My Christian friends believe with me that my M will be restored. Do you know why? Because it IS in line with the will of God! We cannot be outside the will of God, because He controls every aspect of us, if we are His children. <P>I believe God gives us His scriptures as His way of "talking" to us. Everything we need to know about Him and His mind, His thinking and His plan for us is in there. It is the LIVING WORD of God, in other words, not just "words" on a page, but living, breathing words from our Creator. That is why on any given day, a Christian can read from the scriptures and actually "hear" God tell him something! <P><B>...what about this free will thing? One of my friends said that the free will determines how long but its not possible that this was a message from somewhere else is it????</B><BR>OK, free will. Here is MY take on this. Please, understand that this is MY understanding on God's will, our free will, and scriptures, and of course, I'm not perfect, so I don't have it all together, yet!<P>I am reading "God Can and Will Restore Your Marriage" - by Erin Thiele. I ordered it through their website, Restorem.org If you haven't gone there, please do! This woman's H left her for another woman, DIVORCED her, and then came home!! It's a wonderful story of a restored marriage in the Lord. <P>Well, in Chapter 10 "He Turns the Heart" the lesson is from Proverbs 21:1. "The king's heart is like channels of water in the hands of the Lord. He turns it wherever He wishes." It doesn't sound like we have much free will there! In fact, I believe that when a Christian goes OUTSIDE God's will, he can't stay there for long! I think there is conviction of wrong-doing. I believe God will allow a person to "wander" for awhile, but conviction will follow, and they may choose to turn back or not. If they do, fine, they are restored! If they do not, Rev. 2:21 says "And I gave her time to repent, and she does not want to repent of her immorality. Behold, I will cast her upon a bed of sickness, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds."<P>So what that says TO ME is that God will give the sinner (we all are!) a season in which to sin (because of free will), but then, when God starts to "turn their heart" they are NOT to harden their hearts toward God's turning. If they do, the scripture tells that they will be cast into tribulation, until they repent! In fact, I think it's somewhere in Proverbs that says if they keep hardening their hearts, and NEVER turn back, they are CUT OFF (I think it means KILLED!!!) What a thought!! But when you think about it, God can't have Christians just going out all over the place DIS-honoring Him forever and ever! He IS a just and righteous God, after all.<P>So I believe with our prayers, we are abiding IN God's will to pray that the "sinner" be turned from their sin, and repent of their evil, and return to God before God has to bring tribulation to them in order to turn them! An excellent example of this is the Prodigal Son story. God didn't stop him from leaving....he had his fun, squandered all his money, partied hardy. BUT when the fun was over, and he was literally penniless and WALLOWING WITH PIGS, his heart was turned by God and he returned to his home.<P>Jonah 1:17 says Jonah DIDN'T WANT to do God's will, so he went the other way!! He thought that if he got on a boat and sailed in the other direction, he could get away from God's command (God's will for him). Eventually God had him SWALLOWED UP by a whale!!<P>So I guess the bottom line I'm trying to say is that I believe God will give us "just enough rope..." (our free will) and then REEL us in!!!<P>This is where our faithful prayers for our WS's keeps them from falling TOO DEEPLY into a pit of tribulation.<P>This is how I am thinking, and understanding God's workings. As I said, I'm NO EXPERT, but this is comforting to me. I mean, I have friends who are praying that God WILL "beat up" on my H, since he needs his eyes opened to the major MESS he's creating!! I feel sorry for him, because I believe this is exactly what God's going to do, since he IS disobeying God's will for his life!! <P>Sorry this turned into a Novel, but I couldn't stop myself!<P>Lupo<p>[This message has been edited by lupolady (edited July 21, 2001).]

