</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by hurting Promise Keeper on the D/D board, the "Define Ready to Date" thread :
<strong>Faithful Wife - For once, someone that feels as I do! In answer to your questions - I don't have the belief that women should be in a position of preaching or teaching authority over men, so I would rule out a potential spouse that would insist on that. I would be very happy if she had a pulpit ministry to other women or children, or could develop some type of ministry exclusive of ministry to men. I would be delighted if we could share a marriage building ministry or something to that effect. In my case, I have the call to plant a church or assume the pastor role in an established, small church. My spouse must be willing to first tend the home fires then work in the church or develop her own ministry as time allows.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I want to be sure I completely understand what you are saying here. Your church's doctrine does not agree with women preaching or teaching to men, because men are the spiritual leaders. You would look for a spouse who's calling is complimentary to your own. You have been called by God to me a pastor in either a small new church that you help start, or a small, established church. You would be a pastor and your wife would be responsible for "home" while you do God's work.

I am not going to argue doctrine here with you, because you believe what you believe and God will reveal to you anything else He wants you to see. But I will mention that I personally believe that many families fall apart and are open to the temptation of evil precisely because the husband is away from home "doing God's work" and the wife is left alone to care for the home. May I suggest that you consider revising your statement to say that you will be the spiritual leader of your own wife and children first, and a pastor and shepherd to others as God called you second?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>If you feel the Lord is leading you into a "frontline" type of ministry I would strongly suggest you pray for the Lord to raise up a man for you that is willing to accept your calling and support you. Communication is the key and all such aspects of ministry should be agreed upon BEFORE marriage, so everyone is on the same page. I applaud your vision and goals but just be sure he has the SAME outlook.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Haha. I'm sorry. I did not make that very clear did I?? I do not feel called to a frontline ministry. In fact, I beleive God will only call a woman to that kind of ministry when there is no man available to call to His purposes (for example, Deborah The Judge in Judges 4:4-5:31). Actually, I was purposely vague. My personaly calling is to minister to abused women (verbally, physically, or sexually abused), to teach abusers about what a victim goes through and how to change, and to teach other professionals such as counselors, therapists, school teachers, and yes even pastors how to best help their abused clients. Sadly, I find that often pastors in particular with tell a woman who has been a SAHM for 12 years with 4 kids to "just separate from your husband" if he is abusive. This mostly just scares her...she has no way to support herself, no way to care for her children, and no support network to help her if she "just leaves." Also, I speak to teenagers, youth groups, high school kids telling them about what abuse is and how to recognize it--and what to do if they realize that THEY are abusive of in an abusive relationship with their boyfriend or girlfriend. Sadly, our children ARE NOT taught about what love is, how to have a proper marriage, what mature marriage means, emotional needs or lovebusters, or what to do if they find themselves in an abusive situation!!

Anyway, I was specifically vague about that on purpose. For decades, when I was a married woman, I stood by my H's right side and supported and encouraged him in his vision and his dream but my own personal vision was not considered or supported in any way. I beleive my calling is enormously important and would look for a spouse who not only wants me to support and encourage him in his ministry, but who sees my vision as important and is willing to give of himself to support ME.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>I also agree with you that your criteria will result in a greatly reduced "man pool" and more power to you! Stick to your standards and God will raise up that Godly man you so desire. In my case, He has already opened a door of relationship to me with a Godly woman and I am so grateful. Some would say that I need to wait for some specified time period to get serious again, but I am about my Father's business and His timing is my timing. I am accountable to my Pastor, a secular counselor, family, and Christian support network and they know that I won't rush blindly into another relationship without the Lord's leading. I was burned big time in my first M and I am resolved to NEVER enter into another M blindly.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well...I will be honest and open with you, hPK. This part of your response disturbed me greatly, and I let it stew and churn and gave this tons of consideration. Am I correct to understand that you are saying you are called into the pastoral ministry and that you think God has condoned you dating another woman before your divorce is final?? That seems like a HUGE, ENORMOUS inconsistency to me, and I am quite literally stunned that not one member of your accountability wise council has spoken up, so I will.

