Question? Why do some very capable and talented men consistently find doors of opportunity and acceptance closed to them?<P>Answer: His perception of himself, poor self-image, doubts about his value. Expecting to be rejected he will be!<P>My question is which comes first, the poor self-image or the sin? I truly believe it is the poor self-image. Truly we are all born with a sinful nature, but the environment we grow up in has such an impact on who we are and what our expectations are of ourselves.<P>This goes for not just our husbands but for ourselves as well.<P>The problems our h's face are as varied as the people on this forum:<BR>....alcholism<BR>....pornography<BR>....perversion<BR>....infidelity<BR>....rejecting God<P>In many cases they are selfish, self-centered, abusive, and the list goes on. They are exactly what they see themselves to be. I would venture to say there are few self-confident men on this forum. Oh, they may be braggarts and think they are real "macho", but self-confidence, I doubt it.<P>Our h's need to begin to see themselves as loved of God. Jesus died for them, how much more could someone love?<P>Two quotes from Stormie:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>When our self-image gets so wrapped up in God that we lose ourselves in the process, we're free.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Your husband will never see who he really is until he sees who God really is.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Father, show our husbands their real identity. Free them from the bondage of their poor self-image. Reveal to them that they are much-loved sons. May they recognize the unique qualities You have placed in each one of them. Quiet the voices that tell them otherwise and give them ears to hear Your voice telling them that it will not be their perfection that gets them through life successfully, it will be Yours. Help all of us as wives to be mirrors to reflect Your love to our husbands that they may see truth. IJN

Lord, let our husbands see themselves through your loving eyes. Let them see themselves as your children, your chosen ones. Soften their hearts to you and to those that love them, let them know who they really are because of your love.<P>Amen<P>lizzie

"Expecting to be rejected, they will be."<P>Boy, that thought really clicks with me as I think not only of my situation, but some of yours as well. My husband's behavior just flows along this line, his verbalized fear of abandonment and then displaying behavior that pushes everyone away. He has a nonchalant understanding of grace, it seems. <P>I do see God increasing opportunities for these things to be changed, the men's retreat was powerful as I look at the topics they covered. Hubby's overiding nastiness the day after and the fear that he might have to change, the striking out at me because of that fear, wanting to turn it into my problem instead of his, the responsibility I have to keep the issues such so that he cannot dump them on me and exonerate himself. <P>Loving him enough to let him sit in the pig sty of his life as the father of the prodigal son did. Honoring him with my words and actions, so that He has to deal with the Father...<P>Some of you had husbands that were deacons or in leadership positions within the body during affairs. I imagine the false sense of righteousness and guilt combined must have been incredible for them. How true Romans 7 must have been for them. <P>[24] What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? [25] Thanks be to God--through Jesus Christ our Lord!<BR> So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.<P>I think the Father has been working on me in this area. In some ways, Adam's sin was that he chose his wife ergo Satan over the Lord when he took a bite of that apple. He lost sight of who he was in the Lord's eyes. Lost confidence in the position he held, as sin has a habit of doing, dangling the carrot in front of all of us, appearing to be offering us more. Eve was his helper in the garden, and steered him wrong...in his mind, abolishing his guilt for dropping the ball handed to him.<P>RO 8:18 I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. [19] The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed. [20] For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope [21] that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.<P>I look at this verse in a new way now, especially in light of this chapter. The Father subjects our husbands (and us for that matter) to frustrations in hope that we will be liberated as we understand who we are in Christ. As long as my husband clings to the "what about me" mentality in our journey, he misses the blessing of seeing his full potential as heir to the throne. <P>I think maybe many of us are more like the son that stayed home in the prodigal son parable, grumbling 'cause we did the right thing and it seems like the messages of Harley and others negates the bad things our husbands did, and we are "supposed" to Plan A them to death, etc.....<P>Seems like God always brings me back around to working on the logs in my own eye. <P>Father, help my husband to realize his value with you, to recognize the fullness of grace that abounds for him because of the cross, to recognize the unique talents,gifts and qualities that you have given to him and that in You he is complete and lacks nothing. Block all thoughts and voices that tell him to expect rejection and abandonment and fill him with Your hope and confidence, the contentment that comes from knowing who he is in You. <P>"Free him from the self-focus and self-consciousness that can imprison his soul. Help him to see who You really are so he'll know who he really is" IJN Amen

