<B>Freeing your spouse by setting limits with Yourself.</B><P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>When you set limits on yourself, you create an environment in which your spouse can become free to choose and grow. T & C, p.67<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Think of all the energy we spend in trying to change our spouse, we nag, withdraw affection, control, blame or even comply to seek approval (or in my case to get him off my back, ouch- reality hurts) All of these efforts have been pretty futile for helping your mate to grow...yep, I said to grow...the helpmeet to support and to come along side and to subdue the earth. And our husbands certainly are not going to thank us for this effort of ours, however subtle it may be...smile.<P>On the contrary, our husbands are going to head for the hills at what they perceive is our attempts to control them. They are going to react in a variety of ways. A husband won't "experience his lonliness, need for love, gratitude, healthy guilt or the consequences of his actions" (p. 68) because he will be too consumed with staying free of our attempts to change him AND he may spend more effort retaliating, to show you how it feels to be him...(interesting thought)<P>The example used in this part deals with a man who did not want to grow up. (Could have been a fly on the wall at my house for this scenario)Life was supposed to be fun and good times, regular tasks, ie. home maintenance, was boring and responsibilities were to be avoided. He had career and financial problems.<P>Enter though, the heroine, the saintly wife who saddles up to the responsibilities (someone has to be grown up around here- ring a bell?) who has become highly skilled in the art of nagging with the perceived goal for H to feel guilty and then realizing his error, he would grow up and assume responsibility. She even used the "don't you realize what you are doing to me? After all I have done for you and this is how you treat me!" (Do I hear some of you groaning?) <P>So here is the insight stuff, H hears wife's words as similar to what his mother said to him and in reaction to his momentary feelings of guilt, he would then do whatever he could to escape his mom and now his wife. (You know they say a man marries a woman just like his mother and vise versa- we really need to take a close look at our in-laws and do some vital self-assessing) So the wife continues to protest, the husband continues to run, spend, etc. to avoid the smothering guilt he felt as a child....ergo, another circle going nowhere.<P>The wife cannot change him, only herself...so.. she sets limits on her attempts to control him. These are the things that she chooses to do (for those of you asking more questions about what these things look like)<BR>1. She became more loving and caring towards him.<BR>2. She worked hard at not being critical. ( Gosh, sounds like a Harley plan)<BR>3.She asked a financial counselor from their church to help.<BR>4. In the above process, the H lost some rights to his money for awhile until he proved himself more mature.<P>The H now free from the wife's nagging, which kept him replaying the tape from childhood, was able to experience his wife's love, became free to experience the pain of loss of money, and being with the financial counselor, who set up an accountability structure from which he couldn't run....and he began to grow up.<P>The point being that while we cannot make our spouses do anything (God's job) we can make it easier for them to experience the love and limits they need...notice the difference in your attitude as you read "experience the love and limits he needs" verses "suffer the consequences of his behavior". To me, the latter sounds like "hehehe, gotcha!" even though in reality the loved one <B>will</B> faces consequences for immaturity or whatever the issue going on in your house, the motive is enhanced by the purpose of love.<P>JAS 4:1 What causes fights and quarrels among you? Don't they come from your desires that battle within you? [2] You want something but don't get it. You kill and covet, but you cannot have what you want. You quarrel and fight. You do not have, because you do not ask God. [3] When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures.<P>Setting boundaries on our selves is much more than just getting what we want. Healthy relationships goes much deeper.<P>PR 10:12 Hatred stirs up dissension,<BR> but love covers over all wrongs.<P>1Pe 4:8 Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins.<P>This covering, as I understand it, is not shoving it under a rug and hoping it stays hidden. We need to love our selves and our spouses enough to set the necessary boundaries that promotes an environment in which the freedom to choose and to grow can blossom. It is love (God himself) that helps us have the strength to develop our own boundaries within marriage, first with our own character issues and secondly, in how we relate to our spouse's issues.<P>Are you ready?<P>Oh my Father, thank you for loving us beyond ourselves, for seeing the larger picture in our walk with you that allows us to stretch beyond what we think we can bear. We thank you that you clearly advise us to learn from discipline and that hardships are good for us to develop our character in the journey to become like you. Clear our minds to help us see what it is you would have each of us learn in this journey, the next steps in setting boundaries with our own character issues, which will then give us greater insight in how to love and live with our husband's issues. Give each of us a greater measure of boldness to take the steps necessary for some steps sound so scary to me. Fear does not come from you Father, so bind it away from us and fill us with the full measure of your love that we may be strengthened and encouraged with each baby step we take. All glory wil be yours Father, IJN, Amen.

