qu, I'm praying in agreement with these sisters for you. For your strength, faith and salvation. Because, First, this is a crisis of faith. Second, it is a crisis in your marriage. Third, it is a crisis of integrity, your own identity is at stake.<P>Please understand that there are many highly charismatic predators out there. You describe your OM as one of the very dangerous types of sexual/emotional/spiritual predators. <P>Please re-read that post on infatuation I put up a couple of times. He desires to possess your sweet, gracious or assertive personal traits, just as you desire his competencies, fluencies and social skills. This is sick.<P>So,<P>First, come back to God. Read your Bible every day. Make an appointment and go confess out loud to your pastor and to your husband. Begin the process of repentance with a broken heart and lay the burden of sin and the weight of desire at the foot of the cross.<P>Second, Come back to your husband. He is the same man you married and you can rebuild a better relationship than ever using the MB and biblical principles. Take a couples workshop or retreat. Spend the time it takes to come together again. EA's don't just happen because a predator or hunk walks up! Read one of Dr. Harley's books for starters. The theme of another book I am studying is that marriage is the most efficient "people growing" crucible there is!<P>Third, Take hold of yourself. Get a grip. Stop neglecting your own needs and responsibilities. I would have said this even if you hadn't described the way you have let your dignity and self-respect slide by ignoring your duties and healthful practices. <P>Slow down and take ownership of your own life. It belongs to you. It is a gift from God. It is not to be sacrificed on the altar of romance, marriage, or even motherhood. Your stewardship over your life is yours to hold. <P>Dedicating yourself to other causes must only be done in the context of being dedicated to the Lord first. Then following His commandments, promises and inspirations will lead you to act with full personal integrity, as the person you were meant to be, fulfilling your life's mission. How does clinging to the OM help you fulfill your role in God's purposes?<P>qu, you have an important work to do in the world, but you have lost sight of God's plan for your life. <P>I am afraid that I have done what you are doing at least three times in my life, to my everlasting shame. Won't I ever learn!!! Unfortunately, it took way too many years to return to the strait and narrow. I keep willfully jumping off, even yet. Mortal_moral_weakness is probably my middle name. <P>God has a way of teaching me my lessons the Hard Way. If I were less rebellious I could absorb them the Easy Way - vicariously. Please humble yourself so you will not be carefully led away unto your soul's destruction!<P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by Karenna (edited September 14, 2000).]

qu78<P>There are some things that God will not do in our lives. One is breaking our will to give in to our flesh. I too have been in the same situation that you are in. I read your passage on last week, and in spite of how the OM seems to be the "bomb", and he seems to be prospering. It is all a lie of the enemy. If this man has a wife and another woman on the side and of course you, what makes you think that he loves you? Please open your eyes and see what is going on. The OM that was in my life, made me feel like I was the only one he ever loved, when in fact there where several others. Regardless of your emotions, let it go, it is not worth it. It is not worth your soul, and that is what is about. You might think that I am being very hard, but you are being very selfish, and you are only thinking about what is pleasing to your flesh. I know that there are seasons when we seem unfulfilled but what you need is not in the OM, it is the Lord! You have got to take inventory over your life. It is not about God strenghting you to come out of this situation. It is about having a made up mind for God I'll live and for God I'll die. It is about making Jesus Lord over your life. Yes! We all have our struggles, because I have some right now, but when you willfully sin against God, you will reap what you are sowing. Trust me, God will bring it all in the open after he has given you the chance to straighten the situation out! It is better for to keep yourself in a position where God can work on your side.<BR>In other words you are going to cry and struggle with areas of your life regardless, but it is better to do it for righteousness sake.<P>

