Brothers and Sisters,

I don't feel God working in my life. Either that, or I don't like the feelings associated with God working in my life.

I'm guilty of many LB's and since September, I've asked God to show me those before I comitt them so I can change my behavior. However, it seems that either I cannot hear God, or he and his Holy Spirit are unwilling to show me the path.

My wife has now filed for divorce and acts angry with me.

My faith is really shaken, not because of her filing for divorce, but because my honest desire to change, to be more sensitive, to not LB (DJ's, AB such as arguing, not listening, you name it, I probably do it) doesn't seem to be working.

I am willing to do the work, but it doesn't come naturally to me, and I expected God to answer my prayer so I would know not to do these things.

Pray for me that I might find what God has for me in all of this.

Pray for my wife and children. She feels divorce is the only way for her to be happy. So this further discourages me since I asked God to help me discover and become the Christian man that I should be and the loving, sensitive husband and father my family deserves and God calls me to be.

I read the scripture each day, I pray, I've spent hundreds of dollars on books and thousands on counselling and therapy and am no better than I was 6 months ago. My wife is even further from me than 6 months ago.

I don't understand God's plan, and I don't understand His timing.

I just know that I hurt a lot, and my faith is shaken.

Help,

Tony

Dear Tony,

I will pray for you and your family.

I know the feelings of not understanding God's workings in your life, and in fact have written my own post about it. I HEAR YOU!

I will pray that God's Perfect Will will prevail and that you can find peace as you wait for it.

By the way, I suspect you are INDEED better than you were six months ago, but that your wife has blinders on and can't see it.

Tony,

My prayers are with you. Believe me, I know how hard this must be for you. There is a reason for it. We don't know what that is yet, but God will reveal it you in His time. My H said the very same things, he was angry with me, cold, bitter, and would never come back. He thought this is what God wanted for him, the path he was supposed to take & now it's a different tune. God has bigger plans, different plans, that we don't understand but we must TRUST him. He is the only one who knows what He's doing. Pray over your W & children. And pray that God continues to change you into the person you were created to be. It is happening. You might not see the effects yet, but it is happening. I don't know what else to tell you, but know that you have many people here praying for you & if you need to post often, please do. Keep reading your scripture & ask Him to speak to you through that. He will. It just takes time & patience. If need be, ask Him for patience as well.

I'll be praying for you.

java,
I feel for you and I know what you are going through. I have changed from my walk with Jesus, yet my W (non-believer - for now <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ) is still proceeding with the D.

I know it's tough. Remember though, His Will IS PERFECT. And His Ways are not our ways. I see NO change in my W, yet God has shown me signs, over and over again, that He wants me to stay here, even though I have been given opportunities and have asked Him to make the D final quickly.

I don't know what His plans are for me. What I do know is that THEY ARE THE PERFECT PLANS FOR ME.

Lately, I have been focusing on the Fruits of the Spirit. I am constantly reading and praying for those gifts to be in my life. The big three for me are Patience, Self-Control and Joy. Slowly, I am getting them, and I am still IMpatient <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> .

Just hang in there brother.

"Abba, Daddy. Even though You created us, we act as though we are god and know what is best for us. We ask that you remove that sinful pride from our being and forgive us for our insolence(sp). Replace these negative attributes with patience and understanding. Enlighten us to any wrongs we have not confessed, or have forgotten, that may be holding us back from Your love and that of our spouses. We ask this by the Love and Selflessness Your Son Jesus Christ showed by dying on the cross. Amen."

My very first MB post is here First Post and I'm still asking for the same things.

Am I too dense, stubborn, lost to hear how God is going to change me?

Or am I too dense to see the progress I've made? Or maybe better, the changes the Lord has already brought in my life?

