Well, my daughter is 17 and was devistated when my Ex decided to call it quits. She clung to me and her and I became very close during this time. Before all of this she and her mother had a very close relationship but that changed. Her mother started pulling her back, talking to her about all of this and i think even trying to make her believe that there is nothing wrong with what she did. Now she is back very close with her mother which I think is great but I feel that her mother is coming between my daughters walk with God. She and I have had several discussions about things and I have seen her get upset about my veiws and what Gods word says about this divorce and she gets defensive, even almost to the point of defending her mother. I sort of feel this is natural. I do not want her to condemn her mother. I have expressed to all my children all the time that they need to show their mother love and not to be judgemental. I don't know what to do but show my daughter love and try to be there for her. I don't want to push her away. What do I do?

Sorry that your post got overlooked for awhile. I didn't see it till now.

Adam, I don't have a lot of information here to go on but here goes.....

As you know, divorce hurts kids. I don't need to tell you that you have experienced this first hand!

You haven't mentioned if your wife is a believer or not so I will not assume either way.

What I will assume is that the values she has, versus what you have, differ.

Here is a potential problem that I see, and again, it is from the VERRRY little bit I read here.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
what Gods word says about this divorce and she gets defensive, even almost to the point of defending her mother. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Right here...... you are discussing the divorce with the child? Why? Why would you do that?
EVER! And I mean EVER. This is not something you should discuss. For two reasons. One,
it is in the past. You do not know your ex-wife's heart. Only God knows. You are getting your information vicariously, second hand, from the daughter, based on what happened in the past.

Yes, God is against divorce. But if you use the Word against your ex wife in ANY way to discredit her and make yourself look like the "victim" in all this, you will set up a scenario that will pit your Daughter against or for her. You will hurt your child greatly by this, more than you might realize.

The second reason for not discussing this is the fact that the daughter gets "defensive". Adam, when a child gets defensive it is often because they are feeling pressure.

I encourage you in the Lord to search your heart. You say you are happy that the daughter and your wife now have relationship again, and yet I am making a little of an assumption that some place deep in your heart, you are not as happy as you really know you SHOULD be.

Hey, I can understand this completely. You and your daughter comforted each other through a painful time. You and her understood each other. Now everything must feel uncertain for you again.

Trust me, the very best thing you can do for your daughter is model Godliness and completely close the topic of the divorce with your daughter. Even if she asks you questions begin to close it down. Tell her that it is not something you and her should be discussing.. That it is in the past and you are leaving it with God. That it is a topic for only you and your ex to discuss.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
I have expressed to all my children all the time that they need to show their mother love and not to be judgmental. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You may not like my comment here, but here goes anyway. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Do you know what? Sometimes when we say these things, that is EXACTLY what we are promoting. If I say to my children. "Kids, your Dad really sinned, but now we gotta love him and hope that he'll repent someday." "And I want you to really love him and not judge him". You know what they might hear? DISRESPECT! Big time!
I am also setting these kids up with powerful information to use against their Father and some day excuses for their own bad behavior.

I determined myself, with my ex, that I was still going to honor him as my children's Father, whether or not HE honored me as their Mom.

You see Adam, my ex was/is saying the same things to our boys (now older) and I they were also DEFENSIVE over me. It confused them. On the one hand they were told "mom divorced Dad", so she must be BAD", and yet they are told, "love her and respect her". Do you see what confusion that sets up in their minds?

Before you go back over the fact that yes, divorce is sin ...... think about it this way...... would you want your ex to be telling your daughter all about every single sin you committed over and over again?

Stop talking about the divorce at all ........
Begin to truly esteem your ex and never let your daughter speak badly about her.

I believe as you stop that talk the daughter will feel less need to defend your ex and you will free her up to have a great relationship with her mom.

Hope this helps..

DZZZ

Diamonzzz,

I know you're replying to adamv, but I learned a lesson from this post. I have been doing the exact same thing with my children. I have discussed, asked them how they feel about the situation, asked them if their father asks about me or anything, things like that. Told them that "even though Dad is committing a sin, we should love him anyway". Without meaning to, I have put them smack dab in the middle of this. I am very concerned about them "hanging out" with Dad's OW, I don't want them to be taught that adultery is "ok" and I have a major concern that when they're with Dad & OW, that's exactly the kind of behavior they're going to learn. I never thought about what kind of damage I was doing to their spirituality when I asked them questions about their feelings about the situation.