My brother, you seem like an extremely godly man, and so I can not fathom how you think it is God who ordained having emotional feelings for another woman while you are still a married man. The vow that you made on your wedding day was not between you and your wife--it was between you and God. Now, God is a God of miracles and restoration, and if in His wisdom He worked a mighty work in your wife's heart and she came to salvation TODAY, and He convicted her heart so that she stopped the divorce TODAY, you would be having an affair. Pure and simple. Your obligation and vow is to God about your wife, and even after divorces are final, God can still work in their hearts and work His mighty work!

Therefore, my brother, please reconsider your stand. You write that "...it's VERY different to be dating in my 40's! ...it's refreshing to have someone at my side who's interested in me... I love the companionship aspect and the ability to relate to someone who can actually carry on a good conversation. I like being able to open up, be honest, and share myself. I like being a listener as she shares with me. It's like a breath of fresh air!" Does this not sound like a WS to you??

I guess here's the issue. If you are going to be a strong spiritual leader, then you need to accept ALL of the spiritual laws...not just the ones that make you feel good. If you had not presented yourself as a spritual person wanting to lead others, then perhaps I could have thought that you were not yet grown enough to know what you were doing. Frankly, I do think you are mature enough to know what you are doing, and since it feels good to be the object of someone's interest, you justified it.

I'm sorry, my brother. I do not believe it was "God" who lead a woman into your life before your divorce was final. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I know I will probably be very alone in this stance, but I'm calling you out and challenging you to stop doing what you know not to do.


CJ

HurtingPromiseKeeper: Praise God! I know that when we divorce, we think that our chances are slim for finding the right person for us. I think you are wise to take things slowly. If you are obedient to God and his Word, then when He speaks We know his voice. Your have the gift of prophesy and feel that you are best served in this role.
Remember the promises of our Lord, he will make this and All matters to glorify Him and his good works.
Thank you for your faithfulness to spreading the Gospel of Jesus....Peace

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FaithfulWife:
[I guess here's the issue. If you are going to be a strong spiritual leader, then you need to accept ALL of the spiritual laws...not just the ones that make you feel good. If you had not presented yourself as a spritual person wanting to lead others, then perhaps I could have thought that you were not yet grown enough to know what you were doing. Frankly, I do think you are mature enough to know what you are doing, and since it feels good to be the object of someone's interest, you justified it.

I'm sorry, my brother. I do not believe it was "God" who lead a woman into your life before your divorce was final. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I know I will probably be very alone in this stance, but I'm calling you out and challenging you to stop doing what you know not to do.


</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well-said, FaithfulWife...and no, you are not alone.

HPK, I don't know if you post in the prayer thread, but I happened upon this and would have to agree that it is NOT God who'd "bring" you a woman pre-divorce. I'm not even sure He'd bring you one post-divorce. Many people, in their hurt and loneliness, meet someone and sure enough, "God brought her/him." Not necessarily.

God speaks alot of wisdom, and using it, in the Bible, and one thing that we KNOW is wise is WAITING to date after a divorce. Every single "expert" will tell you that you should not get into another dating relationship too quickly after a divorce because you need time to heal and deal with the things that you did to contribute to the problems in the marriage. So, not only is dating pre-divorce against God's will but it is also unwise.

The Bible says in 1 Cor. that we are not to divorce and if we do, we are to "remain single or be reconciled." Now, there's lots of interpretations of that, I suppose, but to me, it's pretty clear.

As long as you are a legally married man, any romantic relationships are affairs, in both eyes of the state and eyes of God.

God didn't open that "door," Brother. There's no way. He would not contradict his own Word. It's not God leading you in that relationship... it's your feelings and probably your loneliness, but not God. NOT God.

Hi, all! I just discovered this post to me today. I haven't been avoiding you. I appreciated everyone's comments of support and concern.

Faithful and LMX - Thank you so much for your insights and prayers. I'll respond to some of your points here and other points I will address to you personally if you want to give me your e-mails.

First of all, I consider my next spouse of critical importance to me, and I can assure you that I will do everything within my power to not neglect her in any way. I DON'T plan on being "away" for ministry, unless you count the times I'll be at the church as "away". It will be no different in many ways from my current 6:30 - 3:30 secular job as far as scheduling. I have no plans for a transient type of ministry such as missions or evangelistic leanings. I'm basically a homebody with a shepherd's heart. I have been ask to speak out of town on occasion but my W and kids usually were able to accompany me, and I see no reason to change that. Please rest assured that I will not "abandon" my W to a world of drudgery. I promise you I am balanced with a proper Biblical perspective as to how my priorities lie, also. I fully understand that Jesus is first, wife second, children third, church fourth, etc. I don't know exactly how my beagle fits into the picture but he'll be provided for!