Tony

Tony,

I'm feeling your pain. I wish I could just reach out & give you a hug so how about this? {{{{{{{{{{{TONY}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} It is so very hard to see the good things around you when faced with a crisis like this. I know many times that I have sat & cried & cried & cried, looking at my life and wondering if I truly was the Christian that I said I was? I felt completely lost. Many times I could not see the light at the end of the tunnel, I could only see the darkness around me. So I started to make a list of things I needed to be thankful for. Every time I thought of something else, or something good happened, I added it to the list. I have this hanging by my computer at work. I also printed out a cartoon that showed someone laughing hysterically with the quote, God can't do what? THat's hilarious! This was my inspiration (among other things) that kept me going, pushing forward, praying non-stop, believing that God would fulfill the promise He made. THat His word would not come back void.

I also made a list of prayer requests, a lot for myself, some for my H, and for others. Every time one of those prayers got answered, I would check it off. This helped me see God's glory all around me & helped me keep motivated to still stand for my M. I would also write beside the prayer a YES, NO, or WAIT. If the answer to that prayer was a no, then I would put the good thing that happened because the answer to that prayer was no, does that make sense? It also helped me when I watched the movie, Bruce Almighty. I don't know how many people liked this movie, but I always try to relate myself to some character in a movie (yes, I'm a movie buff). When Bruce gets all that power, he answers everyone's prayers with a YES. Then we start to see the effects of how those yeses wreaked havoc because they were meant to be nos. We have the DVD and in the deleted scenes, there's one scene they show with "God" explaining to Bruce why He says yes sometimes & why He says no sometimes. It really helped me see my situation a lot more clearer. It helped me realize why God has us wait or tells us no or answers yes. He always knows what's best for us when we don't know ourselves.

I'm sure if you go back through these months since September & really do some soul searching, you will find things that God has changed about you. You just have to look for them. Even if certain emotions haven't gone away, does it take you longer to get to that negative emotion or do you come out of it faster than you did before? I know in my case, I had an EXTREMELY bad temper. I am very impatient. I get frustrated easily. I saw this in myself (after my H left & also one of the reasons he did leave). God opened my eyes to that. And then I asked him to change that in me. What happened? Yes, I still get angry. Yes I still am impatient. But I have taken notice that I do not get angry as often or as long as I did before. Sometimes, yes, I get to the point where I can't take it anymore & explode, but whereas before it was quite frequently, now it's once in a while. I never, ever thought I would be willing to wait for my H to come back home. I am still waiting really, because he's not back in the same bed with me, sharing it as a husband & wife should. He is sleeping on the couch, but I am waiting on the Lord for that - in due time. I prayed for God to keep bringing my H home until he no longer wanted to leave, and that has happened. God kept bringing him by, kept allowing him to visit, chatting with me, yes, he'd leave at the end of the night, but in time, it kept getting gradual until now, he wants to come here after work & sleep & wake up with the kids in the morning. He is at the point that he no longer wants to leave. Granted, he doesn't feel he is ready to share the same bed, but God answered my prayer. I was looking for it one way, and it came out another way. In time, God's time, it will be the way it should be.

Please Tony, I urge you to really pray & ask God to show you how you have changed and I bet you'll be surprised just how very much you have changed since September.

Sorry this post is so long, but I couldn't help myself! {{{{{{{{{{HUGS TO YOU}}}}}}}}}

Hi Tony,
You know, it might be an unpopular idea, but I would print that first post (this thread, not the old thread), and mail it to her.

My thinking is, what do you have to loose? It's a different approach, you sound defeated and humble, and it may just tweek a heartstring of hers.

Otherwise, you know the hard part about keeping the faith is keeping the faith.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My faith is really shaken, not because of her filing for divorce, but because my honest desire to change, to be more sensitive, to not LB (DJ's, AB such as arguing, not listening, you name it, I probably do it) doesn't seem to be working.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Not working, or not working on her? You have evolved. Your are working on yourself and I admire you greatly for that. She's the fool who doesnt want to see that.

She failed. You may have been ignorant, but she failed. She took a vow and she's running away. She failed.

You are not supposed to understand Gods plan. Do you want a God who is so simple that YOU can understand him? I dont.

