I have been doing alot of browsing through the various forums on MB. Truly this forum is unique in that we try very hard to maintain a positive approach to our posts. That is not to say we are perfect, hardly, we just know that negativity leads to a downward spiral and none of us want that any more often then it happens naturally.<P>Anyways, after reading many posts this past week I have pondered how important obedience is. We have been discussing trust and the need to know the person we are seeking to trust. We are seeking in this discussion to trust God more and in order to do that we must begin to search for understanding of who He is and what He expects of us.<P>Whether we are the betrayed or the betrayer we need to make a decision whether or not we are going to be obedient to what God expects.<P>I had to choose to stay with my h and not turn my back on my marriage. On the flip side my h had to choose to give up the op and make our marriage a priority.<P>Now this all sounds very simple, but is it? I would appreciate feedback from others concerning their struggles with obeying God's commands. If we think we can "ride the fence", I believe we are still in the grips of the deceiver. Is obedience easy? Hardly, but it is truly the only way to full restoration.<P>Let us seek to encourage one another toward the good work of obedience.<P>Taj<P>------------------<BR>"Perfect love casts out fear" I John 4:18

Taj,<P>I totally agree with you. I have even read that God is not really concerned about happiness either, it is holiness and righteousness that is more His concern, which comes from obedience.<P>As a stander for my marriage, everyone thinks I am nuts. Let's face it things don't seem to be getting better, but I know that God is working, but those that don't believe can't even forsee or understand that. <P>When my daughter says she wants to see me go out, and tells me everyone thinks I'm crazy, I say, "all that matters in the end is what God thinks of me; that I please God." His way is not the way of the world. But even though He is not concerned about our happiness, guess what when we obey and stay close to Him we are happy. <P>I thought yesterday to myself, My h has the woman of his dreams and more money than he has ever made, and yet, I don't see him any different or happier today then when he was living with me a year a go and supposedly so miserable. <P>The kids and I have gone through all this ordeal together and we are indeed happy and doing fine. I still have my days, but it makes me shake my head and wonder. I have more love for this man, my h, today than a year ago. That comes from dealing with my stuff before God, making God my first priority, staying close to Him in prayer and with lots of praising. <P>I have continually healed and felt better about everything throughout the last year, as well as having this unexplainable growing love for my h. I have peace and he does not.<P>I believe that the difference comes from obedience that builds trust with God. I think the most important difference I have seen, is that since I have really been seeking Him, I am more at peace. I am standing on His promises not the circumstances. In fact I ignore the circumstances. When they do invade my thoughts, I start praising the Lord.<P>The latest thing the Lord, has shown me is how much grumbling I have done through the years. Complaining about the situation, but not giving it to God or trying to do what was within my power to change. This is precisely the problem the Israelites had. <P>God provided everything for them in the desert, but still they grumbled, and they never saw the promised land. Grumbling does not have to be spoken out loud either. Grumbling to ourselves is just as bad. <P>God has been changing me, as I have more and more allowed Him to. When things seem dismal, I remember that God has allowed this, and He will use this for my good. God's nature doesn't allow for it to be any other way. His nature is truth, and love that works all things for the good. I have seen the good, and I am trusting that although I don't see it now, God is working. <P>God hates divorce, therefore He has to be working in my life against this. Yes, my h has free will, but God can motivate this free will, if He couldn't then none of us would be saved.<P>One thing I realized yesterday, a minister and his family just moved in below my h and the ow's brother is a minister. If my mother-in-law is correct the ow's brother is a minister with a Jesus believing organization. So putting it all together it is a sign to me that God is indeed working in ways I never could have imagined and it will be for our good and Hid glory. <P>God wants our obedience for our own good, just like we want obedience from our own children. In God's purity the obedience He demands is what develops us into Christlikeness. When we are more Christlike, we are people who love others above our selves and serve God. This nature that develops in us through Christ makes us a better person and gives God the glory which testifies to the goodness of God.<BR> <BR>It is amazing, and very much a mystery of how He does it. But He does and will when we seek Him with all our hearts and are willing to say, "I trust You, I believe in Your promises and precepts. Therefore I will obey You because You will use it to prosper me not to harm me and give me hope and a future in Your glorious Kingdom, Father. Thanks You, Lord.<P>Father,<BR>Will in us to act and to seek You. Move in us to seek You with all our hearts. Lord Your plan is perfect and above all we could think of. Lord, when we truly come to the place where we are at the end of ourselves and realize we no longer have the answers or can control the circumstances, then You can come in and make the necessary changes within ourselves, others and the circumstances. Let us all come before You and surrender ourselves and wills to Your great truths, and promises. Lord, change us and make us more like Christ. Lord have Your way with our lives it is not ours, but to serve and obey. Thank You, dear Lord. In Jesus name, Amen.<p>[This message has been edited by hw (edited September 06, 2000).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Taj:<BR><B>Whether we are the betrayed or the betrayer we need to make a decision whether or not we are going to be obedient to what God expects.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>That's the question, isn' it? What does God expect of us? We know He hates divorce. We know He said "What [I have] joined together, let no man put assunder."<P>So, when a man (or woman - our spouse) does sin and does put it assunder, how are we supposed to act? I think that's the crux of the situation! The Bible has lots to say about divorce, etc....it's hard to figure it all out! It really is. What do you do with verses that say if your husband leaves you, let him...you are not bound under those circumstances? You got me....what does THAT mean? And what happens to MY vow?!? Just because my husband sins and breaks his vow, does this verse mean that I am no longer bound to my vow?<P>I want, with all my heart, to be obedient to God. I just don't know sometimes what that means exactly...specifically. I have to get up each day and figure out how I'm gonna respond to that day's challenges. I too am a "stander" but I don't want to become a "slave" to the law...to my stand. I want to hear God and do His will in each and every situation I am in....regardless if it's Plan A, Plan B, standing, etc....I don't want the "stand" to become the thing I stand upon...I want it to be God!<P>Good topic....It's one I wrestle with often. Thanks for bringing it up. Any comments are more than welcome....<P>Aloha,<BR>Mrs.O<P>