Thank you for the lesson I learned today. From now on, no more talk about Dad's actions with the children. I have always, though, tried to teach them God's commandments & hopefully those teachings will stay with them. They're old enough to understand what adultery means & hopefully, with the Lord as their guide, will not repeat the same mistakes. I pray that my children will never lose sight of what God wants, regardless of how either their mom or dad acts sometimes. They're smart kids & know right from wrong.

Sorry to hear about your sitch, adamv. I will add your name to my prayer list. Thank you for opening my eyes, Diamonzzz.

I am glad Standing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I had to learn this lesson the hard way.

Consider Jesus. He had every RIGHT to speak against His accusers, but He never did it.

If we do the right thing and honor our children's Fathers/Mothers, God will vindicate.

Plus, when and if God restores the marriage, your children's relationship with their Father/Mother will be intact (not saying there won't be some areas to heal .. but at least we have done our part to maintain that)

The problem is teenagers go through a "normal" phase of pulling away from either or parent. The BS spouse can sometimes interpret that as the child taking sides, when in fact its probably what would have happened had the marriage stayed in tact.

Anyway, it's tough on EVERYONE ..... sigh

DZZZ

Hey Diamonzzz, you are right. I do feel like I am very judgemental about her actions. Especially when, If you knew her a year ago, she was so involved in church and the childrens activities and making sure they where reared with a morally sound upbringing. Everything she did appeared as though she was living for God. But now it's like she does'nt care what the children watch on tv or what movie they watch. What they listen to on the radio, and she even uses profanity. It's like there is a different person living inside her body. They worst pain is that I put my heart and soul into our relationship for 18 years. 1 8 Y E A R S !!!! And then to have her treat me with disrespect and nonloving kindness, even date someone else is very hard to deal with. Then to deal with the lonelyness of missing my wife and children which she did not have to. I may sound bitter but I pray every day for God to help me be forgiving. I was told by our mediator when we went to mediation that she feltvery strongly that my 2 teenagers where coached into deciding where they wanted to call home. How should I feel about that? I was also told in our parenting class that divorced parents should not bring people (dates) around the children until a good bit of time has passed. Yes I do feel victimized but I continually pray for healing and forgiveness. I owned up to my share of fault in the downfall of our marriage but I felt that she could have been more commited. I know I got way off the issue with my children but I wanted to give you alittle background info. I am not going to discuss this anymore with them but i do feel strongly about if they need to discuss things then they need to go to conselling or something. I don't feel that it is healthy if they drag that baggage around with them. Thanks for opening my eyes on some issues. Based on what you just read do you have anymore?

*warning loooooooong* LOL

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hey Diamonzzz, you are right. I do feel like I am very judgmental about her actions. Especially when, If you knew her a year ago, she was so involved in church and the children's activities and making sure they where reared with a morally sound upbringing. Everything she did appeared as though she was living for God. But now it's like she doesn't care what the children watch on tv or what movie they watch. What they listen to on the radio, and she even uses profanity. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You can't change your feelings, but you can learn to not act on them. Being careful what you say to the kids, is the most loving thing you can do for THEM, right now. This is about them right now.

How you treat her and how you model true Christianity is going to speak so much louder then all the lectures and endless quoting of scriptures on divorce, etc.

They want to see that Jesus is real in your life. Are you full of bitterness, anger? Or are you at peace? You can't fake that to kids. Even with all that is going on, they see right through phoniness. They know what is real, and what is just manipulation.

I don't blame you for "feeling" anything toward her. Anyone would Adam. (just don't discuss it with the kids, find someone to vent to, or come here) For real, I am sure not advocating you become Mr. Super Christian. Perfect ex, no feelings. Doormat. Not at all! You have to have some good, healthy boundaries in place.

Have you read the books "Boundaries"? and "Boundaries in Marriage"? If not, it might be a good read for you.

I found in my life, God had to show me I had some very bad boundary problems. They were all mixed up. I had no sense of what stuff was "mine" what was "his" and so on.