Today, thursday....I do admit that I am very frustrated at this time. But I've read every reply and thank God for your prayers.<P>The OP has stated that he feels like I am still a woman of God. Yes! I agree that, that is a strange statement for him to make.<P>He has told me to just pretend for the people's sake. He has stated in the past that he only does what he needs to do.<P>He seems to be getting by just fine, even with all of his deceit. He is very successful, very well liked, sings, does everything. Still receives blessings galore.<P>Yet I feel deprived of blessings at this point in my life. I don't want to be a hypocrite, therefore I force myself to pray but I will not sing, or teach or work in God's kingdom if my heart is not right.<P>The OP and I have stated that we would help eachother (I know how can we do that)?-----because we are friends first.<P>I thank all of you. I just need to be very quiet right now, and get my house in order. Try to focus on my studies at school and the children. I don't even want to talk to the OP. I want to focus on me.<P>Today, I need physical strength----to just get up***to move--to function. The OP is in my head so much that I can't move. And these are not sexual thoughts! They are thoughts of what I feel is love...I do not want to have sex. that is not what this is about at all. I do not feel like I have the right to pray. But I do pray for my children. But for myself I cannot.<P>I will keep all of you posted. I promise.<P>***the reason I want to keep you posted is because regardless of what I'm going thru, I do realize that the prayers of the righteous availeth much.<P>God Bless

God bless YOU, qu! The battle is not over until you give up. And the war is already won. Whose side you will be found on may still be in doubt. <P>Agape? Amore? <P><BR>Christ-like love, Romantic love, lustful thoughts... All different. You can care for the salvation of OM's soul, and his well-being, without being caught up in a NEED for validation from him. Work on self-validation. This will be hard while you are depressed and going through withdrawal. Try St. John's Wort or get a prescription if you need to have some help getting back on your feet. That is not copping out!<P>And life is not fair. God is fair. There is more equality in the tests and trials we are each put through than appears on the surface. Come back to Jesus and let him carry your burdens!<P>Your concern ought not be the apparant "blessings" being enjoyed by Lothario over there. For all we know those very blessings may be the sorest temptation and trial his soul will ever undergo! They lead to PRIDE, the deadliest sin.<P>Our love and prayers go with you, qu!<p>[This message has been edited by Karenna (edited September 14, 2000).]

I feel for the trial you are going through and praise God that you are coming here to get the prayers and fellowship found at this forum. You made one statement that I would like to address. You said that you pray for your children, but that you cannot pray for yourself. At times, I have felt this same feeling, but in desperation I have learned to cry out to our Father no matter what mess I was in. This feeling of unworthiness to call out on our own behalf is a lie of the enemy. Your heavenly Father wants you to turn to him no matter what. He wants you to talk to him from your heart and to have you ask him for help with the situation you are in. I have learned that I should turn first to the Lord, if I feel badly (or convicted) that is the most important time to come clean with him. Remember that he knows you and knows your heart. Nothing is hidden from him (puts me in mind of Adam and Eve attempting to hide their nakedness-it couldn't be done). He is a God of great love, mercy, and forgiveness. The depth of his love is truly unfathomable....but true and you need to trust that love. I will be praying for you.

I just want to reinforce what oneday said. The feeling that you can't pray for yourself is the whispering lies of the enemy. He wins when you shun God. Cry out to HIm in tears and anguish. Read the psalms, there are many where the Psalmist cried out. He wants you even more. He comes to you when you come to Him. Seek Him in tears and sorrow, even anger. He is still there and He is waiting for you to cry out to Him. <BR>Don't be deceived by the enemy any longer.<P>Father,<BR>Protect qu from the deception of the enemy. Cause her to cry out to her God for help. Help her to cry out in her confusion and conflictual feelings. Open her eyes to the deceit of the enemy. Lord, let her feel Your great love for her. Let her know the love you have for her in the glory of Christ. Lord send ministering angels to attend her. Lord her her to praise you in the midst of this trial. "For the chains that seek to bind us, fall powerless behind us when we praise the Lord!" In Jesus name, Amen.

St. John's Wort? Maybe I wil try that. Never tried anything like that before...<P>I look forward to reading your encouraging words, I am very tired of myself (smile)<P>I get tired of my grief, my insecurities. <P>But I will keep reading. I just will not post anymore for a few days.

