We are scheduled to see our counselor this Thursday evening.<P>My h. thinks things are going great -- I don't. <P>He is not repentant before God, and is unwilling to renew his vows.<P>I don't know what I should do. He said "Isn't it enough for me to treat you well and tell you I am trying my best?"<P>The problem is, without God, his best meant falling in love with a co-worker.<P>I hurt so much, and I've now got full-blown bronchitis as well as my eye flaring up.<P>Sometimes I want to get in the van and just drive forever. Then I remember my kids sweet faces and I feel STUCK.<P>lizzie, who loves God and doesn't know what to do.

Lizzie,<BR>What would the relationship look like if it was the way you would want it to be? This might be a good thing to think about in regards to specifics for your counseling session on Thursday. How would things be different, what actions would happen, etc.<P>Father, give this daughter, this pearl of great price, your kingly wisdom as she and her husband prepare to go to another counseling session. Heal her body physically so that she has the stamina to attack the evil one face to face. Guard her mind and comfort her as she rests in you. Help her to refute any thought that does not come from you. We thank you in advance for how you are going to strengthen this marriage. IJN

Lizzie,<P>You sound like you are struggling with your H's spirituality like I am. I understand just how you are feeling. My h has not turned his back on God but he certainly isn't growing as I figured he would. The bible is just another book gathering dust for him.<P>As I read your post I was convicted of my own attempts to "legislate morality" in my h's life. We can't change our h's we can only pray. God is the only one who can bring your h to his knees and all your attempts only drive your h further away. I am feeling the freedom to say these things to you only because I am and have been doing the same thing.<P>I will pray for your counseling session and please I ask you to pray for ours as well. My h said at our session yesterday, "she wants me to be the spiritual head in our home". The counselor asked him if that was a problem and my h said, "no, but I am doing my best". Well, needless to say, his best is a far cry from my idea of best. Its all perspective and the only perspective that is really important is God's.<P>Lord, help Lizzie and I to once and for all put our husbands spiritual growth and well-being into Your hands. Help us to keep our hands off and rest in the ability of Your Holy Spirit to change their hearts. Be with this couple as they seek the help of this counselor. Give them insight and direction for total healing of their relationship. God, will you control our situations, we give them to You. You know our need for a spiritual head in our homes, be that to us Lord until our husbands are able. Thank you Lord. IJN

SueB- good question. <P>I think if I could have it any way I wanted: <BR>1. we would be but singing in the choir again, <P>2. he would hold my hand and pray for our family every night before we fall asleep, and <P>3.he would not make sacriligious statements like "If God can send Moses a burning bush, then I want a BLANKing burning bush, too." <P>This comment scare the bejeebers out of me. I laughed nervously and said, "could you warn me the next time you are going to blaspheme, in case of lightning bolts?"<P>Taj, I don't want to legislate, I want him to recognize that God already told him how to live a Christian life and he turned a deaf ear! God even sent him a warning dream a few days before his adultery, and he shook it off! That is scary to me.<P>liz

Lizzie, I'll be praying for you and H. I can surely understand how you feel. <P>My greatest desire would be for my H to become a Christian, and the spiritual head of our household. I would so dearly love to be able to pray with him, instead of just "for" him all the time. <P>I feel the same as Taj, <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>God is the only one who can bring your h to his knees and all your attempts only drive your h further away<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> that the "shut up and pray" method is what I need to do in my particular situation. For me to say anything to my H about how he should be acting, even though biblically I would be correct, will just drive him away from me, as well as away from hearing God's voice talking to his heart. It is so frustrating sometimes though, huh. <P>The Lord is still working on your H's heart and soul, Lizzie. And, yes, it is a scary thought to think that our H's may be choosing the wrong path leading them away from God, towards eternal damnation. That's why we've GOT to keep praying constantly for their salvation and closer walk with the Lord. He wants them to live for Him more than we do. It hurts Him sooo much more than it does us when they turn a deaf ear to His voice. <P>The enemy is hard at work trying to get us to give up on our marriages. You are so precious to our Father, and Satan knows that, so he tries harder and harder to get to you. That's what's happening to me, every day. <P>Dear Heavenly Father, I lift up your dear child Lizzie to you, asking for your peace for her. Lord, I pray that You will be with her every step of her walk today, and every day. Dear Father, I pray the Holy Spirit will place an overwhelming conviction upon her husband's heart and soul, so strong that he will know without a shadow of a doubt that You are calling him and he can no longer ignore your voice. Fill his heart with a deep abiding love for Lizzie. Thank you Lord for working in her husband's life, and for the restoration of their marriage. I praise You Jesus, you are the name above all names. Thank you Father, IJN AMEN<P>

