Things went bad last night.

I asked H if he is still seeing someone, and it went down hill from there.

I need prayer.

I don't know what will happen now, but I have gone dark to keep myself from saying anything to make it worse, and to turn him totally over to God.

I am not doing very well right now.

I posted on GQ2 if you want to know what happened.

Father, please take him over. Please be with me and speak to me today about what to do now.

Shul

Shul,

I don't have time to respond now and I don't have access to a computer over the weekend, but please know that you're in my prayers & thoughts. I just wanted to tell you that I read on the GQ board the sitch & I know how devastated you must feel right now.

My suggestion - Don't do anything just yet!!!! Let me think of how to properly respond to you & try to relax this weekend. Do something relaxful. Go into your prayer closet all weekend if you have to. Be still. Play with your daughter. Watch a favorite movie. Get yourself busy!!!

I understand what it's like to be lied to continually & think things are progressing the way you want them to & then WHAMMO. Hugs to you, Shul!!!

I went to see where he lives and she was there with her kids, staying for the weekend.

We went to a park and talked for an hour.

She told me all about her life, how hard it was.

She said she feels bad about our daughter nad that she encouraged my h to visit her .She said I could bring her there to her house so he can see her.
She has no idea how much it would hurt my D if she saw him with her little girls and knew this was shy he dones' t come aorund.

She thinks she is being magnanimous, generous. Even said she undestood my position, but that he will do what he wants.

She said if I need to be with him sometime, like this weekend, no problem, she will let him come . She doens't mind if he sleeps with me, a I guess she figures its out of pity. Maybe it is.

Said she told H that he should just explain to her that he has a new family.

I was almost sick.

No wonder he has been so secretive .

He didn't want to hurt me or my D feelings, or have to deal with causing pain.

But I will not tell her. I couldn't bear to see her hurt anymore.

We just won't see him anymore I guess.

Its the price he has to pay for what he has done.

I have never felt so alone in my life as I do right now.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{Shul}}}}}}}}}}}}}

I don't want to hurt you any more than you already are, hon. You know that, right?
But there are some things i NEED to get off my chest about this conversation w/this woman.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She told me all about her life, how hard it was.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Blah, blah, blah..........
Sorry, but I'm not buying this............
SO WHAT if her "life is hard.........."
How is her HARD LIFE yours or your H's problem????

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She said she feels bad about our daughter nad that she encouraged my h to visit her.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OK, this makes my blood boil.............
How "F***ing" MAGNANIMOUS is this?!?!?!
I guess this just hit a nerve, b/c my H told me that OW told HIM he could "go to her (me), and take care of her (me) if you need to........" when I had broken my arm.
WTF?!?!?!?!
WHAT GIVES HER THE RIGHT TO "DECIDE" IF HE CAN COME TAKE CARE OF ME.......... and it would be OK with HER?!?!?!?
WHO THE F**K cares what she thinks about this?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She said if I need to be with him sometime, she will let him come.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Here it is again.........I HATE to hear comments like this from an OW. "She will LET him"??????????? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> She doens't mind if he sleeps with me, a I guess she figures its out of pity.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">GGGGGGRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I was almost sick.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I would be, too! In fact, I pretty much WAS, when I read this stuff...........

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He didn't want to hurt me or my D feelings, or have to deal with causing pain.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Avoid, avoid, avoid dealing w/the PAIN he is causing........... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
Poor baby.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We just won't see him anymore I guess.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This would be your best course of action. Shul, hun, you need to protect your feelings, your love now. You NEED to back waaaay off, and just let him go..................TO GOD!!!
God is NOT pleased w/his actions/behavior. But you are still intervening.

In fact, in a convo w/my H just today, I was asking him WHY he was always so UNhappy, angry whenever we talked. I said, "After all, you seemed to be living your "dream" - WHY were you always so angry at everything whenever we would talk???
His answer? YOU WERE PRAYING FOR ME, WEREN'T YOU?
There it is!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have never felt so alone in my life as I do right now. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{SHUL}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Here's another big HUG for ya! Please just let Jesus hug you for awhile. HE LOVES YOU beyond your comprehension, and HE ALWAYS WILL!

