I am still crying so hard I can't see, I can't think, I can't function. <P>H got done working as 12:30 today. He didn't come home. I found out later this afternoon he was drinking with his old boss, the one who persuaded him to start drinking again 9 years ago. I had to pick up my daughter from the airport so I was gone all afternoon. I was on my way home about 7 PM. Called home, son said H wasn't there, hadn't heard from him. So, I knew something was up. Drove by the bar he used to hang out at, and sure enough there he was. I sat in the parking lot for a few minutes, then got brave and went inside. He and his buddy were standing at the bar with a bar s**t in between them. I walked up to him, he turned around, and I cried. Through my tears I asked him how he could break his promise to me so easily, said "how could you" a couple of times, and walked out. By this time I was sobbing so hard I couldn't see. Sat in my car trying to get ahold of myself, and he and his buddy came out. The buddy apologized over and over (they were both very drunk) for taking H to the bar. I replied that it wasn't his fault, H was the one who broke my heart, again. H just sat there, saying "give me a ride to my truck" and "I didn't do anything wrong". I LB all over the place, sorry. Told him he had to move out, I couldn't take it anymore. I sobbed and cried, his buddy started to cry, but H sat there and stared out the window of the car. I asked him what I had done wrong to cause him to want to crush my heart and soul to pieces. He said "nothing". The only other thing he said was "I'm sorry, I just wanted to have a few beers". I told him that I cannot take any more heartache, and to get out of my car. He refused. His buddy talked me into taking him to his truck. I dropped H off and came home, and haven't stopped crying yet. He is killing me inside. I loved him with all my heart, but yet he is so coldhearted he cannot see how much pain his drinking and lying hurts me. He doesn't care. <P>H came home a little bit after I got here. He sat in the chair with his head hanging down, then went outside and started throwing up. He is now passed out in his chair.<P>Please pray with me for the Lord to ease my pain. If it is His will for H to leave, let him leave. I pray that God's will is done in H's life, and the Lord to please carry me. AMEN.

AW,<BR>I just stopped in to take a peek. I was shocked. Oh, how painful and how brave, though I'm not sure you feel that way. I am praying for you.<BR>Lord, I lift AW up into your arms. Hold her close and comfort her through her tears. Lord, let Your will be done with her husband. Lord, take her husband and show him your face and your Spirit. Touch her husband in any way you need to. Lord mostly give your support to Aw and her children. She loves you. She wants to do Your will. Increase her faith and help her unvelief. Protect her mind from the enemy. Wrap her in Your hedge of thorns driving the evil one out.In Your most Holy name. Amen

Father in heaven, you know the pain MTAW is feeling tonight, the rejection, the isolation of the one she loves besides you. Father, use this incidence for her husband to realize how the disease has a hold of him, bring him to his knees and let this be the time he gets help. Strengthen your daughter and give her Your wisdom to set the limits and boundaries to reduce further hurt and to protect the love she has for him. give her the comfort that only can come from you, the peace and the ability to rest in you tonight. gird her with your strength so that the choices she makes will be done with the confidence that comes from you alone. We know that all things work out to the good for those that love you. Turn this to your good Father. IJN<P>MTAW, I don't know if this is the time to finally have some kind of intervention so that your husband will get treatment for the alcoholism or not. He knows how he has hurt you... pray lots so that you don't enable him. Love him enough to be tough if necessary. Hugging you from here!

Yes AW it hurts, but it may not mean its over yet.... God may have to bring your H to the bottom of himself, and whatever that may be God knows.... It may be time for tough love... You may have come to the point for some self-preservation... Or Plan B as Harley would say...<P>You have known that your H has been out drinking quite often lately, the difference this time is that you went and caught him.. It doesn't make it worse than normal, just more real in your minds eye...<P>Dearest Lord Jesus pick up my sister into your arms and hold her close......Let your Holy Spirit pour over her with your healing and your love in such a miraclulous way, that her mind and emotions can calm and that she truely feels the peace that passes all understanding... Let her understand that YOU ARE ABLE TO DO <B>ALL</B> things exceedingly abundantly beyond all we could hope for or imagine.... Give her a clarity of mind and the wisdom to know and do your will... Help her dearest Jesus in this deep space she is in... illuminate this place with your light so that she can see its not the end, but a new beginning.... Lord at this moment we ask that her husband comes to the end of himself, that the alcohol that holds him, begins to become repelling, that the friends that would have him stuck in this pattern, would be dispersed and that you Lord would open his mind eyes and ears to the right things that you have for him in your perfect will.... These things I pray in Jesus Name ... AMEN<P>------------------<BR>Jesus is the only answer!<BR>His blessings, Cozy