It would even be more difficult for you because you were once her covering. How do you go from feeling responsibility for your wife and kids for 18 years, to not being able to have ANY say in her life. It has to be hard. You will get NO argument from me there, Brother.


From what you say here, SHE made decisions and because of her decisions, you are ALL have to pay for the price. Sad. I understand. I really do.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's like there is a different person living inside her body </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> They worst pain is that I put my heart and soul into our relationship for 18 years. 1 8 Y E A R S !!!! And then to have her treat me with disrespect and nonloving kindness, even date someone else is very hard to deal with. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Of course it is. And if you have read much on this Marriage Builders site, it's called "fog". You are exactly right, it is NOT your ex wife ..... she is deceived. I know that is hard to separate but again, that is why I suggest books like Boundaries because bit by bit, you will learn how to separate yourself emotionally from what she does and acts. If you don't Adam, it will consume you. You have to let go emotionally or it will eat you up inside.

It's only been a year. A year is not NEARLY enough time for you to heal. And certainly not enough time for her to come to her senses.

Remember the Prodigal? Things had to get really rough before he realized what he had back home.

I need to say right here though Adam. I am NOT saying that God will MAKE her come home. We all make choices and I am not a person that believes God will restore ALL marriages. I do however, believe that God wants to.

I also believe that even if you don't restore with her in marriage, there is always hope that you can be co-operating parents for your children.

Many on this site believe that if you pray hard enough and believe that it WILL happen, period. I am sorry, I am not one of them. Once there has been adultery, I just think things change. But I believe God will direct you on what YOU should believe for. If you are standing for your marriage, then do it will all your heart. God will reward your obedience. Do what He tells you to do.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> deal with the loneliness of missing my wife and children which she did not have to. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Must be awful Adam, I am so sorry. I remember being away from my kids. NOTHING compares to that pain.

Now to my own story, and some admonishment concerning the kids:

We were also married 20 years. I left him. I had shut down emotionally, many years before. No, I had no "scriptural" reason to leave. No, there were NEVER any cheating on either side. I left because I truly felt that I was dying. There was so much wrong with my marriage and I was tired of trying to fix it all on my own.

I believe God COULD have restored my marriage. I believe Satan destroyed our family. No doubt about it. But, you know one of the big reasons that I never backed off from divorcing him, and not restoring our marriage?

It was because of the horrible way he treated me, "In the name of God", AFTER we separated. He turned into the most vindictive and horrible person I had ever known. And the man never used one foul word, or raised his voice. He did it all through quiet manipulative, using scripture and the "poor me", my wife left me and I was such a GREAT husband ... the victim mentality .. all behind the scenes ......

The boys left with me when we separated and then slowly, systematically, he talked them into moving in with him. He was not set up for having teenage boys... he had a tiny little one-room hovel, but he had convinced himself that they were better off with him.

He was so full of hurt and bitterness that all he could think about was how lonely he was and how much he hurt, that he sacrificed his children's mental health for it. He would talk to them about the divorce, he would show them each and every affidavit.

My kids were emotional wrecks because of it. If I called their home he would have them hang up on me. He told them "God doesn't want you to have to talk to her:". It was awful. He refused
to honor the custody order and share custody. He kept them away from my their grandparents (my folks) because they had help me leave. He had all but convinced the kids through quiet manipulation that I andmy family and all our friends had rejected "them". They literally kept to themselves, just him and the kids, against the world.

My oldest started acting out and having real problems with drinking and stealing in stores ..

I knew it was going on and I tried to talk to my ex about it. He called me and told me that I had devastated my child for lying about his "stealing" and stuff (my son had stolen MY car) ... nothing I said mattered. The kid of course knew the truth, but he was now playing both sides to the middle, as kids often do.

The kids were learning very quickly that they could treat me any way they pleased. My oldest would call me 4 letter words in FRONT of their dad ...... he would always "pray for them" but tell me later, "Well, you DO deserve it you know, you left me". He even sent me tapes and letters with dreams and visions from "God" about how God was gonna vindicate him and get ME! Even though I never stopped serving God at all, he kept telling me that I needed to "repent" and get it right with God. He believed that my relationship with God could not be valid UNLESS I came back. I felt by then I had nothing to come back to? He had no job, he was bitter and angry and I was supposed to "repent"?