And when you listen to his words, how do they compare to what the Word says? Pretend? So who does he think he is fooling? I'll lay you 10 to 1 that his wife is aware of his extra curricular activities. That poor woman, to be stuck with a guy like that.<P>So with your last statement then, I am suspecting that if you don't write for a couple of days, you are hoping that this thread disappears. Well, my sisters, I challenge you to write prayers daily in this thread to keep it at the top. qu, you are important to the Lord, you have a purpose in His plan of things.<P>PS 55:1 Listen to my prayer, O God,<BR> do not ignore my plea;<P> PS 55:2 hear me and answer me.<BR> qu's thoughts trouble her and she am distraught<P> PS 55:3 at the voice of the enemy,<BR> at the stares of the wicked; (at the sweet lies that pours from his lips)<BR> for they bring down suffering upon her<BR> and revile her in their anger.<P> PS 55:4 Her heart is in anguish within her;<BR> the terrors of death assail her.<P> PS 55:5 Fear and trembling have beset her;<BR> horror has overwhelmed her.<P> PS 55:6 She says, "Oh, that I had the wings of a dove!<BR> I would fly away and be at rest--<P> PS 55:7 I would flee far away<BR> and stay in the desert;<BR> Selah<P>Give qu your courage Father, to fight this battle and to repel the lies that touch her heart. Thank you for making her aware of the difficulties within her marriage so that now she can battle for the relationship as you designed it to be. Father, use this dispair for good, light a fire of hope within her heart, for you have said that you can turn what was meant for harm into good. Let her husband awaken from his stupor and reach out to his wife. Strike a chord of sensitivity in his heart for his wife. Oh mighty physician, begin the healing process this day. IJn, Amen.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR> Jones, Jim <BR> b. May 13, 1931, near Lynn, Ind., U.S.<BR> d. Nov. 18, 1978, Jonestown, Guyana<P> byname of JAMES WARREN JONES, American cult leader who promised his followers a utopia in<BR> the jungles of South America after proclaiming himself messiah of the People's Temple, a San<BR> Francisco-based evangelist group. He ultimately led his followers into a mass suicide, which<BR> came to be known as the Jonestown Massacre (Nov. 18, 1978). <P> In the 1950s and '60s in Indianapolis, Ind., Jones gained a reputation as a charismatic<BR> churchman, and, after moving his headquarters to northern California in 1965 (first settling near Ukiah and then in San Francisco in 1971), he apparently became obsessed with the exercise of power. In the face of mounting accusations by journalists and defectors from the cult that he was illegally diverting the income of cult members to his own use, Jones and hundreds of his followers emigrated to Guyana and set up an agricultural commune called Jonestown (1977). As ruler of the sect, Jones confiscated passports and millions of dollars and manipulated his followers with threats of blackmail, beatings, and probable death. He also staged bizarre rehearsals for a ritual mass suicide.<P> On Nov. 14, 1978, U.S. Rep. Leo Ryan of California arrived in Guyana with a group of newsmen and relatives of cultists to conduct an unofficial investigation of alleged abuses. Four days later, as Ryan's party and 14 defectors from the cult prepared to leave from an airstrip near Jonestown, Jones ordered the group assassinated. When he learned that only Ryan and four others (including three newsmen) had been killed and that those that had escaped might bring in authorities, Jones activated his suicide plan. On November 18, he commanded his followers to drink cyanide-adulterated punch, an order that the vast majority of them passively and inexplicably obeyed. Jones himself died of a gunshot wound in the head, possibly self-inflicted.<BR> Guyanese troops reached Jonestown the next day, and the death toll of cultists was eventually placed at 913 (including 276 children). from the ENCYCLOPÆDIA BRITANNICA<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I lived in the area when this man first started out. He truly had a heart for God in the beginning and then the evil one grabbed hold of him and pulled him under. One of the things that he had decided, if I remember correctly (been along time ago) was that Mary Magdelin and the other women who followed Jesus and served him, was Jone's perception that they were Jesus' harem and satisfied him sexually and as such, Jones also sexually violated many women and young girls.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Mark 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and miracles to deceive the elect--if that were possible. [23] So be on your guard; I have told you everything ahead of time.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Love you my sister.<BR>

Thank you SueB. I certainly remember reading about Jonestown, but I didn't recall the number of people! Over 900???!!! It boggles the mind. <P>It also boggles my mind that a minister could have qu ready to leave her family and marriage. It's so easy for outsiders to say, how on earth can you fall for this man? Then I think back to my college boyfriend. He loved women. Lots of them. After he graduated, he contemplated continuing his education at a seminary. I laughed and laughed. I said, why? So you can counsel women in distress and then take advantage of them??? The look on his face was like a kid caught in the cookie jar. <P>We'd all like to think that people who are ministers would be above reproach. I thank you, qu, for sharing with us your incredible story and reminding us that things are not always as they seem. I pray for you to become a stronger person.

