I say sound, mostly because when dealing in our own situations we seem to be looking through mud and our thinking is fuzzy.. Need your outside perspective, Godly wisdom, prayful answers and if there is a 'word of knowledge' out there, I would love to hear it.<P>As H was here again for his weekly 'watching the girls' for me, and my time with him too, as he has been nice (kinda like dating) most of the time, anyway, he has said things like, "well if I were here", or "If I lived with you again".... Those are not very subtle hints, so I asked... Are you thinking about coming back home? <P>(H)Kinda...<P>(Me)Gee, that scares me....<P>(H)Fine, don't worry about it then.<P>(Me)after 9 times don't you think I would be hesitant? I mean, what would make this time different????<P>(H)What, are you counting....<BR>I have a headache, rub my head so I can sleep will ya...........<P>OK, so I need to set some "What if" boundrys, my line in the sand, healthy standard ect... But as you see from the above He doesn't have normal conversations, he tends to go around important issues, doesn't want to deal with anything uncomfortable, avoids conflict, even just talking about ways to hinder further problems.<P>And as for me... H treats me better when we only see each other 2 days a week, he brought his computer this time when he came over and spent very little time with Anyone, I made one of his favorite meals after the kids went to bed, lit a candle and we ate at the little table....H ate quick, said "that was wonderful" patted my hand and headed back to the puter.... I wanted to talk to him about all of the things going through my mind...<P>These are the things I want to know,<P>Why did you leave this last time? Why do you want to come home again this time? What would make this time different than before? What are you willing to do to keep it from happening again? How can I be sure your ready this time and Im not just being stupid, and setting myself up for emotional devestation again? What are you going to do about OW/OC? Will you let me be involved with all contact? Read all e-mails? Know EVERYTHING? Quit saying nothing when I ask a question that you think I wouldn't want to hear the answer to (this drives me crazy)? Start exposing more of yourself, being honest, open, and totally transparent to me?<P>Ok, those are just a few, but H wouldn't even touch the first one, that I have asked, so how do I get H to DEAL with the situation in such a mannor that will be healthy for our relationship/marriage?<P>I think rather than deal with anything, H would rather just go to his grandmas and do nothing.... Ugh! This time thats what I will let him do... When he is ready to have a relationship, he'll want to make it work wont he?????<BR>I wonder sometimes, if H just thinks that his coming home is enough and that he doesn't have to 'work' on renewing/rebuilding/renovating our marriage so that this will never happen again, he wants everything to just 'POOF' be right.<P>What do you do with a man who doesnt understand reality? It scares him so much that he lives in 'puter land'?<P>I have so much more on my mind, but its muddled..... I'll have to do some more sorting, and get back on to see what you respond so that I can once again think.<P>I told him he treats me nicer when he isn't living here... Wouldn't that give him a clue?<P>Ok Im done.....HELP....I love him here, but he has to start doing something to change this cycle!!!!!!<P>------------------<BR>Jesus is the only answer!<BR>His blessings, Cozy

Gee, are our H's twins? I feel bad giving up after 7, when here you are at 9... <P>Since the separations began, my H has treated me better while out of the house than when he was in...he spent his time in front of the computer or TV as well. Now when he comes over, he intends to be here and we talk. He has even begun doing household chores now...he hardly picked up his socks when he was home the last time.<P>Anyway, I'm trying to say I know where you are coming from. I have the same questions. My H wants to come home. I get this screeching feeling in my chest when I consider it. I don't trust that he will not hurt me again. I don't trust that he will not leave me again. I don't trust that he won't take up with, if not the OW, someone...<P>You and I Cozy, and all the rest of us, have to put our trust in God. He will give us grace sufficient to resolve our situations. He knows the outcome and is/has been preparing us all the way. I've got divorce papers in my hands today. At this very moment I do not know whether to file them or not. I'm just trying to stay laying at the foot of the cross (with my fingernails dug into the wood).<P>When bad things go on this long, we are faced with so much. I know that I have not kept up on forgiveness. The last 3 days my tears have just flowed and I pray that my bitterness flows away with them.<P>Cozy, I pray for you that you absolutely release yourself and your husband into God's hands. Trust God.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"Let love be genuine...hold fast to what is good; love one another." Rom 12:9-10

