this has nothing to do with my m or my c.

background
back in june 02, when i thought i was at the end of my rope with my m, i did a sterling institute of relationship men's weekend. i then joined a men's team. during my time on the team i spent many weekly meetings discussing my failing m and asking for advice. back in jul 02, i saw i wasn't taking the advice, and men were upset because i wasn't taking their advice. then i contemplated suicide (more than contempated, i had 20 pills in front of me one night) and reached out on the MB d/d forum. thanks to many of you, i'm still here. from the 30+ men on my men's team, about half show concern, calling me at work, having me make promises to get help, etc. that's when i went to see my b, sil, & n in calif for my bday. when i returned, i rec'd little sympathy from my men's team hierarchy, got reprimanded for not following through on a committment i made to them. i decided, this was not for me and quit. only a handful of men have had some communication with me since then. this is when i came back to the Lord.

tuesday nite, marie had off. one of the men invited me to a big men's meeting, so i went. a lot of men were happy to see me and asked if i was coming back? i told them no, i was here to see old friends, let them know how i was doing, share my faith, and get some "juice" (inspiration). the night started by stating your name, when you did your weekend, and whose "butt" you would like to kick (past/present). men mentioned people from their neightborhood, growing up, etc. one man said, genesius' (ttsmm) butt. i was shocked by this. later on i'm talking with some other men from another men's team and my former captain asked what my problem was, i've been smerking all night? he wanted to start a fight. i asked the previous man why he didn't email me back when i asked if he wanted to go to pastor lloyd pulley's service. he said he didn't want to go with me. he then said i was a disease and he didn't want to have anything to do with me. when i asked him about our code of honor, "embrace all men", he said that he didn't have to live up to that code with me.

these men's reactions hurt me deeply. six months ago, we would have done almost anything to save the other one. i wasn't smerking, i was smiling because inside i was a "10" something these men hadn't experienced from me when i was on the the team. in the 12 plus months i was there we each to pick a word we wanted to become over the next six months; my words were "surrender" and "peaceful". i was smiling because i didn't attain those words when i was on the men's team; only since coming back to God have i attained peace and have surrendered.

when i left the meeting, i felt strange and alone somewhat. i told myself that it shouldn't bother me and i forgive them. then i thought about writing a nasty email, then i said forget it, what do you want me to do God? on the radio tonight was a female preacher? who mentioned about starting 2004 by reconciling your relationships (with everyone); asking for forgiveness and righting the wrongs.

i need some scripture to help me write the right thing without blaming, etc. to take my responsibility for my part of the hostility; to open the communcation to see what i need to do to mend it; and find out what exactly i did to cause it so i will learn from my mistakes. problem is both these men are quick to cover/passover their mistakes but quick to judge others. i need to write something humbly.

any advice?

Love in Christ,
ttsmm

TTSMM,

I wrote a pretty long reply on the other thread "Question for Women who were BS" (although I was not a BS). I included alot of verses that are good wisdom for dealing with any person, including these men.

May God give you wisdom as you deal with the anger/hurt towards these men.

"Vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord."

TTSMM,

Amazingly, I keep seeing examples of the very thing I keep writing here. I'm not sure if the message is for YOU or myself!

That message is "This is a wilderness experience." TtSmM, This is YOUR wilderness experience!! You no longer "fit" with those guys b/c God has called you out.

I don't think you can see it, but HE alone is teaching you now. He HAS taught you, and moved you higher. You have come into a higher place spiritually, and I (personally) don't think those guys could recognize it, and therefore - your countenance confused them!!! (They thought it was smirking). Think of how Moses looked after coming down from the mountain, and the poeple of Israel couldn't even look at him.

Remember, "We wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, power in high places........."

My advice is that you don't need to try to justify yourself in your email. SImply ask for forgiveness for being disobedient in the past to their advice. Humbly let them know you are now doing your best to follow CHrist. Period.
My .02

Stay in The Word, my brother. You're going to be OK!!!

God Bless,

<small>[ January 07, 2004, 05:47 AM: Message edited by: lupolady ]</small>

Hi TTSMM

Sorry to hear that one of the men in the men's group isn't as forgiving as you would like him to be. I can sort of relate to that. I had a 50 yr old fellow in my bible study several years ago who had some real personal issues with his father. After the study my W and I would drive him home and we'd talk along the way. By the time we get to his place we'd be in a very deep discussion and we'd sit there and continue talking. It was almost always about his same issues. He had gone to several Christian counselors but he would terminate the sessions whenever he felt that they were not supportive enough. After the umpteen time of hearing the same story in the car he got around to asking me what I thought. I, as firmly and as gently as I possibly could, suggested that he take charge of the situation rather than have it rule over and dominate his life. In short, move on with your life. Well, he got mad and rarely speaks to me and my W except for the usual courtesies. And now he's in my men's group but not my breakout group.