MTAW,<P>Sweetie I know exactly what you're going thru. Please stay strong and trust in God to help you and your husband thru this.<P>I agree, this may be time for an intervention. If that's not possible, he may need to leave again to realize the consequences of his behavior. <P>Lots of prayers and hugs are coming your way.<P>Love to you,<BR>Mitzi<BR>

Thank you all for your understanding and prayers. After I posted this message, I sat on the couch, thinking. I don't know what to do. I fell asleep for a little while, guess the Lord heard your prayers to calm me and comfort me. <P>I still cannot believe he did this. Before he moved home, one of the promises he made me was that he would never go in a bar again. I didn't ask for much when he came home, only that he 1) end all contact with the OW, 2) never set foot in a bar again, 3) make amends with my daughter, 4) go to church with me. So far he has broken all the promises he made except #1. For all I know he may have broken that one too. <P>How do you trust someone who lies to you, time and time again? What he did tonight completely shredded all the trust I had built up in him. It is gone. I am overwhelmed with heartache, all caused by his selfishness. <P>I guess it all boils down to I trusted a man who cannot be trusted. I believed him when he said he would never do these things to me again. I thought I could live with his lack of affection for me, his lack of remorse for what he's done to me, and his drinking if he kept it cut back. I can't live with this. Maybe I'm making a mountain out of a molehill, but I just feel like if he could break his promise to stay out of the bars, it's just a matter of time until he breaks his promise to be faithful. He has no conscience. <P>I won't let H destroy my faith. God will see me through this, He will take care of me. I won't stop praying, but I may stop loving my H. <P>Dear Father in Heaven, thank you Lord for caring for me, and for the faithful praying wives. Lord, you are so worthy of our praise, I thank you from the bottom of my heart for your unending love for me. Dear Father, I cannot handle this alone. I need You to guide me, to intervene in our lives. Please take control of this situation, Lord. Show me Lord what you want me to do, give me the strength I will need to do Your will in my marriage. Lord, I need You right now, please send the Holy Spirit to me. I thank you Lord for sending these wonderful ladies to pray for me. Thank you Father. IJN I Pray, AMEN

AW,<BR>I know where you are. I have been trying to come to terms with the idea that the ow has been here all week and that they went away for part of the weekend. IO have really had a hard time reconciling his words that he sometimes just doesn't care and then her being here for the past week. He took the youngest and went to see the older daughter when he returned from his short trip. He was here for a few minutes after they returned. We talked about my oldest daughter and then I asked him what was wrong. All he said was the last week had been challenging. I know he means that pertaining to the job, but I wonder if it includes his time with the ow and his conflicting feelings. Considering it was the end of the weekend and he got away, he sure didn't seem too rested.<BR>I have had to reconcile that in some ways my husband will never change. In understanding more about the narcissistic personality, it scares me some. However, I have since come to believe, that if God brings us back together, He will work on this piece as well. There is a part of the prayer in the power of a praying wife (I think in the 1st chapter) where it says "I know in some ways my husband will never change, but I release him to you, Lord, to change him in ways I never expected." <BR>AW, now my point. Trust the Lord, if He keeps the two of you together, He will make changes. I do not believe for myself or for anyone else here that God wants our marriages back the way they were. I believe He allowed our marriages to be smashed in order that He could build them from the ground up in His image for a marriage. Part of our job is to believe He can and He will. I agree with the others above that perhaps this will move your husband in the direction of seeking help. If he is skipping his mandated court counseling appointments there too will be repercussions. But one of the hardest things to do is to let go and let a loved one feel the consequences. That is God's method thought. He lets us feel the consequences. <BR>Aw, stay strong in the Lord. He is with You. Draw closer to Him. Ask Him to bring you closer then you ever thought was possible. He will.<BR>Well, it is 2:45 here. I finished the 1st draft of my paper and am going to sleep for about 4 hours. I'll check in with you tomorrow.

