SueB, yes I cried when he said that, and thanked him for his kind comment. The last few days I have been sent by email more articles on submission and becoming a meek and gentle spirit than ever before. I think the Lord is trying to tell me something. I was especially touched by the one I just posted on hw's thread.

<B>Conflict #1: Sin of One Spouse</B><P>Someone has done something wrong, a sin against the other person, a true infraction. Sin displays itself in many ways:sexual sin, angry outbursts, loss of self-control, impatience, critical attitudes, judgmentalism, out-of-control spending of the family money(thievery), lying or deception, substance abuse, controlling behavior, emotionally injurious behavior (name calling or belittling), misuse of power, pride, selfishness, greed, jealousy, envy and conceit, just to name a few....<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>The first thing to consider in facing the conflict that comes from an individual's sin is the attitude of the spouse confronting the sin. Event the best of people can do what the Bible calls "falling short of the glory of God."</B> p.171<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Ephesians 4:32 Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.<P><BR>Are you choking now? Can you hear yourself arguing with the Lord as Stormi did when she said to him "Do you see how he is, Lord?" Remember the Lord's reply? "Do you see how you are?" The two most important attitudinal things that the Bible suggests in dealing with someone else's sin is humility and grace. Now that doesn't mean that first response might not be hurt and feelings of betrayal, a tendency to try and assume responsibility for the sin, (i.e. "What's wrong with me that he would do this?") Not discounting Harley's unmet EN at this point, so hang on....<P>One of the ways to get past the hurt is to think of the other person, to see the kind of bondage they are in, how badly they feel about it (remember anger often covers hurt), to try and see what would drive the individual to such a thing. From this standpoint you can feel compassion for the individual, recognizing that you are not perfect either. Receiving grace from you rather than condemnation provides an atmosphere in which repentance and healing can occur.<P>Romans 2:4-Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness leads you toward repentance?<P>GAL 6:1 Brothers, if someone is caught in a sin, you who are spiritual should restore him gently. But <B>watch yourself</B>, or you also may be tempted. [2] Carry each other's burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.<P>Watch yourself means you don't lord the sin over your loved one, you don't hurl harmful words, or try to make them hurt as you hurt. Curb a desire to be vindictive as the "victim" of this "wrong". <P>At the same time, there is no minimization of the sin itself, but it is dealt with matter of factly calling it what it is. It is back to love the sinner, hate the sin. It is a matter of taking a stance on your values (healthy values are love of God, love of spouse, honesty, faithfulness, compassion and forgiveness, and holiness- any one wanting more info on these and how they fit, write me.)Couples need to take a hard stance against anything that violates their values. For example, pornography violates a number of values: faithfulness, honesty, holiness, loving God, and loving the other.<P>T & C talk much about going soft on the person and tough on the sin issue at hand, remembering not to minimize the sin of either of you and your loved one. hey state the process looks like the following on page 173:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>1. Look at your own attitude. Rid yourself of judgmentalism, condemnation, shame or pride. Look at the log in your own eye, show mercy and identify wit your spouse as a fellow sinner.<P>2. Speak to the issues directly. Let your spouse know that you know, and tell him that what he is doing is not right. If the sin is against you, let him know how you feel. Talk about the hurt and how it affects you and whoever else is involved. Don't shame him, but be honest. Use "I" statements.<P>3. A boundary loving person will acknowledge the wrong and apologize. Accept it; offer forgivenss. Reaffirm your love and acceptance.<P>4. When emotions are not strong, talk about the problem to see if there is any further help he might need. Even though he might hav econfessed and repented, underlying issues may need to be addressed, and he might need outside help. Offer your support and help to solve the problem.<P>5. Agree on a follow-up plan. "If I notice something again, how do you want me to help you? What do you want me to do?" This way you become a team member to deal with the problem and not a police officer. YOu might want to talk to him about bringing other resources to the problem as well, such as friends to hold him accountable. The important issue is that you are together as a team to fight the reoccurence.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>