I remember a post of cozy's a few days back which stated her h felt that people didn't change. Such deception the enemy puts into our minds. He would rather make us totally ineffective by making us feel we are worthless and unable to be any better then we are.<P>Hogwash!!!!!!!!<P>Truly we are in bondage to a lie if we feel that we are the victim. God doesn't make junk! He created healthy, intelligent, sensitive beings who through sin become victim to their environment, family history, parenting, and hurts. Yes, we are today a sum of all our yesterday's, but God takes what the devil means for destruction and turns it into blessing.<P>Do I believe this? Yes, with all of my heart.<P>We are in a spiritual battle.......if we look to the ways of this world we have nothing but hopelessness. Our hope is built on nothing less then Jesus and His Righteousness.<P>God, restore that which the locusts have eaten in regards to our husbands, families and marriages. IJN

Amen Taj! God doesn't make junk... He isn't finished with us yet, We are being refined by the fire of the tribulations we are going through... And Who are we in Jesus?<P>I am a child of the 'Everlasting Father'!<P><B>I am Accepted in Christ </B><P>John 1:12 I am Gods child<P>John 15:15 I am Christs friend<P>Romans 5:1 I am justified in Christ<P>1 Corinthians 5:17 I am united with the Lord and one with him in spirit<P>1 Corinthians 6:20 I have been bought with a price, I belong to God<P>1 Corinthians 12:27 I am a member of Christs body<P>Ephesians 1:1 I am a saint<P>Ephesians 1:5 I have been adopted as Gods child<P>Ephisians 2:19 I have direct access to God through the Holy Spirit<P>Colossians 1:14 I have been redeemed and forgiven of all my sins<P>Colossians 2:10 I am complete in Christ<P><B> I am Secure in Christ </B><P>Romans 6:1,2 I am free forever from condemnation<P>Romans 3:28 I am assured that all things work together for good<P>Romans 8:33,34 I cannot be separated from the love of God<P>2 Corinthians 1:21 I have been established, annointed and sealed by God<P>Colossians 3:3 I am hidden with Christ in God<P>Philippians 1:6 I am confident that the good work God has begun in me will be perfected<P>Philippians 3:20 I am a citizen of heaven<P>2 Timothy 1:7 I have not been given a spirit of fear, but of power, love and a sound mind<P>Hebrews 1:16 I can find grace and mercy in time of need<P>1 John 5:16 I am born of God and the evil one cannot touch me<P><B> I am Significant in Christ </B><P>Matthew 5:13,14 I am the salt and light of the earth<P>John 15:1,5 I am a branch of the true vine, a channel of His life<P>John 15:16 I have been chosen and appointed to bear fruit<P>Acts 1:8 I am a personal witness of Christs<P>1Corinthians 3:16 I am Gods temple<P>2 Corinthians 5: 17-20 I am a minister of reconciliation<P>2 Corinthians 6:1 I am Gods co-worker<P>Ephesians 2:6 I am seated with Christ in the heavenly realms<P>Ephesians 2:10 I am Gods workmanship<P>Ephesians 3:12 I may approch God with freedom and confidence<P>Phillipians 4:13 I can do all thing through Christ who strengthens me<P><I> taken from 'Living Free in Christ', by Neil Anderson</I><P>I just wanted to share those <P>As for my H, he has such an identity crisis that his roles he plays on the computer games he identifys with more than his own real self <I don't know if he's ever developed his character enough to have a real one, but his puter characters he has put much time and effort into> I think fear takes him outta life... He said one time "I really thought Jesus would come back before I ever had to really 'do' anything, now look where I am... <P>I truely believe that finding out who they are in Christ will set them free!<P>AND, I want to share a praise, that on his own, my H went to a Wed. eve. bible study last week... God is still working!!!!<P>I pray Lord right now that every man that this forum prays for would be renewed in his <BR>self image by your truth, and that all other manners of worth that the earth has to offer is cast aside as rubbish. Jesus minister to their minds that you are creating them to be what you disigned them to be, perfect, bearing fruit, glorifiing to you in all things... Amen<P>------------------<BR>Jesus is the only answer!<BR>His blessings, Cozy<p>[This message has been edited by used2Bcozy (edited April 08, 2000).]

