Tonight my wife and I decided that we both feel like we can't be entirely honest about our feelings on this site. We would like to get real advice and info from you, but feel as though we can't be completely open due to the fact that we know that the other one is going to read it. We have made a choice to not read each others postings for a period of three days. Please don't kill our decision with dissapproval everyone...okay? In light of this, I am going to drop this bomb and I hope you don't all drop me. Since Chrissie came back from holidays, I have spoken very personally with her. I have told her that I am still absolutely in love with her, and that I want to be with her again. I am at a place where I am seriously questioning life with Nicole, and what I want from our future. I have been feeling this way for several months ( and actually had some doubting thoughts for the last two years). I do love Nicole and my children, but I am not happy. I do not feel all of the good feelings that we used share. This is largely based on the fact that I have realized how different Nicole and I are. She is very grounded in her faith, where I do not believe that a loving "God" would ever leave us to try and survive on faith. I would never lock my child in a room and let them simply think that I was outside, but never actually letting them hear me, or feel my hug. I can not believe that a true god would ever let us hurt because of "free will". I do not let my children get hurt because it's their choice. I physically speak to and teach them what hurts and what is ok. Enough about that. That's a whole other can of worms. We differ in the things that we like (hobbies, vacations, friends, movies, sex, etc.) sometimes to the degree that we have really horrible arguments. I have a lot in common with Chrissie that I don't have with Nicole. I am not saying that Chrissie is perfect or anything. Just different. I have huge guilt beause of my feelings about my wife. I feel like my decision to work on things was to ease the pain that I saw in her when I told her about my "affair". I must say that on the flip side of this, I also worry about Chrissie's intentions with our relationship. I know and truly feel that she loves me, but I am also aware that she loves her husband. I don't know if she would ever leave him. I fear that through all of this pain that I am causing Nicole, I will end up alone. I am not entirely sure that this isn't another reason that I am hanging on. I am sure that I have found a woman, in Chrissie, that I can honestly connect with. Nicole and I were married when I was 19. We met on a ministry team that traveled around giving retreats, and youth conferences. Our attraction for each other was based on our deep rooted faith. As I have stated already, my faith is NOT the same. I believe, sometimes, that Nicole is holding on to us, because of her faith in our vows, more than her faith in my love. I have always felt like I can't be the one to let anyone down. I have to say that today I feel like I am letting a lot of YOU down. I also think that I am letting my family down. I have to feel true to myself and that means that I acknowledge the connection that I felt to Chrissie the first day that I ever talked to her on the phone. I fell in love with her heart before I had ever met her "face to face". I hate to say that I have always been a somewhat shallow individual. I have NEVER even considered any kind of attraction to anyone that wasn't physically appealing. Yet, with Chrissie, I had fallen completely in love with her before I had seen her. We have connected in so many ways that Nicole and I never have in the eleven years we have been married. I can only imagine what you must all be thinking of me right now, and I'm sorry. I really want honest feedback from all of you. Please feel free. Again, I'm sorry Lostva, Mitme, NSR, Chick, and all of you guys that have been there for me. I really suck.<P>Arik.........

