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#344697 01/11/04 01:27 AM
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At the risk of opening a huge "can of worms" - I copied this post from over on Emotional Needs. It was posted by Shaken, not Stirred.....

It's a little hard to follow, as he tries to maintain the anonymity of those he writes about with ________blanks. Please try to follow his thinking and post your heart-felt reactions. I will reserve mine till some of you can respond in order not to influence anyone.

quote:
For those of you who do not think on a spiritual plane, or who are not interested in Christian warfare against those negative forces or spirits that might be infiltrating our marriages, please ignore this post. It will likely be too much to digest.

For the rest of you, I received the following e-mail from a friend of mine whose discrning and wise husband is convinced my WS has what he terms the "spirit of Jezebel", which has infiltrated her life and which literally needs to be prayed out of her by me - her husband. I was awestruck when I read this because the characteristics that have overtaken my wife fit this to a tee.

And, no, I do not think my wife is evil. Nor do I think I have been an angel through the course of my marriage. It takes two to tango. However, I want no place for evil forces to destroy my marriage, nor anyone's on this board.

Here is her e-mail. Read on:

I spoke with ____ about the spiritual warfare issue. He feels that there is a specific form of oppression evident in this situation. For one thing, the unreasonableness of ____'s response to you leads him to believe that she is being driven by something other than her own desires or thoughts. What he believes he senses is that she is probably being affected by a spirit called
Jezebel.

First of all, when I speak of a spirit, what I mean what many modern charismatic leaders refer to a principality of this world. It is an
archetypal spirit (an overarching spiritual influence associated with Satan and his kingdom) and it has a kind of unique identity. This one, the Jezebel spirit, has traits which we can readily associate with Jezebel, Ahab's wife.

The name Jezebel is indicative of the spirit's affect and attributes. Jezebel's name means "without cohabitation" and it is clear from 1 Kings that she did not allow for a true intimacy with her husband, but was controlling, rebellious, resisting submission to her husband Ahab. This spirit, similarly, manifests itself in people's lives in the form of control and rebellion. It works against the true, pure intimacy of sex in the marriage, and wars against Christian marriages in general. Some associate
her with a spirit of prostitution, again, something warring against the purity of sex in marriage and works to undermine the appropriate attitude of humilty. Note, for instance, that Jezebel ruled over the priests of Baal and
Ashteroth. These, as you know, were deities of ancient fertility religions which practiced human sacrifice and temple prostitution as acts of worship.

Of course, keep in mind that the degree to which one is affected by this spirit determines how far one goes towards acting like that spirit. Her
function as the spirit of prostitution means that she motivates people towards a more licentious path than they would normally take, not that
everyone affected by this spirit actually prostitutes themselves.

The spirit is also associated with the more negative sides of modern feminism (again, a form rebellion, a resistance to what is a healthy
submission to a husband and even an unwillingness to 'co-habit' or be yoked with men). She is a proud spirit and so if _____ is being affected by
Jezebel, it makes sense that she would not believe she needs healing.

____ says that people affected by this spirit are usually the last to think they need to change.

He also wondered about the timing of _____'s change with your dad's death. If this spirit has been working in her, then the timing is curious. ___ feels that it would be just like Jezebel to want to attack someone who is part of a family whose head has been a spokesperson for God.

Though your dad was not prophetic per se, (i.e., he didn't claim to receive direct words of
revelation, though certainly he heard from God), he was a speaker of God's word, and so it makes sense that Jezebel would attack his family. Notice how she wars against Elijah and how that conflict brought him to a point of great despair (until God came to him in the Still Small Whisper).

As well, this archetypal spirit tends to like to take advantage of gaps in true spirtual authority. For example, in the Biblical story, Jezebel takes advantage of Ahab's failure to exercize true spiritual authority to try to
usurp authority over Israel. Thus the spirit may be taking advantage of your father's absence:

Perhaps there was a kind of protection in your lives due to his prayers, faith and presence (and thus there is now a gap). Possibly, ____'s change after _____'s death is due not only to the emotional trauma of that loss, but also due to a spiritual dynamic in which the enemy is taking
advantage of that loss.

As well, since you are now the eldest male in the
family, Jezebel may have set her sights set on you for attack. However, dismal this may sound, Christians should not fear Jezebel, because we have authority in Jesus's name over this spirit as we walk in Christ. In particular, we have authority to war against her in the areas of our
God-given domain (ie., family, spouse, children).