Hi LKD and Lupo - <P>Lupo, I couldn't agree with you more. That's exactly what I meant about the whack on the head. For some, God needs to bring them to their knees and it's the only way to get them to wake up. They can still say no - but things get worse and worse for them.<P>In the Restore site she had some great stories - this one man's house finally burned down and only then did he wake up.<P>Let's hope our WS are not so thick!! But if they are, the Lord will change things so they wake up sooner or later.<P>I sort of feel that the longer this goes on, the more I have time to really change so I am sort of shooting for Christmas but we'll have to see if that's enough in God's plan.<BR>Peace - <BR>T

<B>For some, God needs to bring them to their knees and it's the only way to get them to wake up. They can still say no - but things get worse and worse for them.<P>I sort of feel that the longer this goes on, the more I have time to really change so I am sort of shooting for Christmas but we'll have to see if that's enough in God's plan.</B><P>Trying... I'm kinda on the same wavelength you are!! I can see me changing every day, and part of me says, "I'm not ready yet, Lord." And part of me says, "OK, Lord, enough now. Bring him home." <P>I was sort of on that "Christmas" time table, too, for awhile, but things are happening, and "being told" to me to make me think it's not going to be that long. I don't really know anymore, so I don't really think about it too much now.<P>I know SOMETHING goes on on the week-ends!!! <BR>I talked to my g/f today after I had a "weird" happening....I was in our bedroom folding laundry. I turned to take the towels into the linen closet, and I looked up on the shelf at the wedding pictures from his son's wedding, where they took our picture, just me and H, all decked out in tux, et al. and he's got the BIGGEST grin on his face! I love that pic! Well, I looked at it, and smiled, and said, "Oh, silly man, look how happy you look. I can't wait to see you smile like that again." Then, I was overtaken by the most SADNESS I ever felt!! I felt like I couldn't stop CRYING! Just a complete turn-around in just a matter of seconds! I was sobbing, "Oh, H what are you doing?!? Lord, please help him see the way." and I cried for about 10 minutes before I could stop. I went and put the clothes away, and sat down to compose myself and have a bite to eat. By now, I was completely fine again (?) and I started to reflect on these "Saturday Events" as I will now call them. You might remember - I THINK I posted last week about the weird things that happened in the car? And me yelling about OW getting OUT of my M, and my g/f having a few "choice words" for my H, etc.? Well, I called her to tell her that Saturdays seem to be Unsettling Days in the Land of Oz, and proceeded to tell her what happened. SHE proceeds to tell ME that SHE just had a "thing" TOO!!!! Now we're both just FULL of goose bumps!!!!! Just about the time I had those immense emotions of laughter turning to crying, SHE had my H "pop" into her head again, and she began talking to him again (just like last Saturday, except she was saying different stuff to him.) Basically today, she was saying, "Lupo's H, GO HOME. Your W is cooking dinner now, and you need to LEAVE where you are, and GO HOME. It's time to stop all this foolishness now, leave this OW, and go home to your W."<P>We both laughed and cried about that. We KNOW God is doing SOMETHING, but NO IDEA what it is. Now we must pray my H doesn't "harden his heart" toward God. I don't think he will. I mean, my H reminded ME that we "really need to start going back to church" JUST A WEEK before he left!! I believe he was already under tremendous conviction about the sin of what he was doing, and can only stand it so long before God pulls out all the stops. Maybe He already has!<P>Anyway, free will! HA!!! The old saying, "man plans, God laughs" is STILL true.<P>Lupo<BR>

Hi Lkd, ive had similar occurences during the early days of my seperation. It was God way of steering me in the right direction and keeping me there when i wanted to go in another direction. God was also dealing with my own freewill as He is with all of ours that are standing. We seem to forget our own freewills in our situations are just as powerful as our prodigal mates. God made us and He knows how to break us. No ones freewill can come againts God soverign and mighty will, contrary to popular belief. It just makes a difference on how painful its going to be for us if we dont get the message God plainly gives us. <P>Read Romans 9:13-26 Its about Gods soverenty and purposes and how we are really powerless in altering Gods will. <P><BR>I believe it is a high calling to stand for the restoration of a marriage, because it seems very few are called or heed the call. God takes it very serious. In the midst of our trials we tend to forget that and wonder if God really is for us or is He going to do anything. <BR>The enemy has but a short time. During the time between our seperation and restoration we are waiting on answers to our prayers. That is the time we are most vulnerable and our adversary knows it and declares all out war on us to get us to not believe God cares, answers prayers, or the lies that most of us have heard many times that its probably just not Gods will. Ive heard all the lies and then some.<BR> <BR>God allows our trials to see if we trust Him and the truth or are we still listening to the lies. What has helped me greatly thru a lot of this is the fact that if the enemy has made such great efforts and elaborate plans to destroy my faith, hope and love then even the enemy believes and knows God is going to restore my marriage and that the Lord has a purpose for me that destroys the work of darkness.<P>Dont not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.<P>Lkd, your moving in the right direction. Dont give up 5 minutes before your miracle. <P>Mark<BR>