Arik,<P>THANK YOU for your complete honesty. It takes alot of courage to bare your soul and open yourself up for criticism. I will not criticize you, but will share my honest perspective back with you.<P>I have been the betrayer and am now the betrayed. The view I share is from my own perspective based on my personal experiences. You are in a tough situation right now. You feel torn by the commitment to Nicloe and the children and your intense feelings for Chrissie.<P>Look at airheart's questions to CNLAA (maybe not the right initials - but you will see his postings). You are being driven by emotions right now - and these in-love feelings are very real and INTENSE. A hard thing to walk away from, right??<P>But, if you act on emotions only, you miss all the things your emotions tend to hide from you - that is why you need to rely on your LOGIC, too.<P>Now, back to airheart's questions. Take a good look at them and honestly assess yourself and your relationship with Nicole. The MOST IMPORTANT piece of advice I can give you is this: realize that what you need to be focusing on FOREMOST is examining your relationship with Nicole. Chrissie should NOT be a factor in truthfully assessing the potential and viability of your relationship with Nicole. Because, IF your relationship with Nicole is not good, has no potential, and you are REALLY unhappy, then it shouldn't take Chrissie to make you want to leave. You should have already been out of the door or at least on the verge. Point here is that you need to resolve the first relationship BEFORE looking at the viability and potential for a second relationship with Chrissie.<P>OK, statistics from several sources show the success rate of second marriage from affair to be 3 - 5% successful. Some pretty ROTTEN stats! Something to think about if you do decide to go through all the pain and devastation to face such poor odds of success.<P>The single thing that strikes me from your post is this - you are already having concern about Chrissie's commitment to you. If she can not commit to you now in the throes of passion, when the feelings you share are at PEAK INTENSITY - can you count on the rest of your life with her???? If not, do you want to throw it all away with Nicole and your kids for a few good years?<P>One thing in your favor - Nicole knows and is willing to accept and move forward with you. Chrissie has some reservations and she hasn't seen you "warts and all", yet.<P>I know I am a proponent for marriage, so my answers are obviously biased that way. But, Arik, I WAS in your shoes once - I had to make this same decision you are making - it is HARD! You as a person don't suck! Your actions right now, because they have been dishonest and destructive, do suck. So did mine once upon a time. <P>One more time: use your BRAIN and your HEART and you will find the right pathway. Examine your personal VALUE system in your assessment. Are commitment to family, honesty and monogamy values you hold dear? They are for me, but I lost my way for a while and did not embrace them. But, yur values will lead you back to the path you need to be on. If it happens and you are with Chrissie, don't you think your guilt will be overpowering and drive a wedge eventually between you and her?<P>I hope you can find at least one thing here to think about. I will be praying for you - I know you are suffering!!!<P>Roll Me Away

Ok, Arik, I'm drinking, tired and stressed, and I need to go to bed fast. BUT....I didn't want to leave w/out your knowing I was here. Remember, we're always here for you.<P>Nothing unusual here, ya know that don't you?<P>You fell in love w/out seeing her. Not a lot different from the tons on internet affairs. Remember, most important emotional needs? Physical attractiveness is only one of many. So, sure, it's EASY to fall for someone w/out ever seeing them.<P>You're thinking and feeling exactly what you're expected to think and feel right now. Remember? You allowed strong feelings to develope. They will continue to be there for a while. This IS withdrawal. Complete w/ justifications and rationalizing. I know, I know, it's different for you and her. OK, fine. Heard it all before. Over and over. The feelings ARE real, Arik. But they were real for Nicole, too. You can't even objectively recall what your real feelings for Nicole used to be right now.<P>I'm not gonna lecture you. You know all the facts by now. At first I was gonna take each part of your post and go through it. You can do that, by now. Honestly. w/out justifying anything. You'll understand all the things I was gonna say anyway.<P>Did you really believe you'd feel much differently than this in such a short time? You know better than that. Especially since you haven't ended contact.<P>I had already guessed before that you hadn't completely (not counting work-related stuff) ended your conversations and contact with her. I figure Patient love had too. You could tell from her posts.<P>It's got to be YOUR decision, you know. This can be the beginning of the end of your marriage, or just a slip up that shows you how very hard it can be. It's up to you.<P>It turned out to be a lot harder than you expected, didn't it? It IS hard. Probably the hardest thing you've ever done. It hurts. It's awful. That's why you stayed in contact with her. I don't think there was any way that ANYONE could have prepared you for it. Now you know. Now you can see what our friends here have been through.<P>Most others felt the same way too, you know. Some are still fighting the battle. It's a big one.<P>Of course you don't feel about Nicole the way you used to. You can't. You can't even accurately remember how you USED to feel about Nicole. Not until you're through withdrawal and are able to WORK on those feelings. Now don't even START to say that your involvement w/ the OW is not interfering w/ your feelings for Nicole. It does, it is. Simple as that. You cannot truly discover what you have w/ your wife while you are still interested in someone else. Plain and simple. The truth. <P>Man, there's a really great old post that I need to find for you. If I can't find it tonight, I'll look for it in the morning. So that you can hear "from the horse's mouth" that your feelings for your wife will only be clear when all others are out of your system. You'll be surprised that almost your exact words have been spoken by others before you. Not saying that you won't discover that you and Nicole should split. Just saying that, as long as you're pining for someone else, you can't see the answer clearly.<P>So, do a very sad friend (it's been a rough day) a favor, ok? Be strong tonight and tomorrow for me until I can get my head together and find what I'm looking for. And listen to all the others who will write in and make a lot more sense than me.<P>Deal?<P>Talk to you tomorrow.<P>Lori<P><p>[This message has been edited by lostva (edited November 26, 1999).]

