I will try to keep this short, but you have all seen my posts before <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Before I start; one question and one statement.
The question: When God speaks to you, do you hear a voice different than your own? For me I wonder sometimes, because all the signs God shown me and the things placed into my head (the changes to the Restoration post for one thing) all were thoughts. I rarely heard a "voice" or if I did, it was mine, but the words were His.
The statements (more than one, I lied <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ): 1) A few days ago I had a dream that Marie asked me to make love to her. I don't remember if I couldn't perform or if I woke up before it got that far.
2) I am about to say "an argument". That is negative. What word desscribes when only one person is getting emotional and doing the talking (venting?).

OK. Here we go.
Today, as usual, I made eggs for my D after her regular breakfast with my S. I always make more than the two of us will eat so Marie can have some if she wants. I don't offer though, because that leads to an argument, I mean venting <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> . So as I am cleaning up the kitchen, I told her there was some egg and bagel if she wanted because I made too much. She said "Yes." I continued cleaning. She placed some toast into the convection oven and whenit was done, I took it out because I needed to place in the grill and pans (part of that oven). *I was thinking about placing her toast on a plate, etc., but, I thought that will set her off. So I just placed the toast near her juice. Within 5 seconds, she went off on me. "I can get my own toast. Stop treating me like a baby." I told her I was putting away the grill and pan, I only moved her toast because of that. She understood but.....

The rest of this will just be her comments, in no particular order, as I didn't say a word. I just prayed an "Our Father" and asked God when I should speak.
"You always wanted to spoon feed me. You treated me like a baby. You never took No for answer. I was never going to be what you wanted sexually. i only did those things sexually to you because you called me a "Prude" and I had to prove to myself that I wasn't. You are a lonely soul. Anyone who gets into pornography like you is lonely. That's why you wnet searching for and joining the men's group, and the church, etc. You keep trying to wear me down, thinking I'll take you back. I'll never take you back after all the destructive things you did to me. Your parents never taught you how to treat women. That's why you treat them like babies....
The list goes on.

Then she surprised me with something. She said that she wanted to talk to me but I am always asleep when she comes home from work, so now is a good time as any. She wants to talk to her lawyer about this. She wants to have me redo the basement so I can live there after the D. She says that with the economy the way it is, and there is no equity in the house, this is the best solution financially. Everyone wins. She said, "But I need to win too." With the D she'll be able to find and date another man if she wants. "I'll never be intimate with you again. Of course, you'll be able to do the same. But we have to have boundaries in place. You couldn't/I couldn't bring the OP home." She told me her (my former T) suggested this to her over a year ago. She said I would be able to see the kids every night.
She then got weepy. She is afraid that the children will hate her later on if their lifestyle has to change because of the D. She is also afraid that I am putting God too much into their lives and that she won't be able to relate to them any more.
She wanted to know what I thought about this? "I have to give it some thought", I told her. She was set off again. "You just like to make people suffer. You like to make me suffer." "I don't have an atty, I need to think about this." "Well, when will you have an answer?" "I don't know." Then she continued with her badgering and I told her stop wanting her way. "I thought you would be happy with this. What do you mean, my way?" "Well you want me to answer right now, and I won't."
Then the conversation ended.

I am really <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> . Part of me is happy, I'll still be in the house. Another part of me is <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> because she talks about needed love from another man and that this will give her the financial support to do so. I feel like she only wants me because of the finances and to be a baby-sitter so she can go out. She is sexually frustrated though (as am I) because she constantly says that she will not cheat on the M. Plus I found a V that she has been using.

Now for the positives. She knows that she can't get along financially without me. She feels the C will never forgive her for upsetting their lives (move into an inadequate apt or what have you). She feel the C are moving away from her because of my religious influence. In short, I think/feel God is working on her heart, and she is struggling with her enormous pride.

I do have one major negative thought. Is this just winning the battle (not losing the house and being around the kids) but losing the war (getting D and her seeing other men). In Massachussettes the lawmakers changed the wording on the same-sex marriage bill. They are calling it sam-sex union, figuring this will calm the religious right out there. Am I doing the same here? We are D'd, but we live together in separate rooms and she is sleeping with someone, and I will not.....

Please pray for me for God to SPEAK to me so I know it is Him and not the Devil putting corrupt thoughts and compromises of what M is suppose to me.

Thanks for listening to my short <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> story.

God's Blessings,
tryingTOsaveMYmarriage

OK, TtSMm, I will jump in here quickly, cuase I only have a couple of minutes between shopping trips. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Trying to finish off the Christmas shopping, don'cha know........