Cozy, well said Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I pray in agreement with you.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>He said one time "I really thought Jesus would come back before I ever had to really 'do' anything, now look where I am...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Wow, what insight he had Cozy! Me thinks that God is working on him! And for him to initiate going to a bible study, praise You Father! <P>And thank you for typing out the Neil Anderson stuff. I have been meaning to do it and just hadn't, partly because I wasn't sure how hubby would respond to it and I felt it was important enough that I didn't want him to discount it.<P>I think now though if I print it out, he will keep it and look at it. I think that reading him some of the excerpts of our dialog yesterday (much of which was my own script which he didn't know about) showed him that we truly do desire God's will in our lives, restoration of our marriages and that this forum wasn't just a husband bashing place. I am grateful for that.<P>Father, we are grateful for the work You have begun in our husbands and will continue to do until the day of completion. We are thankful for the convictions You have placed in Cozy's husband's heart and for his obedience to seek Your face through this bible study that he is attending. <P>Use this for Your glory Father, knowing You have a purpose for all things and that Your will prevails. Open the eyes of his heart that he may enlightened, open his mind and remove all blinders that confine him from seeing Your truth and plan for his life. <P>Open his ears and allow him to hear Your Word in a fresh new way. Remove the scabs of lies and deceit and let the cleansing blood of Jesus flow forth to heal all wounds. Surround him with a loving caring body to both nurture and to love him, to exhort him and to encourage him to grow and to be reunited with his wife.<P>Show him who he is in You Father, give him a thirst for the things of You, let his computer time be redirected to searching out Your truth, let him become intensely aware of the falseness of the personalities he has developed on the puter and encourage him to put on the personality that You have designed for him as Your son. Develop his character Father, give him a desire to be like You, his father and model of all that is good.<P>Give Cozy wisdom and insight in how to speak the truth in love, how to be a stepping stone in his growth rather than a stumbling block. Show her how and when to let go and get out of Your way and when You want her to speak. Show her what boundaries need to be in place to honor herself and her husband and the boldness to implement them in an honoring way.<P>We are so grateful that we do not have to do these things alone, Father, that You are always with us and never abandon us. We praise You, teach us! IJN, Amen.<P>Also...<P>As I have been praying this morning and thinking about all the things the Lord has revealed this weekend, I am increasingly aware of the low self-image my husband does have and how his behavior, control efforts, demands, etc. are a reaction to this low self-image.<P>Pastor has repeatedly said that the nudism demand was not a need and to discover the need behind this. Hubby, in so many words, yesterday did acknowledge this as a possibility...Halleluah! In trying then to assertain what the hidden needs behind it are (though he stills claims it is a need)some of the things he came up with follow the low self-image thing:<BR><OL TYPE=A><BR><LI>He wants to know that I consider his needs important.<BR><LI>He wants to feel that he is validated.(And compliance does this for him)<BR><LI>He wants to feel that I deem him worthy of such a sacrifice.<BR></OL><P>Pray with me to find ways to convey these things to him in a far more tangible way than "tripping through the tulips" nude. I did share with him more about how I felt about nudism in light of his demands for strict obedience, how I felt it interfered with what kingdom work God had planned for us as a couple, how it placed me in the path for temptation (being in a resort with more attractive bodies in light of hubby's obesity) and how I felt violated by him being placed in a situation where others could see what I feel God has saved for just him. How I felt that our oneness and any attempts to bond as one needed to begin with being one in the Spirit with God in the middle or at the heart of our marriage and how I felt that this took precedence over that and for that I rebel greatly.<P>God really protected the conversation as he gets angry at these comments and I just kept praying as I talked, binding the evil one from his mind and his emotions. At the same time though, I have to respond to his needs, to find ways in addition to praying to make him aware that I value him, etc. Insights would be appreciated.<p>[This message has been edited by SueB (edited April 09, 2000).]