hw,<P>shorter paragraphs, please, please!<P>I love to read your posts, but my old screen is a killer to stare at for very long. I think I miss some of your wisdom because I give up trying not to lose my place in the paragraphs.<P>Thanks.<P>lizzie

First off, I agree with Lizzie, one of the biggest hurdles to sticking with a topic is if it is posted in one big paragraph. I guess I am lazy but I get bogged down in the wordiness. Let's all try and break up our paragraphs. I'm guilty as charged! <P>Mrs. O,<P>Your remark hit me full in the face:<BR>{quote}I want, with all my heart, to be obedient to God. I just don't know sometimes what that means exactly...specifically{quote}<P>Your willingness to know God's will is all it takes. He wants you to know His will, that is a part of His expectations for you. That alone is the starting point and we must trust Him to reveal His will to us. <P>Sometimes I believe it is just one step at a time. Stormie Omartian has written another book, "Just enough light for the step I'm on". That is what I am saying, if you begin your day seeking God's will then you must trust that He will reveal it to you.<P>I feel we must never put God in a box or put our own expectations on another. Churches make the grave mistake of seeing everything as black and white, sometimes it truly is many-colored just like Joseph's coat. God is so creative and that means He deals with us as individuals.<P>hw,<P>You're obedience is different then mine, and I must say from my vantage point you are in a much narrower spot. I admire your ability to remain faithful even when you are up against resistance. God deals with you differently then he does me. But....He is expecting obedience from us both.<P>The bible says God desires obedience not sacrifice. We can all help each other to obey even when we are in different circumstances.<P>Let us all try and be aware of the colorful coat of another which may be shades different then ours.<P>Father, help us to be obedient children. Show us you specific will for our circumstances. Show us when we are to turn to the right or the left, shine your light of truth so we may Know beyond all doubt what you expect of us. IJN<P>Blessings, Taj<P><BR>------------------<BR>"Perfect love casts out fear" I John 4:18<p>[This message has been edited by Taj (edited September 06, 2000).]