First of all, to answer the question about how does God "speak" to me............
Well, first of all, He usually speaks to me when I ask about something specific. But that's not necessarily a good thing. I mean, I should spend more time just listening to God (translation: READING HIS WORD). I will admit to being somewhat lacksidaisical (sp?) on that. I read my Bible, but probably not more than a few times (3? 4?) a week.

I'll admit I'm not faithful to read everyday. When I fit it in, yes, I try to read every morning before getting ready for work, OR after gettting ready, and just sitting for a couple of minutes and reading and praying before dashing out the door (please don't flame me, everybody, I KNOW I'm lazy). Sometimes I try to read a little bit just before shutting off the lights for bed, but I usually can't even focus my eyes anymore by that time (I'm not really a night person, that's why mornings work better for me).

So, in a nutshell, what I am saying is, often, when I've asked God a specific question, then I might get an answer through His Word. Now, just to clarify, it might not come for several days. In fact, I usually forget the question before I get the answer! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

When that happens, I don't realize that's my answer for quite awhile. Soooo, how does God "get my attention"??? Usually, I'll "hear" the same message over and over. Not a "voice" - per se - but the message......someone will say it to me, or like a TV Evangelist/Preacher I'm listening to might say the very thing related to what I've asked. Like that.

Also, I wait to have confirmation. In other words, in my case, I wait to hear the same "message" THREE TIMES. Whether it's from different passages in God's Word, or from other sources (like mentioned above), but I have always asked God to confirm 3 times for me. I don't even know if that's Biblical, but it has given me lots of peace and comfort, knowing I'm not just jumping off willy/nilly based on soemthing I only heard once, and thinking I'm hearing from God. But at least one of those confirmations MUST come from His WOrd.

Now, here's the kicker for me: Lately, God has been trying to show me that What He really wants from me is totally undivided loyalty and attention. Like Joyce Meyer keeps saying, "If you're seeking God whole-heartedly, you don't have to seek blessings, blessings will chase you down the street." I think I heard Charles Stanley say that, too, just the other day. Or maybe it was my preacher at Wednesday night service.....hmmmm, could God be trying to get my attention again? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

To sum all this up, Trying, here's my take on your sitch........but remember ALWAYS - this is only one person's opinion. Take that for what it's worth, and put NO MORE stock in it than that, ok?

I think God wants you to continue to keep your eyes on HIM. I think God IS working on your W, but she is fighting tooth and nail. I think God is trying to build YOU up to be the strong, faithful, loving, protecting H you need to be. I think there are bumps in the road ahead for quite awhile, and God needs YOU strong enough to FIGHT FOR YOUR FAMILY in the spirit and not lose heart.

Also, Joyce Meyer (I LOVE quoting her - she's so wise) says that when you start to pray for someone, that God will bring them closer to Himself, change them, whatever, it seems like they alwasy get worse first! She believes this is b/c they are fighting the influence of the Holy Spirit that they "feel" within them. So, in your case, consider it all joy.... when your W gets so upset and in your face! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Final point, there is no way that whole "we can all continue to live here in the house together" scenario is ever going to work!!! FORGET ABOUT IT!!!!!!!

God DEFINITELY will not honor that kind of arrangement.....but just let her talk. It's all about HER right now. God will change that.

Gotta run now. More later (I've got about 10 million other thoughts, but this is way too long as usual).

God Bless, my brother.

Thanks ll,
I always appreciate your input, as I do sg, s&c, lnc, lmx, h98, gentle, dzzz, to name but I few that I would jump in front of a moving keyboard to save <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> . You mentioned about hearing something 3 times. Well, last month I heard Job mentioned on the radio twice and more than that on this site and once by my brother. So, I stopped reading The New Testament and read Job. WOW!
Well, the same has happened again. Last (or was it the previous week) two dif MBers mentioned Hosea, then on the radio, two sep broadcasts mentioned Hosea. So, i just finished the New Testament two days ago, no reading since then ouch <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> , so tonight I start Hosea.
But I do need to get into His Word EVERY NIGHT! I have been doing the Christmas dec thing in and out, and I have been doing a lot of reading books (The Power of a Praying Husband) and many posts. BUT I NEED TOP GET BACK INTO HIS WORD.

Thanks. As always, great wisdom from one of God's own. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

God's Blessings,
TTSMM

TTSMM,

God and I have an agreement. The closer I get to Him in reading His word, praying to HIm and worshiping Him; the clearer His voice is to me.