I agree SueB, that finding reasons to admire and respect our H's is sometimes a most difficult thing! I am being really conscious of everything my H does, and when he does something good... "Go's on his own to a bible study, contributes to his family in any positive way, generates unity in this home, or anything good", I make a BIG deal out of it.... I have talked much to him about this bible study...listening and encouraging, telling him how blessed it is to me that he is pursueing this on his own..<P>Last week I left a note to him that I appreciated his defending me to his mother, who thinks I shouldn't homeschool the girls and that they should be in public schools.. H hasn't defended me in such a long time that this was a monumental thing!!! I will thank him for this many times in the next week.... <P>I think that we may have to dig, but Im sure every H here has a few good characteristics, or talents... I am finding myself majoring on minor things, but if it motivates H to greater things, so be it... I remember a time when I couldn't see anything good in H because I was looking so hard for what I wanted, and my attitude helped push him to OW, I have learned much through this ordeal, and I think that this is the "All things" that God promised us He would turn to good even from bad circumstanses/situations! My growth is apparent to all around me, I am just blessed!!!!!!<P>So magnify it!!! If they pick up their socks, write them a note saying "Thank you so much for helping me out around the house!", I have found that even these things noticed have brought out more positive actions..... Just my 2c worth..<P>------------------<BR>Jesus is the only answer!<BR>His blessings, Cozy

Excuse me. But didn't God make clothing for Adam and Eve? Isn't modesty a biblical virtue? And isn't a Demand for Strict Obedience the antithesis of loving leadership exemplified by Jesus Christ? I have a lot of great information on this but have no time this morning. I just have a really hard time imagining trying to respect in your situation. But that's okay. I have a hard time imagining showing respect in mine too. And things are continually getting better!<P>Amen to ALL your prayers! Gotta run.<P>------------------<BR>A true friend is one who not only is willing to love us the way we are, but is able to leave us better than he found us.

The issue is not whether we agree with an individual's belief system. The issue in light of it, accepting an individual where they are at, as Christ does us and loves us anyway, and finding ways to affirm them and to encourage them to become what God has for them to become. It is balancing my own growth in the Lord and what He is teaching me through adversity, learning to be the woman He wants me to be that interferes with His plan for our marriage, etc...<P>I have been the femi-nazi route in my lifetime and it is not what God wants from me. There is a fine line between assertivesness and setting healthy boundaries. The freedom in Christ is the right to give up rights, so to speak. It is learning to trust Him for the things that we do not know.<P>I don't know if that makes sense or not.