cozy,<P>SueB is the expert on "Boundaries" so I am sure she will help in that area. <P>From my perspective you are not asking for anything that is out of line. You deserve assurances in light of the continual repetition of you h's behavior.<P>He sounds very defensive.........<P>It would seem that we create more problems when we sweep under the rug the ones we currently have. I don't believe that it is in anyone's interest to ignore issues that would bring healing if they were dealt with.<P>I believe that that is what boundaries are all about. Drawing a line in the sand and saying, "this is what I need to go on in this situation."<P>In alot of ways, we can be enablers of bad behavior if we overlook something that we know is destructive. God doesn't overlook......He exposes. <P>Father, give cozy great wisdom in this situation. Truly she wants her marriage restored, but keep her from any decision that would only gloss over the hurt of the past. Take the blinders off her h's eyes that he might see the need to work through cozy's concerns. Where he is defensive Father give him the spirit of reconcilitation. I ask that cozy's questions would get answers in Your perfect way and in Your perfect timing. IJN

Well, Cozy, friend, I have read and reread your post, prayed about it and read it again and again.<P>You have some tough questions and they are worthy of answers. So here goes my thoughts and take them with a grain of salt and lots of prayer: (and I will pray as I type)<P>In all my years working a a social worker, I think the most valuable thing I learned in writing out reports is to consider the "what is" of the situation. Take all emotion out, opinions, etc....just the what is...the facts...what you see before you....<P>As I read your post, the "what is's" that I see are:<P>1.(H)An emotionally distant person who runs or strikes out when cornered; i.e. left nine times, retreats to puter for long periods of time, displays defensiveness when the ball is put back in his park (Fine, don't worry about it then/what, are you counting...)<BR>2.(H)A person who prefers self comfort over all else, including admitting fears, responsibilities, reality, etc..<BR>3.(W)Responsible (probably overly since someone has to be the adult in the family)able to problem solve, make do, adjust, desires peace (at what cost to self?)honesty, highly vulnerable and willing to "try harder".<P>Factor into the what is stuff, the roles each of you has played in the relationship. <BR>Factor in the possibility that H believes that since things have been more comfortable between you lately, he slowly slides back into his normal behavior,(bringing puter to the house, staying focused on puter)figuring that you will be so glad that he is there, that you will allow the behavior...after all, he has given you a shred of hope by throwing out the choice morsel of "well, if I were here," or "If I lived with you again"....<P>What I am learning in the process of setting boundaries and asking the Lord to change me is seeing where I have failed myself and my husband...Cloud & Townsend in discussing the boundary resistant spouse identified that those of us living with this type of person have much to repent of as well in these ways:<BR>1. Pretending that everything is all right.<BR>2. Not speaking the truth.<BR>3. Being emotionally absent or withdrawing instead of bringing up problems.<BR>4. Not following up on consequences.<BR>5. Nagging and not acting responsibly.<BR>6. Being passively revengeful.<BR>7. Being self-righteous and condemning.<BR>8. Gossiping about your spouse but not willing to tell hin your feelings. (pp. 207-208 Boundaries in Marriage)<P>When I first read these things, I didn't see myself in most of them, but as I read the following pages, I could see how I wasn't necessarily not telling the truth, etc. i.e. how I felt when my husband spent all of his time on the puter, not specifically saying, "I feel lonely when you are on the puter all the time". I began to see boundaries in a different light. They talk about how the boundary resistant person has difficulty becoming aware of the effect their behavior has on others and why it is important for us to be specific in letting them know how we are affected by the behaviors. I can share more about this with you if you want later.<P>But back to the questions you have for him:<P>Two thoughts run through my head simultaneously: I suppose the battle for the mind continues for us all.<P>First thought:<BR>The question "Why did you leave this last time?" what is the purpose of the question? Are you trying to find out what needs weren't being met, so you can fix it or is your desire to understand his fears, his feelings, what? In some ways, what does it matter? He left...for whatever reason...the question is do you want him back and under what conditions? What would need to change in order for you to rebuild trust? What would you need from him specifically to show a rededication and commitment to the relationship? As you write out your list to this end, keep your statements "I" statements. Test yourself in what you are willing or not willing to accept. If you are not willing to accept "nothing" answers, what are the consequences for that? A wise person told me that a good paraphrase of Phillipians 2 was "I consider you when considering me". In that light of taking care of yourself emotionally, you ned to have a clear idea of what is good for you and what you want/need from the other person. If you strongly feel that he would rather go to his grandma's and do nothing, then you also need to respect his boundary to do nothing and figure out what you need to do to protect yourself in that light. <P>And no, my guess is that your comment about him treating you nicer when he isn't living there flew right over his head. That is where we have to practice the honesty stuff I mentioned above, being specific to how another's behavior effects us. Not general statements. <P>Have to go to my own counseling session as I continue my own boundary journey. Praying for you Cozy!<P>