Sue,<BR>My biggest difficulty is that any action I take seems to have little impact on him as far as causing him to consider to come back. But I think if it does, it is not something I will see immediately anyway. So the waiting game. Sometimes I get really tired of waiting.... It seems like I have been waiting forever, but when I am honest I know that during that forever I was still trying to do it myself.....humbled. <BR>But the idea is not to change them but to change ourselves. Then when we get back together I will be in a better position to be honest in dealing with my own feelings in dealing with him.<P>Father,<BR>Help me to change. Help me to set better limits on how I react to the circumstancs and to know that I cannot fix or change anythig (that is Your job, Lord). But by learning to set appropraite limits on myself I will better be able to deal with our relationship in the future honestly and with love.

Yikes SueB!!!! Did someone interview David when I wasn't looking? <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>The example used in this part deals with a man who did not want to grow up.......Enter though, the heroine, the saintly wife who saddles up to the responsibilities (someone has to be grown up around here- ring a bell?.......She even used the <B>"don't you realize what you are doing to me? After all I have done for you and this is how you treat me!"</B> (Do I hear some of you groaning?)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>YES I AM GROANING!!! I feel so bad. We had a "negative discussion" last night and those very words came out of my mouth along with tears. I am going to have to print this out and get it ingrained in my head, permanently etched in my heart. <P>I know better. Experience has shown me that when I respond to David with love, kindness, in a meek spirit, he softens and apologizes. But, no, I have to get all worked up about feeling neglected and alone, and cry, which he hates. I am going to have to go to the edge of my bed on my knees and ask the Lord for forgiveness..... <P>

And don't forget to ask David my friend...we are learning!!! Smile.

Just got off the phone with David, and yes, I apologized for getting upset, and asked forgiveness. I am humbled now..... The good news is he is getting more irritated by the minute with his situation in CA. PTL! <P>Now here's my latest boundary issue I need help with. It relates to the issue we're currently discussing. <P>When David has been drinking, he "forgets" to call home (he has been gone almost a month now.....) and when I do talk to him, he sometimes is apologetic, but also is rude, hateful, blames me for all our problems, etc. When this type of situation happens, I feel very hurt, neglected unloved, and unwanted by him. How do I keep from feeling this way? Its like he wants to hurt me and/or is testing me to see if he still can hurt me, bringing me to tears. <P>Most times I try to be kind and understanding, but have a hard time holding back my feelings of being unloved by him. It is so hard with our only contact being by phone as I can't see his face to understand more what's going on with him. Last night he didn't call. By 11 PM I was upset (it is PMS week - that is my excuse) so I called him. He was pretty much snockered by the way he was talking. He wasn't mad that I called or anything like that, but got angry when I told him how much it hurt me when he forgets to call home. He got mad, I cried. He got madder, I cried more. I hung up feeling rejected, unloved, uncared for, unwanted. He has told me in the past not to hold it all in, but to tell him how I feel. When I do tell him, he gets mad, manipulates the situation trying to place blame for his behavior on me (i.e., "well if you didn't b**** so much I wouldn't have to get drunk"). So what do I do, besides pray?<P>Lord, thank You for giving SueB the wisdom and desire to help us learn our boundaries as Christian wives. I praise You Lord, and give all glory to You for the work being done in our lives. Thank You Father for helping each of us learn to respond the way You wish for us to, guiding us, instilling Your word within us. Thank YOu Lord for reminding us constantly that we should think before responding "what would Jesus do?". IJN I pray, AMEN

AW, being patient. <P>This must be getting so tiring. The way I am patient is by acting. Pretend you don't care much that he drinks. Pretend that it doesn't matter when he doesn't call. Don't let him see that it gets to you emotionally. That plays right into his own agenda for setting you up as the bi**h. Just let things roll off your back. <P>David already knows all your opinions. Don't change your opinions, just mask the feelings. Let him feel like he has some free rein here. You know, "Let go and let God" teach him. (God will not make him change or do anything, but does present interesting circumstances in which he will forge and display his evolving character.)

