W and I had a wonderful and happy(or so I thought) T-giving. I prepared the meal as I have for the last 10 years and we ate and talked and laughed a lot. She has been trying to come down with something for more than a week now and it hit her this morning(very flu-like with body-wide aches and pains as well as a dry cough, etc.).<P>We brainstormed some herbal remedies(she is into that). I surfed the web and printed out 15 pages of stuff and she decided she wanted some Hyssap. So I left for about a half an hour to get the herb and plenty of orange juice. Guess what happened while I was gone? She called OM!! This is why she doesn't want to tell me what's going on. He told her he loved her very much and he was glad she called and she said that she had wanted to talk to him. She kept telling him she didn't have long(and he knew why). No overt affectionate statements or I love you's from her, but I think that is because it's understood.<P>I'm wondering, should I have "Welcome" tattooed on my back or just my last name. If I'm going to be a doormat, I might as well do it right!!!<P>This is minor compared to what you guys have gone thru and it just kills me. Where do you find the strength? Bottles, pills or injectables???<P>This is great as I have to be gone all next week on a business trip. On one hand, I wish she would move out while I am gone. She has destroyed my faith that she could keep the friendship under control. Now she won't be out before the first of the year if/when she does move and I have to live with this until then.<P>Suspended animation, that's the ticket....<P>Oh, yeah, I forgot, on Friday morning, we were snuggling and kissing and she looked at me very lovingly and told me enthusiastically, "I love you". More often than not, this is a response to when I say it, but she was first that day...Guess it really meant a lot...<p>[This message has been edited by Heartpain (edited November 27, 1999).]

H-P,<BR>I know how you feel. I just got my phone bill and saw where my stbx called om(long distance no less) on my phone while we were supposedly working on reconciling.<P>At least your w says she loves you. I haven't heard those words since May.<P>I don't know what to tell you other than just hang in there!<P>How did you find out she called and what she said ?

RWD -- <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>How did you find out she called and what she said<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Let's not go into details and just say that snooperhubby would approve. BTW, I'm not proud of this, actually, downright ashamed. But, I would really have been played for a complete fool if I hadn't done it. The lack of trust was justified.<P>You are right, I have heard "I love you" with some frequency, but it doesn't mean anything in the long term. She has decided(as far as I can tell by her actions) to move out, try to hang onto the marriage and still date.<P>Nope, not gonna go there, not gonna happen.<p>[This message has been edited by Heartpain (edited November 27, 1999).]

Hey Heartpain,<P>Sorry to hear what you are going through. I was just getting ready to start a thread for you. Saw the question on Izzy's thread. This is how I did it and is not to be interpreted as a suggestion to you. The snuggling sounds good. Maybe just a small setback with the phone call.<P>So, How did I get to this point? First I got my FMD to Rx Prozac and experienced severe abdominal distress. Changed Rx to Wellbutrin. This has helped immeasurably. Took the edge off. I was getting nasty. Nasty didn't help trying to utilize Plan A.<P>Second I found the website "Divorceasfriends", sorry I don't know how to do that hyperlink thing jobby hookeymado. The title is very misleading as it actually tells you how to save a marriage. One of the most important things I found there was to accept the fact that she is gone and will not come back. Once I truly mentally accepted this fact the fear I experienced was gone and I could see more clearly my situation and what I needed to do. It's like your'e playing mind games with yourself. But it worked for me.<P>SUGGESTION on the meds. I started feeling really good and figured I didn't need to spend the $50 some odd buck on drugs. Bad move I had a very bad Val week a few days after I stopped. I am back on and right as rain.<P>As far as self esteem goes I talk to myself [gee, that's a shock huh?] and give myself pep talks. I'm not a bad guy, just WAS a bad H, I didn't know how then. This site has prepared me to be a very loving and attenative H. It's just too bad I didn't find this sooner to save the marriage. Well maybe it's not too late yet.<P>Third, I am very self sufficient. Yes I do miss her dearly. But, I do know how to use the washer, dryer, and stove. I do have problems fixing the time on the microwave but that's ok. I don't NEED her to do anything for me. I would love for her to come out of fantasyland and return to build a foundation for a marriage. If it does not happen, chances are 9 out of 10 that I will still wake up in the morning.<P>Bottom line is that I have accepted what is happening in my life and knowing I have some control but not exclusive.<P>Hang in there Buddy! Your W is with you.<BR> <P>------------------<BR>Wishing us all the Best.<P>Medic<P><BR>