I'm praying for you too Cozy. SueB makes some very interesting points. In several ways your situation could be ours, except substitute the computer with alcohol. <P>What SueB said <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>figuring that you will be so glad that he is there, that you will allow the behavior<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> hit home for me. I have allowed my H to walk all over me for many, many years. I was si fearful of him leaving, having an affair, getting drunk and not coming home that I did anything he said, and walked around on eggshells, trying constantly to please him. Well, guess what. He got drunk anyway, he had an affair (several really) anyway, and left 6 times anyway. So what did I gain? Nothing, except a closer relationship with God.<P>I'm afraid I don't have any good advice for you Cozy, except prayer. I am still worried that I'm going to mess things up and H will go on a bender, but have come to realize that if he does <B><I>IT'S NOT MY FAULT, I didn't cause him to do it</B></I>, no matter what he says. <P>Dear Heavenly Father, I lift your precious daughter Cozy up to you, asking that You fill her heart and soul completely with the Holy Spirit. Lord, guide her, answer those questions that are going around and around in her mind. Help her Lord, to ward off the enemy. Dear Lord, I pray that You will place a heavy burden upon her husband's heart to come to full repentance before You. Lord, I praise you in the highest for all you have done for Cozy, and her husband. Thank you Lord for being with her, comforting her, giving her a peaceful heart. Thank you Father, IJN AMEN

I am very tired from working on a paper most of last night so my answers are short.<BR>Pray the puter goes boink! Pray that God take that puter out of his life like we pray for God to take the ow's or alcohol etc...<P>AW my favorite line about feeling like walking on egg shells is from the Annie Lennox song to me it feels like, "I have been walking on broken glass!"<P>Lord, I lift cozy up to you and praise You that you have sent these women to share with each other the wisdom You have given them. I thank you Lord for cozy. Lord, You know exactly where You want her and what You want to show her through this trial and sorrow. Lord, let her seek Your face with all her heart, soul and mind. Father, take that computer completely from her husband. It too is an addiction! Lord, You hate all idols before You. Lord, let cozy's husband choose to put the computer away and spend real time with his children and his wife. We lift her h up to You to change in ways she never thought possible realizing there are someways in which he may not change. Lord, help cozy with this. Draw cozy even closer to you through this trial. Keep her in the shadow of your wings where you can protect her from the intensity of the storm. Let her look to You to meet all her needs. In Jesus name.. Amen