Mark,<P>You said "Dont give up 5 minutes before your miracle."<P><BR>Are you in on something with that????<P><BR>Your posting was the most in line with what my friends have told me. That only God would use scripture to confirm what he said. Only God would confirm restoration through friends and no less than 3. <P>Only God. But God forgive me there's that 1% that is niggled to death with But what if??<P>I am particularly bothered by the threat of women. I have been through that betrayal before and personnally, I would rather have my throat cut. No joke. It's like someone splaying your heart open and then spitting on you,and laughing about it. <P>I prayed about this as well and each day ask God to protect my marriage bed and its sanctity. <BR>And God said " that is not a worry for you. I asked but....<BR>It's not a worry for you. Let go. Wait.<P>Today I prayed a lot about this and about my anxiety which is coming down but my hands shake and I feel really distraught inside. Scary. <P>Something is going to happen soon. He said not long child. Not long. And I keep feeling like this is going to be really really big. <P>He has assured me that it's not women. Which would probably put me in the psych ward. <BR> <BR>Mark, please pray that my weak faith is strengthened. I know that fretting over it allows evil to grow. But all that I have been through in my life, honestly, my husband was the only person that I really,really trusted,until now.<P>Now, I have found 3 friends,2 of which are my closest neighbors and once someone has seen your face swollen,red and your hair stuck up, and your blubbering,begging for help....<BR>You ain't got no choice-you gotta love em!!!!<P>THis is a powerful lesson.<P>Please pray for me. And post regularly I really need it.<P>I will keep you in my prayers as well.<BR>GOD BLESS US ALL INDEED.<BR>lkd

Allright someone please post something. <P>I am having one doooooozy of a bad day. Had to leave work early and have been crying almost continuously since about 1130am (its now 730pm). <P>Please pray hard for me.<P>lkd<BR>May God bless us all indeed.<BR>

<B>Allright someone please post something. <BR></B><P>LKD,<P>All right, I'm posting now. ALthought there is not much to post, I wanted to let you know that I heard you, and I understand just "letting go" sometimes and feeling like you can't hold on any longer. Someone here posted one time that when you feel like that, just TIE A KNOT in the "end of your rope" and HANG ON!!!!<P>I know it isn't much help, but it's all I got tonight. I guess some days are harder than others. I sometimes feel like we're all "in tune" with each other, or something, because some days when one of us has a bad day, it seems like WE ALL DO!! Have you noticed that? <P>Anyways, we "made it through another one" - which is a small victory, I suppose. I've started thinking that ONE day more on THIS side means we are ONE DAY CLOSER to the "other side".<P>When I start feeling "down" or discouraged, I usually go and "lurk" on In Recovery board. It's fun to see families back together, and "making it" - it gives me renewed hope and resolve that they were where we are, and they made it, and we can too.<P>God Bless you with His presence tonight, and while you sleep, and may tomorrow be a better day!<BR>Lupo<BR><p>[This message has been edited by lupolady (edited July 23, 2001).]

Dear Lkd, I know what if feels like to think our faith is weak during these trials. I believe most people that have great faith or at least seem to or claim to find in these situations it takes more than faith to make it thru. It takes endurence and perseverence. God is growing our faith also annd has told me many times, this is the way. We are dealing with great emotional pain. Even Jesus couldnt carry the cross all the way up thhe hill. He colapsed. <P>Dear Lord, i lift my sister Lkd up to you that you would carry the cross for her the rest of the way. Lord i pray that you would strenthen her and give her the peace and rest to make it thru the rest of the way until her marriage is risen. Lord i pray your healing goes beyond all Lkd ever hoped for or imagined. Lord teach Lkd to allow you to love her husband thru you Jesus. Thank you Jesus for loving us so dearly. In Jesus name, Amen<BR>Mark

