I've not been reading or praying at all this week. And it's telling on my attitude, because I've been VERY disrespectful to my H, behind his back, all week. I'm feeling really bad about this, very much ashamed, and he's been so sweet to me, even paying me complements, and giving me extra attention.<P>My health has been bad lately (no excuse!), my nerves/hormones have been running/ruining my life. I'm still full of bitterness and my attitude is so bad. I'm stuffing all that so my H doesn't see it, but I'm so negative about him towards everyone else. Today, I was telling a new "friend" about something my H said about me weeks ago that was embarassing and hurtful. She then remarked about a woman whose husband had a brief "fling" five years previous, and she was still doing mean and hurtful things to her husband out of vengance. This friend doesn't know about my H's affair, or how I'm feeling right now, but what she said made me balk! I don't want to be like that in five years! Or even five months!<P>So, why can't I give it up? Why can't I just stop? Why can't I pray it away? Why does it feel like I'm trying to give it up to God, but it's just stuck to my hands like duct tape?<P>Perhaps I need to get past chapter 1 of POPW? Stop focusing on me? Pray directly for him?<P>Father, what am I not understanding? Why is my love for my H not being rekindled? Why are these "extra" daily trials being heaped upon me? They are so distracting! I know I can't handle them! YOU know I can't handle them. I'm trying to give them to you, but more keep coming. I need sleep, and even that escapes me. I can't think straight to pray. Please tell me what to do?

Yes, my sister, there is a study guide and I think Karenna is right and that we need to get back with the program in our combining efforts to pull all these resources together.<P>Perhaps your heart problem and lack of sleep has to do with an issue between you and God, as mine was revealed to me this past week, the realization about the lack of forgiveness in spite of the Lord saying, "But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins." (Matt 6:15) and that we are to forgive as he forgave us, even to the point of sacrificing his life that we might be reconciled to the Father.<P>You say that your husband is being very loving and sweet and your bitterness is being harbored internally. Knowing that God judges all sin the same, how do you balance not forgiving his sin in light of the ones you have committed and been forgiven for? I think you are on the right track when you say that perhaps you need to get past chapter one to pray specifically for your hubby. It might help in the process to take captive every thought and to rebuke those that are not honoring to God and your husband so that you will not harm him by talking with others about him. We all want a man that we can look up to, that others will also regard as a neat person. If we are sharing that we don't respect and honor them, how can we expect others to do so? <P>I do have four people that I share my thoughts with in regards to the issues going on in my house, but I use them for helping me to sort out God's way of responding to the situation, to help me clarify the biblical principles going on so that as I work on that log in my eye, I can see where I am failing or how I need to respond differently. So, I may say to friend, here is the situation, what am I missing...? See the difference?<P>I do want to pray that God will bless my husband for as He blesses him, then I will be blessed. As God reveals Himself to my husband, then his heart will soften towards me hopefully, etc.<P>Hope this helps.<P>Father, reach out and hold JP this day, let her feel your presence in a mighty way. Rip out the bitternes root from her heart and show her where the issue is that she is letting it take hold, whether it is in her thought life, unforgiveness, etc. Show her how to respond to the love of her husband as you love her and their marriage. Help her to take down the barriers of her heart, to rest in the safety of you for you have said " I will lie down and sleep in peace, for you alone, O LORD, make me dwell in safety." (PS 4:8)<P>We continually ask that you guide this study and show us where we need to focus to learn what you would have us learn. IJN, Amen.