Lizzie,<P>I know how important the recommittment of your vows is. I too have asked for that to happen in my marriage. I want a small ceremony with my 2 children and the 2 couples who helped us through so much of the initial turmoil. I would want the Pastor to speak to us specifically in regards to our situation and rededicate ourselves to God and each other. It hasn't happened yet Lizzie and I'm in my 39th month since discovery.<P>God will not allow a recommittment I don't believe until all is right with our hearts. We need to keep things in perspective and God's priority. Let God work and you be your h's "pearl of great price". Remember, he is your ministry right now.<P>This is a well worn phrase but we need to "Let go and Let God".<P>Blessings, Taj

I understand your concern about your H's faith...as well you should be.<P>However, in your concern, are you helping him in his struggle or judging him in it?<P>His crass coment about the burning bush...I guess we could debate about blaspheme, but don't you think the deeper meaning was that he was trying to say that he is looking for a clear sign because he is stumbling in the dark.<P>Sounds to me...even if he has not been successful his spiritual journey back to his faith...he may be trying harder than you think. Otherwise he wouldn't be looking for a burning bush.<P>About the choir...yes that would be nice...but the choir really is only a symbol of faith...not the real thing. Not everybody singing in an earthy choir will join the realms of the Heavenly Host, after all.<P>And about holding your hand praying. Again, that would be wonderful...but what did Jesus say about some of the people praying in the temple. God can hear the groaning of the soul at times far more clearly than a prayer that is not sincere. You know...some people can have different styles of faith. I don't make big demonstrations of my faith. I pray silently many times of the day. I would feel almost show offy (probably not rationally) with grander exhibits of faith. It is just not my style...but it has nothing to do with my faith.<P>Just give it some thought...better yet prayer.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Ladies, I find this discussing so interesting. I too am constantly praying for my H and his role in our family. I feel his walk with the Lord is not the same as mine but I have made such changes in my own life since discovery. But I sometimes wonder if he has made changes in his own quiet way I do not see. No, he doesn't take my hand at night and pray with me. But I don't take his either. I am praying silently there in bed--is he? I do read my Bible. I don't see him reading his, but I found a devotional in his briefcase. I also so him reading the devotional book I bought him for Christmas at night. Not every night, but more so than before. He does go to church with me but he went even when the affair was ongoing (not sure how he was able to walk into God's house with that on his conscience). Maybe now he is actually listening to the sermon (instead of making his "to do" list). Yes, he actually did that! He knows I wish to go to Sunday school also & offered to go with me. We haven't done it yet because he has been out of town, but it is amazing that he even offered. So while I don't believe he has the relationship that I have, I could be wrong and he definitely has more of a relationship than ever before. I try to let God work in this area but it is sometimes hard. I forward him my email devotionals daily but try not to push any further than that. Looks like this is one thing most of us have in common and can continue to pray for. I marvel at how my eyes are sometimes opened during these discussions. Blessings, J