This is a wonderful topic! I have had many peers tell me to leave my husband. I say peers because a friend would not encourage disobedience. I truly believe God put my husband and I together, not sure if it was for my learning to love in a greater capacity than previously or for my dear hubby to learn to accept love in a different way than he previously has experienced it, but I do know God has his hand in it.<P>Paragraph for Lizzie <P>The experiencing God book has some wonderful thoughts on this...I think we have mentioned before about us not being able to stay where we are and go with God and how this means we truly have to jump in with both feet and in faith be obedient to His leading at times.<P>Satan loves discord and confusion and desires for us to doubt and James gives us the warning about that. I am finding that in seeking God and learning his character through the study of his word, that I must stand on his word no matter what. Sometimes I have to drag out the Strong's concordance to understand a word or a sentence in the context that the Lord meant it for my humanness has a tendency to water it down.<P>The problems in my marriage on the surface seem to be one thing, but in digging through it all, truly is a spiritual battle and the question has to be who will we follow? If my husband were to leave and file for divorce, that piece is out of my hands and I would have to watch and see what it is that God wants me to do next. The vow is to honor and cherish and I seek to understand what that means, understand in God's terms and not man's.<P>Mrs. O, the same experiencing God book talks about doing what you think God would have you do until God tells you differently. In the uncertainty of the relationship, you have the joy of learning more about relationships from the designer of relationships. It is kind of like I am trying to become the woman God wants me to become, the quiet and gentle spirit who can laugh at the future, knowing where my confidence comes from.<P>As I continue on this path of seeking, I am noticing I am able to share my thoughts and my convictions more clearly, honestly and with greater vulnerability than in the past. I am noticing that God is working on my hubby and that I need to stay out of His way or when I am in direct contact, I need to make sure I am honoring and respectful, but still firm to what I believe God says is holy and righteous living. <P>We have to be obedient to what He tells us, no matter what anyone else thinks. It is the counsel of our peers and sisters in Christ that should help us to sort out His word for the truth of things. Anything contrary to His word is not of God. Anyway, that is how I am discerning it. Hope that helps.<P>Do teach and mold us into Your likeness Father, with your traits burnt into our hearts. Let us continually seek to gain the fruits of the spirit-filled life. Let us hear your gentle whisper above the din of anything against your will for us. IJN, Amen.

SueB,<P>Couldn't agree with you more, our standard must be the Word of God. It will never lead us anywhere but to understand the Author and His desires for our fruitfulness.<P>It has been said, our purpose in this life is to glorify God and praise His name forever. That is His will for us and He clearly shows us the way in the bible. It is man alone with the trickery of the enemy who has brought confusion to the Word. God says, I am not the Author of Confusion.<P>One thing is for sure. Once God shows us His will we must obey or reap the consequences, if we believe otherwise we are deceiving ourselves.<P>I would rather live one day in the center of God's will then a lifetime a part from it.<P>Taj

I was inspired reading through this post and found that I could relate to many of the comments made here.<P>A couple of weeks ago, I called by H and told him I had decided I would give him what he wants -- a D, that I wouldn't fight it anymore and further, I would help him complete the do-it-yourself papers. <P>But, God had something else in mind. The next few days, I was barraged with messages from Him NOT to give up so easily. I looked to His word and He lead me directly to Hebrews 10 and 11, dealing with perseverance and faithfulness. I cried, knowing that God was telling me to stand firm and have faith -- and be *patient*!. <P>So, a few days later when my H came to the house, divorce papers in hand, I told him I'd been praying and searching my heart and that I just couldn't do it. I didn't want the divorce and I couldn't help him with it. When he asked why not, I told him I loved him and knew that I could be a better wife than I'd been. I stood up for our marriage. I took my "stand". I was shaking like a leaf the whole time!!<P>Reading what you have shared here helps me to know that I made the right decision in being obedient to God's will. Since the separation between my H and I is still pretty fresh, I have struggled mightily with patience and allowing God the time He needs to do His work. <P>I have felt from the start of all this, that I must stay focused on God and not allow Satan any footholds. I'm still working on putting it *all* into God's hands, and each finger is slowly being pried up gently and lovingly. I feel that I will find the strength here amongst you to open the last one and finally let go.<P>hw, I so admire your courage to endure in God's will! I have much to learn, I know, but my spirit is willing and my heart is open.<P>Love and Prayers,<BR>KristyAnn<BR>