"I would never lock my child in a room and let them simply think that I was outside, but never actually letting them hear me, or feel my hug. I can not believe that a true god would ever let us hurt because of "free will". I do not let my children get hurt because it's their choice. I physically speak to and teach them what hurts and what is ok."<P>So you want God to treat you like a child???? Sounds to me like your acting like one. I think God knows your not a child and isn't about to step in and tell you what to do with your life. You want to throw 12 years of your life away on Chrissy, that is your choice, not Gods. Be an adult and be responsible.<p>[This message has been edited by TimJ (edited November 25, 1999).]

Oh, I am so sorry that you are at this place with your emotions - in confusion.<P>Okay, so your faith is wavering.... and you aren't hearing answers from God.<P>Please, do not take offense - I really appreciate your truthfulness, and am really admiring the way you were able to say what you felt, and even put them into words. That was a toughy, and you did a great job.<P>But, in the Bible, the last book of the old testament (Malachi) - God speaks of you. He says he is a good father, but he will not answer your prayers when you don't treat your wife right.<P>And, forsaking your wife and falling in love with OW was not only against your wife, but against God. And this is why he won't answer your prayers.<P>Get your relationship right with GOD first, and then - the confusion will go away.<P>TNT

Arik...<P>Please don't apologize to me... <BR>You have only one person to apologize to... you know who that is...<P>Arik... <B>YOU'RE AN ADDICT</B>! <BR>And damn it... what's more... we <B>all</B> love you! <P>No matter what we say to you... can you remember that... we <B>all</B> love you!<P>Chrissie is your addiction... <P><B>Addicts are not happy!</B><BR>..."but I am not happy"<P><B>Addicts have no <I>faith</I>... just in what they are addicted to!</B><BR>..."As I have stated already, my faith is NOT the same"<P><B>Addicts have a lot in common with only one thing... their addiction!</B><BR>..."I have a lot in common with Chrissie"<P><B>Addicts worry only about their addition!</B><BR>..."I also worry about Chrissie's intentions..."<P><B>Addicts live alone!</B><BR>..."I will end up alone"<P><B>Addicts truly feel their addiction loves them!</B><BR>..."I know and truly feel that she(Chrissie) loves me"<P><B>Addicts disconnect from reality!</B><BR>..." Chrissie, that I can honestly connect with"<P><B>Addicts keep no vows!</B><BR>..."because of her(Nicole's) faith in our vows"<P><B>Addicts let their family down!</B><BR>..."I am letting my family down"<P><B>Addicts lose all sense of feeling... and sense of truth!</B><BR>..."I have to feel true to myself"<P><B>Addicts DON'T SUCK!</B>... they are just so damn confused!<P>Now again remember that... we <B>all</B> love you!<P>With all that being said...<BR><B>Addicts need help (and love)...</B><P>We <B>all</B> want to help...<BR>An addict can only get help (professional too)... once they realize they are addicted...<P>When does your realization hit you????<BR>I won't know when...<BR>Lostva won't know when...<BR>Mitme won't know when...<BR>Chick won't know when...<BR>Roll Me Away won't know when...<BR>TimJ won't know when...<BR>trustntruth won't know when...<BR>MENTAL won't know when...<BR>Faith Hope Love won't know when...<BR>WhoDat won't know when...<BR>Chris (CA123) won't know when...<BR>Leah won't know when...<BR>DuncanMac won't know when...<BR>Lone Star won't know when...<BR>loveWASblind won't know when...<BR>new_beginning won't know when...<BR><B>Nicole</B> won't know when... <P>Again, I ask you with all the love in my heart... <BR>When does your realization hit you????<P>Jim<p>[This message has been edited by NSR (edited November 26, 1999).]