JP, (I think this turned into a book, sorry)<BR>So many things you say sounds familiar, and like Sue said, God has revealed many things to me also these last two weeks. So much learning. <BR>From the beginning: God has for a long time placed on my heart the need to seek Him for Him alone. He should be enough for us. To go back a few years. Before this mess started (my h's affair) God was working on me. I too had built up a lot of resentment (and the affair hafdn't even happened yet). One of the Chaplains talked to us about emotional health. He talked about the negatives that we build up over time, such as bitterness, resentment, worries, hurts, etc. Now imagine carrying all those on your back. Until you unload them they are weighing you down. <P>When I left the seminar that day I was so convicted. I read somewehere about writing them all down. So for 3 hours I sat at the computer typing out all the things that had happened in my life that I was resentful over or hurt over. When I was done, I prayed over each. Then in my head I imagined one of those big red and white checkered table cloths. I imagined taking that list and all the items on it and dropping them in the middle. Then I folded each corner toward the middle to form a sack that could be carried. I said okay Lord, these are yours. I forgive all those that have hurt me and I forgive myself of those things I need to let go of. Please take these away. <P>I imagined Jesus taking them away. Then I printed off the list I had made and tore it into a million pieces and threw them away and deleted the list on line. They were gone. I didn't even think about them. I believed that God had taken them and never looked back. To this day I can't remember any specifics that were on the list. I felt like 1 million pounds had been lifted off my shoulders. It was the most amazing feeling. But you have to believe, accept that He has taken these with no second thoughts.<P>That was the beginning. Since then in a slow process that keeps coming back, He has said to me, "Seek Me with all your heart." I have done it for a while, but then it just fades away, (satan works in me to allow me to just get lazy). Since Jan the conviction has come more frequently.<P>I have been asking Him to break the strongholds in my life. He has been so gracious to do this, though I admit I didn't realize that was what He was doing a few weeks ago when I felt so terrible about a bunch of stuff from the past. But then He reminded me, I prayed for this. Three weeks ago I got myself a new journal/diary from Barnes and Noble. I dedicated this journal to record the journey of seeking God with all my heart. It has truely been amazing. <P>I have my thoughts, His convictions and poems, songs and other writings that have helped me on this new journey. He has shown me many strongholds in my life that I didn't know existed. He brought verses to mind that have been helpful and for some reason this time really sunk in. Many are verses He has given me over and over during the last few years, yet all of a sudden have new meaning. He has opened my eyes to so many things. Friends, emails and books I have picked up to read have all been consistent in whatever He was teaching me and showing me that day. It is all fitting together. <P>But it didn't happen until I said Lord, I want to seek You with all my heart, but I need Your help even in this. My change of action has been to pray this prayer everyday. To read the Bible more, though I could get a lot better at this. To challenge myself to ask questions about what God wants. To ask Him to change me everyday, and to record what He has been telling me through the sermons, readings and convictions. <P>Everyday I start out with a blank page, somedays I have thoughts to begin with on other days I don't. Then I pull out a verse such as Matthew 6:33 "Seek Him and His righteousness..." or I look at an older study that I have done recording the lessons from then. Somehow it just goes on from there. In fact it takes on a life of its own, God's direction. <P>What has been so helpful for me is that I forget the lessons so easily. Here it is all together and I reread much of it each day. Then I get new thoughts etc. I have put poems that meant something to me or words to songs that touch me in someway and speak of seeking God. But none of this happened until I started the effort. But I didn't second guess or ask, "Will He show me something today?" I just did it and I believed He would, and He has.<P>The other thing you mentioned and the newest stronghold He is working on in me, is my thinking and talking about the circumstances.<BR>In the sermon on Sunday our pastor talked about being willing to give up our best things. They too can be idols. My husband and the marriage is all I have thought about. I had to be willing to give him up. That got me thinking about a lot of things.<P> The next thought which has been there for a while is that I need to stop thinking about it. Man some days that is all I think about. How interesting a person can I be if I only think about this. How is there time for more productive thoughts about God and seeking HIm if I am always thinking about the circumstances. It answers the question where does all my time go. <P>Next came the conviction that with many friends that is the biggest part of the conversation, oh, my poor firends, they must be sooooooooooo sick of this. Then yesterday came the conviction that thoughts/complaints about my h's treatment of me has been the topic of my thoughts for years.(This was not a stronghold that could easily be uprooted. the roots went all the way to China I think, maybe hell even.) <P>In the past I would only complain and do nothing about it. At least now (taught to me during the last few years) I will approach the infraction with love to my h. But I have complained internally for years. And as Sue pointed out this is sin whether it is internal rather than external. And from keeping it in so long, is exactly what led to the need for three + pages of resentments that had built up during the years to be taken out.<P>God has been doing a mighty weeding in this here garden patch. The garbage He has helped me unload is amazing.