Anyhow, in my men's group of 12 we are broken out into 4 groups of 3. After 3 months into the program I don't seem to be able to relate well with the other 2 men because they're much younger than me. One has been married for 2 years and the other is an unmarried student from out of the country. Don't get me wrong...I think that they are good men to hang out with but whhat I meant by relate is that the other two guys have not much experience to draw on. I do get sympathy but I'm glad its not the "disease" attitude that you've encountered. I guess that is something I'll have to live with for now. The only thing I can think of is for you to really forgive that fellow. IMHO, forgive and let go. I don't think writing something while emotionally upset would be the thing to do.

TTSMM,

I can't agree with lupolady more. (She has such wisdom.) I have to tell you that I experienced the same thing from my old pastor, believe it or not last Summer. I think I posted about it. But there is one thing I have been sure of; and that is of my leading by God in this. People can give you all kinds of advice and if you don't take it they will probably get upset with you. But so what.

The book of Acts chapter 5 tells us to "obey God rather than man."

1 Corinthians 1:25 Tells us "This "foolish" plan of God is far wiser than the wisest of human plans, and God's weakness is far stronger than the greatest of human strength."

And 1 Corinthians 2 reminds us to; ...trust the power of God rather than human wisdom.

It was "foolish" for me to stay with my W according to my old pastor, but God was more interested in saving my W's relationship with Him and that in turn is saving my M.

Those men have had their pride hurt and aren't humble enough before God to see the changes God is making in you.

One more thing I want to show you. A suister in Christ sent this to me at a really low point in all of this. Hope it helps a bit.

"The Isolation Chamber"

Be still and know that I am God … . (Psalm 46:10)

There is a time and place in our walk with God
in which He sets us in a place of waiting.
It is a place in which all past experiences are of no value.
It is a time of such stillness that it can disturb the most faithful
if we do not understand that He is the one
who has brought us to this place for only a season.
It is as if God has placed a wall around us.
No new opportunities—simply inactivity.

During these times,
God is calling us aside to fashion something new in us.
It is an isolation chamber designed
to call us to deeper roots of prayer and faith.
It is not a comfortable place,
especially for a task-driven businessperson.
Our nature cries out, "You must do something,"
while God is saying, "be still and know that I am God."
You know the signs that you have been brought into this chamber
when He has removed many things from your life
and you can't seem to change anything.
Perhaps you are unemployed.
Perhaps you are laid up with an illness.

Most religious people live a very planned and orchestrated life
where they know almost everything that will happen.
But for people in whom God is performing a deeper work,
He brings them into a time of quietness that seems almost eerie.
They cannot say what God is doing.
They just know that He is doing a work
that cannot be explained to themselves or to others.

Has God brought you to a place of being still?
Be still and know that He really is God.
When this happens, the chamber will open soon after.

Bless you my friend.

S&C

<small>[ January 07, 2004, 11:19 AM: Message edited by: steadfast and committed ]</small>

Lupolady,
Thanks for your insight on TTSMM's message. I would never have thought that God had called him out of that group.

Thank you for your ideas and scripture. I gave a lot of thought to what I wanted to say on my way to work today and asked for God to keep me humble. Here is what I wrote. I trust those of you at this site and I would appreciate your Godly-counsel on it. I already sent the email.



Jxxxxx/Cxxxxx,

As a Christian and a man, I come to you asking for forgiveness and enlightenment. I know I am out of honor with you two (as well the tribe) and I desire to rectify that. I wasn't going to do that yesterday, because it would not have been right to monopolize the meeting as I have done in other meetings in the past. As I see it, I have hurt you, Cxxxxx, by running out on you as the team's second. I have hurt you, Jxxxxx, by running out on you as the groups's S1 (communications mgr). I also hurt you both by pushing you too far in asking for advice. I have been told by some men that it goes deeper, but I need your help. Help me "take the plank out of my eye, so I can better see the speck in another's eye". Enlighten me to what I did wrong to you beyond what I have mentioned so I can learn and grow as a fellow God-fearing man.

Last night, I wasn't smirking, I was full of joy, happiness, and fatherly pride. On a scale of 1-10, I was a "10". Men asked me how things were going and I told them about my relationship with my children, and my relationship with God. When they asked about Marie, I did not offer, I told them I was leaving that up to God. I was happy because piror to the meeting, I picked up my daughter at CCD (religious education). She is celebrating her "First Holy Eucharist" in May. In preparation, this Saturday is her "Sacrament of Reconciliation" and she was chosen to do a reading from the Bible for the ceremony. That made me very proud.