I can only tell you that I believe I have heard God's voice twice in the 18 years I've been a Christian. The first one was when I was working in my yard and he said "This might be the last time I'll ever ask you." I looked up and no one was around. And In knew he was telling me that I had to accept Christ. (I guess, technically, that was before I was a Christian huh?) The second time was a hour after my W asked me for a D. I was on my way up to OM's house to beat the living crap out of him. God told me "If you do this your W really will D you".

Beyond that, I just knew stuff. Literally, every time my W was really struggling with all of this I knew. God revealed things to me that was going on between my W and OM. So when she told me, I already knew and was prepared for the news. He revealed to me thngs about gifts OM gave to her. Who the OM was. When I asked her on D-Day she wouldn't tell me, I then told her who it was.

My W got so used to me knowing what was going on, she started asking me if I knew what she was thinking.

I know God doesn't work the same way in every one and I have been truely blessed with his insight reagrding my M and the A. But I truely believe that it had everything to do with how intimate my relationship was with the Father. It starts with that. And that is the sole reason I push a closer R with God during times like the ones we all face. It is the reason I push it before reconciling.

God loves to bless His children and He does it to the extreme with obedient children.

And that still small voice... I still have trouble figuring out who it really is. Cause I don't always do what it says.

Bless you.

S&C

Hearing God's voice. Hmmm....when have I heard God's voice? It's not necessarily that I actually hear his voice inside, but I get a lot of signs from him. I feel him talking to me that way. For instance, I've been having a very hard weekend, crying, the whole bit, really feeling despair. I thought that I should tell my husband that I couldn't have contact with him anymore, until I felt better about things between us. Every time he walks through the door, every time he drives away, every time he spends a few hours here, I want it to be more than just friendship. I want something more than that (daggone it, I'm married to the man!). I was going to tell him today that I think we should have a third-party involved for arrangement of picking up the kids to see him. I didn't want to be around him if he just wanted to be friends because I just always want that kiss, that hug that I don't receive & it tears me up inside. I woke up this morning with such grief in my heart, debating on what I should say to him & how to tell him this without making him angry & creating strife in our R. I prayed for an answer - is this what I should be doing?

Got my answer within minutes - my S came up the steps & handed me a package that came in the mail today. Here it was the book, The Power of a Praying Wife that I've been waiting for. I read a bit of it, said a few prayers, & then was determined that I would be thankful for what FEW minutes, hours, days, I get to spend with him, even if it is just for him to pick up the children & then leave. God convicted me of it, he was telling me that he is working on it, not to give in to despair, don't create that strife.

Sometimes, when we pray, we just have to sit back & watch & listen, which is VERY hard for me to do.... God will talk to us, in more ways than one, we just have to "be still" sometimes & "know that he is God".

I have to agree with Lupolady on the living arrangement thing, Trying. After a D, I do believe it's in both parties best interest to seperate. Sometimes God can work better that way. "If an unbeliever wishes to leave, let her go." You cannot let go of her, after a D, while still living in the same house. I know it will uproot the children, it will be an adjustment, however, if you create an atmosphere of love, forgiveness & pleasantry, the children will see love, forgiveness & pleasantry & adjust quicker. And like they say, Absence makes the heart grow fonder.

Oh! BTW.

I also agree with lupolady. If there is a D, the two of you shouldn't live in the same house. Some people will say that this is just what a cake-eater would say. She wants you to meet the tough needs she has; like a babysitter, finances and other domestic stuff while she gets to have all the funs needs met by someone else.

Maybe the best way for her to come to her senses is for her to see what life without you would be like wothout you filling those needs. But a good Plan A is a must from you, so keep it up my friend. Continue being the kind, Godly man you were designed to be.

May He pour blessings your way.

S&C

Trying,

I agree with everything Lupo said except for the part about not living in the same house. I tried to get my husband to agree to soemthing similar. More like sharing time in the house so we could keep our home. He would not have anything to do with it. It is good that your wife is considering living in the same house.

See, I believe in time God will turn her heart back to you and your marriage as he did with my husband. It would be so much easier on the children to not have there lives changed so much.

She has plans of dating other men, but God guides her every footstep.

Again, I am going to ask you if you have ask her forgivness for the porn? Believe me this hurt her not matter what it meant to you. She is so mad at you right now that she can't possibly think of loving you again. She brings up the porn and sex things often. Her self-esteem has to be low. To her you cheated on her and she was never enough for you. This is why she is beating up on you now.

She is in so much need of love right now, but she is having a hard time accepting your love. It takes time for wounds to heal. She has so much anger right now about many things not just you. She is just taking it out on you.

Agree with her and show her the love of Christ in all you do and say. Remember what the bible says love is. You must walk the narrow path.

