Ok, I haven't been here for a long time. We are rapidly spiraling toward the final D day Dec 3. He is still living with OW right across town. They have lived together this time since June, the first two times were 5 and 6 weeks respectively. We have barely spoken since then. Then two nights ago he called wanting my SS# and each of the kids said he was filling out an increase of life insurance at work and needed our #'s, said he was making me primary beneficary, and then the kids. He called from a payphone and not at break time from work,,,he usually calls the kids on OW cell phone at break time once a week. Am I crazy thinking she doesn't know about this? I have kept such a distant since June , should I one last time, let him know by letter or in person,,how much I want this marriage to be restored...He has been gone over a yr and since Easter has shown no signs of wanting any kind of reconcilation. Should I let him go without any further talk??<BR>

{{{{{{{{{{cbs}}}}}}}}}}<P>This is a hard one for me to reply to...<BR>It looks like I'm heading down your same path... <P>My W has been out since 8/28/99 and looks like she is very happy where she is...<P>But anyway... some questions of you first... <P>Are you in a long-term Plan A?, or Plan B? (if so... any Plan B letter sent to H?), or something else (H's Plan B?)... ?<P>How often does he contact the kids?... Any current visitation setup?... Does the visitation involve your interaction?...<P>Now for my comments (for what they are worth)... and I try to be a strict follower of <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3000_intro.html" TARGET=_blank>Dr. Harley's Concepts</A>.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Marital recovery cannot begin until withdrawal has ended. (page 68 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>... In your case... (as well as mine)... withdrawal hasn't even started!<P>If you were in <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Plan A: Avoid angry outbursts, disrespectful judgments, and selfish demands (i.e. <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Busters</A>!) at all costs (page 75 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>... with <B>so little contact</B>... there was no building of either your or H's <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3200_love.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Bank</A>.<P>If your in <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Plan B: Avoid contact with the wayward spouse until the affair has ended (page 79 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>... the "hopeful goal" of guilt kicking in... might not have worked... or needs more time... But.. the other goal of giving you a chance to learn to improve yourself... and if reconciliation was not meant to be... to become the independent person... is what you need to strive for.<P>It doesn't sound like you're at the stage of just wanting to let go... that's OK... I don't know if I'll ever get there either!<P>If your not in Plan B... go ahead and write the letter ("how much I want this marriage...")! With no <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Busters</A> though... If written with love... It can't really hurt... you or your chances to get back your H.<P>I prayer for you and your kids! <BR>I prayer for your husband! <P>Have a loving Thanksgiving... (I hope with your kids!)... <BR>Mine will be with my W and OM(and his family)... oh boy.<P>Jim<BR>---------------------------------<BR>Where two or more are gathered...<P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by NSR (edited November 24, 1999).]

Hey CBS,<P>Jimbo said it all. How does he do that?<P>Wer'e all here for you.<P><P>------------------<BR>Wishing us all the Best.<P>Medic<P><BR>

Medic...<P>Jimbo <B>does it</B> by having a ".txt" file opened in "notepad" and I just copy and paste... <B>and</B> of course try to customize...<BR>Not everything is in the books... sometimes it's in the heart... sometimes it's in the mind. <P>If you want the file... let me know... I'll email to anyone. I am continually updating it with little tidbits.<P>Jim (imherczeg@yahoo.com)

Well, I was in Plan A, back in Oct last year,, then into Plan B in Jan,,,by march he wanted to reconcile for the 2nd time, but by Easter she wrote him a love note and he was off again. This time filing for divorce after 6 weeks.He was seeing the kids very little, now the past 2-3months every other weekend and one day during the week. But the past month he has them sat-sun calls on monday , calls on wed, gets them on thurs. calls sat , calls on monday gets em on tues..I guess you can say I am in a modified B...I try to avoid contact, but when it is made I am very polite and no accusing. He has even called two times in one day somedays..We had it set up for him to call on Wed. so the kids could answer the phone..but anymore I never know when he is calling. I guess because I am confused as to where I should be...in the plans..A or B or what since we have been that route? The book said give it 18 months once being exposed, but golly in the book Plan B worked and was final,,so where, what do I do now,,,I love him and I want him to come home and work on this and be a father to the kids. But.... maybe this will never happen just so confused as what to do..Contact...no contact...you know.Thanks all.