Find something to focus on besides yourself and the marriage for the weekend. Big Brothers is always looking for good men. Keeping busy was the best medication I could get. I know you are hurting. But please know that this is right... you have feelings, your wife has left you and you should be sad. And know you will survive. Please take care- Dru

Hi Java,

I am sorry for your pain. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I want to encourage you to seek God FIRST... not men (people). I say this with love and gentleness... I know that you have sought much advice on the EN (and I think divorcing) board. But, Java, the majority of people giving you advice there, while they might be nice and people that you consider a friend... if they do not know the Lord, they do not have the mind of Christ, and their advice to you will not be Biblical and thus, will ultimately be harmful to you.

You must guard your heart against any ungodly/unbiblical advice. Be in the Word... study it and know it so that if you do receive unbiblical advice, you can discern it and chuck it if necessary. With your books and counselors... you need to do this.

Our hearts are so deceitful and so easily led astray... that it doesn't take much for us to be led away from God by people who may mean well, but whose thinking is not Christlike.

If you seek advice but leave with anger, hatred towards your wife, discontent, confusion, frustration, etc... then you are receiving ungodly advice. And what I am seeing you write here is words of frustration and confusion, and I honestly believe a part of this is because you are seeking advice... often... from ungodly people.

Christians, true followers of Christ, simply cannot have peace in their lives if they are following any of the world's ways or advice. You might be feeling as if you aren't hearing from God because you are listening to others... to unbelievers who aren't sharing God's Word with you. And it might be that you are hearing so much worldly thinking that it is choking the Word within you and leaving you feeling distant from God.

I realize I take a risk saying this because someone reading it could be offended, but I feel that it is important to remind you of this.

I have often sensed the Lord in the prayer forum... and it is different in here... there is pain, yes, but there is also hope and endurace. God is love. He is forgiveness, He is gentleness, He is kindness, He is goodness. If the advice you have been receiving into your life is not gentle, kind, loving, good... if it is not Biblical, do not take it and do not seek it any longer. Seek FIRST the Lord... and "all these things shall be added unto you."

I'm trying to keep this brief because I tend to write novels <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> , and I hope it does not sound too blunt.

God bless!

<small>[ February 20, 2004, 06:01 PM: Message edited by: LoveMyEx ]</small>

javasanscontour/Tony,

I have written to you once or twice before, and I believe I have an important message for you today. I notice in your post two topics that I think need to be addresses: 1) you don't "feel" God or "feel" like He is working in your life, and 2) you keep trying but it doesn't seem like its working.

Regarding "feelings"...well unfortunately we called to obey God whether we fell like it or not. In fact, we are to be the masters of our emotions and not let them be the masters of us! So, in simple terms this means that we are not always going to "feel" like God is there...but that doesn't mean He's not there!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> "I am with you always." This is a PROMISE and it is ROCK SOLID--so Tony, I CAN GUARANTEE YOU that He is there!!! And your job-duty-responsibility is to TRUST Him that He is there even when you don't "feel" it, and to act exactly as if He was right there with you. Okay?? You have a calling, my friend.

Secondly, you keep trying but it doesn't seem to be working. I will speak to you directly from my own life. If I love God, I will give myself completely to Him and surrender each person in life whom I love to His care. HIS care...not mine. I do not need to be afraid to do this, like I would if God were a human being asking me to make this sort of surrender. God not only asks me to give EVERYTHING to Him...but He has already given everything for me. His love and commitment to me are far greater than I can imagine. Loving Him requires me to totally abandon myself--but my life is completely safe in His hands.

Does this make sense to you? We are required (not requested) to give it ALL...EVERYTHING...EVERYONE...to Him--and we have to take our hands off and trust Him. Can you do that, Tony. Completely and fully give yourself AND YOUR WIFE to God and take your hands off. You and she are COMPLETELY SAFE in His hands.