God is speaking to you, just listen. I have to go because the girls are at friends tonight and my husband and I are here alone. He had to take overnight clothes to one of our daughters but he will be back soon.

He is always here now. He rarely leaves and he has done all the decorating so far this year. There are better times in your future. Most important for you right now is to forgive and ask to be forgiven. I had to do this before I saw any changes. I had to forgive my husband for things he still has not ask forgivness for.

Check in later. You are doing a great job. Keep it up, your Father in heaven sees.

gentle

Today, while pulling out all the boxes for the kids gifts I found that we were sent two Thomas the Tank Engine gift sets and only paid for one. I told my W and said maybe we can give it to charity, she said maybe the church <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> That gnawed at me all through mass and the rest of the day.
Then, I took my C to the movies while Mommy wrapped all of thier Christmas gifts. We drove for quite a while without any stops, so my S was sopping wet. We went to the movies anyway. I felt very bad about the theatre seat being damp from his trousers, so I let the staff know when I left, but I lied <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> saying his pullup leaked.

On the way home and for the next few hours, I had a terrible headache.

In this week's Restoration post, it is mentioned that we need to get ourselves right in order to pray for our wives. We need to be right in our hearts before we can pray.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Whatever You reveal to me, I will confess to You as sin.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well He did and I did. While writng the Restoration post, Satan kept influencing me to stop by increasing my pain. I did not take any apsrin, telling God I offer it up for those through out the world who are un-believers (including my wife). I finished most of the post and went to sleep. I woke at 1:00 AM without a headache and finished the post.

I felt very tired and wanted to go back to sleep, but I saw some other postings that I wanted to answer. Then, I wanted to read my email. All this time I was avoding reading His Word. One of emails was from my former mens group. One of them invited me to thier last meeting of the year this Wednesday. I was going to call one of them to see if I could attend. I wanted to discuss my wife's proposal. Then this email ... hmmmmmmm.

I decided, I WANT TO READ HIS WORD BEFORE I GO TO BED. I almost forgot to say a prayer before I started. Then I remembered, and asked God to forgive me for those two sins today: the train set and lying about my son wetting the theatre seat. I told Him to convict my heart and He did. I also asked Him what I should do pertaining to living in the house after the divorce? I then opened the Bible randomly to whatever section, and came to Proverbs 20. I thought this wass good, I start Proverbs tonight. Then I decided, No, I'll read only Proverbs 20 tonight.....hmmmmm

"It is honorable for a man to shun strife, while every fool starts a quarrel." (Prv 20:3)
Be Christ-like to Marie.

"When a man walks in integrity and justice, happy are his children after him!" (Prv 20:7)
Is it integrous(sp) of me to live here after D?

"Varying weights, varying measures, are both and abomination to the Lord." (Prv 20:10)
This is the word I thought about when Marie first mentioned living here after D. It would be an abomination to the sancity of M. A very bad example for our C. Varying weights and measures are both not God's way.

"The bread of deceit is sweet to a man, but afterward his mouth will be filled with gravel." (Prv 20:17)
It is very tempting to be around my kids - and to have my basement finished, BUT AT WHAT COST?

"Plans made after advice succeed; so with wise guidance wage your war." (Prv 20:18)
The email I mentioned above. Some of these men I feel can give me some wise advice. But it is only advice. I will still filter it through God's Word.

"A newsmoger reveals secrets; so have nothing to do with a babbler." (Prv 20:19)
Don't tell Tim. He is my office mate. He hears and knows much of what is going on with my M. Often times his input is less than Godly, and he is a gossip (sadly I have fallen that road with him as well <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> ).

"Possessions gained hastily at the outset will in the end not be blessed." (Prv 20:21)
<see Prv 20:17 above>

"Varying weights are an abomination to the Lord, and false scales are not good." (Prv 20:23)
<see Prv 20:10 above>

"Man's steps are from the Lord; how, then can a man understand His ways?" (Prv 20:24)
He is working on my heart. Trust that He is working on hers.

"Rashly to pledge a sacrd gift is a trap for a man, or to regret a vow once made." (Prv 20:25)
I will show our children that M is not sacred if I do this.

"Evil is cleansed away by bloody lashes, and a scourging to the inmost being." (Prv 20:30)
These are the trials I must go through. To live God's Word and leave it in His hands.

hmmmmm..... Was God speaking to me tonight? I did ask for the "show me three times" like lupolady, so....I think I have one-and-a-half to go <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

God's Blessings and TRUTH be upon us,
Trying...

Well, He gave me another half, Marie is off from work on Wednesday so I can attend the men's meeting.