Stress reduction laughable thought-do you think God is going to buy PMS as an excuse when we meet him face to face? <P>Okay, let's do two things, one, put on David's shoes. He goes out and get snockered. If he calls you, you complain, if he doesn't call you, you complain. hmmm...which one gives him a small bit more peace? <P>Okay, now let's get back to the business of taking back ownership of your life!<P><B>Scenario</B>-David drinks, calls less frequent, but more often when we do talk, is sometimes apologetic, but also is rude, hateful, blaming me for all our problems, etc. He gets mad and his anger increases when I cry.<P><B>My Response</B>-I feel very hurt, neglected, rejected, unloved, uncared for, and unwanted by him. I try to be kind and understanding, but have a hard time holding back my feelings of being unloved by him, and when I do tell him, he gets mad, manipulates the situation trying to place blame for his behavior on me.<P><B>Awareness</B>-Feelings are not bad, Jesus had feelings. What I do with those feelings are my responsibility and no one elses. No one can make me feel or not feel. Sin can occur by what I do with those feelings. The spiritual battle is for my mind, what I think about affects my feelings. Satan loves to take advantage of me in my feeling state and twist the truth about things. He is the father of lies.<P>(Rootbeer, cut and paste the awareness piece above and paste into another document until you have 6-8 copies of it, then print it and put one copy on the bathroom mirror, by your bed, by the coffeepot, on the dining room table or wherever you spend most of your time, in your car, at your desk at work, etc. Memorize this Rootbeer! These are truths that you <B>must</B> absorb to fight the battle and break the cycle!)<P>OKay, next is our source of truth-<P>If you did not print out the Neil Anderson stuff I posted a long time ago on who we are in Christ, let me know and I will send it to you again. We battle lies with the truth. We learn how the lies have ingrained themselves in our hearts and minds and take action to remove them with the sword of truth.<P>For example, are you neglected? Define the word neglect. Does the definition fit what is going on in your life? What is the truth about you and neglect? What does God say about such things? Follow through with each of the negative feeling words in this way....<P>Truths would be like:<BR>David provides for me.<BR>David loves me and goes where the job is to make sure I am taken care of, even though he does not like to be away from me.<BR>David knows how I feel about his drinking and honors me by not calling when he is stinking drunk.<BR>David accepts my love that is freely given. (This weekend in California should provide a bunch of things you can identify that were positive in the time you were together)<BR>David has been sensitive to my feelings and even apologized for hurting me.<BR>David loves me enough to not assume responsibility for my feelings even though he may not have the loving tactfulness to exhort me as a brother or sister in Christ would. (In some ways, brothers and sisters in Christ fail me by not being as honest as my husband is)<BR>David continues to stick by me. He would not do this if he didn't love me.<P>You get the picture Rootbeer. Your job is to assess the feelings and dig out the truth in the matter rather than accepting them as carte blanche, and saying well that's how I feel....you are worthy of much more and should not settle for less than the truth. We are not in the process of changing them, we are in the process of changing us into the likeness of Christ, with his mindset, his humilty, his boldness for the truth, etc. We are daughters of the king, heirs to the throne, adopted, (definition) To take (something given or offered) willingly: <BR> • accepted<BR> • embraced<BR> • jumped at<BR> • leaped at<BR> • received<BR> • welcomed<P><B>Action</B><BR>What we believe about ourselves is how others respond to affirm in us. So, your mission should you chose to accept it is to work on changing how you perceive yourself and one way is to enlist the help of your husband. Such as,<P>"Honey, I really have become aware of how I dishonor both you and me when I try to blame you for my feelings instead of owning my feelings and doing something about them myself. Please forgive me for doing this. I really am sorry for trying to pile more things on your shoulders than you need to carry. I would like to change this behavior and would like your help in this if you are willing, and this is how you can help me. When you hear me blaming you for how I feel, I would like for youto not get mad and yell at me, but to make me aware that I am doing it again. I would like you to remind me with this question, "what is the truth about that?" This will help me refocus to the truth of things that you do love me and care for and about me. Will you do this for me please? I probably am going to need a lot of prompting as I try to change this behavior and I ask you to be patient with me. Thanks, honey"<P>So now, what is the feeling? Scared? Fear doesn't come from God, so guess who is harassing you again....<P>You can do this Rootbeer! Have your son show you how to have an icq # for your own self and hook up to those of us that are willing to support you through this, especially at night when the evil works the hardest with you. Many of us are up at that time of night. Enlist the help of a couple of sisters locally who are committed to helping you change this behavior and will hold you accountable. Make sure they know that this honesty shows you far more respect and love than just letting you wallow in self-pity.<P>David is a flawed human being just like the rest of us and God will impress changes on him in His time. For now, work on Rootbeer and see how God uses that change for His glory in David.<P>Love you!<P>[This message has been edited by SueB (edited August 04, 2000).]<p>[This message has been edited by SueB (edited August 04, 2000).]

