Tonight I had my best friend and her husband over for dinner. This is the first time in six years of marriage I ever got permission<BR>from my H to have guests in our home! We were careful not to even mention religion or church which would make him uncomfortable. But our five year old gave a beautiful blessing on the food at the table when H called upon her to say it (when she asked who would say it). <P>It didn't really go very well from my perspective. Before they came he insisted that I hadn't told him anything about it even though it had been on the calendar for weeks. He then went out and had his several beers in the gargage as I cooked. He was only a little bit of a jerk during the evening and only made one snide comment afterwards. Am I really expect to minister to this? I think I just made a big mistake.<P>After dinner my little girl said she never wanted to see daddy again. Twice. Out of the blue. "Because he screams at you mommy." Usually she seems to have a pretty good relationship with him. And this was a very peaceful event by historical standards. She is a loving, gentle and sensitive soul often disguised by her dynamic, outgoing and playful, fun-loving ways. I only hope I am not damaging her future by staying in a bad example of a relationship.<P>Believe me, if things hadn't been going smoothly and much much better for the last three months I never would have attempted this tiny little dinner party. No matter how much "better" it gets I still end up feeling horrible.<P>I went out to the Barnes and Noble at 10 p.m. (just down the road from me) to see if I could find Boundaries in Marriage or POPW. They listed one copy of POPW and one copy of the BIM workbook but couldn't find either one on the shelf. <P>Can't afford both now, and would rather browse before deciding which to buy so it will be a long drive a long way to the Christian bookstore tomorrow. <P>Any other suggestions for strength to not bail out? My love bank has been bankrupt for over five years. <P>Love,<P>K<P>

Kareena,<BR>Write to me.<BR>eramhoff@home.com<P>I feel the hurt you are feeling with you my friend. <P>Couple of thoughts:<P>It sounds like your husband has difficulty with relating to any type of intimacy and felt threatened by having others in his little domain. Part of the control personality. You say he was not as big a jerk as he could have been. I guess following the Harley philosophy then, today is a good day to affirm him. In the honesty realm, something like, "I know get togethers like last night are difficult for you and I just want you to know how much I appreciate that you were willing to have so and so over last night. Thank you." And walk away.<P>I think you are wise to view the comments made by your daughter as a red flag that things need to change in your house. Can you quietly speak to the issue of him yelling and how you are concerned for your daughter? The "I" statements, how you and she are affected by this behavior of his. If he begins to yell again, then speak to that directly, " there is no need to raise your voice like this. I am not going to stay here and listen to this. when you are ready to speak to me in a civil tone, I am interested in what you have to say." and walk away. If he follows you into the next room and continues to yell, calmly repeat that you will no longer tolerate him yelling at you and if necessary, you and your daughter will leave the house for awhile so that he can calm down. Thinking back to my days with my alcoholic, this would bring a couple of possible responses, one being that HE would leave and go drinking. It is a choice he makes. the serenity prayer is a good one to remember, accepting the things we cannot change, (his drinking/yelling)change the things we can ( you no longer tolerating standing there and taking the yelling and taking action for yourself and your daughter) and seeking the wisdom to know the difference between what you can change and what you cannot change.<P>When he is calmer, perhaps you can then say to him, "you seemed pretty angry earlier and I would like to understand what you were angry about. Can you tell me more about your anger without yelling?" If he says something, you parrot it back to him, something like (H) I don't like other people in my house" (You)You feel uncomfortable about other people being in our house." If he says something like yeah your friend is a real jerk and that husband of hers.....you respond, you feel that friend is a jerk and you were uncomfortable with friend's husband. Can you tell me more about this? If he is able to continue, great, continue parroting back and identifying possible feelings that he seems to be experiencing. "Sounds like..." "Wow, that must have been tough on you"..."thank you for making such an effort then". "I had no idea that you felt this way." Etc. etc.<P>During this time, you are not defending your friend or her husband and why they are not jerks. You are just listening to how your husband feels about it. It doesn't matter if his thinking is correct or not, they are his feelings and our job is to listen, affirm the feelings as his, empathize with the struggle that he must have had with those feelings and to appreciate that he was able to share those things for you. And walk away.....<P>If you are able to say "I realized that this must have been a struggle for you since you haven't been drinking and I noticed that you were before they came over", then do it. If you recognize that he so far has not been dealing with his feelings directly and probably uses passive aggressive behavior to get up the courage to be aggressive, putting the responsibility and blame on you instead of owning his feelings, it may help you to cope and to identify what changes you need to make in response, safety from the yelling, staying at a friend's house if necessary, taking daughter to the library for awhile. You do not have the power to keep him from drinking, more than likely even staying in the house as the guard to possibly prevent him from having a reason to go out drinking will fail. <P>During the walk-away time, you can pray, you can praise God for his unconditional love, you can play a game with your daughter, go for a walk, concentrate on cleaning a part of the house, etc. Things you have control over. You can ask the Holy Spirit to help you to stay focused on the task of speaking respectfully and to the issue, to help you to guard your mouth, and to discern when safety is an issue. I don't know if the library has the two books we have been talking about, but they may be able to borrow them from another library. Other books that I am sure the library can get its hands on if they don't have it now, is "Getting then sober" by Toby Rice Drew and "Codependent no More" by Melanie....can't remember her last name...HW, you know? I found Toby's book informative in how I am reacting to my husband's behavior. I think that understanding in conjunction to the biblical perspective of BIM would be helpful. <P>Father, Comfort this daughter of yours and be her strength when she cannot be strong. Give her wisdom in how to stand for the truth in an honoring way. Help her to think clearly in identifying how she is affected by the behavior of her husband and what words or action she needs to take to protect herself and her daughter. Give her an added measure of love for her husband when he is being unloveable. Fill her with Your peace as she honors You with her own behavior, speaking the truth in love, free from all fear and with great self-control so that her actions will be in line with Your will. Surround her with others that will be supportive and uplifting. Encourage her Lord!<P>Father, We also pray for Kareena's husband, that You strengthen him and give him an aversion to the taste of alcohol, that he be repulsed by it and become increasingly aware of the hold it has on him, of how he retreats to it for revenge, comfort and whatever reason he uses to rationalize his behavior. We ask that You help him to see his desperation, how his behavior is affecting others, and not accomplishing his goals. We stand in the gap and fight the battle for his mind and his emotions. We rebuke Satan and his power over Kareena's husband. We bind him and throw him away from this house, for You have given us the authority over all powers of evil. Knowing You have a plan for all of us, we ask that You bring her husband to his knees, to be broken that You can fully establish the plan You have for them. Place Your mirror in front of him that he can see the desolation before him and bind his fears that he can be readied for You to do a mighty work in his life. <P>We ask these things in Jesus' name, Amen.<P><p>[This message has been edited by SueB (edited April 01, 2000).]