____ suggests that you pray against the influences of Jezebel over ____'s mind, praying that any control of the Jezebel spirit over her mind will be broken. If you feel comfortable enough to do so, you can, as her husband,
take authority over this spirit in her life and command it to leave your family and your wife alone (obviously you're able to war this way only under the protection of Christ).

You don't need to be with _____ when you pray
this, but it might not hurt to pray this when at your temporary home and when in your family's home when ____'s out.

When ____ met ____ in 2001, he sensed that at some level, she believed she knew what was what in her own life, but below that he saw confusion, and believes it may have been lurking there for quite some time. The enemy likes to take advantage of confusion. The way ____ tends to think of this is that if you don't have a sound, Biblical thought on a matter, one of these
spirits will be glad to provide you with a thought of its own choosing.

That _____ wants freedom, but seems to think that living like a teenager will bring fulfilment and freedom, shows a definite confusion. You might,
therefore, also pray against confusion, binding it in Jesus' name and commanding it leave _____'s mind.

Well, that's an awful lot to throw at you. Please feel free to either email with any questions or better yet call us, or (as ___ says, to complete
disregard anything that doesn't sit right with your spirit).


#344698 01/11/04 01:44 AM
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Lupo,

Several years ago, they preached about this spirit on TV. Several pastors, including Joyce Meyers brought this spirit up. They went into great detail about what it was. But the main theme is not to be controlled by anyone, including God. I have heard where some women's lib groups pray for the spirit to come over them and to infiltrate their daughters! Think about day cares? What spirits are being released there. The bible says that there will be a great rebellion against God in the later days. If satan can destroy marriage, he can destroy about anything. The antidote is men need to pray a covering over their wives [and daughters]on a daily basis.

singleguy

[ January 10, 2004, 12:45 PM: Message edited by: singleguy ]

#344699 01/10/04 04:29 PM
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This is what I said: Anyone agree .. disagree?

-----------

Personally I believe more can be accomplished in prayer than anywhere else. So yes, I do believe in demonic strongholds that can influence people to do things. I also believe that people can be influenced by good, through prayer, so it works both ways.

However, I still believe it is the person's choice to sin or not to sin. YOU can't repent for your wife. You can't pray a magic prayer over her and "set her free". SHE has to want to be free.

IF and that is a big IF she is being driven by something demonic, you can only pray for her protection and that she would come to a place of repentance and wanting change and freedom.

Just a little caution. I have been in churches that got into this "teaching" and the whole church was so captivated and "into" it that EVERYONE in the church ended up having this JS.

I would be very careful that you don't get so caught up in the hype of all this that you miss the obvious.

It is STILL her choice. God never takes away our freedom to choose.

From a MB point of view (and I think it is compatible with the Bible) you need to continue to try to meet emotional needs, avoid the LB's work on your OWN issues (especially on what drove her away in the first place) and pray that God restores the marriage. Beyond that I would caution you to refrain from quick fixes. I don't believe they exist.

Blessings,
DZZZ

[ January 10, 2004, 03:30 PM: Message edited by: Diamonzzz ]

#344700 01/10/04 06:02 PM
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Still being new in His Word, I can't answer from a Biblical perspective. However, from an experiential side, I can contribute.

I thought through therapy and the sex getting better, buying our first home, etc., our M was on the road to healing. My Dad passed away in Aug 2002, just 2 months after we moved into our new home. My W and I had our big arguments, but I still felt it could/would get better. A month or so later is when we had an argument the morning when I was doing a community service event with my men's team. While going to it, she left several hurtful messages on my cell about how she would willingly do things with another man that she didn't/wouldn't do with me. She even mentioned his name, her personal trainer.

My uncle passed away in Jan/Feb 2003 (don't remember date); another strong Catholic presence in my family.

My Mom passed away in March 2003, again my W did not come to the funeral. Over the next 2 months after her passing my W became even more combative (I didn't help). Then in early May, the incident which lead to the TRO, and then her filing for D.