<B>Setting Boundaries with our own Character</B><P>One of the authors discusses the relationship of a female friend in which the marriage to her spouse is less than satisfying. The spouse is self-absorbed and not interested in personal growth, which grieves the woman because she wanted a husband who sought after God like she does and would want to continue to grow in the relationship with the Lord.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>However, she has adapted to the holes in her marriage. While she loves her husband and invests in the marriage, she also has deep, regular contact with others who are into growth. She has stayed connected to the people for many years. T & C, p.69<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>What this lady does on a regular basis is ask her husband "What do you see me doing that hurts or bothers you?"<P>This woman has no hidden agenda with her husband such as "I'll change for you if you will change for me", she simply desires to be what God intended her to be and she figures her husband is a good source of insight into the weaknesses she needs to address. Whether or not her husband "ever gets curious about his own growth is irrelevent to her own journey, though she deeply desires and prays for this to happen". (p.69)<P>This section goes on to show that the highest calling of a spouse is like that of the highest calling of our faith, loving God and each other. (Matt. 22:37-40) and showing that setting boundaries on your own character is one of the most loving things we can do in our marriage and how often we err when we get into the growth process and aienate our spouses with our intrusivenss, judgmentalism and self-centeredness.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>The spouse of someone who is growing spiritually should be better off, not worse off! p.70</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Now, I don't know about you, but boy, did I groan, rant and rave, stomp my feet and argue with the Lord on this one! Kind of like, are you crazy? If I ask him that, he is going to have a list a mile long...........yeah but....yeah but.....sigh, okay......this is such hard stuff!<P><BR>The Romans 7:15 verse pretty much sums up our human nature, doing what we don't want to do, not doing what we should do, etc. and as the authors state, we cannot "will" ourselves in to maturity nor can we "just say no" and suddenly eliminate all our destructive beahviors or attitudes. <P>Something they did say though, impressed me in a new light.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>We can chose to tell the truth about our faults. We can choose to bring those faults into the light of the relationship. We can choose to repent of them and to work them out and mature them. Setting limits on ourselves sometimes simply involves taking a troublesome emotion, behavior, or attitude to a supportive relationship, instead of acting on it. T & C, p.70 <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>It is taking to heart Harley's rule of honesty to a new height (or maybe it is the same and I just see it differently now.) Harley said: When you follow the Rule of Honesty you promise to be honest about your feelings, your personal history, your current activities and experiences, and your future plans. It is complete honesty. <P>It is going beyond the usual and taking the negative qualities of us and exposing them to the light and you know, things that are scary in the dark aren't quite so scary in the light. It is taking the risk, just as I asked Rootbeer to consider, to utilize our husbands as a support for changes in us rather than the enemy who will torture us. Rather than hear them slam us for our faults, we are exposing them and asking for their support for change, to make us aware of when we do these behaviors, or display attitudes, etc. We become unified in the goal for change. Granted, it is one-sided but then, we are on the spiritual journey for growth, they are not.<P><BR>Next, we will look at some of the specific character issues where we can set limits.....<P><BR>Father, you continue to amaze me as you strengthen me to make the changes in my life, as you teach me daily what it means to honor my husband. Continue to make me aware of the changes I need to make, continue to show me new insight inot your word that I can become the daughter you intended me to be and the wife my husband deserves as a helpmeet. IJN, Amen.<P><BR>Side blurp...someone asked me today in an email if I thought that I saw my husband changing as God changes me. My husband's belief of a couple is that they do EVERYTHING together and to do things apart means I don't love him. One of the things in this changing process and asking forgiveness as the Lord prompts me, is I try to preface what I say to my husband in this way, "I desire to honor you".....and so the word honor is in my vocabulary a lot these days and also filtering down to the children. My husband wanted us to take the kids to the movies, but the girls have been talking to me about wanting time with just Daddy. In the past he would get mad at this, put on the pouts and the tears and the You don't love me, you don't want to be a couple, jazz. I shared with him what the girls had said and that I knew that he wanted me to always go with him, but that I really wanted to honor the girls' desire to be with him and I shared how much I valued the time I spent with my father alone. He asked the girls if they wanted me to come along and it seemed like they were repeating what is was they thought he wanted them to say and soooooo....drum roll.....he said to them that I wanted to honor their desires, that I was comfortable going or staying home, that this was THEIR time and they could choose which they preferred, to go as a family or to go as a daddy daughter time. They chose Daddy daughter time and he was perfectly okay with it!!!! God is working in our family...baby steps...honor...baby steps....honor