MTAW, I don't know how much you know about alcoholism and the dependency stuff. Any possibility of love busting last night more than likely will not be remembered this morning if he was as drunk as you said he was. Be more concerned about love busting this morning. Whatever the Lord has you do, now is the time to be lovingly firm and honoring. In treatment for codependency times such as this, detachment is one of the ways to cope with the hurts. I know every body tries to attach codependency to every affliction but alcoholism is where it began. It is kind of like taking your feelings and putting them on a shelf for protection and then being able to talk with your husband about limits and consequences for behavior in a loving way, not nasty or love busting, but more out of a "what is" state. Part of the enabling stuff increases fear in that if you kick him out, then he will go drink more, (yes he might) that he might renew relationship with OW (yes he might)that he might get into more trouble (yes he might) but there is also the possiblity that he might hit bottom and decide that he doesn't want to be there any more. <P>The loving changes you have made during this time has shown him how much you love him. He has seen the changes in you. Please don't make excuses for him, such as his emotions came flooding up after he went to therapy and he is scared and he just reacted in the way he used to in order to avoid feeling. The reality is that this is probably true and when we rationalize their behavior, we enable them to continue avoiding what they need to do and to be healthy, we need to experience ALL of our feelings, the good, bad and ugly. <BR>You gave him a list of 4 things that must be met in order for him to come home. You admit that you have already compromised on those so that he felt no consequences for his action. In other words, it was okay for him to break his promises because you must not have really meant that e had to follow those things.... <BR>Part of what is so great about this bible study is that it starts out with us asking the Lord to change us, the taking the log out of our own eye before taking the splinters out of someone else. I know what living and loving an alcoholic is like. Tommy was my heart's desire. I lived for those moments of sobriety and discounted the impact of those moments of nastiness, drunkenness, and disrespect. God has shown me where I had failed my husband, what part was mine and what part was his. I think that was the hardest part for me when he was killed. All the years that he was in a drunken stupor and in auto accidents and he came out of all of them without a scratch... then to be sober and in an auto accident which killed him. Satan is nasty and loves to play with your head... the battle for the mind rages in times like this. <P>While Boundaries for Marriage is not about codependency per se, I think from a christian perspective it has some very valid points for setting limits in order to strengthen marriages and to allow consequences for behavior. I have again been reminded that loving my now husband (with his own set of dysfunctional behaviors)includes setting limits so that we are treated as the child of the King we are. It means respecting ourselves and expecting others to respect us as well. When we allow othes to trash us with their actions, we are giving them permission to do so if we do not set limits. I again had to look at my own behavior. It doesn't excuse my husband's behavior by any means, but I had to look at the one whose behavior I could change...mine. <P>I can imagine you are as scared as can be right now. I know the evil one is grasping at straws to divert our attention from the Lord and what He would have us do.<P>I will pray for you all day for wisdom.<p>[This message has been edited by SueB (edited March 20, 2000).]

Dear AW,<BR>I'm sorry and feel awful to hear what transpired this weekend. I didn't check in all weekend long, and now I wish I had, perhaps some more comforting words and prayers might have helped calm your spirits.<P>Like Mitzi, used2Bcozy, SueB, and HW said, whatever you do, please don't loose faith. You are one of the strongest, most faithful people I know, and even in your lowest moments I know you will come out shinning. Remember you have your children, and if only for them right now stay focused. The Lord will continue guiding you and give you the wisdom you need to carry on!<P>Don't despair, we are thinking of you, and praying endlessly for your peace of mind. Let our Heavenly Father carry the burden of your husband right now. <P>Pray - "Lord, You alone know the depth of the burden AW husband carries. May she understand the specifics, but You have measured the weight of it on his shoulders. AW has not come to minimize what You are doing in his life, for she knows You work great things in the midst of trials. Nor is she trying to protect him from what he must face. She only wants to support him so that he will get through this battle as a winner" <P>"Dear Lord, I pray that he will find his strength in You and as he cries out to You, You will hear him and save him out of all his troubles (Psalm 34:6)"<P>MTAW, you can find this in "Power of a Praying Wife", His Trials. Please continue reading this book over and over, you and our sisters are the ones who recommended it to me, and it is a wonderful book to lift your spirits. <P>I'm holding you tight, and pray for you and your children, that all things work out for the best! <BR>With all my Love,<BR>Pookie