Finally, I have some concrete advice for you. Rush out TONIGHT and buy the book: "Winning Back Your Wife Before It's Too Late" by Gary Smalley. Speaking as a wife who's husband was involved in more than one affair, my heart was broken and I was so hurt that the only solution I could imagine was DISTANCE--and I wanted my marriage! But I read this book, and I can honestly say that my heart LONGED and ACHED for my husband to do the things in this book! I loved him adnd wished he would humble himself before God and repair things with me. Sadly, he chose not to. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

So, go buy the book!! I think it might give you a "plan" and having a plan is helpful. If you can't find the book, let me know and I'll type it for you or email you or SOMETHING! Okay?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />


CJ

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FaithfulWife:
<strong> javasanscontour/Tony,

I have written to you once or twice before, and I believe I have an important message for you today. I notice in your post two topics that I think need to be addresses: 1) you don't "feel" God or "feel" like He is working in your life, and 2) you keep trying but it doesn't seem like its working.

Regarding "feelings"...well unfortunately we called to obey God whether we fell like it or not. In fact, we are to be the masters of our emotions and not let them be the masters of us! So, in simple terms this means that we are not always going to "feel" like God is there...but that doesn't mean He's not there!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> "I am with you always." This is a PROMISE and it is ROCK SOLID--so Tony, I CAN GUARANTEE YOU that He is there!!! And your job-duty-responsibility is to TRUST Him that He is there even when you don't "feel" it, and to act exactly as if He was right there with you. Okay?? You have a calling, my friend.

Secondly, you keep trying but it doesn't seem to be working. I will speak to you directly from my own life. If I love God, I will give myself completely to Him and surrender each person in life whom I love to His care. HIS care...not mine. I do not need to be afraid to do this, like I would if God were a human being asking me to make this sort of surrender. God not only asks me to give EVERYTHING to Him...but He has already given everything for me. His love and commitment to me are far greater than I can imagine. Loving Him requires me to totally abandon myself--but my life is completely safe in His hands.

Does this make sense to you? We are required (not requested) to give it ALL...EVERYTHING...EVERYONE...to Him--and we have to take our hands off and trust Him. Can you do that, Tony. Completely and fully give yourself AND YOUR WIFE to God and take your hands off. You and she are COMPLETELY SAFE in His hands.

Finally, I have some concrete advice for you. Rush out TONIGHT and buy the book: "Winning Back Your Wife Before It's Too Late" by Gary Smalley. Speaking as a wife who's husband was involved in more than one affair, my heart was broken and I was so hurt that the only solution I could imagine was DISTANCE--and I wanted my marriage! But I read this book, and I can honestly say that my heart LONGED and ACHED for my husband to do the things in this book! I loved him adnd wished he would humble himself before God and repair things with me. Sadly, he chose not to. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

So, go buy the book!! I think it might give you a "plan" and having a plan is helpful. If you can't find the book, let me know and I'll type it for you or email you or SOMETHING! Okay?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />


CJ </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">CJ,

That was the first book I've read, well besides Scripture.

Ironically, as smart as I am, I don't seem to learn well from books. I'll look at it again however.

Let me post the "Library"

Winning Your Wife Back Before I'ts Too Late
The Five People You Meet in Heaven
The Five Love Languages
Do I have to give up me to be loved by you
Disappointment with God
Controlling People
Every Man's Battle
If Only He Knew
Do I have to give up me to be loved by God
Wild At Heart
Love Busters
His Needs, Her Needs
Surviving an Affair
The Present
The Power of a Praying Husband


Reading right now:

Beyond Anger a Guide For Men
The Lost Art of Listening
The Purpose Driven Life

In the Queue:
The Divorce Remedy
Messages
Listening The Forgotton Skill
Messages

On the way from Amazon:
Discovering The Mind Of A Woman The Key To Becoming A Strong And Irresistable Husband Is...
The Dance of Connection: How to Talk to Someone When You're Mad, Hurt, Scared, Frustrated, Insulted, Betrayed, or Desperate
Complete Husband

Maybe I've read too much?

Tony

I also would encourage you to get that G. Smalley book. It is very good. Also there is one called "How to Save Your Marriage Alone" by Ed Wheat (only $3.99). Also good. And with specific, practiacal insight/counselr for men.

Have you ever been to www.rejoiceministries.org or www.restorem.org ? Go there if you haven't.

Java, I do not wish to offend you or say what I am going to say without love and gentleness. I do not know you, but as you and I are both Christians in the body of Christ, I beleive that we are to "sharpen each other." I'm very tired right now and that verse is not coming to me!