Sue,<BR>Really haven't been in on much of this discussion but what you said absolutely makes sense. My understanding is also that freedom in Christ means exactly that, the freedom to give up our rights and to take on Jesus will for our life trusting Him as you say to know what is best for us. As I said to my daughter today. (She was asking me some general broad questions about sex, she is not ready for specifics) God does not forbid anything. However, and it is a big however, some things and choices are better than others. He gives us guidelines and tells us what He wants for our lives. And it is learning to trust Him and knowing that His way is the better way and that He wants nothing less then the best for us.<BR>If we are a child of God He leads us. God doesn't give us a road map, He gives us Himself. And the comfort is in the fact that even if we make a bad choice He weaves this into His loving plan for us. That was from the sermon I listened to this morning. I wrote more about it on my thread. <BR>Another line that my pastor says is. God made us. He is the creator and He knows what is best. For example a car manufacturer will advise you to use only oil in the engine. It is your choice what to use. So if you choose to use chocolate instead of oil the engine may not run as efficiently it is designed to do. In fact it will probably gum it up and render it unuseable. It is the same with us. God designed us. He tells us how best to grow and mature, but we have the choice as to how to do that. Some choices are better than others. God's way is perfect. Now if I could only learn that lesson once. I guess I am a slow learner. And that too is the beauty of God, He meets me where each of us are and takes us from there. But we can not stay where we are and go with God too. (from experiencing God Binble study).<P><BR>Father, show us your devine way and teach us to trust that Your way is the best, Lord, meet each of us where we are today. Take us to where you want us to be. Make us the adopted daughters you want us to be then make us the wives, mothers, friends and servants of others that You want us to be. Cause us to seek Your best, not the world's inticing tidbits. Lord Your best no matter what the cost is more valuable than all the treasure this world says it has to offer. Jesus touch each sister here where she is at and cause us each to seek You in Your Holy throne room and to serve each other. In Jesus name, Amen.

Well said Sister!<P>The other part of Experiencing God that always comes back to me is that God doesn't give us a road map. That He told Moses "Go" and Moses went. He didn't have a discussion about "where tell me what the plan is and I will decide if it is good enough...." <P>That is the trust part, knowing God has our best at heart and being willing to go forward by faith, developing our listening skills so we can hear when He says "Turn here", or "go there". <P>The issue isn't whether nudism is right or wrong in God's eyes. The issue is who is the god in one's life. I have had some indepth communication with some pretty godly Christians who also happen to be nudists. <BR>Their perception of it is that they have the freedom in Christ to be one with Him in worship as He made them, that the idea of clothing was not God's idea but Adam and Eve's after the fall when being exposed to their sin and the choice they had made to disobey God.<P>That sense of overriding vunerability before the Lord who sees all and knows the heart. As I reread that chapter in Genesis, God was as consistent then as He is today. They sin, He disciplines. They try to cover up their iniquity with leaves, He slays an animal and sheds blood that they might be clothed better; always as you said from the sermon, weaving the bad choice into His loving plan for them.<P>Understanding from the beginning, He already had a plan to reconcile us back to himself. He is such an awesome God! I desire for my husband to be the servant/leader God designed for him to be. I desire for him to place God in the heart of our marriage, to seek His face in every issue of our life, to pray together, to ask for wisdom and on and on. <P>I want our oneness to begin here and then as the Lord leads, all other issues in light of Him will be made clear. It is funny in some ways, the irony of it all. We have all claimed the verse in Malachi 2 about God hating divorce. Here is the whole section surrounding it:<P>MAL 2:13 Another thing you do: You flood the LORD's altar with tears. You weep and wail because he no longer pays attention to your offerings or accepts them with pleasure from your hands. <P>[14] You ask, "Why?" It is because the LORD is acting as the witness between you and the wife of your youth, because you have broken faith with her, though she is your partner, the wife of your marriage covenant.<P>MAL 2:15 Has not the LORD made them one? In flesh and spirit they are his. And why one? Because he was seeking godly offspring. So guard yourself in your spirit, and do not break faith with the wife of your youth.<P>MAL 2:16 "I hate divorce," says the LORD God of Israel, "and I hate a man's covering himself with violence as well as with his garment," says the LORD Almighty.<P>So guard yourself in your spirit, and do not break faith.<P>My understanding of the whole issue at this time was a group of people who were nominal believers, talking the talk, so to speak, and not walking the walk; oh, they made their sacrifices and all, but their hearts were still hardened to the things of God, they continued to fit in God as it was convenient to them, not putting him first.<P>The wedding tradition at this time was such that the husband would take off his outer garment, cloak or whatever it was called and put it around the wife as a sign that his covenant with her was to provide and protect her and keep her safe always. Then the guy, when he got tired of her would divorce her, so the act of putting the garment around her was as phony as his committment to the woman.<P>And this was what God was talking about, the breaking of the covenant that what He put together, man put asunder. So, someone in my husband's mindset at this time, would grab the verse that God hates garments that you put on and rationalize this as God hates clothing and nudism is the way to go...missing the sin of the covenant and that his faith at this point is in skin and not the Lord who made the skin, that this "skin" issue is more important that the covenant he made before the Lord to protect and provide.<P>This is why I say the issue isn't nudism itself. The issue is trying to be the woman that God wants me to be, honoring and respecting my husband and praying that his own growth is such that he can see how God is not first in his life or in our marriage. <P>How he is using God much in the same way as those in Malachi, wanting God to provide comfort and to clear the way for those things he desires rather than surrendering his will to the things God desires. In assessing values that are held dear, at this point, my husband's greatest value is his happiness and I should be doing all that makes him happy. His prayers at the dinner table are "bless me". <P>These are the "what is" of our life right now. I cling to the verse that says, "many are the plans of man, but it is God's will that prevails". We will have victory in this, the timing of it all is not mine, but since it hasn't happened as yet, I can only continue to seek His face, learn what it is that He has for me to learn, change what He would have me change, i.e. learn those healthy boundaries that increase honor and respect on one hand and discomfort for my husband on the other, so that God brings him to his knees.<P>My comments to you Karenna may have sounded curt and for that I apologize. That wasn't my intention. You have your own hard journey with a husband who doesn't seem to know how to connect with you, who has resorted to violence. I guess that is why I really believe that God is using this baby to bring unity and healing to your marriage. <P>That process of you releasing your life to the Father and learning what is is He wants you to learn, etc. to look seriously at what He wants you to change while He is working on your husband fills the time while He is working. Don't know if that makes sense.<P>Father, continue to teach us, rebuke us and mold us as the potter molds the clay. Father, a clay piece can be made into many things, some fine goblets, some a simple water carrier. All though are necessary. Help us as women to see our usefulness as Your servants and show us how to best meet the needs of our husbands with Your example at the top of our hearts.<P>Give us Your wisdom and help us to know the difference between Your desires and our own selfish desires. Teach us to hear the small quiet voice within us to guide us and to bring Your Word to our minds to keep us on the path that You would have us on. IJN, Amen.<P>