<P>Okay and then last night I read something that came to me from another group and it added to the understanding of why I must stop talking about and thinking about my circumstances. Essentially it says that anything we say can and will be used against us by satan. The miranda rights tell us that we should remain silent. Often it is best that we remain silent about our circumstances. <P>The article says the minute we start talking about them then we are allowing them to take precedence in our thinking and daily life. (I stand convicted, LOL) We thus open the door for satan to take advantage and exploit them to his advantage. And subsequently, if we exert our right to complain, that gives the devil the right to take what we say and use it to his advantage against us, and God reminded this women who wrote about this that, the devil most definately uses our words against us. Wow, I stood totally convicted. <P>Then this morning I thought about the grumbling of the Israelites in the desert. I think the article actually talked about them also. Grumbling, hum.... I had to ask myself when I think about my h and am complaining about him to others or even in my head, am I grumbling? Oh, yes came the resounding response!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <P>I had to face the fact that I have been grumbling for 23 years. I use to grumble big time when I didn't think I could stand up to my h's subtle criticisms. And even though that got better in the last few years when he had changed some and I could stand up to him, low and behold I had a new set of grumblings, his affair. Wow! I cried out to God, convicted. But you know what, I was not destroyed in fact I actually smiled and felt good. God had convicted me to change me for good and I was forgiven. I was so excited that He revealed this all to me. Wow!! Because now I could do something about it.<P>So, I wrote what will I do with all the extra time I'll have since I am not thinking about it all the time. Oh and how do I stop. Like anything it had become a bad habit. It was resistant at first, but it takes being conscious of it and as soon as you realize you are doing it, you have to stop yourself. I have decided to praise God whenever I become aware of thinking about it or grumbling about it. Now, I find already it is easier to do without, and to stop it.<P> Now the other piece is what do I talk to people about? Leaving out that topic leaves a big gap. So, I will read the Bible more , I will continue to seek God with all my heart and I will read about something new everyday. I will take up the guitar and practice everyday. I am currently in the beginning the second half of a master's program for social work/counseling. Maybe I'll have more time to read the stuff I should be reading.<P>It is exciting. We all have to grow, and your journey will be different, PJ. But it begins with asking God to help you down the path of seeking Him with all your heart. Then don't second guess what is He showing you, determine He is showing you something all the time from many sourses. <P>If it is hard to get started on your own then pull out a Bible study and use that as a guide. I have an old one called "Beholding Your God." Since it talks about the attributes of God and the promises of God that we can stand on by getting to know Him it helped me get started also.<P>God is faithful, but I know with me sometimes I say show me Lord, but instead of really looking or taking the initiative I have grumbled I don't see anything happening, what is wrong? I find that if I would read a verse and ponder it, or get out an old study an ask questions I would find Him telling me things everyday. <P>My biggest challenge is doing this consistently. Having this journal has really helped me. Even before God revealed all this to me I determined that this particular journal would be just about seeking Him. So I have not included a lot of commentary about my current circumstances. Just what God was going to lead me to. Because He wants me to seek Him and His righteousness rather than dwell on my life and circumstances. I read in a new book, written by one of our associate pastors, about the life of Joseph. One of the things it says is that Joseph let God's promises and not his circumstances govern his life. That is my goal. It is an ever evolving process from now until I die, but I have begun. <P>I looked at the promises that Joseph possibly stood on during his trials and then have begun to look at the promises that God has given me, backing it up with the verse. <BR>I find this exciting, because I have begun to see My God more personally as I see how He is working in me. <P>So much of this has been a challenge and I have cried many tears, but I am excited also to see Him working through me. The realization that the God of the universe takes so much interest in each one of us is amazing. He is a God that knows us and wants to help us know Him and to have a greater life in Him. It is a mystery, but God accomplishes what He wills if we will just be receptive.<P>I pray that this has not been too long to wade through and that this helps you in some way. I just felt I should share this, and I know the Father wants to show you His wonderful love also.<P>Father, <BR>I praise You for this daughter of Yours who is hungry for You. Lord, lead her down the path of a greater relationship with You. Increase her thirst to know You, increase her faith in You. Holy Spirit touch her heart and call her according to Your leadings for her life. Reveal Your truths and Yourself to her. Father, we praise You that You are the living God who is willing to meet us where we are and willing with much patience, love, grace, gentleness and kindness to personally over see our journey and our spiritual growth toward a closer walk with YOu. Lord I love walking in the garden with You, show PJ how to walk in the garden with You. Although the weeding process inside of me sometimes pinches, I feel so much freer to live a much better life as You have given me. Work in PJ according to Your will and purpose for her life. Your gifts are good gifts and You only know how to give us these good gifts. Give PJ Your good gifts picked out just for her. We know that You must correct us and mold us in Christ's image. Let us all come willingly to You and be willing to give up our best in order to receive Your best for our lives. In Jesus name, Amen. <BR><p>[This message has been edited by hw (edited August 31, 2000).]