Wow! Praise the Lord, Sue. That is great. I agree the kids need time with Dad by themselves, since they so often have time with mom by ourselves. Just today the oldest was talking to dad and he invited her in for lunch. I was so pleased that he had this time just with her.<BR>I am reading this eagerly. Even though I don't have the opportunity to apply this now, the time will come. I shared on another thread. Last night I went to a play with some of my Bible study group (one of our members was the lead female). One of the woman unconsciously asked me, "so when is Jack coming home?" She stopped and looked at me and said, "I said that with such confidence?" We laughed and I said maybe you have just been prophetic. It was neat.<BR>I keep eagerly reading the book, so I will be prepared for that day.

Yes HW, I read that prophetic comment! I too wonder if God is allowing Jack to move to DC so that he can see what all he is missing.<P>And it is so exciting what is happening at my house. For example, one of the girls, after going to the movies, has been a real attitude problem and her dad called her on it. I suggested that she had a hard time accepting good things in her life, tokens of love, etc. and he responded that it seemed like all of the women in his life were like that, meaning me. I did not take it as a zinger this time but shared a bit with him about this study challenging us to partner with our husbands to make those changes and so I would like his help in this area to make me aware when I do this, so I could make the change. He was quiet for a moment and then said, how do I do that without sounding like I am complaining or being critical of you....and then added some side quip about adding "do I get a star" to the statement of awareness so that I would know that he was doing as I asked. I told him that I had asked for his help in this area and so if that is what he needs to do to feel better about it, then fine. My goal is to make the changes God wants me to make and I needed his help....WILL WONDERS EVER CEASE????

The DC thing is not for sure. Actually there are three options right now. There is the option of staying where his is. Then there is this other company that is pursuing him, but that would be here in NYC. The third option is moving to one of the DC offices of his present company. We will see.

Sorry, HW, must have misread that info, thought he was still heading for DC. At any rate, in some ways, you could still practice some of these things, in that in the growing process, you could ask him for his insight into what has hurt or bothered him and check and see where you are at with it now, etc. It's just a thought.<P>Rootbeer, are you okay?