Ladies,<BR>God showed me something last week that I want to share. God convicted me on Friday night as I got off the subway, under the streets of Brooklyn (like the visuals) That I have even turned prayer into an idol. I have been praying so hard for my husband that I have ben counting on the prayer and not God. I have been praying the prayer but not praying the prayer to God. I slipped. I was mortified. But I realised that perhaps again, I was more concerned with my husband rather than my relationship with God. In the past I have seen God make changes in my life and husband's by praying once and just letting God have it. Actually it was not a conscious thing. I just prayed about something and then just didn't give it much thought afterwards. God answered that prayer and changes were made. God has worked in this way with me several times.I have been hearing and obeying and slipping in this over and over. I think God's message for me was,. I have heard your prayers. I will answer them in My time. Trust ME Cindy and wait on ME! I have not given up praying for my husband but I have been more conscious about how I pray and I have been humbled. <P>For it is God I seek. He said to me also. Aren't I enough. Yes, Lord, You are enough.<BR>During this very long trial ( I guess I just haven't gotten it right yet) God has repeatedly led me to see that it is He I must seek. (I lost my train of thought) As I was praying I regained my train of thought. All during the last 5 years my biggest battle or the issue I wrestle with the most is knowing when to talk to my husband and knowing when to shut up and let GOD> I still wrestle with this now. My h and I have had several encouraging talks in the last three days. But I have wondered if this is God's will or me rushing in (fools rush in). But I have turned over the results to my God. I have gone before Him and said. Lord use it all to your purpose. And have said Lord, I only want what You have planned for me. Yet, I do believe that God does want our marriages restored. I just don't want to take over control or get in His way. I wrestle with this all the time. I often wonder if it is Satan playing with me head. So, all I can do is pray with the right motivation and I must remain conscious of my intentions.<BR>He leads each of us in His way, which is always designed specifically and uniquely to us individually. When you think about that it is mind boggling. <BR>Well it is prayer time. Praise the Lord, His instruction is mighty to save. I need saving daily, as I fall short of the glory of God. I thank Him that He sees me and knows me. He even sings over me. Thank you Lord.<BR><p>[This message has been edited by hw (edited March 28, 2000).]

hw - you know, this was a topic during the sermon last Sunday, the reasons why we pray should be to seek Him, to please Him, not only to "get" something from Him. The pastor made the comment that it is good to ask Him for things according to His will, but our prayers will be more beneficial if we are praying in the right frame of mind, to please our Heavenly Father, praising and worshiping him, and this being the motive for praying, without there being an underlying reason for the prayer that is only for our benefit. I guess this goes along with seeking Him first. <P>In my mind though I keep remembering the words "pray without ceasing". I think that that is what God wants me to do. Sometimes I get really confused on how I should be praying, and worry that maybe the way I pray is hindering my prayers for my H. Maybe what really counts is the condition of our hearts. Anyway, I'm still praying without ceasing for my H, as well as all us praying wives. <P>

It went incredibly well last night.<P>I have been upset because my husband's brother, who is a pastor, told me this week that he still thinks I should file for divorce to "get him to wake up and cherish you." <P> I think this is dumb, BAD, meanspirited advice from a brother who is angry and disappointed in his little brother's behavior.<BR>I wasn't that blunt, but I did tell him that my h. needs time and I intend to give it to him.<P>Wednesday morning, I met with our Senior Pastor and the Teaching Elder (my h.'s friend) of our church. <P>I found out that my brother in law called our pastor last week, pushing for my h. to be 'properly publicly disciplined', because he felt that my h. was 'getting away with living a lie'. <P>Our pastors and I agreed that nothing formal should be done, and my brother in law is out of line. He is just being angry and legalistic. <P>Our pastors both feel that my h. is very humbly searching for God and that formal discipline would drive him away from fellowship. <P>The pastor who is his friend plans to ask my h. to meet with him and just informally encourage him not to take communion until he can again profess his faith. (H. isn't taking communion now anyway, he was a deacon and he knows the guidelines and the biblical mandate not to take 'unworthily'.)<P>Both my pastors encouraged me to keep on doing what I've been doing. They prayed for me to be strong and patient, and neither of them agreed with my brother in law about filing for divorce.<P>Our session with the counselor was wonderful. My h. talked about my need for a new vow and we sort of 'negotiated' about what I'd like him to promise. The counselor pointed out that I need to look at all the good between us and stop pushing for him to say things that I think I need to hear.<P>The biggest help was when I said I want him, as an adult, to be able to say "I choose you", because he has always regretted the choice that 'dumb 22 year old" made.<P>Guess what? He said, "What if I can tell you "I CHOOSE US?" and "I don't regret that choice that the 22 year old made, I'm glad he chose you."<P>It wasn't ribbons and lace and candlelight and roses, but it really helped me heal a little more.<P>Man, this stuff is sooo hard, and it works on you so deep, y,know? If I didn't know Jesus loved me so much, I would never have the resources to hold up through this.<P>love to all,<BR>lizzie\pearl<P>------------------<BR><BR>"I have found the Pearl of Great Price"<BR>

