Thank you to the people that respond to my anger directed at you by the betrayer post, I am sorry for making three topics out of it, but I wanted to reach others who felt that they were losing it as well as those that had to deal with anger issues.... I want to tell you guys that I feel a HUGE relief...in the middle of all of this questioning yourself and intense emotional burden (and THATS putting it lightly) you start to feellike you are losing your mind when you get the responses you get from the person who has betrayed you AT TIMES you go broken hearted into a confrontation with them KNOWING whats right as you are beelding to death TRYING to save what they have all of a sudden been unable to see anyomre YOUR LIFE TOGETHER and as if an affair was not enough to make you go crazy they FUEL it by irrational behavior and responses which you are over sensitized too...can't take it it feels like sometimes....BUT I have jsut seen the light to understand that we are dealing with sick spouses / mates and it is NOT about us...granted factors that lead to affairs are about us, but come on there are many things you can do to resolve boredom or lack or need meeting other than take off and get emotioanlly and mentally screwed up in an affair...*phew* (wiping forehead ) I guess what I am trying to say is YES we have a right to hurt YES we are in pain and YES we are RIGHT ON on what is RIGHT and what is WRONG and don't let the irrationality derail you....convincing yourself of this is the hardest thing belive me, you have to go through all of the self doubt and anger..i am at about 5 months of it now..BUT if you approach this from the standpoint that THEY are NOT WELL ...(and neither are you as you've been hurt, but it's different than their mental breakdown)..BUT....everythign you feel is RIGHT ON ...and DON't let the irrational sick partner convince you otherwise...IN FACT...calmly standingyour ground (as friggin hard as that is when you want to rip their head off) is the most disarming and effective thing you can do...as it solidifies that you are not going to cave to their bull**** and after enough time two things happen they either begin to GET it or they don't..but most times they do...AND you can save much of your sanity as their is NOTHING worng with RIGHTEOUS OUTRAGE on your part....it is a becasue you are trying to defend yourself and them and your life and family and as small and weak and powerless as you feel at times...holding onto that in the end will make you realize, although you cannot see it in your darkest times (oh God have I been there feeling like a mouse) you end up feeling so strong and you look back and say DAMN, I WAS right and I'm STILL here and I MADE it AND I'm STILL saying the same things to that irrational person who is now starting to ACTAULLY listen...as I didn't waiver and in all of thsi torture (which I asked myself why do I ahve to go through this..and what an injustice and so on) ends up being the strongest proof of love you can ever give to another person and to yourself, no matter what happens...to summarize..pain after all of this crap and severe distress (unfortunate as it is..as I am the class A student of it) ARE normal..THEY ARE NOT! Stick to your guns kids, to keep your head together, DON'T internalize their bull****, it drains your life giving energy.....I hope you understand what I am saying...and I have been through the most destructive time, the deepest of depressions and the mind challenging process of not going insane or havign anervous breakdown...I wish I had of known then what I am saying to you now...I hope it helps someone....all my love and prayers, trust in God and give up to him on a daily basis what you can't handle...often times when I would obsess to the point of craziness, I would just say to Giod, I'm done for today, the day is over, take all of this away from me I'm going to sleep...and every morning when I was caving I would look in the mirror and I would say to myself " I CHOSE health, I chose strength, I'm going to get there and I'm not going to let this get me...and I trust in God..." And it was SO SO hard, but I just kept syaing to myself NO..I WON'T GIVE IN...little did I know I should of just said "there's nothing worng with me...it's my parnter who is ill..." Anyways! I'll shut up now....I hope I helped somebody! love ,,ME.

Absolutely. I get exactly the same thing from my W, that I'm crazy because I tell her that I saw her with the OM. And because our couples counselor was siding with her (we finally stopped going when he recommended that we split), I got a few psychiatric labels slapped on me by him too, so that I was supposedly not only crazy but certifiable. That was the hardest part of it.<P>If you'll excuse the expression, the word for this sort of treatment from someone is "mind-f*cking" because that's exactly what it is. One example is when my W claims that I'm making up a story when I tell her I saw her with the OM. Well, the other night, I also told her that that's what she's doing by trying to make me out to be crazy. What it really is, is an absolute denial of reality. I finally realized that anyone who would do that is one VERY sick puppy. It's been hard for me to conclude this about my W because I love her so much, but I've been forced to.<P>It's the same with all addictions. The addict just denies and denies and gets angrier and angrier when confronted. Regards and blessings,<P>--Wex

OH WEX!!<P>LISTEN! I am lets start from the beginning...I've been told..Clinical depressed (NO **** HE'S ****ING SOMEONE ELSE) BIPOLAR (ie ) MOODSWINGS I'm sorry I'm supposed to be calm cool and collected inthe middle of this NIGHTMARE! Damn STRAIGHT I'm going to be PISSED OFF at times...and depressed alternating..HELLO! I'm HUMAN...ALSO CODEPENDENT..Hmmm...So I want my partner to be with me and not SHARING his affections time and everything else with a ****ING LOVER..and THATS COdependent? Maybe I should be so friggin self sufficent I don't need a RELATIONSHIP at ALL becasue I can fully neet all of my own needs ALONE!..yeah...crzy ****, I said to my Phd counselor the other day..LOOK when does this become about two people who love eahc other, one is cheating and it's tearing me up and I am going througha ll of the natural feelings about it? When do we analize everything from here to kingdom come and when do we say I LOVE YOU I'M HUMAN YOU ARE DESTROYING ME *******! *sigh* I think sanity is what it's called... all my love....*grin*

You're going to be OK joesbestfriend...<P>Your a little high on what we've all been telling you... but your OK! <P>Come down slowly...<P>Catch your breath... that was a long post...<P>Try a little inspriation from one of my previous posts... click here...<A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/009772.html" TARGET=_blank>Friends... Take Time</A> or <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/009900.html" TARGET=_blank>Friends... Believe in Yourself</A>.<P>Jim<BR>------------------<BR>I can dare myself... I'll put a pebble in my shoe...<BR>I can walk... I can walk! I shall call the pebble Dare...<BR>Dare shall be carried... And when we both have had enough<BR>I will take him from my shoe, singing... "Meet your new road!"...<BR>Finally glad... Finally glad... That you are here... By my side...<p>[This message has been edited by NSR (edited November 24, 1999).]

plese read the third post it may help you

AMEN!! RIGHT ON JOESBESTFRIEND!