She never liked my parents, they were not sane to her. I was too loyal to them and defended more than I should have. I never knew (or read) the verse in Genesis about a man leaving his Father and Mother and cleaving to his W. I thought I should still be loyal to my parents. Anyway, they were both devote Catholics, more than typical (more fanatical). Many of her comments were about their religious fervor. She told me that she was happy that they are dead, because now maybe I will grow up.

So, do I believe that Jezebel might be influencing her? YES! Because, how does a M that appears to be working towards a resolution change direction so dramatically? Of course, I do take responsibility for other things I did (no other infidelity) during that time. I would also say, based on the description of Jezebel (or her male counterpart), I was demonically influenced me during my unfaithfulness, sex was more important than faithfulness.

That's my take on it.

Love in Christ,
ttsmm

#344701 01/11/04 04:33 AM
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Lupo,

Wow. This is what I feel i've been living the past few years. After D-Day I went to see a friend of mine who knew of my W's previous A's and told him I could not go through this again.

After we talked for a while and prayed he asked me what I thought God was trying to tell me and to search for that answer.

The answer came in a dream of my W caught in the clutches of something and she had been there for a while. So long, as a matter of fact; that she was comfortable in that situation and didn't want to leave.

Dzzz is correct in that yuo cannot repent for the spouse. But we do have authority over them to some degree. We can make them loosen the grip they have. But the spouses desire to keep the OP, allows the spirit to linger and makes it hard for the BS. If the BS isn't in an intimate relationship with God, the circumstances could very well overwhelm them. I still battle this spirit (2 years, 2 mos.). My W still doesn't allow me to completely be the head of the household. But she is getting better at allowing me to express my opinion about spiritual matters. She still doesn't like it when I suggest she read the Word and won't initiate prayer very often.

The power of these spirits seemed to loosen when I started to pray in the form of the prayers in "Power of a Praying Husband" Prayer is a very powerful weapon and the most effective one we have against the spirits of the enemy. They are dilignetly at work trying to destroy marriages and they are banking on the BS's to give up on the spouses.

This is why I have chosen the name I have. Because I remain steadfast in the fight over my W and committed to making my M one that will glorify God.

Blessing to you all. Life if hard.... ...pray harder!

Love in Christ.

S&C

#344702 01/11/04 11:18 AM
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Thanks for your replies everyone. I forgot to mention in my other posts on this thread (see the same thread in Emotional Needs) that my wife has been unable to pray audibly with me for about 7-8 years. Up until about 18 months ago, she would pray with me if I was the one who prayed/led (she would never make a sound). About 18 months ago she stopped praying with me altogether.

On one occasion, deep into her withdrawal and pain, and deep into our estrangement (I had been sleeping on the couch for a couple of months), my pleading with her to pray with me so we could begin the healing process fell on deaf ears.

This is really so ironic because my wife had been a prayer warrior for so long in her earlier days.

#344703 01/12/04 01:18 AM
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Many good points!

Yes, we reside in a physical world, but we live in a spiritual world. We have the authority with prayer to get God and His angels involved in our affairs. Our wives are our affairs. Yes, everyone will always have that ability to chose. but we can ask God to either put obstacles, other Christians, thoughts,etc., in their lives for positive influence, our take things out of their lives to bring about a Godly result.

Anytime churches focus on something too strongly, things get out of context, and more damage is done than repaired. The church itself can almost become demonic. But some of the stronger influences of this type of spirit, or stronghold, what ever you want to call it, is MTV. They have slowly taken control of so many kids over the last 20 years or so. They promote wrong sex to the hilt. They promote rebellion to the hilt. Right now as I write this they are working on developing new music videos that will be done in the context of a porn movie. They have a porn company, yes porn, and a music company that are working with MTV to release these before the year is over. Another stronghold is the girl scouts, and their lax views about sexuality. One of the leaders of the gay community has said he will not rest until every church in America that opposes gay rights is closed. Yes everyone has a choice, but we can be a strong diversion with our prayers and our witness. Things are going to change, and change fast. S&C is right about praying harder. It will become one of the greatest wars ever fought, and we need to fight!!!

singleguy

#344704 01/12/04 08:23 AM
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Yes, I strongly feel that the spirit of Jezebel is alive and active today. This evilness has been tolerated due to the presence of what I call "Christian feminism" in the church, coinciding with the advent of the feminist agenda some years ago. This godless doctrine has infiltrated the church from the seminary level right down to the pulpit.