Okay! I'm finally getting some insight here! Thanks.<P>Sue, you nailed it right on the head in your first two paragraphs. What I have been doing is not equating my sin to that of my H's at all. I've been viewing my sins as understandable behavior for someone who was molested as a child, became a compulsive liar at an early age, suffered post traumatic stress disorder, has an eating disorder fostered by my upbringing, and grew up in a cult church with parents who continued the cycle of abuse. I've been carrying those dead weights around for years, like some big excuse for my current behavior. On the other hand, my H grew up in a normal family with a happy childhood and good parents, behaved all his life with dignity,responsibility, care and compassion, and suddenly blew it all for a week long fling. When I talk about my past sins, I talk and think in gentle tones, as one who has "overcome so much". When I think about my H's past sin, it is with such venom and pain. I need to ask for forgiveness for the attitude I've harbored for so long. Obviously, this is the topic of this week's day of fasting and prayer. Forgiveness and pride.<P>While I was attending the Weigh Down Workshop, I learned about having to pray everytime I wanted to eat when I wasn't hungry. I realize now that so many of my strongholds (and there are so many!) need to be prayed over constantly. I've even fallen back to struggling with eating when not hungry. God wants my attention 24/7, and I have allowed myself distractions that have become strongholds now. Worry, overeating, gossip, anger, pride, bitterness, deceit. It's never about, "Look how far I've come, I can coast from here." It's always, "Look how far I've still got to go!"<P>My new friend, who I mentioned earlier, is turning out to truely be a friend. When I find women to share my heart's desire for my relationship with God, Woa! What a blessing that is! Just like finally stumbling across you gals, who are so eager to allow God to open your hearts to effective healing, and be such a comfort to so many of us who are struggling. Somedays I come on for a chat, and just read and read and read (gosh, some of you are as chatty as I am!), and you've said it all, and I am filled with new things to think on, new scriptures to go read, more fuel for prayer.<P>I've really needed someone to talk with, confess to, cry and laugh with. I was trying to make my H to be that person, but it just isn't in him, and to be truthful, I haven't earned that trust from him in any way. He's always needed a spiritual mentor, and he's picked the most awful ones over the years. I wish he could find someone to talk to as well. (We don't have a pastor out here in the jungle.) Another thing to pray for.<P>And hindsight shows me such tremendous evidence of God working in my life. Look how much HE's accomplished in me! I don't lie to manipulate people anymore, I'm better at giving of myself and serving God as He sees fit (not in order to "make points"), I am a loving mother who teaches her children about our loving Lord because I am convinced of His heart for us, and I understand so much more (but never enough!) about surrendering my will to Him and giving my life to Him. Such important lessons! And it only took 39 years!<P>hw, I love the idea of the journal about seeking God. I too am a journal keeper (as a form of prayer), though for several months I haven't been writing. I had been writing everything negatively. I was so depressed. I wrote to God how I despised my H, how I was in so much pain, how I thought I could never love my H ever again. I thought I had kept that journal hidden pretty well, and had trusted my H not to read it, because I had asked him not to. Well, that one scathingly negative entry, he read it. He blamed me for leaving it out in the open (in the side pocket of one of my suitcases in the closet?) and I just haven't felt like writing since, or praying. I guess satan really fished that one out.<P>I have a book I'm anxious to start reading (and what a library we've all amassed). "The Sacred Romance, Drawing Closer to the Heart of God" by Curtis and Eldredge. There's a quote at the beginning of chapter 1 by A. W. Tozer, "Thirsty hearts are those whose longings have been wakened by the touch of God within them." It gives me hope and reassurance that God is still with me, for my heart is so thirsty now, and the author of those longings for healing, wholeness, and love all come from God.<P>I too need to stop talking about and stop think about our circumstances. I obsess about it at night and that is why I can't sleep. I have prayed for relief, but can't seem to let it go. I need peace from this so badly. I see how praying for my H can change my view. And he's changing too. God is working on his heart as well. I guess it's patience that I'm lacking. Okay, once again, bring my thoughts and what comes out of my mouth into subjection, and to think about it in term of not giving satan any more ammunition is great! He's been stomping around in my section of God's garden long enough! What to do instead? Pray, and exercise. Oh, Father in heaven, just one more set of situps! <P>James 1:3,4 For when your faith is tested, your endurance has a chance to grow. So let it grow, for when your endurance is fully developed, you will be strong in character and ready for anything.<P>God promised me peace, a light heart, my mourning will turn into joyful dancing, and I will have guidance along the best pathways for my life. And unfailing love. I can live with that!<P>Thanks dear sisters. The fruit you bear gives the highest praise for our Father.<BR>JP

Wow, jp<BR>You are definately in a different place then yesterday. Praise the Lord, so much growing we need to do and so much weeding God has to do in us, when we let Him. 2Chronicals 15:2 says "...The Lord, is with you when you are with Him. If you seek Him, He will be found by you." This verse crossed my heart today again. We have to come to Him and then He is faithful. But I also loved the James 1:3-4. Thanks.<P>Father we thank you for the growth spurt you are putting us all through. Wow, it is humbling and painful sometimes but oh so exciting. I praise you Lord, that You want us and come to us so graciously. In Jesus name, Amen.

double post sorry<p>[This message has been edited by hw (edited September 01, 2000).]

Wow! JP. God is doing mighty stuff out there in the jungle! It was a blessing to read your post to see how He has touched you today. And I really appreciated your honesty about where you have been and how far the Lord has brought you. What a comfort and a blessing you will be to others who have experienced those things you have gone through. I am so glad the the Lord has brought you a new friend in Christ who will grow with you and challenge you too!<P>We praise you Father for the mighty work you are and will do in JP's life and marriage. Father, help her to look to you to fill her hunger and thirst for you are the living water that satisfies. Continue to teach our sister and to strengthen her and her marriage that she will be able to do whatever work you have planned for her to do through this trial that they have gone through. <P>thank you for this forum and for your willingness to be in the midst of it, for bringing so many women here and for binding our hearts with your heart. Mold us Father, IJN, Amen.