I am new to this board and I wished I would have found it sooner. My marriage is over. The divorce is almost over and my H will not give it another chance. The one thing I can tell you is think of your wife. Remember all the wonderful qualities she had and still does that drew you to her. She still is that wonderful person. Find her again. You can't go wrong. The OW is nothing more than a detour on this bumpy road we call life. Family and marriage is a commitment. A hard one that is worth all of your effort. Like a friend of mine always says.....same sh-t different face.....I have a big problem wondering how you can even trust this OW. Will you be looking over your shoulder a year from now wondering if she is doing the same to you that she is doing to her present husband? I am sure you have plenty of the same interests your wife does if you would just open your eyes. Children, family. What is more important? A good movie or a family? I feel like you are using all kinds of excuses to validate your feelings for this OW. Instead of seeing how green the grass is on the other side why not try watering your own lawn. Your wife is worth it.

One soulmate, one distraction;<P>Warning, this is an uncharacteristic post from me. <P>Arik, this was Thanksgiving. Instead of being thankful for a family that obviously adores you, a home, a career and whatever else...you are entirely ungrateful. In fact you are on the verge of throwing it away with both hands.<P>There was a whole lot of ME ME ME in your post, and very little of your commitments and your responsibilities. Push is coming to shove here. What is more important. Your children or being true to yourself?<P>Personally, I think in time you are telling yourself a big lie about your current unhappiness. You are looking outside of yourself for that which makes you happy, instead of changing from the inside out, but enough of those deep thoughts.<P>Even if you are unhappy in your marriage AT THIS CURRENT POINT, how can you justify being "true to yourself" over the vows you made to your wife and the responsibilities you took with your children? How can you choose yourself first?<P>I'm not saying to be miserable. I am saying to pick yourself up, slap yourself a few times and do what it takes to make a happy marriage and a happy Arik. Look at your wife and look at your kids and put them first instead of yourself.<P>If you are weasel enough to try to have your cake and eat it too, then you deserve to be alone. You deserve to watch another man come into your wife's life and take your place and for the most part raise your children. You deserve to be the outsider in your family. You will deserve anything you choose.<P>Choose wisely.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13<p>[This message has been edited by Faith Hope Love (edited November 26, 1999).]

FWIW… It's also late, I'm tired, so consider this a half-post…. I'll try to get more in tomorrow.<P>When I first read this whole, "We're not gonna read each other's posts for 3 days" thing, the first thing that popped into my head was "trolls." But I'd rather err on the side of compassion, and after reading the absolute, sheer heartbreak in Nicole's Mirror Image of this post, I'd rather try to help. (Note to ONE Soulmate… cuz Nicole is it… I'm not cross posting, but you gotta know your WIFE is hurting).<P>OneS… this is <B>CLASSIC</B> addiction. I'm not trying to belittle your situation here, but what you are going through, while it may seem the height of intensity and amazement, is nothing really special or fantastic. It sure <B>seems</B> like it, but I remember it well. What you feel for your OW is <B>OLD NEWS</B> around here.<P>I call it "Infatuation on Steroids." Because that's what it is. The FEELINGS are real, but the person you are attributing them to is NOT. If you look up the word "Fantasy" in the dictionary, there will be a picture of you and Chrissie staring into each other's eyes. <P>Nothing I or anyone here can ever say will convince you of this… I've been here a year, and I have yet to find <B>ONE PERSON</B> who believed it while in your position. I certainly didn't, and unfortunately, you're going to have to go through the same heartbreak I did to find it out yourself. You will have to <B>destroy</B> your wife, and live with it the rest of your life. I would love to save you from that pain, but past experience has shown me that we must all live it. <P>OK… I'm off. I'll try to add more later, but the best thing I can say is… <B>read NSRs post again.</B> This addiction is as real as any which has been addressed in the media. I'm sorry for what you are about to go through. I'm even more sorry for you after you come out the other end, when you try to explain to some poor sap what he is going through, and the guy tries the same justifications on you that you are trying on others right now. You'll sit there in your office just saying, "What a dummy," shake your head and know he'll never listen.<P>It's the height of frustration. Here I am living it…<BR><P>------------------<BR>Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die