Sue,<BR>This is such a tricky one. It is so easy to let emotions of the hurt get in the way, it is easy to be judgemental especially when it is righteous judgement, but again speaking love in truth is the key.<BR>However, in my case it just hasn't done much. I never yell, or even say mean things back or out of spite. I use I statements or examples. I am probably too controlled, but I do try to say the truth in love. At this point though he takes it as me trying to get him to feel guilty and therefore come back. He said in that case he would resent me for ever.<BR>This is not my intent at all. Yes, I do hope he would realize that what he is doing is wrong and then think about trying us again. <BR>So separating out which is mine and which is his. And then how do I handle it. <BR>The guilt is his. So, when I try to show him how it has hurt the family he feels the guilt, but that doesn't tell him what he is doing may not be right. Instead it brings the guilt he feels out from where he's tried to hide it, he feels shame and then he puts that off on me ( I just thought of this) He has always been good at putting the blame off on me subtly, and I fall for it. It is not me making him feel guilty, that is the consequence of his behavior.<BR>So what is my part? You can answer for me. okay, okay I will try to work this through.<BR>To tell him that my intent is not to make him feel guilty or to shame him into coming back, but rather to share the way this affects us. The guilty response is his. I can't make him feel guilty (or anything else). Maybe point out that he is feeling guilty because what he is doing is self-fish (or is that taking it too far) that the guiltiness is the natural consequence to self fish behavior and (help me here, what does it mean)<BR>So am I way off here. I truely am asking for help, because I don't know what to say anymore. (I always use the same words so he says) <BR>Of course I also have to realize that maybe God is working here and I shouldn't say anything. As I said I want the magic wand to work here. Transform him.<BR>Really if anyone, Sue, or anyone else has some idea, please jump in here. Thanks. <BR>

I'll give it a try. This from slow poke, remember, so forewarned is forearmed. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>The guilt is his. So, when I try to show him how it has hurt the family he feels the guilt, but that doesn't tell him what he is doing may not be right. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I know people talk about wayward spouses being in a fog, but even in a betrayer's blurry mind, they must surely know they're doing harm. I doubt he needs to be "shown". It would be as enlightening as telling a smoker that smoking's bad for health. Duh! It simply isn't a motivating factor to change behavior. Now... what would that factor be??? I can only hope that the answer will be revealed to you.

Guilt --> Misguided Self-protection --> Denial --> Moving away from God --> Increased tolerance for sin --> Increasing sin --> Guilt --> Etc.<P>Cycles.<P>This is a cycle which shreds every last bit of personal integrity. It divides the soul from the spirit, the conscious from the unconscious.<P>The only way out is true confession with taking full ownership of responsibility, sincere remorse, repairing the wrongs to the best of ones ability, asking forgiveness from the wronged individuals and God, and forsaking the sin forever. i.e. Repentance.<P>It is very difficult to attract a person mired in a lifetime of denial and cover ups to a desire of repentance. God can sometimes to nothing but bring them to the depths of misery which has a chance of bringing them to humility from which they may desire repentance. <P>We can gently lead, guide, demonstrate and love. That is the Godly way, and it doesn't always work. For absolute certain however, nothing else ever works. A lifetime of good example is all God asks of us.

dbl pst<p>[This message has been edited by Karenna (edited August 22, 2000).]

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>It is very difficult to attract a person mired in a lifetime of denial and cover ups to a desire of repentance. God can sometimes to nothing but bring them to the<BR>depths of misery which has a chance of bringing them to humility from which they may desire repentance. <P>We can gently lead, guide, demonstrate and love. That is the Godly way, and it doesn't always work. For absolute certain however, nothing else ever works. A lifetime of good example is all God asks of us.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Such great points Karenna! The dysfunction here gets in those same guilt/denial, redirect accusations to diffuse the truth of things. Some days I am crying just because I see how deeply entrenched my dear H is and I know that I can't do anything to get him out of the destructive pattern. Kind of shows me how God pursues us and calls our name even as we are running the other way. Does he stop pursuing or stop calling us? His desire is for us to be in relationship with Him and he loves us even when we are unloveable. I wanted to quit yesterday and right in the middle of apologizing to the Lord for this thought through the tears, He reminded me of this, that He first loved us, that pursing, that drawing near, the soft gentle whisper. <P>I too struggled in the Conflict #1 piece for the way my husband treats me is sinful, the focus on the body treading dangerous ground as idol building. The process described works for those who are boundary lovers, but for those who are boundary resistant....sigh. The only thing I can see is how God is using this time to grow us individually into a deeper more satisfying relationship with Him. It is making me focus more on what values I do place on life itself, causing me to think more deeply in how I can portray and verbalize the truths in a godly fashion with His temperment rather than my own nature.<P>Keep me in prayer today please. When H gets into these stinking thinking modes, it goes on for days and I truly do want to respond as the Father responds. Thanks.