Taj,<BR>I'm praying for your 6pm counseling this evening, that there will be the spirit of openness and healing,that God wll use this time to bless your marriage.<BR>IJN<P>You are so fortunate to have the opportunity to work on your marriage.<P>Jn

JN, Thanks for the reminder post to pray for Taj's counseling session. Taj, you're in my prayers!

WOW!!!! <P>Joynicole, thanks for remembering. What a blessing to know you guys remember without my even needing to post!<P>I am blessed!<P>I'll let you know what happens. I am a little anxious because I think she is going to put a bit more pressure on my H. <P>Taj

I was thinking about this 'self-image' as I watched H this last week when he watched the girls... H acts like he is the cream of the crop, boasts about all the things he has done when he talks on-line and makes like he is so great.... He has this phoney belief system about himself, and I seldom see him take a good look and assess himself correctly.<P>This is a 30 year old man/child who has never held a job, is living at his grandmothers and has NOTHING. Not even a vehical to get him anywhere! He sits on his rump and e-mails out resume's and wonders why no-one wants him? His granny bought him clothes cuz his fell apart, His OW bought him alot of things <a 5500.00 drum set> that he hangs onto like 'he' has gained so much, and he even has to ask me for money to buy groceries while at his grandmas...<P>I suppose that is part of why H hides in puter land, who would want to see yourself in the worlds eyes when ya look like that??! I hope the Lord really opens my H's eyes up to who he is 'in Christ' so that he can start moving forward.... I am getting tired of this person who is my H. I am afraid I have been voiceing my thinking out loud a bit lately and H is probably angry with me... I just cant let things slide and tell him he's ok anymore, hes not!<P>I really need God not to work on my H's self image, but H's 'Christ-in him-image'! H seems to have a warped veiw of 'Self' and cares way too much about 'Self' to the point where his self is getting him into trouble and keeping him from many good things!<P>I guess we had a bad visit this week, he left mad, trying to punish me by the silent treatment and make me feel bad, because I voiced my opinion a few times when he was here and he didn't like it. I'm tired of just letting him think everything thing is OK and that He is so perfect and just about everything.<P>Blah <P>Oh, SueB what is the book on 'Healthy Boundaries'? I want to read it badly!<P>------------------<BR>Jesus is the only answer!<BR>His blessings, Cozy