FHL… great post… very uncharacteristic, and very well said. You posted while I was composing, and all I can say is…<P>Wow.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die

I have my moments.<P>It is just heartbreaking to watch a family destroyed.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

You ready?<P>You don’t wanna read each others posts, fine. Not up to us to “judge” you over this. However, if ANYTHING is going to get better between you, then “honesty is the best policy.”<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Since Chrissie came back from holidays, I have spoken very personally with her.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>But you CANNOT be honest with your wife about your feelings?<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I am at a place where I am seriously questioning life with Nicole, and what I want from our future.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Uh, probably because you’re having an affair?<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I do love Nicole and my children, but I am not happy. I do not feel all of the good feelings that we used share. This is largely based on the fact that I have realized how different Nicole and I are.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>And most of this came about AFTER you “discovered” Chrissie? MOST marriages are not bad, perhaps something is missing. After one of the spouses meets someone else, then they realize EVERYTHING that was wrong in the marriage. Also, since they are not happy when around the spouse and extremely happy when around the OP, then the problem MUST be the spouse. NOT!<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>She is very grounded in her faith, where I do not believe that a loving "God" would ever leave us to try and survive on faith.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>And He has “left” you how?<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I would never lock my child in a room and let them simply think that I was outside, but never actually letting them hear me, or feel my hug.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I have huge guilt beause of my feelings about my wife.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Hello? This is God speaking!<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I can not believe that a true god would ever let us hurt because of "free will".<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>So are you saying there is no God or what? I don’t understand this statement.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I do not let my children get hurt because it's their choice. I physically speak to and teach them what hurts and what is ok. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>And after you teach them how to go up & down the stairs, you don’t watch them anymore. So when they fall after you have taught them, then it is your fault? You gave them “free will” to use the stairs as needed and taught them how to use them. Or maybe, they weren’t paying attention to you when you were teaching them. Or maybe they didn’t care after a while. Or maybe they were just being careless...<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>As I have stated already, my faith is NOT the same.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>It CAN’T be the same as it was. You have to back off on your faith because of your affair. You seem to realize it’s wrong & it’s hurting everyone involved, but you are still trying to justify it in some way. By reducing the value of God’s role in your marriage and your life, you put less of a burden on you for keeping the marriage together and more justification for the affair.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I believe, sometimes, that Nicole is holding on to us, because of her faith in our vows, more than her faith in my love.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>DUH! You have already stated that your wife is little more to you than the father of your children & a friend. We all were pretty stupid to blindly put our trust in the love of/for our spouses. It’s something you need to nurture and tend. Marriages don’t just “work.” It takes work to get them strong & keep them strong. I believe in my marriage vows more than the love my wife has for me (if there is ANY left). However, I do believe it can & will return if we both take the steps necessary.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>We have connected in so many ways that Nicole and I never have in the eleven years we have been married.<BR>I have a lot in common with Chrissie that I don't have with Nicole.<BR>I am at a place where I am seriously questioning life with Nicole.<BR>I have been feeling this way for several months ( and actually had some doubting thoughts for the last two years)<BR>We differ in the things that we like (hobbies, vacations, friends, movies, sex, etc.)<BR>I am sure that I have found a woman, in Chrissie, that I can honestly connect with.<BR>I have to feel true to myself and that means that I acknowledge the connection that I felt to Chrissie the first day that I ever talked to her on the phone.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Wow, I haven’t heard any of these statements before.<BR>Everything you have said is SO typical! Do not think you & Chrissie are “different.” You’re not. You are so much like every other affair, it is scary. Just like reading a textbook. If you want to end up alone, you are definitely heading in the right direction. And with a strong tailwind. Time to get a new job, forget about Chrissie and MOVE with your Wife!<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