I pulled every tool out of my box today I could think of. Continuing onto another verse of my "birthday picture" dilemma, I had a new occasion to disengage myself from another potential offense of getting in the middle. The same friend, believe it or not, needs some work done that my H could do. <P>I made it very clear to H that I would not risk his wrath for getting in the middle of this one. I asked him flat out if he was going to do the job. He avoided the question initially but I managed to keep a calm even voice and pressed on. I asked him if he wanted to do it, and he got huffy and I raised my voice. It took him two months after his last commitment to me to tell me why he didn't want to honor the commitment. I told him I don't like playing guessing games when it comes to commitments. If he didn't want to do this next project, then he'd better say so now and NOT keep me in the dark if he's uncomfortable about something. Angry outburst, stomp out of room. It happened as soon as I raised my voice. <P>I gave him a few minutes and apologized. He stomped off again. I gave him another few minutes. This discussion isn't over, I said. He contemplated bolting again, but instead asked "what do you want from me?" I said I want you to listen to me! <P>He actually sat down and I had my chance. I said I want to know what I can expect. If you don't want to take the work, you need to say so now. I don't want to play guessing games about what you want. You have to tell me. (It's not like I'm asking him to pull up a railroad spike with a staple puller for crying out loud.) Finally he tells me he's leery because he's seen how friend operates. Things get started but not finished. Being around that really drags him down. It's true about the friend. I'm guilty of it too. At last I've extracted a partial answer to an emotional needs questionnaire. I think I've set some boundaries without too much fallout and figured out where some of his are too. <P>How am I doing ladies? <P>

Great!! Success begets success. Perfect practice makes perfect. <P>Sometimes the habits of years make us feel like we are in a really deep hole and can't get out on our own. Just reaching for the edge the first time and finding out that there is so much we can do with just a little bit of Hope seems like the biggest miracle. <P>After the next attempt you may discover that this deep pit was actually only a couple of feet deep, but you had lain in the mud so long you didn't know you could see out if you stood up!

