Last night when my kids called from the OW's house to say goodnight, I reminded my 13 year old that I wasn't going to be home right when my H dropped them off, and asked him to let his father that, since I had forgotten to tell him. Unfortunately, he forgot, and since my H had stopped carrying the house key, unbeknownst to me, they couldn't get in. My H was mad at me because "I put the kids in the middle". To me, putting the kids in the middle would be something like asking them to ask why their dad hadn't paid child support or something. I don't see how asking him to tell his father I would be late is no different than calling someone up and leaving a message saying you will be late with their teenager - maybe a risky thing to do, given the typical teenager's memory, but surely not emotionally damaging. <P>He also wants me to tell the kids that it is fine to bring home any clothes "he" buys them, and that I won't be upset. How can I tell them that I don't mind seeing them in the clothes that his OW buys for them, when they could see right through that lie. Why can't he keep the clothes there, except in an emergency? I don't even know why he is buying them clothes - I sent plenty with them, but perhaps the OW doesn't approve since they aren't brand new.<P>The little one apparently had a temper tantrum at dinner, and my son said that his father did not even try to calm her down.

Nellie1,<P>More STUFF to deal with.AUUUUGGGGGGHHH!<P>I just really think neither your H nor the OW is going to be able to manage this over the long haul. He already can't function when things aren't "just so" - like the stupid deal about the key. Well, what if you had been in a car wreck or something??? Would it still be your fault because you weren't there on time and HE decided to no longer have a key to the house???<P>Doesn't he realize that with all those kids, the only thing that is predictable is that things will NEVER be predictable?????<P>Roll Me Away<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Roll Me Away (edited November 28, 1999).]

geez, nellie. how weird to see your H turn into a blithering idiot.<BR>i don't think you put your son "in the middle" at all (i had a stepmother who would rant and rave about how my parents did that to me, and i thought she was ridiculous--she had even left her own children years before over the same issue, and now they wont even see her. weird)<BR>anyway, RMA is right, i dont think things can go on like this for long. that OW must be something else...<BR>i'm really sorry.<P>------------------<BR> <A HREF="http://www.alladvantage.com<BR>ID#" TARGET=_blank>www.alladvantage.com<BR>ID#</A> atp-113<P>

Roll Me Away,<P>No, he doesn't seem to realize that emergencies happen - I can't imagine why, especially after I spent two days desperately trying to track down my sister when her son was dying a year and a half ago.<P>He hasn't given me his work number or even address. He didn't tell me he had changed jobs for two days after he did, and it was a couple of days after that before he gave me any health insurance info. <P>His excuse when his not telling me something results in a problem is that he had no idea that that piece of information would be necessary.

Nellie1,<P>Aw, another "runaway H"! ;(<P>So, what would you do in a real emergency with one of the kids???<P>Roll Me Away<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

love WAS blind,<P>We must have been posting simultaneously. I wish I thought things couldn't go on like this for long. It just seems to be getting worse and worse, and it has been going on for nine months now. <BR>

Roll Me Away,<P>I guess in an emergency, if I couldn't reach him, he wouldn't find out. He went away on vacation last month and I had no idea where - it occurred to me that if something happened to me while he was gone, the kids could end up in temporary foster care. <P>A friend of mine, who is one of the biggest conflict avoider I have ever met, and very gentle, actually got so angry at that that she told me she would like to wring his neck.<BR>

Nellie, <P>I am to the point with my ex-H that I feel if I can't reach him, it would be his problem. My 7 year old had a concussion a few weeks ago, when I got in touch with him he was going somewhere with OW, and just kept right on going! They don't care!<P>AD