AW,<BR>I am so sorry for your pain. My H went through my lists of "requirements" and broke all of them, some so repeatedly...<P>Other than cling to God and to rebuke those evil spirits that torment your H, I do not know what to tell you.<P>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{AW}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>Father God, you love AW so much. And as an earthly father loves and gives good things to your children I pray that she sees the good things you have for her. God, AW's husband is in slavery, deception, a state of weakness. Lord I pray that your Holy Spirit will be in his face every place he turns that he cannot think of alcohol without knowing that you are far more powerful. I pray that the alcohol continues to make him sick and miserable. I ask that you give AW grace to undergo the pain of seeing her H fall on his face before you. In the blessed name of Jesus, I pray these things.<P><P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"Let love be genuine...hold fast to what is good; love one another." Rom 12:9-10

Rootbeer,<P>I can only echo the wisdom that precedes this post.<P>Another thing that comes to mind is the picture of gold being refined in the fire. "But Father, it's bloody hot in here!" "I know, you aren't done yet".<P>However, don't give up on the Lord, he isn't the alcoholic, and he didn't 'send you' an alcoholic to punish you, or teach you, or any of those stupid, trite things Christians say when they feel the need to sound spiritual. <P>The fact is, we live in a fallen world. We fail numerous times every day, as do our husbands. When the failings of others hurt us repeatedly, the Lord graciously says "get out of the way of that two by four they are swinging, or you will get hurt" <P>You are still a precious daughter of the king. Insist on proper respect and stop scuffing over the line in the sand you drew. It was NOT unreasonably to ask for those things. STICK TO YOUR GUNS. EITHER MOVE OUT OR ASK HIM TO. THE LAW AND THE LORD ARE ON YOUR SIDE. sorry I shouted.<P>love you,<P>lizzie<P>------------------<BR><BR>"I have found the Pearl of Great Price"<BR>

Dear MTAW,I just got online, and have been reading all the above posts.<BR>I'm so sorry to hear what you've been going through this weekend- <BR>I can relate-mine hasn't been the best either, but no way as hard as yours,dear.<BR>The pain is so intense, isn't it?<BR>I'm sure, by now, with all the prayer warriors here, you have felt God's grace, and are more at peace now than last evening.<BR>I was wondering if you go to alanon? I know the 12 step programs originated in Christianity, however they have changed a lot,and you must stay grounded in Jesus, otherwise you can create your own Higher Power and make it the God of your own understanding.......... and it could be a cup of yogurt, or anything not even remotely close to our Savior.I know you are strong in the Lord, and hopefully there would be other Christians there.I used to work in the field (addictions)and it was rare when you would hear someone say "My higher power is Jesus Christ."<BR>The enemy disguises himself as being very "spiritual" in this program,so maybe alanon isn't even an option- I don't know- does anyone have any comments?<BR>I also used to work at a treatment center, and there was a program called "Hope", and it the 12 steps with the Christian perspective- everything was biblical, including all of the program books. I don't know how you could even find the Hope program.Maybe someone here knows.<BR>Re: 12 step programs-I don't want to offend anyone that may be in AA,etc., because it has worked for so many........<P>SueB- I haven't forgotton the assignment. H came home Sat morning, and was home all weekend and I really could only check in here briefly yesterday,but I'll be back soon if I can. H didn't get a call back on a place, so he's still living at home. I suppose he'll be lookingfor a place all week.<BR>(He'll be taking the computer.......)<BR>I'm counting the days until my therapy session.(Friday)<BR>Love and my prayers to you MTAW and all,<BR>Joynicole<BR>Is anyone fasting on Wednesday? <BR>What time is Tuesday evening prayer if I'm in NC? <BR>