Lizzie,<BR>I'm so glad your session went well. It must have warmed your heart so much to hear your H say that he's glad he chose you to be his wife. Sometimes the littlest thing can mean so much to us. For many years I have felt that as soon as my son turns 18, my H will be gone for good. <P>About a month ago I asked him what he thought would happen after our son graduates and moves out, and he said, "I guess we'll have the house to ourselves." I asked him if he planned on staying then, and he said "of course I am". It made my day. <P>I don't agree with your BIL that you should file for divorce to wake him up. That would definitely be taking the matter into your own hands and not letting God handle it. God is working on your H's heart. Its so hard to be patient and wait on the Lord, but its what we have to do. You're doing the right thing, Lizzie .<P>Love and prayers to you,<BR>AW

Thanks, Rootbeer. I need the affirmation, my brother in law can be VERY pushy.<P>liz

Lizzie,<P>Sounds like a great counseling session. Your Pastor and leadership sound like men of God who know ,"but by the grace of God there go I".<P>Disappointment in others can drive us to such stern discipline that we don't look like lovers of God. Your BIL must of been deeply hurt by your h's betrayal as well. Sounds alot like my son, although he didn't push for divorce he certainly was grieved by the ungodly behavior of his father.<P>My h was disciplined in our home by the Pastor and 5 Overseers......believe me that was enough! That in itself has been an obstacle to healing in many ways. I think public discipline would of destroyed him. You know God doesn't want to break our spirits just get us to know true godly sorrow. My h was a Deacon too!<P>I am so glad to hear that there are churches today which are following proper discipline for Christians and not just turning them away. Don't get me wrong, I believe in church discipline but it must be done in love and humility. Your h will come back to Christ with that kind of an example of love.<P>Blessings, TAj

Thanks, Taj. <P>I find our situations to be so similar, and I know that you understand both the impatience and the patience that are inside of me.<P>In many ways, I opened myself up to meddling by his brothers, because after he told them all that "WE" had problems, I set them all straight about what the problems were. (With my h.s knowledge). <P>I was not about to let them believe that I was as miserable and lazy and manipulative as he painted me during the affair! <P>This self-defense posture has brought out the 'protector' in each of his brothers, and he has several. They are all very upright, uptight Christians, who think it could never happen to them. <P>They have offered several times to split the cost of supporting me and the boys so I am not financially dependent on my h. Sweet, but not all that helpful at this time!<P>I am blessed by my support at our church and in our circle of friends, so I listen to the good advice and politely 'blow off' the bad! I wish people would realize that I am not some pillar of strength and patience, though. It is uncomfortable to be perceived as a 'Saint', while knowing that I am merely one of 'the saints'.<P>My biggest help is here and the push I get to keep praying when I post. Thanks to you all for letting me dump here when I need to.<P>love and prayers, <BR>liz