I think perhaps you cannot see it, but I want to again gently share with you that you WILL feel discouraged, confused, frustrated, etc. if you continue to pour out your heart and the details of your marriage and wife to nonChristians (or even to those who claim to know Christ but do not speak with love or view things Biblically). I also see you in a place where I too have been and have to fight to stay out of (and am not always successful)... and that is in that slough of self-pity and despair. Again, I truly say this with love because I see a man whose faith, hope, and love is choked by anxiety, self-pity, fear, and also worldly advice.

I happened to read your post on EN and here are some excerpts of some counsel given to you:

The following was said about your wife:

"She is probably boinking another man, a married man at that, and has not and will not be honest with you about any of the truth of that."

"She sounds like she is immature and a creep and rude and non-responsive to you."

"She has always been a difficult person and very "difficult to live with" for whatever reason making your "entire marriage" difficult and argumentative and devoid of peace and understanding."

"Why the heck do you still want her back? Is love so blind that it cannot see when you "accidently love a creep" (meaning loving the wrong person for you)?"

Here, your wife has been called a creep, immature, difficult, rude, and accused of an affair, in which this poster lacked the tact to call it that but instead called it "boinking." You are asked why would you want her back and told that you love the "wrong person." You are encouraged to seek other women. The poster encourages you by saying:

"There are 100's of women out there you can meet that will love only you."

"There are many good, honest women who you can compatably and peacefully live with on a daily basis without constant drama and turmoil and constantly having to assert your own boundaries."

"There are many women who will not merely suck up your money but plan and stick to financial goals for the good of you both and your kids."

And she goes on to list FIVE more "positives" about other women out there who'd be "better suited" for you. (I won't list them all). But it is a comparison of how there are other women, who, in this poster's view, are "better" than your wife.

There is much more lengthy discourse asking you why you love your wife, why you don't let her go, why you love a "creep," and so on. It sickened me to read it. YOu were told that you should let her go so that you can meet the "true love of your life."

And then, more adjectives about your wife: "sex- withholding, immature, selfish, manipulative, lying, money grubbing, difficult to live with, difficult to please, difficult to communicate with, cheating women back into the marriage????"

"SHE DOES NOT LOVE YOU MAN!" (in caps, nonetheless)

"Are you nutz? You would be better off with a better type of woman!"

"She is "not worth it" the way she has behaved toward you and is still behaving in her own life. She just simply "is not able" or "does not want to love you" as much love as it takes for a good marriage. She is the type of women who is very difficult to live with."

"She will still be an immature, money spending, manipulating, difficult to please, cheater. (I am not calling her names as much as I am stating facts as I have read them in your posts.)"

JAVA, you have given many details of your marriage and wife to others, and they are giving you ungodly, unloving advice. If that is really what you want, then take it. But if you truly are desiring to hear from the Lord... well, you cannot both hear the things above and hear from the Lord. The Lord would NEVER call your wife a creep or other condemning adjectives. The Lord would NEVER encourage you to go find a "better woman." Your divorce may happen, you may remarry down the road... but the Lord does not encourage divorce or for us to seek "better" spouses. That is completely worldly teaching. In fact, Paul says its better to just stay single.

I don't know if you will accept what I am saying or if you will feel offended or disregard it, but you WILL continue to feel these feelings of hopelessness, despair, pity, etc. as long as you continue to "put up with" teachings from people who do not have the mind of Christ.

I realize I might possibly stand alone in saying this and will be literally verbally "beat" by those who have given you ungodly advice (I'm used to it though, on here at least. I tend to "offend" by confronting comments that I feel are very harmful or untruths). But I hope that you will be able to hear what I am saying.

You are seeking advice from ungodly people and I honestly believe with all my heart that it only stirs up your anger, fears, suspicions, and dissatisfactions with your wife. And those things (anger, fear, not loving your wife... EVEN IF she is sinning horribly...) are sin. And sin hinders our walk with God. We have to confess it, repent of it, and continuously flee it and fight it.