Thank you all so much. It has been one very difficult week.Nothing really happened. I just felt like I was heading rapidly towards the psych ward. <P>I had to leave work again yesterday. They day before I left at 1130 and only stopped crying to catch my breath. YES that bad. I got to work yesterday and started pretty fast. Had to leave before 9am!<P>Today has been much much better. I'm not happy,but I really really feel God's presence. Even the counselor said she felt it. She felt it wasn't going to be much longer either-at least me reaching my limit that is!<P>So, a large part of yesterday I spent crying and praying and writing down what I was hearing and I honestly believe that GOD is working here. I have tried to give it up to him so he can complete the job but it's sooooo difficult.<P>Yesterday was a milestone,in that I let go, I have to repeat it now and then but now it's just a calm Lord, please take him back, instead of Please help me. I want to die NOW!!!!<P>We will see how it goes. I honestly feel it won't be too long. I believe that is what God has been telling me. Not long (and I'm always specific in what I pray for!!!)<P>I will keep you all posted and continue to keep you all in my prayer's as well.<P>May God Bless us all indeed.<BR>lkd

Lkd, Your stories are always good to hear and I really like your company. I'm glad you found some new friends, in the "offline" world too.<P>Going back to Lupo saying that it will be sooner than Christmas: weird again but I had the same feeling. So let's not waste any time changing ourselves!! I have to get organized - what do you have to do lkd ? And you Lupo? And you Mark? <P>If they walked in the door right now would you be ready? Have we really forgiven? Can we be light and a little flirty? Can we laugh with them again? Can we brush off their unfaithfulness and put it at the same level as our faults and MEAN it? Do we have our acts back together in our roles?<P>Last night I cleaned out two closets... that was my big job.<P>I still have a BUNCH to do, but I'd better hurry because what if the time's up?<P>Let's all get ready! Are we going to give them a party? Cook a favorite meal? Buy a gift? Wear a new perfume or new outfit? What are we going to do?<P>Let's have a little fun thinking of those good things and remember we have to prepare spiritually for this as well as physically...<P>Hang in there lkd. I had some horrible days at first but they will get fewer and farther between and in the middle, you get to feel the love of the Creator - too great.<P>Lord, please let lkd laugh really hard today. Let her feel Your Divine love and Mercy.I ask this in Your Holy Name. Amen.