God didn't hide from you; you are hiding from God. Man is the one that put distance between us and God. Sin is what keeps us from him. Don't ever forget that. You are in your room with a lock on the inside of the door keeping God out.<P> It's definately worth the struggle back to God. You can never be happy until you face that. You are trying to fill a void with your un-soulmate, but that will never work because you are ignoring what God wants. You will never find peace until you do what's right. <P>My H is quite a bit different than me. We don't share a lot of the same interests to where I wonder what was so strong at the beginning that I picked him. Deep down I know what that is. I have a calmness around him because his basic personality is what I need. You picked your wife for certain reasons. Appreciate those and celebrate your differences.<P>

Hello Arik,<P>No, I'd not followed your story before. Not until my friend WhoDat posted to you this am. Chances are, you've not followed my story either. I'm one of the "old-timers" here along with my wife, Suse.<P>Can I be blunt? Well, not that you have a choice... Here goes:<P>Soooo many of us have been where you are before. 'Scuse us all if we seem sceptical and jaded about the "soulmate" thing. <P>Please understand that what you're going thru is classic. Said another way...it's typical of the syndrome. Said another way...you're on about Step 2 of a well-known pattern. Said another way...what you're feeling now is not original. Said another way...counsellors such as the Harleys have written books about what you're feeling right now. It ain't real. Meaning, it can't be sustained, nor will it survive.<P>Geezus, I wish someone had said this crap to me sometime ago. I wish both Suse and I had the luxury of a Forum like this years ago. Or, been lucky enough to bump into a counsellor who'd been trained in this.<P>True, you don't know me. And from what I just wrote to you, I can't imagine you'd conclude I'm a caring, compassionate person.<P>But, sometimes I whack in the back of the head is the most compassionate thing someone can give another. I'll risk that you may totally rebel against what I'm saying here.<P>The "soulmate" thing's a bunch-o crap. It's a tidy little fantasy. Been there. Stupid us, eh? <P>If I've got a soulmate, it's the woman whom I've shared a lifetime of experiences with. Both good and bad. Has your wife ever mopped your fevered brow 2 seconds after you puked your guts out? Have you ever held your son 2 seconds after the doctor slit his mother open for a c-section birth? Helped her reach the bathroom in a hospital while on pain-killers from birthing that boy?<P>What are soulmates? I'd say it's gutting it out (literally) in times like that. Not pretty, mind you, but real.<P>Food for thought.

Arik:<P>So much of what everyone has said above is right, and I can't really expand on it. I just wanted to let you know that your feelings are natural. The confusion is so intense in these situations.<P>Let me just remind you that "happiness" is a state of mind. You can be happy or sad in ANY relationship, in any place, at any time. You have to <B>choose</B> to be happy. I can't tell you how hard it is to learn that lesson. You'll never really be happy with <I>either</I> Chrissie <B>or</B> Nicole until you're happy with yourself. But, then, I know you already know that. <P>A quick note on "God" and free will: <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I can not believe that a true god would ever let us hurt because of "free will"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Go back and read this statement again. Do you see the irony in it? We have free will to do what we want, but you don't think God would let us hurt ourselves by exercising free will? What kind of free will is THAT? We can do anything we want . . . <I>except</I> anything that will cause us to get hurt?<P>Remember, Arik, pain and hurt exist to teach us lessons. If we do something and it hurts, we learn <B>not</B> to do it again! Sometimes it takes a few painful episodes for the lesson to sink in, but we learn it!<P>I truly feel for you in this situation. I can't claim to have ever been there, but I know what it's like to be conflicted about something. All I can say is <I>think</I> about what you're doing and, more importantly, <I>why</I> you're doing it. If it's happiness you seek with Chrissie, you may find it in the short run, but some day, you may be back here telling us all the things wrong with Chrissie and what you've "discovered" about somebody else. Learn to make <B>yourself</B> happy and you'll probably find that life with Nicole is much happier than you thought.<P>------------------<BR>/// Lone Star * ///<P>