<B>Immaturity or Brokenness</B><P>Obviously, there is so much in this book that I wish we could go over every inch of it, a piece at a time. This next section in regards to conflict comes out of the chapter called "It takes two to become One" emphasizing that two complete or mature people are required to make "oneness" and that marriage is not the place where one gets "completed" as a person. We are to complement one another out of our individual strengths rather than to complete one another to cover our weaknesses. T & C also state that basic human requirements of character are not complements and that they are essentials to being a complete person and they provided a partial list of abilities that both partners must possess and cannot be "borrowed" from one another. The ability to:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR> • Connect Emotionally<BR> • Be vulnerable and share feelings<BR> • Have an appropriate sense of power and assertivenss<BR> • Say no<BR> • Have initiate and drive<BR> • Have at least a minimal amount of organization<BR> • Be real, but not perfect<BR> • Accept imperfections and have grace and forgivenss<BR> • Grieve<BR> • Think for oneself and express one's opinions<BR> • Learn and grow<BR> • Takes risks<BR> • Grasp and use one's talents<BR> • Be responsible and follow through<BR> • Be free and not controlled by external or internal factors<BR> • Be sexual<BR> • Be spiritual<BR> • Have a moral sense<BR> • Have an intellectual life <BR>p.91-92<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Out of this then, adults take responsibilty for their treasures, their feelings, attitudes, behaviors, choices, limits, desires, thoughts, values, talents and love.<P>There is tons more in that chapter, but I thought the basics were necessary to understand the next conflict.<P>Most people get married totally unaware of their spouse's shortcomings. T & C assert that "part of "falling in love" is idealizing an imperfect person, not even seeing where he or she falls short of that ideal." (p.176) When the honeymoon ends and the reality does surface, and it will whether we want it to or not, our ability to deal with the reality makes or breaks the relationship.<P>Kind of like the very things you admired him for when you were dating are the very things that irritate the tar out of you now. This really hit me from a quote from another post on the forum:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>this OM is the 'free-spirited' kind: he's single, has never dated anyone for more than 3 months in his life, and he has this job which requires him to travel more or less<BR>around the world whenever the need arises..He seeks pleasures in life outta little, simple things like freedom, time alone, and playing with his only love-his dog.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Do the words uncommitted, self-centered, and loner enter her mind? Can you hear her complaining about these very traits if she permanently connects with him after just a short time? I suspect that you are now thinking about those similar traits that attracted you and how different they look now in the reality of your marriage. T & C identify 6 ways to face that reality when it occurs.<P><B>1. Accept Reality</B><P>Admitting that both you and your spouse will be unprepared for some of the realities life brings, you need to accept reality about yourself and your spouse, recognizing that you may not have the emotional ability or the skills necessary to weather some stresses or be able to respond like a mature adult. <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Some common areas where normal people find they have brokenness from the past or some immaturity where they are not equipped to perfom as they would like:<BR> • Relational abilities to get close, communicate, or sustain intimacy<BR> • Parenting abilites<BR> • Emotional probelms from the past or from their family of origin<BR> • Lack of structure, self-discipline or follow through<BR> • Financial inabilities to make or manage money<BR> • Sexual difficulties from fear, past trauma, shame or other emotional factors<BR> • Not having completed the "twoness" and identity formation (talked about above)<BR> • Not having completely left home and become an adult, ready for marriage T & C, p.177<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>T & C warn us that none of these things are sins and that if one of us makes them out to be sin or demands that they not be present to complete the illusion of having the "ideal" partner, then we are the one prolonging the problem by not accepting reality.<P><B>2. Communicate Your Support to Your Spouse</B><P>"We do not grow when we are judged, nagged, condemned, resented, or subjected to some other lack of grace." (p. 177)<P>1Thes. 5:14 And we urge you, brothers, warn those who are idle, encourage the timid, help the weak, be patient with everyone.<P>Our challenge is to let our partner know that we are their biggest supporter, that we continually affirm our absolute unconditional love and acceptance of them as they are, and that we let our spouse's know that their weaknesses or inability is somethng with which we will be supportive and patient.... (I am going to need help brainstorming this one in how to do this, ladies)<P><B>3. Face Issues as Real Problems</B><P>This complements the previous point in that while we don't wish to be non-supportive or lack grace, we also wish to be honest about problems. "Part of love, remember, is honesty and requiring holiness and growth from each other. So, where your spouse is not mature, let him know." (p.178)<P>The process for this:<BR> • Be direct. Tell what you see is the problem.<BR> • Let your spouse know how you feel and how it affects you.<BR> • Be careful to stay away from shame and condemnation.<BR> <BR>An example of this type of communication would look like this:<BR>honey, I understand your difficulty, I really do. But at the same time, I would like.... I feel.... I want.... so that we can ....together again. <P>Make sure that you are clear that there is a need for growth.<P><B>4. Own Your Problems</B><P>If you are the one being confronted with your immaturity, own it. Become a "boundary lover", the wise woman who loves to get feedback and heeds it. "Don't be defensive and try to learn what the person who sees you everyday is learning about you." (p.178)<P><B>5. Get a Plan</B><P>We all need help, mentoring, support and teaching, recognizing that no one ever grew up on his own. Overcome brokenness or immaturity by developing an intentional plan to deal with the issue. Some may need therapy, others financial counseling, support or recovery groups while still others may need accountability systems to break the bondage of brokenness or immaturity so that it does not rule you. "Devote resources, time and energy to the problem." (p. 178)<P><B>6. Make it Mutual</B><P>"Guard against labling one spouse "the problem person". Valids points here are that it takes two to make a problem and that as God sees us all as equals, we need to view each other as equals as well. T & C identify that usually one of the couple has to grow in the "relational" area and more than likely, the other has to grow in the " functional" area of life, such as advancing a career and getting things done. We are to help one another in our areas of weakness, recognizing that we are "one" now and that if one of us is suffering, so is the other.<P>T & C also quote the infamous verse in Eph 5 showing that there is no one upmanship in these verse and that we are to love one another as part of ourselves, being as we are one. We both would be in need of growth. "Equality and mutuality can solve a lot of problems if you are working as a team. Make the equality mutual and make the problems mutual so that you help each other." p.179)<P>A side note: I havent' been ignoring this stuff and I still believe God desires for us to continue in this study of boundaries, but I also sense that he wanted the combination of the seekng Him thread to pentrate our hearts so that as we become more sensitive, we can really look at this boundary stuff in a new light.<P>One of the areas that T & C have challenged us in is to ask our spouses what they see as our flaws and quite frankly, in perceivng the critical nature and narcissistic tendencies of my hubby, I really have been hesitant to do this. As God has been workng on me this week in the area of my denial of feelings and my guarded heart and my practicing this open stomach thing, the tears seem to just flow out of everywhere. So I took the leap and asked my husband about my weaknesses. His first comment was that I had done this before and then responded very defensively. I apologized for that and told him some of what God is teaching me and how I now wanted to hear it again in a new light. It wasn't anything new per se, but maybe I am trying to hear it with His heart. I am praying that somehow God can show us this mutuality thing and that we could see past the hurt to take a risk to address little issues. More importantly though is my desire to be obedient to the Lord and to have His heart, so whether my hubby views tonight as a new change in me or not doesn't seem to matter. To be soft and vulnerable in an incredibly scary thing for me. My stomach is just hurting so badly and I have to keep telling myself to let it be loose and to breath. I will try to get the next conflict are up tomorrow.<P>

