Hey Prayer Warriors,

I know this sounds odd, but my W was practically crying when she got off the phone and she wasn't happy with me.

Yet I'm excited.

Ok, nothing like she sees the error of her ways. Quite the opposite. But I got a big insight into how she feels and confirmation of what are the biggest stumbling blocks.

So here is what 'ole jSC needs to work on.

Never asking her to reconsider the divorce again. I told her I wouldn't ask again, so I need to be reminded by the Holy Spirit that I made that promise.

Loosening up. I'm too uptight.

Seeing the big picture. The call ended with her upset that I didn't agree that it is better for our YD to always be with her on a school night. I know that it really doesn't make a difference, but by disagreeing with her, she is reminded of all of our other disagreements. So I need to pick my fights wisely.

I got all of these messages out of this.

The changes are happening in me. I just need more work to become a more attractive alternative to divorce.

I've become in many ways, an ugly person, and I want to change. I want to be less stressed and more happy-go-lucky.

Sometimes it's hard to do that when she took the kids and left the debt with me.

But the most promising thing is that she did talk with me, so she does want me to know, even if she is unwilling to consider any other outcome than divorce.

Tony

Java,

I have to admit my mind is not at its best tonight, but as always, I have an opinion! Boy, for a feeler I always have a thought, don't I? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Anyway, in general I do not look at it as a "good" thing that your W was almost in tears and not happy with you--but I really DO think it is a huge, HUGE, HUGE step forward that you were able to see the insights that you saw.

1) Never ask her to reconsider divorce again. To be honest, I completely agree with this. By continually asking her to reconsider, what you're communicating to her is that her decisions are faulty and don't need to be respected. Communicate RESPECT--that she has the right and privilege to make up her own mind without you bugging her to change--and you will go a LONG way.

2)Loosen up. I also completely agree with this. Find fun again. Find joy. Laugh. Smile. Joke. Tease. Kid around. Play. Don't take everything so seriously. Go on a merry-go-round or roll down a hill--it will change your perspective on being a grown up. Be silly. Tickle. Give people permission to make mistakes without being pounced on...it's a carpet, or a dish, or a pair of socks. WHO CARES?! The person you crush for making a mistake is worth FAR more than the item that was lost.

3)See the big picture. Yep--I completely agree with this one too. You married your W for life...LIFE. That means if you were 25yo when you married, and you two live to 75yo, that's 50 YEARS together. Even if she is being completely idiotic and unreasonable and going through a horrible life change--she's allowed. We're talking a year or two of being a [censored] in a 50 YEAR relationship. Support her and help her get through this, and the one year of being a jerk will be worth the 48 years you gain. And hey--to be honest I don't think she's being completely idiotic or unreasonable.

Regarding custody, is your D safe with your W? Does she have the basics of life (food, clothes, shelter)? Is your W endangering your D by living an addicted or immoral life? If not, I say be firm but flexible with custody. Express your love for your D. Be willing to watch her any time you're asked...take every precious moment you can...and remember that your D needs you too so make the effort to be with her and go to HER. Tony, remember, she is the child and you are the adult, and as the more mature one, its your job to make the effort to be with her--not her job to get to you. Does that make sense??

4)Stop being the ugly person, and become the attractive man you are. Self explanatory. I completely agre with this too.

All-in-all I agree that this was an exciting moment: you started to see the areas where you would like to work! YAY!


CJ

CJ,

This is really hard for me because I feel like I've been giving since 9/6/2003 and haven't gotten much in return.

I know you are telling me all of these things are interpreted by her as dis'ing her in many ways.

I dunno, how come I'm the one who feels so dis'ed?

Tony

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> This is really hard for me because I feel like I've been giving since 9/6/2003 and haven't gotten much in return. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Just a thought, Java. This really struck me. Are you giving to your W expecting to receive something in return? I think maybe you are. You are giving all these things of yourself, changing yourself, etc. for HER and she isn't giving you anything back. This is not the thing to do. When you start giving of yourself not expecting anything in return, maybe you'll start to see some results. Like I said, this was just a thought. It's my VHO of course.

I guess that didn't come out the right way.

What I mean is all I've gotten is more anger, bitterness, and words such as I should be happy that I get to see our daughter 2 days out of every 14.

I don't expect her to come back, per se, but I would like her to keep her word that she wants to remain on friendly terms, things like that.

I would like her to take a moment and at least consider another POV.

She doesn't have to agree with me, but if I would just hear her say that she sees what I'm saying, even if she feels or thinks differently.

But alas, I guess you and others are telling me that even that is too much to expect.

It's too much to expect someone to keep their word, and to treat others in a fashion they wish to be treated.

No, I don't expect her to come back based on what I'm doing. But I'd like her to at least be something close to the woman I first met, but perhaps even better.

The anger, bitterness, issue avoidance certainly is not attractive.

This is what I pray for, that if my heart is not right, that I'm shown this.

The message I'm getting is that the better I become, the more bitter, angry and the more she avoids me.

So either, I'm failing, or she feels a great amount of guilt.

When I ASKED her to pray that I'm successful on improving, she said "Don't tell me what to do."

You know what, I wasn't telling her what to do, I was asking someone who has said she wanted to be my friend to support me in this endeavor, regardless of the state of our romance.

But if I understand what you are saying, I shouldn't expect her to actually honor the words she uses, and that I should be ok with her twisting my words.

That for me to ask is really a selfish demand.

The logical part of me cannot deal with that, a question is only a question. A request is only a request.

I only understand that she sees them in a different way. Does that mean that I should defer to her POV only? That I shouldn't expect that she even considers that a request is only a request.

Remember, there is the idea of the giver and taker in Harley's work and it is NOT reasonable to have either one predominate for an extended period of time.

So, if I understand the whole concept of the giver and the taker, eventually the taker, quite reasonably expects some satisfaction.

I don't think this is totally unreasonable.

Tony