Arik...<P>Remember I said... we <B>still</B> love you... <P>I know you said your "faith" is not the same...<P>You're wrong... <P>Even if you don't read the rest of this...<BR>(The 12 prayers for a recoverying addict)...<BR>I hope it helps someone...<P>Let it touch you... for maybe just one day? <P>--------------------------------------------<P><B>~First Step Prayer~</B><BR>Dear Lord,<BR>I admit that I am powerless over my addiction.<BR>I admit that my life is unmanageable when I try to control it.<BR>Help me this day to understand the true meaning of powerlessness.<BR>Remove from me all denial of my addiction.<P><B>~Second Step Prayer~</B><BR>Heavenly Father,<BR>I know in my heart that only you can restore me to sanity.<BR>I humbly ask that you remove all twisted thought and addictive behavior from me this day.<BR>Heal my spirit and restore in me a clear mind.<P><B>~Third Step Prayer~</B><BR>God, I offer myself to Thee<BR>To build with me and to do with me as Thou wilt.<BR>Relieve me of the bondage of self, that I may better do Thy will.<BR>Take away my difficulties, that victory over them may bear witness to those I would help of Thy Power, Thy Love and Thy Way of life,<BR>May I do Thy will always! <P><B>~Fourth Step Prayer~</B><BR>Dear God,<BR>It is I who have made my life a mess.<BR>I have done it, but I cannot undo it.<BR>My mistakes are mine, and I will begin a searching and fearless moral inventory.<BR>I will write down my wrongs, but I will also include that which is good.<BR>I pray for the strength to complete the task. <P><B>~Fifth Step Prayer~</B><BR>Higher Power,<BR>My inventory has shown me who I am,<BR>yet I ask for Your help in admitting my wrongs to another person and to You.<BR>Assure me, and be with me, in this Step,<BR>for without this Step I cannot progress in my recovery.<BR>With Your help, I can do this, and I do it. <P><B>~Sixth Step Prayer~</B><BR>Dear God,<BR>I am ready for Your help in removing from me the defects of character<BR>which I now realize are an obstacle to my recovery.<BR>Help me to continue being honest with myself<BR>and guide me toward spiritual and mental health.<P><B>~Seventh Step Prayer~</B><BR>My Creator, I am now willing that you should have all of me, good and bad.<BR>I pray that you now remove from me every single defect of character which<BR>stands in the way of my usefulness to you and my fellows(family).<BR>Grant me strength, as I go out from here to do your bidding. Amen<P><B>~Eighth Step Prayer~</B><BR>Higher Power, I ask Your help in making my list of all those I have harmed.<BR>I will take responsibility for my mistakes,<BR>and be forgiving to others as You are forgiving to me.<BR>Grant me the willingness to begin my restitution.<BR>This I pray.<P><B>~Ninth Step Prayer~</B><BR>Higher Power, I pray for the right attitude to make my amends,<BR>being ever mindful not to harm others in the process.<BR>I ask for Your guidance in making indirect amends.<BR>Most important, I will continue to make amends by staying abstinent, helping others, and growing in spiritual progress.<P><B>~Tenth Step Prayer~</B><BR>I pray I may continue:<BR>To grow in understanding and effectiveness;<BR>To take daily spot check inventories of myself;<BR>To correct mistakes when I make them;<BR>To take responsibility for my actions;<BR>To be ever aware of my negative and self-defeating attitudes and behaviors;<BR>To keep my willfulness in check;<BR>To always remember I need Your help;<BR>To keep love and tolerance of others as my code;<BR>And to continue in daily prayer how I can best serve You, my Higher Power.<P><B>~Eleventh Step Prayer~</B><BR>Higher Power, as I understand You,<BR>I pray to keep my connection with You open and<BR>clear from the confusion of daily life.<BR>Through my prayers and meditation I ask especially for freedom from self-will, rationalization, and wishful thinking.<BR>I pray for the guidance of correct thought and positive action.<BR>Your will Higher Power, not mine, be done.<P><B>~Twelfth Step Prayer~</B><BR>Dear God, My spiritual awakening continues to unfold.<BR>The help I have received I shall pass on and give to others,<BR>both in and out of the Fellowship(family).<BR>For this opportunity I am grateful.<BR>I pray most humbly to continue walking day by day on<BR>the road of spiritual progress.<BR>I pray for the inner strength and wisdom to practice the principles of<BR>this way of life in all I do and say.<BR>I need You, my friends, and (family) every hour of every day.<BR>This is a better way to live.<P>--------------------------------------<P>Jim<BR>------------------<BR>I can dare myself... I'll put a pebble in my shoe...<BR>I can walk... I can walk! I shall call the pebble Dare...<BR>Dare shall be carried... And when we both have had enough<BR>I will take him from my shoe, singing... "Meet your new road!"...<BR>Finally glad... Finally glad... That you are here... By my side...<p>[This message has been edited by NSR (edited November 26, 1999).]