Sue,<BR>Not a bad idea. I know some of the things, but at this point until he decides to come back I don't know whether it is worth bringing up. I will pray about it. It might be something we can talk about. But at the same time I do not want to get drawn into a conversation where I then get on my soapbox about how good it could be, how if he would try we could make it, or where he is with her. I really need to stay away from these topics unless he brings them up. This is a very tricky time for me in this regards.<BR>But I will pray about it and we will see where God leads. Pray for us we are all going to a Yankees game together as a family tomorrow about 4:00 EST. Thanks

This study just keeps getting better and better!!! Wow. I've got a lot to work on.....<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>The spiritual battle is for my mind, what I think about affects my feelings. Satan loves to take advantage of me in my feeling state and twist the truth about things. He is the father of lies<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Since I read your comments, I have been concentrating on getting rid of the negative, dwelling on the positive. So, this eve. as I drove home, and the enemy started putting thoughts of "its Friday, he's going to get drunk and not call you" and "what's wrong with letting him know how much he hurts you", I called upon God to get rid of those thoughts, used my Christ given authority over the enemy to make him flee, and <B>focused on the thought, "David tells me he loves me every time he calls"</B>. It is going to be real hard, but with the Father's guidance, I can do it. <BR>When David did call a little bit ago, I was happy to hear his voice, and kept the conversation light. I made a conscious effort not to ask "when are you coming home". Again tonight he commented about being sick of being out there PRAISE GOD. I pray that the Lord continues to draw David to Him, and causes all the things he thought were so exciting about working in CA to become drudgery, boring, and no fun. It is now my challenge to keep a positive attitude, being loving, kind and supportive whenever we talk.<BR>All this week he has asked me to give him a wake-up call each morning, so I have. I believe this is an answer to prayer because I've prayed that he want to have contact with me, and his mind and heart are filled with thoughts of me. <BR>I'm making tiny baby steps SueB. Thank you so much for encouraging me and teaching me how to do this. I will most definately take your advice on asking David to help me change. He will be flabbergasted I'm sure, especially when I say "I want to honor you". We've never discussed what a woman's role is in marriage (biblically) as I have not wanted to push God down his throat, so he is totally unaware of what a God centered marriage should be, and how a wife should be submissive to her husband, respecting and honoring him. My next challenge is to show him this, without speaking about it. Whew.<BR>Thank You Father, for loving us so much that You provided a way for us to learn together how to become the Christian wives You desire us to be. Lord, I cannot do this by myself. I'm asking for Your help, and divine intervention in my life. Show me Your ways Lord, Your Truth. Help me Father, to be always respectful of my husband, honoring him in a way that pleases You. Direct me constantly so I become the godly wife my husband needs and will be thrilled to call his wife. Thank You Lord for all the miracle transformations You are doing. You are our Savior, and we will worship and praise You forever and ever. INJ AMEN.

Wow lady, by Jiminy, we are learning by leaps and bounds! <P>Your call to David sounded like a postive one. You can be honest and let him know that you miss him and desire him and can't wait for more of the same that you experienced over the weekend. You can affirm him when he makes comments about being tired of CA, "yeah, I know it is hard on you (or both of us) honey. It's one of the prices you pay for being the best of the best in the job you do!"<P>What I had a chance to do yesterday was just share a little bit about this study, not expounding on boundaries (for that ruffles his edges since he doesn't understand what this means) but more about our desire to honor one another and the converstation on his part would get defensive and start to escalate and I would throw up a quick prayer and flash through these principles and then respond with "I" messages to clarify my purpose for my comments, etc. I apologized again for some small things and I again emphasized my desire for change and that I had to look at the baby steps as progress. He then identified a couple of things he saw in himself as baby steps of progress. <P>He feels sad that he has no friends and that there are about 6 of you that I feel so blessed to call friends and we write back and forth encouraging and challenging one another. I again challenged him to enlist in many of the support opportunities and online bible studies that he could connect to and named some of the women's studies that I have joined. He knows that there are now 2 women that I meet with one on one with fairly regularly for support.<P>He at one point said that he couldn't be what he wanted to be and when I asked him what that was, he clamped down and said it involved action on my part and I again clarified that who he was and what he wanted to be had nothing to do with any other person, but with himself and the Lord and that I would like to support him in whatever that would be, but that who he was didn't require my participation. Still saddened over that but did not blow up. PTL! I think the most exciting thing was remembering the challenge from yesterday to risk asking, "tell me how I hurt you" and taking it to him with each of his derogatory digs or accusations, asking specifically what that behavior looked like, so that I would recognize it and be able to make changes. For the most part that stumped him and he couldn't be specific. I think he was so used to me being defensive back to him and sucking into the dysfunction with him that this new me behavior really threw him. <P>And I think all addictions follow a similar path so what I learned in living with my alcoholic in the past is making more sense today, kind of like learning the basics from "getting them Sober" and then seeing where those things fit with the Word of truth and now with BIM seeing how honor ties it all together, both honoring self and spouse in addition to the Lord.<P>I know we have so far to go, but I am so encouraged and my hope is high as I practice these steps one day at a time. I guess I am excited for all of us, even HW, though you aren't living with Jack, the prospect of growing in the Lord through these boundary steps and practicing them now builds that honesty and self-accountability piece that is necessary in any relationship. When I suggested to you to practice now, it never occurred to me that the topic would even surround <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I do not want to get drawn into a conversation where I then get on my soapbox about how good it could be, how if he would try we could make it, or where he is with her.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I was thinking more of in terms of dealing with each other as individuals, respecting each other and honoring one another's differences, especially since you have said in the past that Jack has a tendency for depression and avoidance. Kind of like "I know you have mentioned this about me in the past and I have decided to work on that flaw in me so that I can have victory in this area. Can you give me some specific exmples where that behavior occurred so I can see how it fits with other situations in my life and see the similarities? Thanks, you're a pal!" No mention of the relatioship between the two of you, just you working on an area in your life and you value him as a good source on information because he has lived with you.<P><BR>Father, continue to break the strongholds and bariers in our life that keeps us from experiencing the fullness of you. Continue to make us pliable and mold us with the characteristics consistent with the gifts and talents you have given us that we might bring you glory. Take the blinders off our eyes and let us see those areas that we need to bring to the light and be exposed. Thank you for your faithfulness, Father. IJN,Amen.