I have to share something my father said to me when I was telling him about my H getting mad at me, then being nice, over and over and over again. He told me that it was my fault for allowing it to happen to me again and again. When I see how my H is acting now that he knows I'm considering getting serious, it makes me want to cry for all the lost years. If I had stood up and said "NO MORE" years ago, would it have stopped then? I think it would have. Now I have 13 years of all this nastiness "under my belt" and it's going to take a lot of work on both of our parts (if he decides to even try to fix it by going to counseling). Anyhow, I just want to offer that as something to think about. My mother called it being an "enabler". Well, I plan to pray for my H and for all of you who are suffering (now that I've found this site), and I definitely want God's power to heal things, but I do think we need to realize that we're not doing anyone any favors by being so nice and letting ourselves be used as doormats. I honestly think it would have been better for my H if I had not been so nice for so long. Now I'm being tough - but I'm so sick of it I almost don't even care if he won't go to counseling. So...I hope if someone needed to hear that it will be helpful. It has been to me.

JoyNicole, we start praying on Tues. nights at 11:00 PM EST. I think NC is on EST? Please pray with us, it is such a wonderful blessing. <P>Thank you all so very, very much for your prayers and your kind, encouraging notes. I don't know what I would do without you all to pray with me. I'm just heartbroken. Can't seem to get out of this painful feeling. I feel bewildered, feel like I have been an idiot for believing H. <P>I didn't lovebust this morning, in my opinion anyway. Actually I didn't talk to H much, except to say "no you don't" when he said "I love you" when he left. He was trying to act like nothing happened. He apologized again, saying that he knew he was doing the wrong thing, but "it wasn't any big deal, he just was going to have a couple and then leave, but you know how it is when you get to talking". I told him, "no, I don't know how it is, because I value my marriage more than that". I told him I just didn't think I could take it anymore, and he could think about it while his family was here. He didn't say anything, just left. <P>I'm praying that the Lord will keep me focused on Him, and will take away the pain. Don't think he's answered this prayer yet. Pain is still here, just as strong as yesterday. I could hardly keep from crying all day, but I made it through the day. I prayed for us all. My heart is still broken, and H is not here, so my guess is he's drinking again tonight. <P>I've done a lot of thinking today. I don't feel that I have an answer from the Lord yet as to what He wants me to do. I wanted so very much for our marriage to work out. <P>My H has family members coming to visit this weekend, so there won't be any decisions made until after they leave. I may go over to a friends house tonight and tomorrow night to visit until H has gone to bed, if he even comes back here. His family will be here Wed. so I have to get it together by then. <P>It just keeps playing over and over in my mind, "what did I do so wrong to deserve this?" I tried, I really did. I am getting numb inside. Please pray with me tonight. I feel so bad.

It just keeps playing over and over in my mind, "what did I do so wrong to deserve this?"<P>Who says you did anything wrong? You loved... there is no crime in that. And you don't deserve it, but we live in a flawed world. I guess what comes to mind is the conversation between the Lord and Job. You can't make the sun rise or cure your husband's alcoholism. Don't take on more than is yours. Hugs!!!!!

Dear AW, <P>I am praying with you. You will overcome this. <P>Lord, I pray that You would strengthen AW's husband to resist any temptation (especially alcohol) that comes his way. Stamp it out of his mind before it ever reaches his heart. Remove temptation, especially in the area of alcohol, OW. Make him strong where he is weak. Give him the courage to reject temptation. Teach him to walk in the Spirit so he will not fulfill the lust of the flesh.<P>Dear Heavenly Father, protect AW and let her rest and gather strength to do Your will. <BR>- Ask, and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knowck and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives and he who seeks finds, and to himto knocks it will be opened. Matthew 7:7,8 <P>I Praise You Lord, In Jesus Name, Amen.<P>Sweet dreams, AW<BR>You are in my thoughts & in my prayers.<BR>xo Pookie <p>[This message has been edited by Pookie14 (edited March 20, 2000).]