Karenna,<BR> The book is "Co-Dependent No More" by Melanie Beattie. It is available at the library and has been around for years. It was her first and there are many more. Plus daily meditation books. A great one that helped me was "The Langauage of Letting Go" by Melanie Beattie. My husband doesn't do well socially either but it seems it is only with my friends and family. I do think co-dependency is an issue with alcoholics but in Dr. Harley's line of thinking about His Needs Her Needs I don't agree with the idea of co-dependency. Read my posting co-dependency under non-negotiating. God Bless!<BR>Celest

Celeste, the purpose of reading something like Melanie Beattie's work (thank you for the last name, I just went blank)is to understand alcoholism and how we as wives have a tendency to be swallowed up in the disease. I realize that everyone these days seems to want to hang that handle on every little situation, but I feel in regards to alcoholism and the disease perception of it, it is important for us to understand the disease. BIM doesn't identify "codependency" as such but clearly identifies how we are not honoring God with our behavior, particularly in light of emotional and verbal abuse issues. In your own case, you have set a boundary that your husband may no longer treat you in the manner that he has been doing. You still have hope, as we all do that God can knit the dry bones of our marriages back to life. Kareena is becoming increasingly aware that this is not how God planned for her marriage to be and is reaching out for support, prayers and community with others who have/are experiencing the same difficulties. Since we cannot change our husbands, we can only change ourselves and that means understanding our own behavior as well, knowing that Satan loves to instill fear and havoc into our lives. She hasn't had the opportunity yet to read POPW and may not even understand the authority God has given us over all power of the enemy. To empathize with her pain and to encourage her to grow in Him as we are growing in Him, to search her own heart and see what God would have her change, to look at the tools available for her own growth and how she can protect herself and her child is important. To understand 1 Cor 13 and see what love is and is not and how she can refocus her attention away from the problem to praising God for His love, how she can set limits in how she will be treated in ways honoring to the Father, to see his answers to prayers as we have seen them...that was my purpose for my post and I still stand by it.<P>I am glad you have joined us. I will add you and your marriage to my prayer list. We will watch together how God works it all out for good.

His snide comment after my guests left was in response to my exprssion of gratitude and affirmation for his polite behavior during the evening. At least he seemed to like my friends, if not me.<P>As for the drinking, he never gets drunk, but drinks several beers every evening. I have never ever seen him go a single day without drinking. While we were dating he never let me see him drink except when at a restaurant. He would hide it by drinking in the shower or late at night. Not sure if that is alcoholism or not. His potential is there and he could develop very good personality if he would take responsibility for his feelings instead of using beer to cope. <P>I know I have learned a lot by struggling in this marriage and have become a much better wife than I was in my first marriage to a wonderful Christian man. This is a penance for messing that one up.

Karenna,<P>You have expressed being disappointed in your h after the dinner party, but I am concerned with your comment <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>This is a penance for messing that one up. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Do you really feel that way or is that your disappointment speaking.<P>God would have us look at our present circumstances as a new opportunity to live in obedience to Him and abide in His love. If you are to be successful in your relationship with your h you would be better looking at him as an opportunity not a penance.<P>God forgives and forgets and affords us a new chances to show His love to others. Let this marriage be one where you show God's love and seek to have Christ as the center. Yes, we do reap what we sow but God takes our lives and turns even our mistakes into something that can bring Him glory.<P>Father, encourage Karenna this day. Give her a vision for her marriage. May your grace be seen through her love for You and bless her husband as he observes her walk of faith. Protect her little girl and put on "holy blinders" that she not see or hear things that would cause her any negative influence. May this family be sheltered in Your love and protection. IJN<P>Karenna, I do encourage you to get the book POPW. The first chapter, "His Wife" had been invaluable to all of us on this forum. It has shown us how we must change first in order to pray for our h's according to God's plan for them.<P>Blessings, Taj<P>------------------<BR>"Perfect love casts out fear" I John 4:18