In your response to this poster above, I read the words of a defeated men who took in what was said and allowed it to pierce your heart.

Don't. Don't allow it in, Java.

Open your Bible. Seek advice from GOD!! And if you feel you must seek men, seek only GODLY men... godly authors, godly counselors, godly laypeople.

Again, I have nothing to gain by saying these things to you, but as a Christian sister, I see these things and feel that I need to take the risk to share them with you. Please consider what I am saying and think about it.

You are struggling with self-pity, discontent, fear, doubt, faith... IF you allow these words of others (words filled with condemnations, accusations, and a "me first" mentality) to take root in your mind and heart, you will only grow to become even MORE fearful, doubtful, faithless, self-piteous and discontent.

<small>[ February 21, 2004, 10:27 PM: Message edited by: LoveMyEx ]</small>

P.S. Java, perhaps you should examine your reasons for seeking advice here. I saw that your initial post was here on the prayer forum. But then you went to the EN board. Perhaps it might help if you verbalize your reasons. As a Christian man, why are you turning to ungodly advice? Yes, there are some Christian people there who've been able to offer you some solid teaching. But, they are few and far between.

Has the advice you have been given there helped you? Do you feel better, stronger, filled with peace after reading it? Or do you hate your wife afterwards? Would God ever give you words that would cause you to hate your wife? Or would He give you hope, strength, and peace... not necessairily in specific regard to your wife... but merely because you are walking with Him and in His presence.

In your time on the EN board, are you neglecting anything? Bible study? Time with family? Do you turn there out of loneliness? Are you neglecting church or real-life friends? I read in your first post that you were going to church and had some male accountability partners.

Java, I know the pain of divorce. Believe me. I know the anger, the confusion, the heartache, the desperation, the roller-coaster-emotions in which one minute you are loving your "enemy" and the next minute, you just want revenge! I have been there. I still go back there every now and then. But I know w/o a doubt that if I shared my story to nonChristians and asked them to guide me through it, to tell me what to do... if I asked them why my husband was doing this or that... my heart would be in such turmoil. I would hear all sorts of opinions (people are opinionated period!). I have only shared very few things about my husband's sins and wrongdoings, adn the few times I have, I regretted it and was convicted over it because it was shared to family members who are not Christian. And of course there reaction was to verbbally assault my husband and look at it through worldly eyes.

I only felt worse than I did before.

My God is sufficient. He is your God too. And He is sufficient for you. He wants to bear your burdens. He wants you to cry out to HIM... to seek HIM... to obey HIM... not people!

I know this must sound unloving of me and I do hope and pray that the Lord will give you eyes and ears to accept what I'm saying.

I have far more peace, strength, and joy by turning to God and God alone (through prayer, Bible study, giving to others, fellowship with others, fasting, obedience....) than I ever did when I sought counsel from others.

This is YOUR marriage and the people giving you advice aren't in your marriage. You are giving them ammunition with which to shoot your wife. I did this too a few times, and regretted it. When I heard negative things, I hated it and thought, "it's my own fault for opening my mouth and sharing what I did."

Well, I should go and let you think about this, if you read it.

I do hope and pray that the Lord gives you wisdom in your situation. I know that your heart aches and it feels as if it is all far more than you can bear. The Lord is near you. Call out to Him, seek Him, hold fast to Him. May He give you wisdom, strength, and comfort to face this difficult time.

God bless you Java.

LoveMyEx,

There is a lot of truth in what you say. Oh, I need to add to my book list that small book you are talking about. I didn't see it in my stack of books I've read.

My head and heart is tired tonight. I've been driven like a pinball this week with work as well as having to get a lawyer now, etc.

I'm looking hard for God and his words of wisdom in the scripture.

I guess I'm not hearing it or understanding His message for me. Perhaps it is wrong for me to go to the EN board to have my need for conversation met, to figure out what her needs are.

Maybe God can show me in a dream tonight what I am to do. He has shown Himself to me in dreams before. I've been given specific scriptures to read from dreams, scriptures I've never read before.