CA123....Have you ever actually, physically heard or seen God? Has he actually and physically given you a hug and said that he would be there for you. I know that he hasn't. Maybe in your head and heart you "might" have heard what you "believe" to be god (though I think it was you human conscience). This is what I mean by saying that a true "God" would not leave us to survive by faith alone. Wouldn't you expect that if he were real, he would be here for us to see in all his glory. Without the mystical story of how it would kill us to see him. C'mon, a "God" that loved us would not let you suffer through times of pain alone...HE would be there to REALLY hold you. Not "send" someone to be there for you, like the friend that happened to show up or the song that happened to come on the radio. He would actually and physically be there for us, just like WE are ACTUALLY and PHYSICALLY there for our children. Like I said...this is a whole can of worms that you will NEVER be able to convince me on.<P>------------------<BR>We stumble and fall sometimes, and that hurts. But it is the most incredible realization when you look and see that it was your spouse that picked you back up......<P>Take care of and Love each other.....Arik<P>

Arik, god is speaking to you, right here, right now...no, not me, but here you are reading this board. chance? satan? i don't think so.<BR>you don't have to BELIEVE that which is TRUE.<P>(hey, can you tell i don't believe in god either?)<BR>that is not the issue, though. <BR>please make the right decision to stay with nicole, at least long enough to give her a real chance. i regret daily that my H did not have the courage to tell me we had problems before he found someone else...i never had a chance!

Now, Arik, calm down. You're reacting out of confusion and frustration right now. We all have to have faith - in something, our God, our love, our families, ourselves. Even in those moments that it feels like no one can "be there" to help us.<P>Everyone came here for a reason - and, my friend, YOU were the reason. That says an awful lot. Honestly, I draw great strength from Chris's posts - on a regular basis.<P>I draw strength from my faith in my friends here, even though I'm never likely to see or touch any of them. <P>I know why you got angry. You do too. Now calm down and take it easy. People are talking to you and Nicole because THEY CARE. And you've got to remember that we're all hurting, too, ok?<P>I know these posts weren't easy to read. They weren't meant to be easy. Just to show you that we care and share our experience and hard-won insight. Take them for what they are, ok?<P>I'll be back later. Hang in there.<P>Lori

Thanks lostva...you are right. I am sorry Chris, for reacting so harshly. Lostva...r u sure you're not my mom? I really don't think your old enough, so don't take it the wrong way. You are an excellent friend. Thanx!!!<P>------------------<BR>We stumble and fall sometimes, and that hurts. But it is the most incredible realization when you look and see that it was your spouse that picked you back up......<P>Take care of and Love each other.....Arik<P>