Ladies, <BR>I need some help with boundary setting here. It's been almost two weeks, and my H hasn't followed up on a lead for some work. We are in DIRE straights here. I don't understand what he's <I>waiting</I> for! <P>Actually I do know what he's waiting for. He's waiting for me to take the initiative, waiting for me to do the part that he doesn't like to do (i.e., make the contact, hammer out the details, etc.). Well, that's my least favorite part too. I also haven't forgotten what happened last time I got in the middle of something. It didn't go too well and I thought, ok, this time I'll stay out of it. Ladies, if I don't say something soon, he will probably forget that there ever was a lead. <P>Since we're supposedly in this venture together, I think he should have some responsibility and capability in getting a lead, following up, closing a sale, and accept payments. I feel like our business has this huge list of things to do, and everything undesirable falls on my list. I think it's important for him to be able to make some income all by himself without any direct involvement from me. Am I whining or unreasonable? Or do I have a log so big that I can't see at all? Please help!

Lonesome my friend, I think you are on the right track, but I think he thinks he can outwait you for you have always picked up the ball in the past.<P>I suppose one of the things you can do is make up that list of things to do and sit down and show it to him and ask him to decide which ones he is going to tackle and you tell him which ones you will tackle that day. Then come together again at the end of the day and share the progress. I ask my hubby such questions such as "how do you want to handle such and such?" If he comes up with a solution, then I ask him when he plans on doing that, and I don't let him dump it in my lap. I redirect him by saying, "honey I asked you how YOU wanted to handle this, not how you wanted me to handle it".<P>Not sure of any other ideas right now, but I will pray about it.

How are we doing on boundaries these days? I had a good experience with helping my daughter with a boundary with her dad the other day. Mostly I have had to protect her, still do, but she is learning to verbalize her boundaries too.

Lonesome Heart.,<P>My heart goes out to you, I have a similar situation. My husband doesn't like to do anything unpleasant and hates responsibility so he just ignores it. That leaves me in the same uncomfortable situation you end up in. It really makes the resentment grow. I am at my wit's end too. To just leave it until he picks it up means it won't be picked up at all. If I ask later, he lies about it, such as "I forgot" or "I was too busy". I'm sure you know it too. The roles are reversed because we are to be their helper, not the other way around. The most frustrating part is we have no leverage to motivate them. If we just let it go it doesn't get picked up (and that can hurt the family and children too). If we do it, we're back where we started from. Sometimes I think the only thing that will speak to them is to leave. It seems like it has to come to that point. To stay in this is just crazy making for me.<P>Okay this was a HUGE vent. I don't usually let it out like that, but I am so exasperated. I have no more desire to keep on working on this. I just feel I want to separate myself from this craziness.<P>

Dear sifted,<BR>I'm surprised to hear such disheartening things from you. I've read your posts and you're a wise and patient person. Maybe we're both having a bad day today. I was filled with such anger today. I've been putting tremendous effort over the last several weeks into keeping a positive attitude and doing nice things for my H. At first he did a nice thing or two for me. Now I feel like my efforts and my very life are being poured into a bottomless black hole never to be seen again or rewarded. I had to leave the house today just to yell and scream on the highway where no one could hear me. I didn't drive far enough and was still in a very bad mood when I got home. I bullied my H into glueing my rear view mirror back onto the windshield. It fell off two months ago, so believe me, I know what it's like to wait for things that never materialize. If I had waited for him to offer, I'd be too old to drive! <P>Sifted, I don't know what kind of boundary setting we have to do in order to achieve a marriage where both people make efforts to meet emotional needs. All we can change is ourselves, and my H evidently is impervious to it. I think I'll reread that boundary resistant people chapter.