I will say this - the spirit of Jezebel cannot exist unless the spirit of Ahab allows it. When men take their rightful place as spiritual head of the church and household, using the servanthood model of Jesus, the spirit of Jezebel cannot co-exist. Men are slowly but surely (praise Jesus!) rediscovering their Biblical mandate to leadership. This wickedness in today's church is not a female issue as much as it is a male issue. When we men get our spiritual act together our women will naturally be content and supportive. Those who are not Christians can't understand this concept as it conflicts with most modern psychology and worldly leanings.

I strongly exhort the Christian men here to find out who they are in Jesus and fulfill their Biblical role of manhood, husbandhood, and fatherhood. The rest will fall into place. God bless!

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I am not sure if anyone who posted on this thread is active posters but I was pointed here via Google search. Never thought this subject would have ever been discussed on MB after reading and posting for over a year. I never bothered to search for "Jezebel", but this spirit is precisely what I dealt with in my marriage. It's a dangerous and VERY pervasive spirit in many Christian marriages and the church in general. I highly recommend the "believers" who participate on MB to thoroughly pray and investigate whether or no this spirit exists...especially if you having issues with rebellion, refusal of counsel, prayer, defensiveness to ANY questioning and illogical confusion in conversation....and unexplained emotional distancing.


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"spirit of Jezebel" is a made up phrase, Biblically speaking. Also, it would be a really disrespectful phrase to use about one's spouse. Dr. Harley's advice is to NOT try to psychoanalyze your spouse nor to try to diagnose their spiritual failings. That is not the path to marriage improvement - instead, you have to learn to appreciate their perspective, rather than being disrespectful about it.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted By: DNT
especially if you having issues with rebellion


I can't understand why rebellion could be an issue in marriage, because neither husband nor wife is supposed to be lording it over the other. There's nothing to rebel against. In a good marriage, there isn't any requirement that husband or wife follow the wishes of the others.

Quote:
refusal of counsel, prayer


Again, Dr. Harley does not recommend demanding that your spouse participate in counseling or prayer. Instead, negotiate to find a win-win solution. The procedures are on this site.

Quote:
defensiveness to ANY questioning and illogical confusion in conversation....and unexplained emotional distancing.


Well, usually when that happens, there is an affair. Again the solution is not to make demands of your spouse. Instead, rather than questioning, just go find out for yourself (snoop). Don't fight with your spouse about it! Don't tell them or anyone else they have an evil spirit. That's disrespectful and will simply empty your love bank balance further. Snoop -- then expose the truth -- then let your spouse know that if they want to stay married to you, they will need to end their affair and build a new marriage with you that makes you both happy.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Be aware that on these old threads people pretty much passed around their own personal opinions - which were frequently worthless. After all, most of us here destroyed our marriages using our own best thinking. We came here not to share our own personal opinions, but to learn from an expert how to actually fix what is wrong.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
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If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Responding to an ancient post:

Originally Posted By: singleguy
I have heard where some women's lib groups pray for the spirit to come over them and to infiltrate their daughters!


This is simply making stuff up and passing unsubstantiated rumor.

Quote:
Think about day cares? What spirits are being released there.


This is just extremely disrespectful to anyone who chooses to use day care. Neither my wife nor I want our children in daycare, and we have some pretty strong preferences against it - but think of the case were husband and wife are not agreed on the subject and one wants to use it and one does not. This is a great example of how NOT to speak about an issue in the context of marital conflict. You can explain to your spouse why you are not enthusiastic about what they prefer without branding it as demonic or saying it is releasing evil spirits or any other such name calling, or speaking about it as if it is a choice no sane person should ever make.

Quote:
The antidote is men need to pray a covering over their wives [and daughters]on a daily basis.


Wow - I'm sure my wife appreciates me praying for her and asking for God to protect her, but I know for a fact that she doesn't want me praying to God as if she is somehow more prone to evil than I am and needs extra protection. That is very disrespectful. If you are frustrated that your wife won't pray with you, and you've ever prayed like this - that's probably why she won't pray with you. Prayer should not be abusive or disrespectful.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted By: markos
"spirit of Jezebel" is a made up phrase, Biblically speaking. Also, it would be a really disrespectful phrase to use about one's spouse. Dr. Harley's advice is to NOT try to psychoanalyze your spouse nor to try to diagnose their spiritual failings. That is not the path to marriage improvement - instead, you have to learn to appreciate their perspective, rather than being disrespectful about it.