God Bless,

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{SHUL}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

My heart goes out to you. I can imagine how devastating this must have been for you. Unfortunately, this is why I had suggested to stay away the weekend. I was afraid something like this would happen. I can remember doing the same things that you are doing. If only I talk to him, he'd understand my POV.... If I could talk to her, maybe she'd understand my position & leave him alone....

None of it worked. It only caused more heartache for me. Thankfully, God arranged it so me & the OW never met. We never spoke to each other except for the first day when I called her home # to confirm an A. I only heard her voice briefly. I did some snooping however. I found out, through calling #'s from his cell phone bill, where she worked and I did a phone # search to find her home address. It was about 3 miles from where I work. I had been tempted so many times to go over there & confront her, or catch his truck over in her driveway & catch them together. But something held me back. I now know that was God. He knew if I confronted her, things would go badly. I would hear things I didn't want to hear. After all, I was getting things said to me by my H that I didn't want to hear without inviting it, so why should I invite that into my already topsy-turvy world?

I kept reading on Restore Ministries website not to actively pursue my H. Not to bring up our R. I didn't quite understand this. That's all I wanted to talk about. All I wanted to do was catch a glimpse of him getting into his car, or going into his room, driving by his room, sitting there in my car waiting for him to come out of those doors. Yep, you guessed it. I became a stalker!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> What was wrong with me?? Everyone can explain it away by saying, You were MARRIED to the man! You had every right to know what was going on! But when I took a good, hard look at myself, I realized that I wouldn't want to be pursued by a stalker either. As a matter of fact, I would be scared to death!!!! I'm sure, if he ever would have caught me, he would have thought to himself, How pitiful. It would have just confirmed why he left in the first place. That I was controlling. That I was too clingy to him & didn't have any independence without him. All that. So I needed to pray for the strength to go on without him. I needed to pray for the ability to restrain from mentioning our M. NOw if he brought it up, of course I would discuss it. And then I prayed for the ability to speak when appropriate & when to hold back from speech.

It took a while to get into those new habits & now that I have them, I am so thankful to God for teaching them to me! Now that my H has returned, he has told me on more than one occasion that I am now the W he has always wanted & that if things keep going this way, we will be married for eternity. PTL!!!!

I recommend you print out the checklist on Restore Ministries website & check yourself to see if you've been following their guidelines. Some things you may not agree with, same as me, but if you stop & think about it, & try to line it up with scripture, it usually matches dead on. My thoughts are with you today, Shul. May God's blessings pour upon you & I thank God this day that your M will be taking a turn toward the road of reconciliation.

With Christ's love,
Yvette

Thank you both.

I am so tired of trying to sort this out, and now I know that it is beyond me.

God will have to deal with it, with him.

I have gone dark, adn I am in prayer.

Shul,

I just read the posts over on GQ2. Wow. My thoughts and prayers are with you.

It sounds to me like your husband has not yet admitted that his life is out of control to the sex and/or love addiction he appears to be suffering from. I know that admitting I had a problem was extremely difficult for me. In many ways it still is.

I pray that things will improve, even if God's plan takes you temporarily on separate paths.

God Bless,
Richard

Richard,

Thankyou for your prayers.

It is a tough one, isn't it?

But not hard for God.

I was reminded this morning that my husband was baptised just before we got married. He belongs to God, and God will deliver him and he is going to be a new person.

I just have to keep my hands off the wheel right now!

Shul

Guys,

I think he has been calling here while I was out, and I am still too upset in my mind to talk to him .

I don't even want to answer the phone, but its my work so I have to.

I thought of asking him if she told him to call me, and if so not to bother. That he doesn't have to anymore. That I will stay out of his business from now on, and that I will let him know if there is anything concerning our daughter that he needs to know about.


I know as I wrote that ,that it is not of God, and that it is bitterness talking.

Pray for me that I will respond to all of this with love instead.

Shul

I thought of asking him if she told him to call me, and if so not to bother. That he doesn't have to anymore. That I will stay out of his business from now on, and that I will let him know if there is anything concerning our daughter that he needs to know about.