Forgot the questions for yesterday's piece of BIM info.<P>1. What did you appreciate about the lady's approach to her less than satisfying marriage? Did you notice that she took action to fill the <B>holes</B> in her marriage rather than continue to expect him to fill them for her, and that it appears that he NEVER filled those holes in their marriage?<P>2. When will you follow her lead and ask your spouse "What do you see me doing that hurts or bothers you?"<P>3. When, if ever, have you or your spouse set personal boundaries that made you or him better to live iwth? What current need is there for you to set boundaries on your own character?

I just read this post and am sitting her in awe. God is awesome. These very issues have been on my heart. I have been praying for the Lord to put "my life" in the order he would like it. Lately, I have been totally overwhelmed with work, marriage, children, etc and have simply been putting it in the Lord's hands. The result is that I have had no desire to change anyone else, ie, no nagging, no talking, etc. It has been good. I have been convicted about many of the things mentioned in the posts here, ie speaking negativity out loud and to others, feeling sorry for myself, etc. I am thankful God is working on me. The Lord has also made me aware that I need to stop condemning myself. I have been wrestling with how to reconcile all of these things, to set boundaries and to be loving, caring, honest, and at peace. I seemed to miss the title of the book and I would love to get it and join you.

Hi there and welcome! We are discussing the concepts of boundaries for self mainly taken from Boundaries in Marriage by Henry Cloud and John Townsend and trying to put some order in our lives and balance all the things we have been learning via Harley's stuff, the Power of the Praying Wife in line with the bible. We would love to have you join us!