He made my life a living nightmare...... sigh ..... all in the name of "the good parent".

I know this is an extreme Adam, but during all this my ex was up at the alter praying for everyone and counseling them and a "shining" example at church. His little group, including the Pastor, was told that I was this horrible, wayward woman. Stories circulated about me going to bars, and men .. etc. All lies. But he never once defended me to the kids. All along, saying "well,kids, just pray for mom". I believe he KNEW in heart it was all lies, but he didn't want to say it cause it was a way to make me look bad, and him look the innocent one.

In the end the lies were found out and my kids realized they had believed lies too, but it took almost 4 years! Four years that he could have set the record straight the first day!

It was about 2 years into this that the Lord had me totally surrender. I came across a site on the net call "Parental Alienation" (you might do a search and find it if you haven't already taken the class-- it has a check list to see if you are doing any of that) and I realized what he was doing to the kids.

I also decided right then and there that I would NOT be a part of that. I was going to honor their Dad as their Dad, whether or not HE honored me. I gave my kids up. I thanked Jesus that they had their Dad and each other and if I NEVER got them back in heart again I would STILL do the right thing. It was hard. Actually the
hardest thing I ever did.

No matter HOW she lives Adam, honor her as their Mother. Begin to speak positive things with your mouth (be careful your motive is not to just get her back) and your heart will begin to follow.

I know you don't respect her right now. I know she is probably doing things that you hate, that SHE once hated, but trust me here, those kids of yours are watching and learning.

My boys are JUST now coming back to God.
They saw so much hypocricy in all this that it has really damaged them.

Refuse to let the kids think either parent is all good, or all bad. That is a dangerous place to be. No one is all good, or all bad. It took TWO to break up your marriage Adam. Be careful to keep you heart open to see your part. You DID have one.

I refused to discuss him. (other than in general upbeat terms) I refused to defend myself. I make a decision that I would not win them back by being manipulative.

I would pray, and I would trust God. I even considered suicide MANY times. I thought that life wasn't worth living without a relationship with my boys.

Over and over I begged God to change my ex. Well, he never did change. He has not moved from his thinking much over the past 4 years.

Who changed was ME! I realized that is the only person you CAN change.

Things today are awesome. God has sooo much restored my relationship with my boys.

I have since repented and asked his forgiveness and we have made peace with each other. But to this day he has not asked me for MY forgiveness for anything he has done. He felt because I left him, I deserved anything and everything he gave out. He once told me that my boys HATED me. He said those words. He might as well have taken a gun out and shot me, it would have felt better.

I am happy to say Jesus restored relationship with my kids. I talk to them almost daily and it's been wonderful.

I am remarried now as well. (another story, another day. ... lol)

One more thing.....

Something you said in your last post reminded me of something my ex would say . .. the boys would
say: "Dad says you are the BEST mother in the entire world, you just have a few problems". That was so destructive when said in context. They heard the words, but they also got the heart meaning behind what he REALLY felt.

My marriage could have been healed and restored. Had he decided to really listen and hear what it was that caused me to walk out that door in the first place, maybe we would be together today.

I am not sure why your ex left? What was she saying at the time? But she must have had some reasons. Sometimes those "reasons" get lost in all the hurt. Sometimes in our pain and feelings of trying to vindicate ourselves and make sense of it all, we forget those.

I don't know if anything I said was helpful but I hope so. I feel like I babbled on .. but I felt I had to share this. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Blessings,
DZZZ

Dzzz,

Where is your ex now? Emotionally and spiritually.

singleguy

SG,
He has had to accept that we are not getting back together now.
I think he's believed I would come back, even AFTER I remarried.

He is working and somewhat "stable". I speak to him re: the boys from time to time.
He HAS gone and made it right with my folks.

He is still in a financial mess, in fact I think it's much worse than 4 years ago. He is one of these types that is always chasing a dream. Right now he's in another scheme to make money ...

He seems to be "better" but it's hard to know, I try to keep my emotional distance. It would not be right for me to have a relationship with him beyond the boys, now that I am remarried.

Physically? He has aged 10 years .. for real ....

What were you wondering?

DZZZ