But sin is sin.
Let's go back to the basic story of Genesis: God commanded the married couple not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.
Adam should have refused his wife: No negotiation needed.

When someone is involved with sin, like a wayward or an alcoholic, sometimes the truth of the Gospel is the only thing that can pierce their heart - because the Bible is sharper than any two edged sword.

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Markos - I appreciate your replies and input here. I can assure you the Jezebel spirit isn't anything that is made up. It is very real and very dangerous. To a portion of your point jezebel spirit cannot exist without what's called an "Ahab" spirit"...ie, a passive man who is not assuming his Godly responsibilities as a husband...ie...me. Nevertheless the spirit often exists well before marriagetypically rooted in deep rooted rejection, family chaos, sexual abuse, and fear experienced as child then buried in religion. Unfortunately, all present in our case. I highly respect and believe in Dr. Harley's principles and methods, but THIS is beyond the scope of psychoanalysis, learned behavior, love bank deposits, and the like. My XW even stated she felt Dr. Harleys methods would have worked. This is not my assuming a position of judgment. Its a revelation after months of prayer, due diligence, and seeking out of those who share the same experiences.

Again, this is not some spooky, judgmental, over spiritualized, crazy talk. If you care to know more I would be happy to share with the biblical support, application, and many testimonies from those who share the SAME playbook that accompanies this spirit.

Last edited by DNT; 04/19/14 09:26 PM.

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Originally Posted By: markos
"spirit of Jezebel" is a made up phrase, Biblically speaking.
Biblically speaking...the Queen Jezebel and King Ahab reign is found in 1 Kings 18 through 1 Kings 22. Jesus addresses the "Spirit of Jezebel" in Revelation 2:18-29


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But we have to be careful about blaming demons for our sins. The Book of Romans says that "all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God," and that "there is none righteous, no not one."

In fact, a sinner cannot even chose to stop sinning on their own. Like lost sheep, we have all gone astray. WE are so evil in our hearts that God declares 'There is none that seeketh after me."

Furthermore, the Epistle of James explains that we sin because our hearts are wicked and desire sin....

Only the mercy of God, through Jesus Christ's sacrifice on the Cross can save us from our sins and wash away our filthy hearts.


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Oh, I want to clarify something: We can turn from sin with the grace of God.
So we have a choice ONLY through the grace of God, NOT of our own will

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Jedi - I am in total agreement with you. We can turn from our sin. It's a matter of submitting our will to the will of the Father through Christ Jesus. He won't force his will upon us...as I won't force my will upon my XW. In fact...Jezebel is such a prideful and unwilling spirit that Revelations states it has to put her on a "bed of sickness" as a result of the unwillingness to repent. The name Jezebel literally translates "unhusbandman, without husband, and non-cohabitated"...how convenient. I've been instructed by spiritual counsel and Holy Spirit through prayer to keep a distance and allow things to run it's course. I can't even "pray for her", because it would enable an unhealthy soul tie which would do more damage to me than her and prolong repentance. Sigh...this is a while different beast. No pun intended.

Last edited by DNT; 04/19/14 09:54 PM.

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The Bible is very clear that "the prayer of a righteous man is a powerful and effective weapon."

There is no soul tie to others when we pray for them. In a sense, we are all related to one another because we are all humans, children of Adam and Eve.

Any doctrine that discourages prayer is not Biblical.
When the Nation of Israel committed horrible adultery against God, God was about to destroy them and kill Aaron. But Moses interceded through prayer and God turned away from his wrath.

Hundreds of years later, the Nation of Israel and Judea was again living in adultery and God instructed the Prophet Hosea to let the adulteress wife leave, but she would face consequences and be under the wrath of God.

Jesus said to "pray for one another." He never told us not to pray for another person. He even told us to pray for our enemies.

On a personal note, I have been divorced for 2 years. But I pray for my ex wife every day, sometimes several times a day. I've asked my Sunday School class and Church to pray for her (and her mother) also. When I was first divorced, I had to emotionally separate from her and was not praying for her. But over time, I saw her as a lost soul living in sin and in need of a Savior.
We all need Jesus.

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