Just as in a12-step program, one is required to "right the wrongs of their past with those they wronged" where they can, I am doing the same because I no longer want to have hate in my heart, or resentment, or fear. this life is too short for that. In many ways, I looked up to you two men as "role models" in my life. I am asking for forgiveness (a "path back") to you as Christian men for how I wronged and hurt you.

God's Blessings,

Love in Christ,
ttsmm

well, i got replies from both men, oddly enough both similar. they wanted to know what i was asking for?

i know God has called me out from there, and is giving me my "Wilderness Experience", as lupo stated. my reason for pursuing this is not have them as "men of wisdom" in my life any more. that's why i said "In many ways, I looked up to you two men as "role models" in my life", and the Holy Spirit had me use "looked" and not look - it's in the past. my reason is because my former men's team does various functions of community service throughout the year (shelters, children's charities, etc.) and i have asked to be notified so i can lend a helping hand at these. i will see these men again at these functions.

i have not replied back, but my answer will be to be back in honor with them; to have them trust my word; to be able to talk openly and honestly again. i will ask the Holy Spirit to guide me with those words as He did in my previous email.

thank you for your words of support and for showing me God's Word in this situ.

Love in Christ,
ttsmm

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by tryingTOsaveMYmarriage:
<strong> well, i got replies from both men, oddly enough both similar.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Interesting indeed!!! Wanna know what I glean from their replies?
That you are in a deeper place spiritually than they are now!!! They didn't "get" what you were asking........

Trying, take this as a "sign" from God that He IS taking you higher (drawing closer). That He has brought you through something that has transformed you into a man after God's own thoughts and actions.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i have not replied back, i will ask the Holy Spirit to guide me with those words as He did in my previous email.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good idea!! Not that you need my help, when you will get it from the Holy Spirit, but <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> what I think I would respond back to them (if it were me), would be to again ask for forgiveness, plain and simple. Explain that you are seeking to draw closer to God, and that requires that you "right" any wrongs a brother might have against you, so that is what you are asking of them.

Keep us posted......this is like actually watching a child being brought into the world..........a new life...........a transformation into a new being.

God Bless you, brother.

Lupo?

Well said sister!

You mean like a "New Creation"? (1 Co. 5:17). <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Blessings.

S&C

S'cuse me .. hi all!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> !

Blessings!
DZZZ

Hi Guys!!!
Sorry I haven't been around. Just when I thought I was on the road to recovery, I got ill again! I was just getting past the pnuemonia, and I end up with a fungus in my lungs. Thought I was gonna die!!! That hurt sooooooo bad. Is there a fungus amung us? Yeh me!!!!!! Anyway I think it is finally being overcome. They think it might be from the birds not going south and from the damp weather. They have fungus in their waste and damp air makes it go airborn. Anyway, be thankful you didn't lose me!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

So anyway, I am now observing all the wisdom that has been posted the last several days. Amazing!!!

Stay Warm
cuddlyguy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Sorry you have been sick Single! My hubby is not well right now either. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Everyone at work has been very ill this year with colds and such. So far I "felt" like I might be getting something but haven't thank God!

Generally I never get colds or flu's.

Hope you are feeling well soon and back to your goofy self.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

DZZZ

Okay, here's the continuing of the birth of a new creation <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

One of them sent me an email asking if I could help with his D proceedings. He introduced me to my atty for the TRO (it's his STBXW's atty <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> ). He wanted to know if she, the atty, ever coached me to lie onthe witness stand for the TRO? I told him, "Yes. But I didn't have to on the stand. Also, that my pastor thought it was wrong as did I." He wanted to know if I would tell this to his atty? I said i would but off the receord.

After, that he asked me what I meant in my email. I told him I wanted to know how I could get back in honor with him; that I wasn't looking to come back to the men's group. I said we might see each other at some large meetings, if I choose to come, and at community service events, because I was interested in helping, expecially around helping children. I told him I needed to know beyond me leaving and constantly talking about my W and my problems, what else was the problem (help me remove the plank from my eye). It comes down to he told me back in August it was my decision to leave, and to let him know my decision when I make it. I didn't. He found out through the man whose house I was staying at during the TRO. My failure to follow up was the problem. We talked a little more and we are clean with each other. He even said he wouldn't mind if I sent him the email about our weekly prayer for marriages. He did say I should clean up with the other men in the team. I will, again, with the understanding that I am NOT coming back.

This man is a Christian, and I shared some of the "signs" God has shown me over the past months. He loves his W, but she is crazy and wants a D, period. He will not fight with her, period. He said that maybe when she makes changes in her life, they might get back together again (after D). I asked if he mind if I prayed for him and his W? No, please do.

I did NOT put any blame towards him or any other man on the team during this entire conversation. For me this was an exercise in humility that God wanted me to experience, and more importantly, LEARN FROM.

Love and FAITH in Christ,
ttsmm