When I get the "what did I do to deserve this", one of the things that helps me is to know that it isn't necessarily something I sowed that I am reaping, but with our free will, we all make choices everyday. I've made bad choices in my life. My H has made bad choices. Those choices set situations in motion and have consequences. Yes, God could step in at any time...but he can also work to the good all things for those that love him.<P>Due to my H's affair, my relationship with God has grown and is maturing. I KNOW God. I have gone to church my whole life, but even sitting in the pew (there's a visual image for you ) there have been times I was really in a spiritual desert. I was there because going to church is what I do. I wasn't worshipping the Almighty Creator Father God. I said the liturgy by rote...I don't even need to turn to the page the pastor is on. Now I go, and I have once again been broken and I want nothing more than to lay at the foot of the cross, but I'm skittering about a bit before I actually lay face down...like a lot of us do. I have been hiding from God in some ways the last couple months. And when you hide...again, wheels set in motion.<P>I know this is a bit rambling. But we don't always get what we deserve...sometimes we get better...do we ask God when things are going great...What did I do to deserve these blessings? Not usually, we KNOW we don't deserve them.<P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"Let love be genuine...hold fast to what is good; love one another." Rom 12:9-10

A glimmer of hope today. . . . . <P>H apologized again this AM. Said he was wrong, will never go in a bar again. I told him quietly (no LB thank you Lord for going before me) that I had heard that promise before from him. Said he means it this time. Ok, we'll see. I said that I didn't know how I would be able to trust him again. He didn't respond. I think H has realized I'm at the end of my rope because I haven't said "I love you" to him since his barroom episode. <P>Yesterday, I had a counseling session with Jennifer Harley. It went well, she reaffirmed that I was doing the right things, and my H's addictions were not my fault. She suggested that I ask H to meet with Steve Harley as a way to recover our marriage. Said to tell him I wanted to recover our marriage together, and would he please contact Steve. So, this AM I mentioned it to him, gave him the phone no. to call and he said he would make an appt. I'm not getting my hopes up, because he is the master at worming his way out of doing things for the benefit of our marriage. I think it has sunk into his head that I'm ready to give up on him if he doesn't start moving in the right direction.<P>Sooo, I will keep praying for the Lord to work on us. Please pray with me that the Lord will give me the strength I need to do His will, and to be tough if it comes to that. I pray also that my H is convicted about making the necessary changes, and softens his heart to the Word of God. Thank you all so much. I'm looking forward to our prayer time tonight. Good things are going to happen!<P>Love to you,<BR>AW

Dear AW, <BR>That is a good way to start the day! I pray that he stays true to his word. Just remember that you aren't doing for your husband, but for our Lord. He is your motivation. Keep smiling <P>Can't wait to pray tonight. {{{xox}}}<BR>Pookie<BR>

Rootbeer, <P>I had a thought on the way to class today that was basically what Cindy posted, and it seems to be reflected in the direction God has shown you. It is this:<P>in science experiments, when you are following the protocol, you do steps 1, 2, and 3 and record the results. When you consistently do the steps the same way over and over, you learn something from the results -- that is, that within a small margin, you get the basically the same results. <P>This is a principle that can be relied upon in a majority of life situations, with 'chaos' being the exception.<P>What do we learn from this? <P>Only a fool keeps doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.<P>You are not a fool, you are a women of faith trying to find God's will. Perhaps what He is telling you is that this will only change when someone changes the inputs.<P>With my kids, I've found that they do not change unless they have logical consequences for their inappropriate behavior. This is true of me, my husband, and every other human I've known.<P>not profound, but perhaps you have gone overboard on the 'grace' and underdosed the 'logical consequences.<P>I'm not you, but I do know that in our situation I get exactly what I allow my h. to get away with, in terms of expectations and level of change.<P>love ya,<BR>liz<P><P>------------------<BR><BR>"I have found the Pearl of Great Price"<BR>