I know you know this would sound spiteful to him & considered a LB. Have you tried to figure out what your H's love language is? I had read this book called, The Five Love Languages and it says that we each have our own love language. For example, mine is Physical Touch. I feel my H's love when he touches me via hugs, kisses, sex, holding hands, etc. He feels my love with Words of Affection. Saying kind words to him helps him respond to me with love. For example, when I would write him little love notes or buy him something or give him a kiss, he actually did not feel that love until I told him I love you or You're so sweet, or I admire you so much....things like that. When someone is doing something to show they love someone else, it really doesn't take affect into their brain if you're not speaking their language. Most people show someone love through their own love language. In my case, since I'm Touch, giving him a kiss or a hug or through sexual contact WAS how I would show him how I loved him. But he didn't feel this. Because at the same time, I was not saying kind things to him to back it up. When I would give him a kiss & then later have a fight & call him a name, he didn't remember the kiss at all. He would remember the name I called him. If he would say I love you to me (through his own love language) but then not touch me, I didn't feel loved. See the pattern?

Now that we know each other's love language, we speak to each other properly & has increased the time that my H's love returned for me.

Let me list the love languages for you & see if you can pick out which ones are yours & which are his. I know he's not home right now, but this could be very helpful for you in the future.
1) Words of Affection - Kind words, I love you, I admire you, I respect you, That was kind of you to do that, etc.
2) Physical Touch - Kissing, holding hands, arm in arm, touch on the shoulder, sex, etc.
3) Acts of Service - Doing things for them, cleaning, laundry, getting them a sandwich, etc.
4) Receiving Gifts - Writing them a note, getting them flowers, some kind of gift no matter how small (I know this seems materialistic, but it's really not)
5) Quality Time - Spending time with them, NO NOT TV WATCHING!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Doing things together alone.

You had also mentioned that you are going dark for a while. If this is what you need to do to lessen the pain, then do it. I would, like the others said on GQ, write him a letter stating that although you love him, you need some time to yourself, without contact with him, until you can heal from this. You want to be his friend, you want to be there for him, but right now you need time to heal your emotional wounds. I suspect your H, first & foremost, wants to be friends with you. Understandable. And H & W should be friends firstmost; however, friends do not continue to lie to you or take advantage of you. He needs to understand this. I suspect that he is very confused right now. I believe stepping back from the situation is the best thing and yet you can continue to pray for him & love him from afar right now. Being totally apart from him with only her as his contact, will be able to help him see what it is he is giving up. Remember, this is HIS choice. You cannot force his hand here. Telling him, "Either you give her up or I don't want you around" is an ultimatum and will likely not give you the result you want.

I have to go right now, but I just wanted to check with you & see how you were doing today. My prayers are with you.

Lots of luv,
Y

Standing , if you have a minute, some things have happened last night, and he is coming here tonight.

I posted the convo on GQ, under 'gone dark plan G'.


I wasn't going dark so much for me but more to let him know that he went too far in bringing her kids there. and because he knew that I talked to her, and would be worried about how I would react.

He was worried all right.

Especially when I didn't return his calls.

I think I have to somehow back off, let him know that he is free not to come here to see me.

He wanted his freedom so badly, now he has it. He has his van , a job, everything- no responsbilities- so why is he so unhappy??

He should be happy now that he has what he wants, but of course he isnt', and he never will be until he gets right with God and does right by us.

He hates that he feels guilty. But I am not putting any guilt on him...I haven't asked him for anything.

God is dealing with him, I can see it in what he said last night.

He is very depressed about the way he treated me in the past, and trying to cop out by saying we are better off without him.

Mabye I should agree with him.

Say, yes I guess you are right. I guess there is no hope, and we may as well not bother anymore.

Good job, Shul. Some things I want to comment on:

I looked my best,
What this insignificantly shows is that you're not all torn up & miserable on the outside. I think this is pretty important. Try to show confidence & take care of yoursef. When you look shambled, it makes you look desperate & that usually scares H's away.

I apologised for my angry outburst last night, and he said "I am sorry for mine too".

Great! Own up to YOUR mistakes. He needs to own up to his own. Like I've always said, the only person's choices you can control are your own. If he doesn't choose to correct his mistakes or apologize for them, there is nothing you can do about it.