Nellie1,<P>God forbid anything bad ever happen to you. But, your H is crazy to keep his whereabouts so secret. Out of courtesy, he could tell a relative or a mutual friend where he is and where he goes when on trips, and then tell you to call that person for any emergencies. That way he could still be in touch. But, I wonder if he really wants to be "out of touch". If so, all the more reason to think things with him and OW and all those kids won't pan out in the long run.<P>Sorry for your frustration and his immaturity!<P>Roll Me Away<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

already divorced,<BR>How would your H have reacted to his child having a concussion before the affair? Fortunately none of my kids have been injured since my H left, but he cares so little about what happens to them - when our oldest's wallet was stolen, he was extremely annoyed that I asked him to wait a couple of minutes so I could talk to him about it. <P>When the therapist suggested that he call them every day, he said, "They are welcome to email me whenever they want". The therapist looked horrified.<P>Roll Me Away,<BR>I think he does want to stay out of touch. He avoids talking to me if at all possible, especially about anything important. He actually had his lawyer send me a letter about the kids rather than talk to me. His lawyer said he was going to talk to him and tell him that he needed to talk to me - maybe that is why he actually did at least talk tonight.

Nellie,<P>Before the divorce, he would have been right by his side at the emergency room. He was always a caring father until the affair. He tries to act like he still is, but actions speak louder than words! According to "Private Lies", when they are involved in an affair, it means more to them than their children. I believe it!<P>AD<P>

Another thing, Nellie, it would be a good idea to keep a journal concerning all of his actions toward the kids. My counselor suggested this to me, she said it would be useful if anything came up in court concerning custody or visitation.<P>AD

Nellie--<P>Yes, teenagers do sometimes forget to relay messages. In the spirit of co-parenting, simply apologize to your H (he didn't know you were going to be late and his frustration is understandable). Writing a sealed note for the children to hand to him may assist in the future if you need to relay important information like changes in scheduling.<P>He really must give you addresses and phone numbers where he lives and works, and always a phone number to reach him in case of emergency if he's going to be on vacation for any extended period. If he won't cooperate, then however unfortunate it is, it's up to you to calmly convince him that this is reasonable and necessary. Sounds to me that your H is concerned that your contact will be intrusive; assure him that it will not be, then prove it to him. Relating this through the attorneys initially may be wise.<P>What difference does it make who buys the children clothing? I would consider that welcome help from any area.<P>There will be differences in parenting styles...while you may handle your little one's temper tantrums in a different way, it is best not to force your own style on H and OW. You could perhaps mention your concern in a sealed note and ask H to respond with how tantrums are dealt with in his home merely so you will be informed.<P>Feel free to vent away here in this forum (it is lifesaver to me at times); but I feel there's no reason to allow the children to sense your disapproval of H or OW's techniques. Again, in the spirit of co-parenting, equal respect for the decision-making adults must be consistently shown in order to make it work. "....really? Well, in THIS house, we handle that situation THIS way...." If you feel strongly enough that a change must occur, deal with it away from the children.

Nellie, Your post had me screaming inside because my man-child husband does the same kinds of insensitive, immature things.<BR>The poster "Luck" dispensed good advice BUT it would be practically impossible for you to reason with this husband of yours. Why? Because he is immature, selfish and unreasonable. How do I know this? Because my husband is exactly like yours! I have tried everything sane, logical and rational in order to deal with him, all to no avail.<BR>The OW (who is seventeen yrs. younger than he) bought my kids oodles of books from her child's book fair recently. She also bought me 12 yr. old son three pairs of scrubs, too, you know those scrubs they wear in hospitals? She's a nurse. She bought my daughter a diary recently, my son something else, she cooked and BOUGHT the entire thanksgiving dinner at the husband's apartment and served it, too. Keep in mind, Nellie, she has only met my kids once before this!! They had nothng to say to her as they felt they didn't even know her. My husband, just like yours, is elusive and secretive. Tells me all the time that his beeper is broken. C'mon. He's a doctor. What if there was an emergency -- I think he thinks I am a moron and can't figure things out. The truth of the matter is, when some people are in the midst of affairs their consciences go down the toilet. They are no longer who they used to be. And you're right, Nellie, they absolutely, positively lose the capacity to love their children or anyone else besides themselves and their OP.