As far as my personal views on women in the ministry, I feel the Bible gives plenty of opportunity for women to minister. However, if she is married I feel her first ministry area is to her husband, children, and home. If these things are taken care of first I see no reason why she can't find some degree of fulfillment outside of the home. I see no Biblical admonition for women to have spiritual authority over men, in fact the Pauline Epistles state quite the opposite. I do agree, such as the case with Debra, Israel's first woman judge, that if a man isn't capable of fulfilling his God-ordained leadership role there is certainly a woman willing to take his place! I was told by a dear sister in the Lord that if a man refuses to heed the call you can be sure there will be a woman willing and able to do it. God promised in the Book of Joel, and it was fulfilled in the Book of Acts, that He would pour His spirit (Holy Spirit) out upon all flesh. His spokesmen, however, did put limits upon the administration of those spiritual callings and gifts.

As to your last legitimate concerns about my dating habits and future spouse, I will not address that issue on a secular forum. Please feel free to send me your e-mail addresses if you would like a personal contact.

I value you ladies very much and Jesus is doing a great work through you. You are admirable and Jesus has a special place in His heart for you!

I will share with you, as fellow Christians, that I am withdrawing from MB today and this will be my last reply to anyone on MB. I feel a clear calling to move on into other ventures. I love you all with the love of the Lord! I leave you with Hebrews 13:20-21, "May the God of peace, who through the blood of the eternal covenant brought back from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great Shepherd of the sheep, equip you for doing His will, and may He work in us what is pleasing to Him, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen".

If any of you ever get to the Kansas City area I hope you will contact me. Your fellowship would be sweet!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by LoveMyEx:
<strong> God didn't open that "door," Brother. There's no way. He would not contradict his own Word. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Amen.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's not God leading you in that relationship... it's your feelings and probably your loneliness, but not God. NOT God.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Actually, I think it quite possible that this is a case of spiritual warfare; a demon deliberately targeting you & misleading you bcs you are a Christian leader.

Good luck in your plans...and be careful.

<small>[ May 04, 2004, 05:19 PM: Message edited by: LoveMyEx ]</small>

C--

I'm glad to see that you took my calling out in the spirit in which it was intended...and that is I called you out because I care, not because I want to hurt you or create a fight. I fully realize that you can and will do what you choose, but you are sufficiently spiritually mature that I really hope you will live a life of excellence in every way, including your dating habits.

My basic stance has not changed: I do not believe God would bring a particular woman into your life while you are still a married man--even if the marriage is only on paper. I also believe I have been through the ringer as much or more than any other person on this forum, and even with the hurts and horrors I lived through, I hold myself to the same high standard.

Just so you know, C, I am not giving you a "do as I say not as I do" here. I tried for five years to save my marriage after the Big PA. The littler EA's and cybersex afterward were more than enough to satisfy any biblical standard of divorce, and yet I honored my vow until my non-believing spouse chose not o be married. Now, it has been one year since the ink was dry (so to speak) and I have been a free woman for one year--legally and morally free, I believe. Yep, most normal folks might say, "It's about time ya moved on there, little darlin' " (in a western drawl), but I have children to attend to and life and interests and ministries to rebuild. God knows the desires of my heart, but C, the point here is that I am free to do so...you are not.

If you want to write to me with more info on your decisions, please feel free. My email is in my signature line, but just in case you are technology-impaired, it is cindy_cj_wolfe@hotmail.com or faithfulwifecj@yahoo.com. Also, just so you know, I am not interested in a bible-thumping, judgemental debate here, so please don't go that route. I could quote verses and you can probably quote just as many verses to justify your position. I guess, as you "little, big sis" I'm asking you to please wait until you are legitimately free to date on all levels: spiritually, legally, emotionally. I know you're anxious to feel loved again, but trust me when I say that the ability to look yourself in the eye in the mirror in the morning and KNOW that you not only abided by earthly laws but also godly laws, is worth MORE than any butterfly-in-the-stomach feeling you might get.

Shalom!


CJ