I didn't kiss him hello or goodbye as I normally would
Unpredictable behavior. He'll notice, believe me.

Oh, I asked him to droop something off near where he lives when he gets back, and he said something about this was one way of me makig sure he wasn't going to visit ow in the other city.
This could very well be the case. You could be doing it unintentionally as a way of checking up on him. God has a purpose for the times that you haven't heard from him or don't know what's going on with him. He is probably trying to spare you from some kind of pain. It took me a very long time to realize this in my own situation.

Anyway, he didn't know it before, but now he does- that I knew what he was doing and I chose to show him love anyway
He will be grateful to you eventually. The question is, do you have the patience & strength to wait? My H said to me that he was doing things deliberately to push me away from him so that way he wouldn't feel guilty. After all, I was just a b**** & deserved everything I got. When I continued to love him anyway, he continually asked himself (unbeknownst to me) why? Why would I continue to love him when he didn't deserve it? He finally started to realize that maybe he had made a mistake by leaving.

Maybe he will stop seeing me as this clingy person who he has to be so careful around.
My H hated this about me. The fact that I was clingy. He felt like he couldn't do anything without me always up his butt. He made it clear to me upon his return that he wants to keep his independence to a certain extent. He knows there's consideration me, for example, letting me know when he'll be back or where he's going (unless it's a surprise of course!) so that way I don't worry. But one thing I was famous for was telling him what he was ALLOWED to do or NOT ALLOWED to do & that made him very angry. I WAS treating him like I was his mother & as a W, that was not my role! I can express my concerns but he is my H, not my child, and I have to treat him as such. Things have worked out much better now & I've found that the information I seek just comes pouring out from him now that I treat him like an equal. He also treats me as one instead of trying to hide everything so he won't "get in trouble" Make sense?

Therefore, as God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you.
and
This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for] our sins. Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.
These verses also rang true for me & I was determined to see it through to the victory! Congrats for handling the situation so well. The most important thing is that you prayed FIRST for guidance & God helped you all the way through the visit. I will pray for you to have patience & strength. Blessings to you!

Lots of luv!!
Y

Standing,

Thankyou.

Something has to happen to break this soon. I don't know how much more of this I can take.

I feel very little compassion for him right now.

I gave him a book last night called 'If only he knew" by Gary Smalley.

I thought if he read it he would realise that he is not unique- that yes, he made mistakes and treated me badly over the years but he can forgive himself and do better if he wants to .

He is so stuck in the past, so full of guilt.

In his eyes I was a clingy wife, but actually I wasn't. It is just that he didn't want to be accountable to anyone at all, not even out of consideration. He simply didn't want be married.

He wanted total freedom.

I guess now he has it.

You said - He hates that he feels guilty. But I am not putting any guilt on him ...I haven't asked him for anything.

But then you said - I gave him a book last night called 'If only he knew" by Gary Smalley. and this - I thought if he read it he would realise that he is not unique- that yes, he made mistakes and treated me badly over the years but he can forgive himself and do better if he wants to .

Are you really not making him feel guilty? This is not your job to point out his flaws & that he needs to forgive himself. God is the one who needs to convict him of his sins & if you see that happening, wonderful! But pointing it out to him will only make things worse. I can almost guarantee it! This makes you sound self-righteous. Your H may just pull further away.

wasn't going dark so much for me but more to let him know that he went too far in bringing her kids there. and because he knew that I talked to her, and would be worried about how I would react.

You did it for the wrong reasons. Not speaking to him because of something he did. You need to go dark for YOU and YOU only in order to start healing. How can God work on you when you're too busy trying to make sure your H gets right with God? The best way, and I repeat, the best way to get your H right with God is to pray for him. Giving him spiritual books & telling him that he needs to get right with God & that he needs to forgive himself will only push him farther away. Do you hear this Shul???

I'm so sorry if I sound harsh, but no one, and I repeat no one, likes to be have someone else's faith pushed onto them. They need to come into their own faith their own way at their own time. What makes you think that God can't do the job of getting him to come back to Him that you need to help it along? You continue to interfere in what God's doing & this will only cause you more heartache.