NSR,<P>That's not really what I was referring to. [Although I had no idea how you did that either, Can you say computer illiterate?] You seem to be very well versed on Dr. H's principles and I take my hat off to you. You seem to be a really a great guy.<P>Your W is the loser in this situation.<P>------------------<BR>Wishing us all the Best.<P>Medic<P><BR>

This is by far the <B>most difficult</B> question to answer... Plan A or Plan B? (and how long for each?...)<P>There are the rough guidelines in the book(SAA)... 6 months of Plan A... (after discovery)... and then 18 more months of Plan B. And then like magic all will be solved... (it just doesn't always work that way for everyone!... or for anyone!)<P>Some people will need to go into an immediate Plan B... (no time of Plan A)...<P>Others will have a long extended Plan A... 1 year... 2 years... or more... <B>You long term Plan A-er's on the forum... chime in here!</B><P>Others have a long extended Plan B... (yes into the years...)<P>Those that have tried that "modified Plan A/B"... just my opinion now... have not had much success (this is a generalization on my part... specific examples you can ask of other will be valuable.) Again, my personal opinion is that a more strict adherence to a "tougher love" Plan B is more effecive... that is... <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Plan B: Avoid <B>all</B> contact with the wayward spouse until the affair has ended (page 79 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>... all contact means all contact! This is so very hard for <B>everyone</B> who has tried it.<P>I don't want to discourage you at all...<BR>but this is just what <B>I</B> have read in the posts for the short time I've been here. Is it possible to continue with a "more resolved/focused" Plan B for you?... How much longer?...<P>Did you ever send your H a "How to break off relationship with spouse (Plan B letter on pages 80-81 of SAA)?" There was a good sample letter "Chris" drafted on a post by brownphdt... see <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/009414.html" TARGET=_blank>Sample Plan B letter (see Chris' reply)</A><P>My prayers are with you... <BR>As I've said before... I think I'll be following you on just this kind of a journey.<P><BR>SAA:=<A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6070_sa.html" TARGET=_blank>"Surviving An Affair"</A> by Dr. Willard Harley<P>Jim<BR>------------------<BR>I can dare myself... I'll put a pebble in my shoe...<BR>I can walk... I can walk! I shall call the pebble Dare...<BR>Dare shall be carried... And when we both have had enough<BR>I will take him from my shoe, singing... "Meet your new road!"...<BR>Finally glad... Finally glad... That you are here... By my side...

Yes, I sent the letter back in December of last year,,then 8 weeks later he contacted our mediator and wanted reconcilation..For 3 weeks he went to counseling told me how much he wanted our marriage to work,however he did not quit his job where she works,,he put in for a shift change, but before that happened she wrote him a love note and off he was again. I can't shake the feeling our marriage in NOT over, Even though he moved her here to our town. He does not bring her over when picking up or delivering the kids home. He does not keep anything of the kids at his apt. He brings all of whatever he buys for the kids back here, he still has mail delivered here not a lot but one bank statement continues to come here..I don't think OW knows about. It has been a few months since I tried talking to him more than what time are you picking up the girls. But back in July. I said..."Well, with you starting a life with OW" and he interrupted and said who said I was starting a life with her..Then I said later in the conversation...You tell her you love her don't you..and he said YES,,cause she wants to hear it. He just reminds me of a scared rabbit that got out of the cage and he ran to the open field , he is scared in the field but is scared to get back in the cage too. I don't have anger toward him. I just want to get this marriage back on track. and yes I keep thinking 18 months, 18 months, and i have a little ways to go before that 18 months.Thanks for your input.

cbs...<P>Ok... here is a quote out of the book <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6070_sa.html" TARGET=_blank>"Surviving An Affair"(SAA)</A>... <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>(#4.) If the (betrayed) spouse follows the plans (A & B), and they(the plans) fail, the (betrayed) spouse would no longer have any feelings of love for the wayward spouse. (page 76 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> ...to make a possible divorce less painful... and to end the relationship.<BR>...to that end... it seems to me that...<OL TYPE=1> <BR><LI> Either your Plan B needs to be a more <B>NO CONTACT</B> kind of plan... or<BR><LI> There is more time you need to give into your plan... since... you still have love for H... <BR></OL><P>In regard to a stricter adherance to the "NO CONTACT" rule... maybe another... more forceful Plan B letter needs to be resent?... and then some <B>very</B> firm resolve for <B>absolutely NO CONTACT</B>!...<P>Again, these are my (own personal) ideas...<BR>Ask others...<BR>Think it through...<P>We're here to support you... <BR>God, I know I'll need that support when it's my time...<P>Note: Thanksgiving, holidays and weekends are very slow at this forum... they'll pick up during the "work week"... I'm not the only one here... honest... <P>Jim

Hi CBS -<P>I would say to go with your gut feelings on whether you should talk to him or not.<P>With a divorce date so near...does it matter about A, B, etc? If you have things to say or ask at this point than now's the time for it. You have to do what you feel YOU need!!!<P>What does your instinct tell you? <P>Hugs,<P>Sheba