Then I get call from the man who invited me and he found out that this was a closed meeting. I thought, great now what is Marie going to say. So on the way home I prayed for God to give me the words. Simple, THE TRUTH! No games or anything else.

So I did when I came home and told her that I would not be attending the meeting. Before I could tell her why, she said I did not need to, it was none of her business. So, that was a first for me. I don't mean telling the truth; I mean dragging it out, I mean waiting until the very last minute to tell her. This was always because of my fear of confrontation with Marie; having to hear saying "No!" or telling me what to do. This time I just said the info as soon as I know. I feel good. God set this up so I coudl grow and I felt I did <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

God's Blessings,
TTSMM

Good for you, Trying!

Hello TTSMM. I just finished a book called "The life you always wanted". I don't remember the authors name but it is a very good book. It talks about our lives as christians, what God wants from us, How he talks to us , and lots more! I would recommend it to everyone. My pastor gave it to me to read after we had a little session about my D. I have felt "stuck" so to speak about my life. I want my wife, kids and family back but I am also unsure how to move forward. This is a common problem, especially after a catastophic event has happened in ones life. This book also addresses this towards the end. My counseller suggested I follow up that book with "The purpose driven life". I am on day 15 and it is also a good one. I am reading Psalms right now and it is jammed packed with good stuff! I Love my God and he is wonderful!!!!! God Bless!

adamv,
Good to see to here. I see you are one of our orginal, first 100, prayer warriors.

Thanks for the advice, I am checking out htis book right now online. Glad you mentioned "TPDL" because I was going to suggest to you on your other posting. I just finished it ealier this month. It was amazing. It was the first commitment I kept in a while, I finished in 40 days (one chapter a day). Sorry if this sounds like bragging, it's a big deal for me to keep that disciplined.

Anyway, stick around here. This site needs men and women who are praying for thier marriages and praying for others' as well. On the Weekly Restoration thread, Hopeful98 and myself will be posting excerpts and prayers from "The Power of a Praying Husband" and "The Power of a Praying Wife" each week. If you haven't read it is another good book.

Last book I'll mention, I haven't read it yet though, "The Fruit of the Spirit - Becoming the Person God Wants You to Be" (Thomas E. Trask & Wayde I. Goodall). Since reading "TPDL" about the nine fruits of the Holy Spirit, I have been attracted to these gifts from God. I went into the bookstore looking for something else, and this book spoke to me.

Anyway (again), Welcome Back!

God's Belssings upon you, your XW and your children,
tryingTOsaveMYmarriage

PS Info the book you mentioned is located at this site.

<small>[ December 19, 2003, 08:08 AM: Message edited by: tryingTOsaveMYmarriage ]</small>

Just to keep you up to date on this situ.

No mention of it until today. Before today, when she thought I was alseep (maybe) she said to our D, "Wait 'til daddy gets up." Over the past few months, or more, she always refers to me as 'your father' to the kids. But today, while on the phone at work, she tells me I might have to get home earlier because her job wants her to start earlier. She said she told them that that depended on her children's father. Why can't she say "soon to be ex-husband". Personally, I think saying the other way, leaves her up for scrutiny (had her children out of wedlock?).

Anyway, when I got home, she was going to a cookie swap tonight. Very nicecly dressed and perfumed. When she wass leaving I told her I was thinking of moving the PC's around because of poor wireless signal. She first agreed and then said 'No.', that she didn't want the house looking like an apt. Then she said that after the basement is done, both PC's would go downstairs. Funny, I never gave her my answer about staying in the basement after the D. She just assumes I am going to agree to this <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> .

Besides the points I mentioned in earlier posts, there is no way I am going to be in that house and see her come through the door after she just slept with someone else. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Just needed to vent.

Anyway, that is where it satnds right now. She thinks I agreed to this, but she hasn't come to me since she first proposed it.

Also, please pray tonight. This cookie-swap is with her best friend. My W has told me several times that her friend has introduced her to some men, but they were all losers, or my W wasn't interested. I don't know if my W is trying to get me jealous, mad, both, or what. I don't kno wif anything she says is true or not. I want to call this woman and tell her to stop medling until there is a D. But I don't know if anything being said here is true.

Anyway, she is Catholic, but I guess she doesn't follow her faith much if she setting up a married woman (my W). <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

God, forgive me for judging <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Trying..and crying <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

More news.
Tonight, I had to call my W because our S is sick I didn't remember which medicine to give him. I called her friend's cell phone.

My W was very pleasant on the phone. In fact she started a long conversation about the cookies and how she was having fun gossiping with the other ladies. She was being "friendly" with me on the phone.

ttsmm