Boundaries in Marriage by Townsend & Cloud

Thanks SueB..<P>I don't know if I did right with H this week, but I spoke the truth, and Im tired of holding my feelings concerning his actions. Maybe I should shut up, but someone has got to say something, and I can't live with a man who wont even 'do' anything to make things better... I've done 'it all' too long and I'm so tired I want to be taken care of for a while!<P><P>------------------<BR>Jesus is the only answer!<BR>His blessings, Cozy

You know, we strive to be honoring, etc. but even scripture talks about the sluggard who doesn't lift a hand and who is even too weary to lift a hand to his own mouth to feed himself and Paul seemed pretty adamant that if a man didn't work, he didn't eat. <P>What I am learning through the boundaries book is that speaking the truth isn't necessarily wrong but how we say it is what we have to be cautious about. I think of that old saying, "why buy the cow when the milk is free". <P>What incentive does your husband have for going to work when everyone bails him out? If our job in honoring our husbands and helping them to be the best they can be, their best isn't being a manipulative bum. <P>I know that when my alcoholic was alive, he ranted one night about what did I do with his money, because he was very faithful about bringing that check home to me. When I lovingly told him that x number of dollars went to the booze bill and the rest went to attorneys and the courts for his DWIs, he realized that he was not supporting this family. It was a big shock to him. When he landed in jail for a dwi, I let him sit there over the weekend since I didn't have bail money. Hard thing to do but I know it was necessary and I believe more honoring to him.<P>If we always bail them out, then the message they get is that they can't handle anything and I think that strips them of dignity. It gives them the message that they are not capable if we fix all their problems. <P>I guess one of the biggest insights I got from the book was in regards to values and how "happiness" was not a value and how those who thought that the world owed them and that they should be happy all the time had some rude awakenings coming their way as that view is unrealistic.<P>I really am trying to redefine things in terms of honoring, since the Lord tells us to respect our husbands. To be in high esteem for the position God has placed them in and the responsibility given to them...if I usurp his authority then I am not honoring him. <BR>Your hubby left you and so you need to do what you can to care for your family, but you are not responsible for the fixes he gets himself into, and I guess I am wondering if it is honoring for you to give him money to get him out of the fixes. If his puter breaks down and it needs parts....then I guess he will do something to get it fixed or go without. I guess since he is living this double life on the puter, that the Lord may have allowed the puter to break...<P>I really am finding myself being more observant to how God's hand might be working all around me and how my interference delays the Lord's plan for my husband's life. Working harder on getting that log out of my own eye.<P>Father, we thank You for having everything planned in our lives and that You know the ups and downs that will come our way. Help us to retrain our eyesight on Your best for us and give us wisdom on how to honor our husbands in light of the dishonoring choices they make. Help us to focus on how Jesus spoke the truth in love, how He didn't side-step issues to keep the peace or to avoid the wrath of an individual, but kept plodding forward that You will be done, in spite of the hatred and wrath given to Him.<P>Gird Cozy with Your strength Father and let her be a light of truth for her husband. Let her children see her standing for the truth and understand the importance of honor. Let her be an example of honor so that her children will not regard their father's present behavior as normal and thus affect their own relationships in the future.IJN, Amen.<P>