In his eyes I was a clingy wife, but actually I wasn't. It is just that he didn't want to be accountable to anyone at all, not even out of consideration. He simply didn't want be married.

In his eyes is all that matters. It doesn't matter what you thought. He's the one that left for his own reasons. He's the one that decided to have an A for his own reasons. He has to realize, ON HIS OWN, that he made a mistake. That he is sinning against God. You have done your part. He knows where you stand. He knows you love him. But how can he know that his actions have consequences if you don't allow him to have any?

You say yourself that you can see God convicting him. You can see the way God is working. Then stand back for a moment & revel in His glory! The START of my H wanting to come back home was when I told him that I couldn't be friends with him THE WAY HE WANTED ME TO and be okay. I needed to step back for a moment & collect myself so I could stop all the crying & stop missing him so much that I couldn't get out of bed. God was trying to heal me so I could face the other many obstacles I needed to face.

Shul, if this is a major lesson for your H to learn, then you need to let him learn it. He does not want to be held accountable for anything. He feels stuck being married. My H felt the same way. He felt we got married too young...blah, blah, blah. Fine. He was "on his own". He was "living his life the way HE wanted to". Where did it get him? Drunk, stoned & lonely. He didn't have the comfort of me being there for him when everything got too rough. He didn't have the kids constantly there at his side saying, Dad, Dad. He missed that. What did he miss about me? He said he didn't love me. Fine. When I told him I couldn't be friends RIGHT NOW, what did he miss? He missed the FRIENDSHIP we had. The FRIENDSHIP we were starting to build. He was used to me being there to bail him out or help him whenever I could. I am that type of person. Help whoever I can when I can.

But when his car broke down & I had the money to lend him to fix it, I didn't. When he was feeling lonely at night & missing his kids, he couldn't just walk upstairs & watch them sleeping. He had to look at their pictures on the wall. So many nights that I was unaware of that he laid in bed & cried & cried for the things he had done. He realized that I wasn't going to be there by his side anymore as he was always used to, to support him. And that's when he started to want it. He started to want it so badly that HE would do anythign HE could, any excuse HE could come up with to be around US.

In the meantime, God was working on ME and healing me. So that way if my H decided that he was never coming home, I WOULD BE OKAY. He was making ME more independent so when my H eventually DID return, I wouldn't be so clingy. He gave me a confidence within myself that I would be able to look in the mirror & not see some ugly person staring back at me. I would see a beautiful person whom God created & I started to like what I saw. That I was deserving of His love. He was PREPARING me so when we did reconcile, things would go the way God wanted them to, not the way WE wanted them to.

I gotta get back to work. Talk to you soon. If you'd rather talk by phone, which is probably easier for me, send me your phone # in an e-mail. My e-mail address is cherfan31@comcast.net & I'll send you mine. That's totally up to you though.

Lots of luv,
Y

Standing,

Yes, You hit the nail on the head . A few nails!

I gave him the book because he kept going on about all the mistakes of the past and I thought it might help him see that he doesn't have a monopoly on screwing up. But he might take it the wrong way, as more condemnation.

I will pray about that. That if he reads it he won't take it the wrong way.

It was one of those impulsive things. I just tossed it to him as he was leaving.

I hear you about telling him those things. From now on I just listen. No comment. He has to get there on his own.

Its funny, but I am so okay in every other area of my life. I have kept on doing my thing all this time, its been years since I have acted in any clingy way . But he hasn't noticed!

I might not call him for months, and he will say something like , "you are always calling me every 5 minutes."

In two months we saw him once for 5 minutes, and when I finally did call and go see him, he acted like I just saw him the week before. He had no idea that it had been that long.

He is very sentimental and remembers things from years ago. But he has missed soooo much in our lives. He doesn't know half the stuff that has gone on.

I think he is starting to realise that he has missed alot.


He has to become more miserable in his present circumstances than he was with us I guess.

I am leaving it with God. I can't do anything about most of this anyway, and when I try I get in Gods way.

He 'knows his ways and how to heal him'. (I guess I have prayed that verse for so many years I have lost count. But its true, and I need to start acting like its true!)

Thank you Standing. Thank you for your insight.

Right now I feel serene.

I know all will be well.