HP,<P>I used the same method to find out about Val's affair I don't feel guilty in the least bit. Someone was lying to me about her involvement with Brian. She did not ask me once if I was ****** the landline. <P>------------------<BR>Wishing us all the Best.<P>Medic<P><BR>

Medic --<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Your W is with you<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Yeah, that's true, but she is getting anxious(she mentioned this Thursday night) to get the appraisal done so I can re-finance and give her the money she feels she needs to get her own place. She keeps reminding me from time to time that she is leaving.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I am very self sufficient<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I am also, I do almost everything around the house and have for years. She comes home from work takes the glass of wine I have poured for her and sits down to do crossword puzzles until I have dinner ready. I do almost all of the house cleaning, most of the laundry, grocery shopping, etc. She does appreciate this, but not enough to make it a factor to stay.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Maybe just a small setback with the phone call<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Wish it were, but it's part of the pattern and this is why she calls my questions about current status "prying". At least for now, she wants her cake and wants to eat it too.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I don't NEED her to do anything for me<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>This is true for me, except I do have some kind of innate need for affection, closeness and sharing. I need to get this from someone, sex not a requirement.<P>Thanks for the suggestions on the meds. I won't be able to see a Dr until after 6 Dec, so I started on St John's Wort until then. Hope it kicks in at some level in the next week.<P>I was not the best H, but she was not the best W, except she doesn't see it that way. My feelings and observations are irrelevant here(at least to her and her therapist). I've acknowledged the things I've done wrong and started trying to right them with no small measure of success. I will be a <B>great</B> husband for someone. As will you, izzy, others of us here, and let's not forget that Greek <B>god</B> of men here, Chris(just kidding, Chris...I do admire you greatly)....<BR>

Medic -- Was posting a great epic when you replied again...<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I don't feel guilty in the least bit<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I do feel very guilty, but also justified at the same time if that's possible(or sane). W has called the phoneco to see if they could tell her if it was t****d. They told her to call the police...Guess she didn't want them involved, besides it's my house, too....

Medic, H-P,<BR>I was considering the same thing when stbx watched the kids at MY HOME/our house.<P>H-P,<BR>I have to agree with Medic's steps. You need to see a goal whcih in my case is the divorce. I know what I have to do and am doing it. <P>With the recovery it was very hard, because deep down I knew my w wasn't interested and that's why I never asked her to move back in. It also caused me to hold back somewhat on showing her affection as I didn't want to be rejected. Could I have saved my marriage if I had gone all out, nno holds barred? No one knows for sure, but I doubt it.<P>I guess maybe I am lucky, my w never built up those false hopes in me by telling me she loves me.<P><BR>By the way, my stbx told my son's friends mother that she wanted an arrangement like she has. She lives in the house and the husband , an ER doc, lives in the basement and all he does is sleep and work and has very little to do with the family. That was the other reason I wouldn't let her back till she showed me something, which she couldn't.<P>Maybe it is time for a heart to heart with her. Does she want to stay or is she just playing till after the holidays?<P>I am so sorry to hear this.

RWD -- We have had these little heart-to-heart chats and she tells me she's pretty sure she wants to move, getting closer to wanting the divorce final and then tells everyone else that it's all definite. Kinda makes it a sure thing as she wouldn't want to swallow her pride in front of OM, Mom and Sis and decide to stay. I don't know why she would want to wait until after the holidays...isn't her style, besides our wedding anniversary is 6 days after New Year's day...<P>Sheba tends to beat me up for wanting to know all of this stuff and, you know, in the perfect world, she's <B>so</B> right!!! But it can't be a perfect world as I am in it and I am not perfect or anywhere close. I'm deeply in love with someone who doesn't see that it's worth it. Of course most of the rest of you are in the same boat....<P>If I had had Sheba's advice to follow from the very beginning, this might not have happened the way it has. But, those "what ifs" are more lethal than cobra venom and as useful as t*ts on a boar(as my grandfather used to say).

Heartpain,<P>When I say that W is still there [physically but mentally may not be at all times] you still have the opportunity to make large deposits into her love bank. I would suggest calling a rich relative and ask to borrow some. You still have the chance increase your balance! No LBs!<P>With regards to the self sufficient/need them to do anything gig. We don't need them, but would certainly welcome the chance to show off the "new and improved versions" of us.<P>And who of us doesn't need to be loved and cared for by another? Well, except for that damned puppy.<P>Take care Buddy. God Bless.<BR> <BR> <P>------------------<BR>Wishing us all the Best.<P>Medic<P><BR>