I am just worn out and a lot of my fatigue is from NOT hearing from God. If God would just tell me what to do, if He would just answer my prayers about this, if He would just take this issue like I keep asking Him to do. Not that I'm unwilling to do the work. However, if the answer is wait, the I ask that He give me something to do, and perhaps heal my heart.

I know, that sounds selfish, and perhaps it is.

I'm tired and babbling, so if is off to bed.

Pray that I get a clear message from God that is unmistakable, and that I get a good nights sleep.

Thanks,

Tony

Java, you said on the EN board, after reading the response you were given about your wife being a "creep," etc.

"Sometimes, I just want to side with -----, because it just seems so easy."

You are tempted to side with her. God says that we must FLEE temptation. When I read this, I thought of Joseph. He was a single, and apparantly very handsome, man and here comes this beautiful woman who seduces him... literally BEGS him to have sex with her. And what does he do? He runs so fast that he leaves his robe there. And then what does she do? Falsely accuses him of rape and puts him in prison.

But God blessed and delivered him. He did the right thing.

When we are tempted... we need to flee. But first we have to recognize the temptation. We have to call it for what it is. And we have to know what the Word of God teaches, so that we can say, "It seems easy," and then say, "But God's ways are not easy... He says that we are even blessed if we suffer for doing right... He tells us to bless our enemies, to persevere, that love is patient and longsuffering... He says that we are to pray in all things, that we are to not let the sun set on our anger, that we are to give thanks in ALL things."

And then ask, "Is that what I'm doing if I take the 'easy' way?"

Flee some of the advice you've been given Java. Just flee it and don't seek it. If there are some godly people who've given you sound, good advice, maybe you can privately email them. Or post on the prayer board. But the other advice.. the advice that is unBiblical... well, hold it up to the light of God's Word... examine it... if it's not Biblical, then it is going to harm you or deceive you or mislead you, and in the end, you will only be further from God than before and more miserable than before.

God's ways are not our ways. His ways are higher and better. Know Him. Know what He requires. Know what He says. Set your face like flint and fix your thoughts on Jesus. Not on your marriage... not on seeking advice, but on Jesus. In the midst of your pain, worship Him... praise Him... call out to Him.

Alright, now I am really going!
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

(And again, I say all this in love and I'm saying it to myself too! I don't say it as a perfect person banging you over the head, but as a Christian sister who too has often weakened in my faith and been swayed by worldly thinking).

Tony, I am glad to hear from you. I will pray for you. I will pray that God gives you rest, comfort, strength, and wisdom.

Keep doing as you are by looking in the Scripture. If you continue to, you WILL hear from God and it WILL be unmistakeable. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> He is not hiding from you. He is there, and He has told you His will within the pages of the Bible.

Tony, I don't think it's necessarily "wrong" for you to go to the EN board, but is it beneficial? Seeking help, support, encouragement, and counsel is not wrong.... but we have to be discerning in where we seek it and always examine the advice in the light of God's Word. If you are receiving godly advice there, then by all means, do not leave. I have seen much advice to you though that is not godly or beneficial.

May you sleep soundly and may the Lord bless you with peaceful sleep.

He loves you. He may seem silent, but He loves you and He knows your pain. He has seen your tears, heard your cries, and is near you. Don't wait for the thunder and lightening, but listen for the still, small whisper of the Lord. Quiet yourself before Him... still your heart... confess your fears and anxieties... be in His presence and wait upon Him with hope and faith.

His purpose is not to make everything easy for you or to fix things instantly... it's not even to make you "happy"... his purpose is to refine your character so that you will have the mind of Christ, so that you will be so in love with Him that you will share the good news to others... so that you will have victory over your sins and will have a testimony of what the Lord has done in your life and can do in others.

Hang in there Tony!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by javaSansContour:
CJ,

That was the first book I've read, well besides Scripture.

Ironically, as smart as I am, I don't seem to learn well from books. I'll look at it again however.

Let me post the "Library"...[/qb]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Haha! Tony, you may not know it, but you are a giggle. Yep, I can DEFINITELY relate to reading a library of self-help books. I have done the same myself when my marriage was falling apart.