MovingOn,<BR>I agree that they are completely irrational, and in that state they can not be reasoned with. But how do you co-parent with someone who can not be reasoned with? Sometimes I wonder if his conscience is permanently dead. And do the OW's actually not realize that everyone is aware they are trying to buy the kids' affection?<BR>Lucks,<BR>Unfortunately, I can't convince him of anything. <BR>With respect to the clothing, from a logistical standpoint it is hard enough for me to sort out similar sized clothing for my 3 little girls, without having clothes appearing that I never saw before. My kids have certain colors/styles for their socks and underwear, which make them easier to sort, and I want to keep it that way. The main problem, of course, is that if my kids are wearing clothes from her, it is a constant reminder of her thrown in my face - and when she buys my 7 year old a low-cut shirt that makes her look like she is going on 16, that is even worse. It is bad enough that they bring home ridiculous toys that she buys them.<P>I don't have to disapprove of their "parenting techniques". My kids do enough of that themselves - my daughter once started crying and saying that her father had screamed at the little one to go to sleep, and when she made a suggestion, he yelled at her too. My 13 and 10 year old have "parenting techniques" of their own, which are usually similar to mine and their father's (not the alien-clone-father), and they don't hesistate to give me their opinion if they think either their father or I screw up, and I admire them for that.<P>already divorced,<BR>It is so hard to see a loving father completely disappear and turn into a complete jerk.

Nellie--<P>I DO understand your continuing stresses with your H and OW. Been there/done that!! My first H most certainly was in the Twilight Zone, with nothing and no one more important to him than OW, many times to the detriment of our daughters' feelings AND potential safety. (While on vacation with OW, her kids and our kids, he lost our youngest on a public beach for over an hour; beach police finally located her unharmed--YES, I screamed.)<P>Complete and total empathy aside, generalizations like this aren't healthy. I'm trying to suggest things that may HELP in your situation...things that either I've tried with success OR didn't try due to emotional duress but I knew I should for the sake of the kids. Positive and constructive advice, based on what you post.<P>I'm back to the sealed note suggestions. Fine if you want to continue with same colors/styles for the kids--send a note to that effect, requesting H and OW's ASSISTANCE since they are being so kind to provide clothes for the kids too. Emphasize politely how nice it is, and appreciated!!! You can draw more with honey, ya know. And after all, what IS the most important thing here. The children. Okay--OW has improper taste in purchasing clothing in a style too mature for a youngster. Sealed note!!--"Thanks for the thoughtful purchase...would you mind returning it for something more age appropriate? The shirt opening gapes too much and she is unable to wear it to school. Really appreciate your taking care of this!" Come on, Nellie...play Miss Manners. Think about it this way, niceness keeps you in the driver's seat!<P>

Nellie:<P>Your husband really seems like he's lost in anger and pain, lashing out at everything. His behaviors are not indicative of someone that's happy (at all). If anything, based on your posts it seems to be getting worse. I bet there's tremendous tension in the OW's household. Maybe something will give soon. It's hard to see how he could sustain an uncommitted relationship with this frame of mind. What woman would put up with it indefinitely?<P>I think you should continue to be cooperative and avoiding rocking the boat. This still seems to me like it's going to blow up on its own (or your husband will). Something's got to give.<P>My own jerk of a husband has gone AWOL and I'm concerned. We haven't heard from him since Tuesday. He had asked me for time to see the kids over the holiday weekend a couple of weeks ago, and I told him Sunday was good. He didn't show or call. No one knows what he did over the holiday (he wasn't with relatives). My son normally hears from him every day or two, never mind the fact that it was an important holiday. I'm biting my arm off to keep from calling, since I'm trying not to give any appearance of pursuing. I realize it's just probably another example of his insensitivity and lack of responsibility (the alien clone version), but I'm still worried.<P>I'll pray for us both.

Distressed,<BR>I am sorry to hear that your H seems to be missing. Could you call him using *67 just to see if he answers?<P>I think the OW is putting a lot of pressure on him to speed up the divorce - which seems odd, since hers took 2.5 years. I don't see how he can stand living there, or why her kids don't rebel - they don't seem to like him, or probably vice versa. But he just got a new job nearer to her house, and much farther from ours.<P>Lucks,<BR>Losing a child on a beach for an hour! That's horrible.