Back from the counseling thing. No wisdom gleaned from there tonight. Just says I am on the right track.<P>My second thought was just as Jesus tells us to treat others as we would like to be treated, we find ourselves in relationships where we are not being treated as we would like to be treated. When our husbands do not answer our questions or say the infamous "nothing" (as my husband does as well Cozy) they also are not being honest with us. When they throw the morsels out that give us hope, we hungrily grab onto it because we do want to have hope for restored marriages. In the process of us determining how we want to be treated, i.e. boundaries, we need to encourage and respond positively verbally, such as "thanks for the honest answer, I appreciate that". and learn to stop there and wait for the next opportunity to again encourage...where I mess up is that I get so excited that he answered one thing honestly, that I then feel the freedom (out of my hope and desire for intimacy with my husband) to ask more and more questions and I find my husband feels bombarded and threatened and he closes down again. I am now learning to respond differently to those morsels...for example, when my/your husband throws out a morsel such as "If I were living here"... my/your response needs to pursue his line of thinking (for in reality you would desire for him to pursue your line of thinking if you said something like that) To respond positively then would be saying, "Really? That is an interesting point, what else would you do differently if you were living here?" To receive his answers and then to thank him for sharing his thoughts and then to drop it while you pray for further opportunities for him to share thoughts and to mull over his comments to see if they are valid to the relationship, fit within your boundaries, etc. ( I guess it is kind of like the shut up and pray thing) Then after prayer, we could say something like, "I have given what you said some thought and for me....and state what you thought about it, what limits you would have with it, or identify what problem you would have about it". What I am realizing is that we are wanting that one flesh, one mind intimacy and we aren't there yet and so in some ways we are being unfair to our husbands with that expectation over one small morsel thrown out and we are setting ourselves up for more hurt. As you said Cozy, right now, seeing him 2 days a week seems to work right now to keep the positive stuff going, and yet, now he has brought the ole puter in the house and ignored all while there, which doesn't foster intimacy or closeness with you or the children. He has plenty of time while on his own to do the puter thing to occupy his time. For you to set a boundary that if he feels a need to be on it as he was while at your house, thus avoding intimacy, then perhaps it was time for him to go home...identifies that you feel your are worth more than what he is giving you and that since you want to continue to have loving feelings for him and not allow any resentment to fester, here is a line that you feel is important to the relationship. His response may be to not come over for a few days again to punish you, but if your long range goal is to have the kind of marriage that God calls us to have, then this behavior needs to change before he comes home.<P>My other thought is this: In my own situation where boundary lines sometimes border on possible safety issues, I have hesitated saying something to avoid his rage and foul mouth. (which is not honoring to either of us in the long range goal-both behaviors, mine and his) I have come to realize that in the process of boundary setting, I may need to leave the house so that I am not lamblasted with the verbal barrage that no one deserves. I have hesitated to do this because as you suspect that your husband would just go to Grandma's and do nothing, I suspect my husband would file for divorce rather than address his rage issues. Pastor has made me aware that I am allowing fear to control me and that I am trying to alter my husband's behavior, which in effect is stepping on his boundaries. He is in charge of his choices, just as I am in charge of mine. If I want people to treat me as they would like to be treated, then I must allow him to have his choices as well. I can make response decisions based on if he does this, then how will I respond, but I must honor and respect where he is at, be it lala land or whereever. I must allow him to feel his own feelings and the consequences of his own choices. Honestly it is a scary thing and why it is important for us to decide what our boundaries are as I mentioned in the first post. I can tell you that after the first few times of saying to him that I will not be in the same room with him when he talks to me that way and to let me know when he is done raging and would like to talk in a respectful manner and then quietly leaving the room and not engaging when he makes further negative comments about me running from the problem, that he has stomped and fumed, etc. but the tirade time has been less than when I tried to "talk some sense" into him. I do know now that I will pack the tent and camping gear and leave the house if I feel safety for my love for him is at risk. I do know that he hates to be alone and that he would do nearly anything to keep from being alone. I do know that he has had less nasty tirades in the last three weeks. We have so far to go and I think you know that the two of you also have far to go.<P>Hope this is helpful Cozy.

I wrote a huge post, and poof, my puter disconnected and it was lost..... I wanted to thank you all for your advice and prayers, and SueB you said a mouthful... Im still digesting. Your diagnosis seems to be right on of our relationship and roles, add to that a severe problem with anxiety and panic attacts to H's disfunction that is triggered by any thoughts of change, accompanied by his "I want someone to just love me as I am" (I don't want to change)selfish factor and you have my delema..... <P>I think This is another one to just give to the Lord, and not be afraid to let H know how he makes me feel when he brings his drug (computer) with him to watch the girls and visit us... In my sons words....Gee, he is either on the puter or sleeping, thats not watching the girls, that is just haveing an adult present in the house...My son is right, I think I'll get a sitter for Wednesdays that does something... What started out Wednesday with the question from my h "Should we be living together for God to be happy with me"..(One of his 'not so suble hints'), to, "your better off without me" parting remark as he left just this am.... I can see that he cant even keep his mind committed to one thought for more than 3 days....<P>Now Im back to the same feeling/questions I had when he left in the end of february.. "What was that all about?" "Why are you having a change of heart again?" and others that I don't even know how to explain in understandable ways....<P>Life stinketh, I thinketh.. <P>------------------<BR>Jesus is the only answer!<BR>His blessings, Cozy

"Life stinketh, I thinketh.."<P>I love it! Guess that is what keeps our eyes upward and longing for the time when we can go home. Remember, We are just aliens here.<P>God Bless you lady!

SueB, <P>paragraphs, PLEASE!<P>I love to read your posts, but on my computer, with a flickering screen, I need paragraphs, please?<P>lizzie