Maybe I am projecting too much of myself onto you, but when I was reading book after book after book, I was trying to make sense of something that was nonsensical. That's a wierd word, isn't it? Anyway, what I mean is that my head could not understand what was happening or why, and my head was SCREAMING OUT to understand...

One of the hard things about going through this process is that it DOESN'T make sense and you will not understand. It's incomprehensible. You could read a thousand books and while you might eventually be able to explain it, or diagnose what the "issues" were, you wouldn't be able to understand. Okay?

So what DO you do?? "Be still and know that I am God." Stop squirming and struggling and be still. Quiet your mind. The Serenity Prayer says, "God grant me the serenity to accept the thing I cannot change...the courage to change the things I can...and the wisdom to know the difference." Well, Tony, the only thing you CAN change is YOU. You can not change your wife or make her want your marriage or make her want you. You can change TONY. So allow God to give you His peace and acceptance over things that are not in your hands--and allow God to give you the BRAVERY to change YOU and change your own heart.

Tony, your head and eyes may have read the words in Gary Smalley's book, but from what I can see, your actions did not reflect change or deep, soul understanding. So, I have a challenge for you. Let's go through the book on a thread, and I will tell you how it feels and what I think from the "wife's" point of view. Are you up to the challenge? Are you brave enough to really hear and discuss the ways you have hurt your wife??

I'm not being cocky here. I'm hoping that by really discussing the actual concepts in this book, that maybe (just maybe) God will reach down and touch your heart.

Take some time. Rest. Prepare yourself and take care of yourself, and we will start on Sunday night.


CJ

FaithfulWife, that is a good idea, about the book. I also own the book... I did the same as you, hoped my husband would read... he didn't. I can't blame him. I think if he'd given me a wife book in the midst of anger in the hopes I'd be a "better" wife.... well, I guess there's something to be said about timing! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Anyways, I don't know if I have time to read it thoroughly or post, but that would be a good book to possibly interact with on the prayer board. I think some of the men might be interested and also many of the principals in it apply to women as well.

Have you read the one for women ("How to Win Your Husband Back?). It also is good.

Blessings...

I'd like to get some rest...

...but I just got paged.

However, since I'm turning over a new leaf and trying to find the blessing in everything, I guess that means I still have a job <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Tony

Java/Tony,

I often "harp" on this board "...in everything give thanks" and that does not just mean when things are going good. It means EVERY THING.

So, I join you in thanking God that you are still employed and still able to provide for yourself and your family. I thank God that you have the financial means to live comfortably. I thank God that the batteries in your pager still work. I thank God that you will have the chance to rest another time. I thank God that He is with you, even in the middle of the night when you have to go. I thank God that He sent you here to MB. I thank God that you are in His hands. I thank God for you. I thank God for the work He is doing in you, even though you are tired.

And now, I have one request and only one request of God on your behalf. "Abba, I ask You to fill Tony with Your peace and rest tonight. Still His heart and cuddle him in the palm of Your hand so he can be renewed. THANKS!!"


CJ

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FaithfulWife:
<strong>
Tony, your head and eyes may have read the words in Gary Smalley's book, but from what I can see, your actions did not reflect change or deep, soul understanding. So, I have a challenge for you. Let's go through the book on a thread, and I will tell you how it feels and what I think from the "wife's" point of view. Are you up to the challenge? Are you brave enough to really hear and discuss the ways you have hurt your wife??

I'm not being cocky here. I'm hoping that by really discussing the actual concepts in this book, that maybe (just maybe) God will reach down and touch your heart.

Take some time. Rest. Prepare yourself and take care of yourself, and we will start on Sunday night.


CJ </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sure, I want to understand. I've been telling my W that I want to understand. She only wants me to understand that she wants a D.

I do think I need to let go of her. If she is going against God's will, she will fall.

While I cannot change her, I can be concerned that she is not doing the right thing. However, I must counter that thought with this is the path that God allows her to take. There is something that she has to learn, much like I have to learn something now.

I do hope God can bring us back together again, and that we are both so close to God that we don't hurt each other again.

Tony