<B>Going back to Lupo saying that it will be sooner than Christmas: weird again but I had the same feeling. So let's not waste any time changing ourselves!! I have to get organized - what do you have to do? </B><BR>Ooooh, boy!! This is getting really WEIRD now you guys!!! I have been asking myself that question all week!!! In fact, NOW I've started saying, "NOT YET, LORD, I"M NOT READY!!" I know I have to get the rest of the stuff from our move put away....I put away about 95%, BUT there's still a few things lying around. In fact, just before I got on line, I looked around and said to myself, "This is it. This stuff WILL all be put away THIS WEEK-END." Then a "voice" in my head said, "Yes, the clock is ticking...." SEE???? I KNOW the time is short.....NOT Christmas.<P><B>If they walked in the door right now would you be ready? Have we really forgiven? Can we brush off their unfaithfulness and put it at the same level as our faults and MEAN it? </B><BR>Yes, I honestly can say I HAVE completely forgiven. I KNOW that won't be the biggest problem here. I WILL probably break down and cry, I AM hurt. But I don't see that as a big LB'er. I think he NEEDS TO KNOW how much I've been hurt. That will only draw us closer, if he knows that and can ask for forgiveness, and know he's got it, because I've got to ask HIM for forgiveness, too!! I know what my sins were in our M. I know what I did (or neglected to do) which created the climate that led him to A. I need to ask HIS forgiveness for that, too.....and I will.<BR>The big "deal-breaker" here is the dogs. He basically "ran away" from here because he HATED taking care of our 6 (YES, 6) dogs. It's my fault we have 6 dogs. He has been saying for about a year that he wanted to get rid of the dogs, but I ignored him....I figured it would happen eventually (HOW???? BY ITSELF????) I don't know. I guess I just didn't really understand HOW (to what extend and depth) he HATED taking care of them. They are still here, unfortunately. Not because I don't want to get rid of them, but because they are not easily placed. They are part wolf-part dogs, and they are NOT pets. It isn't easy to find places who want them, who are equipped to handle/care for them. There are other extenuating circumstances which prevent me from going to wider circles to look for help with this. I'm not comfortable sharing that info at this time. Suffice it to say that I'm trying to do this "quietly and privately". And it's difficult to do, we live in a very small place, a rural area, where dogs are USEFUL or they are not kept, so no one around me can help much, and as I said, I cannot go on line, or public to do this. H knew this, and wasn't much help in finding homes....blamed ME for not doing it. But, as I started this paragraph with: the "dog" situation is the "deal breaker" - IF he called today, I know the first condition that he would want would be "I cannot come home if the dogs are still there...." Funny, huh? Coming from the person who LEFT to go have an A?!?!?!?!<P><B>Can we be light and a little flirty? Can we laugh with them again? Do we have our acts back together in our roles?</B><BR>I'm not sure this behavior will even be a part of our lives for a very LONG time after they are back....I think the need to open up, talk, learn, talk, study the MB materials, talk it over, Plan A, etc. will be the only joint activity we will share. I sense that MOST WS's come home, reluctantly, angry, and genuinely depressed, only "going through the motions" of their normal lives for a very long time. I think we need to be prepared for that behavior, so we don't expect too much too soon.<P><B>Last night I cleaned out two closets... that was my big job.</B><BR>Having JUST unpacked into a new house, everything is cleaned and put away!!! Well, except for the above mentioned couple of boxes of stuff yet to be unpacked. I just plain GOT TIRED and quit!! I will get right back on it this week-end, tho. "The clock is ticking...."<P><B>Let's have a little fun thinking of those good things and remember we have to prepare spiritually for this as well as physically...</B><BR>Again, I'm trying to be prepared to deal with a VERY DIFFERENT man than the one who I last spoke with on May 24, who at that time was ALREADY racked with guilt. I'm trying to "picture" how I will deal with depression, profound sadness, anger, guilt, remorse, and any other things our Lord has laid on his heart. I feel as prepared spiritually as I can be. But I still don't know if I can go to this "new place." emotionally. I've become accustomed to this "way of life" - this ALONENESS. NOW - We are sooo very close to a change, a new "way of life" - I FEEL IT!! And I DON'T feel ready for the changes this will bring in my own emtions.... I've actually begun to pray for the Lord to make me ready to deal with the CHANGE that will come with the "contact" that will soon take place, while admitting that I almost DON'T WANT things to change!! Weird, huh?<P>I mean, change can only mean H coming home soon (OR D is imminent ) and I don't feel ready for either change. I kind of feel "comfortable" where I am now. I am now praying for the Lord to protect my emotions. I DON'T WANT another rollercoaster ride, but that's what's about to happen...brace yourselves.<P><BR>Lupo<BR>

Am i ready for my wife to come home and my family to be back together? Im not sure. I like the honeymoon stage and im starting to become scared that when my wife is ready to come home that we may run into at least financial problems cause she still hasnt grown enough in the compulsive spending area-lol. But praise God she hasent been late once in the last 9 months since we started seeing each other again and believe me when i say that is a miracle. She calls on time, when i pick her up shes on time or even early. That just never happened before. She was always late and we were not getting along it was hours or days sometimes. Its what i disliked the most about her. Please Lord let this continue...<P>Im at a place where im at peace with Gods timing. Im in no hurry and i would be ready tommorrow. The lord seems to be putting it all together after 3 years and at this rate we probably will be back together by Christmas. Still i trust in the Lords timing and try not to place a time frame upon the Lord. <P>God does heal our hearts and i never thought it was possible after what ive been thru and you dont have to move on so to speak for it to happen. I dont believe people really heal when they move on to another relationship after they give up. They generally use the new relationship to hide behind. Ive seen it to many times to know better. <P>I know most of us have faced impossible situations and the way at times seems more than we can handle but the Lord can handle anything and i believe thats what the bible means. In other words the Lord doesnt give us more than we can handle cause we aint suppose to handle it. We cant. Our part is to humble ourselves before the Lord that we cant handle it and place it in His hands. Its already there anyway. We tend to forget that a lot. <P>I pray that we continue to draw near to God as he draws near to us in our trials while we learn to sit, stand and walk with our Lord. In Jesus name Amen.<BR>Mark