<B>Character Issues<P>[b]Playing God</B><P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>By human nature, we try to play God instead of seeking him. T & C p. 70<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Recognize it, own it, repent of it and keep alert for this worst and most hurtful aspect of our character! When we are playing God we are not being respnsible, we are not being loving or caring about the welfare of our spouse. We are seeking our own agenda for our spouse and not their best which is God's best for them. Our mindset is vastly inferior to God's best, slanted by our own ulterior motives which generally are self-centered. (Like, if he would only do this, then I would be happy)<P>WE need to submit-> yield, defer, obey, capitulate, accede or surrender ourself to the will or authority of God: In the spirit of RO 7:15, we need to let God know that the desire to play God is larger than our power to stop it and we need His help. T & C challenge us to practice the spiritual disciplines of worship, prayer, fellowship and Scripture reading. Fellowship means the larger step for growing, to find peers who will help hold you accountable for your actions, so that you must continually search yourself and your behaviors, attitudes, motives, etc.<BR> <BR>RO 6:13 Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as instruments of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer the parts of your body to him as instruments of righteousness. [14] For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace.<P> JN 14:23 Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. [24] He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.<P><BR>So, check yourself, in what ways are you playing God in your marriage relationship?<P>What steps will you take to submit this part of yourself to God's authority?<P><B>Denial</B><P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>When we do not admit the truth about who we are, we give our spouse no one with whom to connect....What we deny about ourselves is absent from love. T & C p.71</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P> 1JN 1:8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. <P>This one really gave me much to think about! And I wish I knew how to verbalize it better than they do, but I don't so have to quote them again!<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>If, for example, you deny your struggle with insecurity by attempting to be strong, your spouse cannot love and have compassion for your insecure parts. This impoverishes the marriage bond and prevents a deeper connection with our spouse. T & C, p.71<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>So, not only do we quit trying to pass the blame for our feelings, insecurities, etc. onto our spouses because we need to own those things and deal with our issues, but we also need to be honest about our issues, put them in the spotlight so that we can receive support and compassion from our spouses whie dealing with our issues....<P>How many times has my husband made an observation about me that I have totally denied, refusing to be that vulnerable to him, particularly in his critical state. How often have I felt that I was considered more of an enemy instead of a partner, when I myself have refused to participate in the partnering process! How many times have I wanted him to admit to his vulnerabiliies and share heart to heart when I myself have denied my own heart issues! Oh brother! <P>SO...in the boundary setting process for self, we need to learn to set limits on our tendency to deny who we are, warts and all. We need to work on our tendencies to deny and RATIONALIZE our failures, weaknesses, selffishness or hurtfulness, etc.<P>I had to laugh because the obvious opposite of denial is confession or agreeing with the truth, and the statement made that most likely our husbands knew the truth anyway, so the only one we are deluding is ourselves. The benefit of coming out of denial is two-fold: When we confess who we are, we are being emotionally present with our husbands and we are allowing them to minister to the vulnerable parts of us. When we take out the blame and hold out the truth of our own responsibility and failures in certain areas, this then frees the spouse to be the man God designed him to be.<P>You know in Ephesians 5 when the job description of husband is detailed? How can they be the protector if we won't be honest enough to let them know what we need protected from? Ecc:3:11 says: He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the hearts of men; yet they cannot fathom what God has done from beginning to end. T & C explain this in terms of God placing inside our spouses a desire to live and grow in the light of his love and challenge us to stir that part to life with our own openness.<P>Checking on self then challenges us to be open with ourselves and discover what aspects of ourself, are we denying? What failure, weakness, selfishness, or hurtfulness are you denying or rationalizing?<P>The next step spurs action, first to ask God to enable you to confess this tendency to your spouse. Also ask god to prepare your spouse to respond with compassion, support and love.<P>Thirdly, be concrete! When will you confess what you have be denying? Be specific and set a time!<P>More later!<P>

Got an issue today with H that I need to use the boundaries on.......<P>Scene..... I wait all Saturday waiting for H to show up and pick up one of our daughters (His mom will only let him have 1 at a time in her home), I had plans to do more school shopping and do lunch with the kids and times ticking by, Im getting angry and frustrated at the fact that we have never even gotten a phone call that when he finally calls almost 3pm I want to lop his head off...... He said that he's been working all day and won't be around today to pick anyone up.......<P>My boundary...... When you decide next time to pick up a girl, you will give me a time, and if you are going to be late or it will be a no show you will call at that time.... Then I wont get angry...... The consequences of you not following through in this mannor will be that I will assume a 'no show' and proceed with my day that way I planned....<P>Hubby said OK then tomarrow at 2pm..... fine, but if your not here I have to leave to Auburn right after that and we will be gone OK? <P>BTW.... Pray for us... My boss renigged on our vacation and my hubby said hes bringing me divorse papers tomarrow.... Don't have much feelings about the later, but everyone is real upset here about no vacation.... <P>------------------<BR>Jesus is the only answer!<BR>His blessings, Cozy