Lonesome Heart,<P>I have been very disheartened and discouraged lately. Not to mention very angry, which is pretty upsetting to me to see the magnitude of it. I don't usually post when I feel so discouraged - I think it is very hard for me to show my weak side. I guess I prefer to show the "patient and wise" side, but I'm having a hard time keeping that up much anymore. <P>I am sorry for your bad day. I know just how you feel about needing to leave for awhile because of the anger building inside. I also got out of the house for several hours with my older daughter. Just took a novel and went to the beach to read and rest. I felt good afterwards, but when I got home all the feelings of anger and resentment returned. I seem to oscillate between anger, resentment, despair and sometimes a little bit of hopefulness (although that is getting more and more rare). <P>I have never been quite at this point before. It is like I've reached a point of not wanting to try at all anymore. Like I have no reserves of hope anymore, no resources from within to draw on and want to keep trying. I am exhausted from putting forth so much effort over the years. I feel like I'm in a no-win situation. If I put forth effort, my H can relax and not worry about anything, because someone else (me) is taking care of the relationship and caring about it. If I do nothing, he can stay in that state of withdrawal himself for a long time. I can't stay there too long without feeling real angry, so I usually pull out of it sooner. And it starts all over again.<P>I'm realizing I need to take responsibility for my anger. I just don't know what to do with all those feelings inside. I don't have the Boundaries book, maybe I should get it, but I'm even tired of being the one to read and figure it out. Do you have that book? We also desperately need counseling. We had a little bit and then our 6 sessions ended (at the last session the counselor asked to speak to me alone for awhile. She made the suggestion that I should consider why I am staying in this relationship and that doing it only for religious reasons wasn't good for me. That was very disconcerting to hear, as if she seemed to think this was all not worth the effort and wouldn't ever change.). She then wanted to work with my husband alone for several sessions. They made an appointment and I found out on the week-end he cancelled it (was supposed to be last Friday) because he was "too busy" and needed to cut something out of his schedule. That of course, added to my despair and anger this week-end.<P>Are you both seeing a counselor? I think we have almost waited too long. I think I always feel I should try and "handle it" and he wasn't motivated and doesn't like to address issues anyway. I am thinking of calling one of the Harleys.<P>Well, another discouraging post. Let me know how you are doing. I think our situations are especially hard because our husbands seem so nice (at least mine does), but no one can see the absolute frustration it is to live with. Talking about it just makes it seem like you are complaining and people try to "fix" it with a few suggestions. Those few suggestions can't fix it because the problem has a different root. Sigh.<P>I do have Power of a Praying Wife and just got it out again yesterday. I think that is where I need to be, but having such a hard time controlling all these feelings rising up. Maybe Satan really has a foothold with me.<p>[This message has been edited by siftedlikewheat (edited September 11, 2000).]

Well, take heart my sisters because the battle extends here as well. The only thing I can think of is that we must be on the right track and the evil one is working overtime. Pastor says when H makes disparaging remarks that I must put the bag back on his shoulder and ask him what he wants to do about it. The hateful garbage that comes out of his mouth just cowers my heart. Told the Lord last night that I really think he overestimated me here. I am not woman enough to battle this one, not a pity party, just a hard look at reality and what it takes. The Roman's 7 chapter stays in my mind, wanting to do right and doing wrong. I am just wiped out.

up for Julesh.

Putting the bag back on his shoulders? What happens when you do that? <P>When I hear my husband throwing a temper tantrum, (usually over something really stupid) I feel my heart start racing.... my immediate response is "go fix it, so he isn't upset..." then I have to remind myself of the boundary thread and say to myself....<P>"He's upset, it isn't my problem, I don't own his problem, I won't fix his problem, I am cheating him out of his own life's experiences if I jump in and fix his problem, It's not my problem, don't be upset, those are old ways of thinking, and you have a new way to react and think now..."<P>Hugs to you.<BR>TNT