Hi, I'm new to MB. I am trying to get over an EA. I just wanted to thank you QU for posting your comments. I feel like I can really relate to your feelings of wanting this OM SO much that you are almost willing to give up what you hold dear. I think maybe you really don't want to give up your H - you had the guts still to post and plead for last ditch help. I think you do have the strentgh. God is using this board right now for me through YOU and SUeB an all the others who posted Karenna, etc. I am sitting here thinking how could I have thought this OM could have my met all my needs anyhow??? Doesn;t God say in Psalm 37.4 He will give me the desires of my heart?? How did I forget that? I think hormones raging and emotions can war against our faith and the truth deep inside of us. But you know my faith feels really small right now - about the size of a grain of rice. BUT I still do have faith - there is a God out there He is real and He does hear our cries. I hope & pray you find the right answers. Thank you for helping me through your posting and to all the rest of you who took the time to post. God is great he can use this internet stuff for His glory.

Good morning qu,<P><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>1TI 6:3 If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, [4] he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions [5] and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>May our Father touch you with His loving hand this morning.

Marilynrae,<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>But you know my faith feels really small right now - about the size of a grain of rice.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><B>I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, `Move from here to there' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you."</B> Matt. 17:20<P>A grain of rice is much bigger than a mustard seed, so there is much hope for you! Welcome to the Women's Forum. Glad to have your posting here.<BR>

Good Afternoon SueB, thank you for not giving up on me. I appreciate your prayers.<P>Today was a very small stepping stone. I told the OP that I wanted to step back and that he should triple the affection in his home. <P>His W sounded so happy and content on the phone today. After speaking with her I said to myself, "now that is how I want to sound everyday." He stated to me that he did show her enough affection to reassure her. <P>I told him to keep up the good work. I am stepping back. I cannot play this game. The game is over. If he truly loves me, then one day we will be together, BUT NOT THIS WAY.<P>IS IT OK FOR ME TO SAY GOODBYE, AND WAIT-- AND IF GOD ALLOWS US TO BE TOGETHER, THEN WE WILL BUT NOT THIS WAY??<P>Right now we are no good to each other and I am no good to myself on this rollercoaster. It is time for me to get healthy again. For me. <P><BR>All of a sudden I feel so relieved. Like I have another chance to reach out and make and mold my own life. I know that right now my emotions are still on a rollercoaster. And yes, one day I would like the opportunity to have the OP in my life, but simply not this way.<P>I hope I made a little since today.

qu78 wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>IS IT OK FOR ME TO SAY GOODBYE, AND WAIT-- AND IF GOD ALLOWS US TO BE TOGETHER, THEN WE WILL BUT NOT THIS WAY??<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>This is a baby step! That's OK. You are moving in the right direction. <P>Just realize that you are keeping a mental foot in the door. That foot in the door will allow Satan to flood you with feelings, temptations, and thoughts that are not good for you.<P>What about working on your OWN marriage? What are you doing about your promises and committments to God, your husband, your family and your church? Can you stretch yourself to care about your husband at this point even if you are not "in love" with him? Can you work on your marriage while holding a candle for the married man?<P>And do you think it is <B><I>nice</I></B> that OM dupes his wife with the seduction routine to keep her blissfully blind?

qu78,<P>I'm proud of you for taking the steps you have. You took a step AWAY from the OM. That is the first important step. I understand that you may not feel like you can move towards your husband. For me the first step was moving away from OM. I couldn't turn all the way around - the feelings/emotions were all mixed up. I could just take that step away FIRST and then stand still (which meant, though, staying in my marriage, not moving out, not withdrawing). It took more time to then be able to take more steps TOWARD my husband. I think this is common. You are in withdrawal. But, I see you are already feeling some of the relief/peace from this first step you have taken. I rejoice with you in that!<P>Remember though, stepping away from the OM also means in your mind. You cannot continue to indulge in thoughts of OM, dream about the future, etc. That will only keep you bound to him. Try to push those thoughts away when they come - do not indulge in them. Fill your mind with praise music, Bible verses... Guard over what you dwell on.<P>You ask if it is ok to maybe be with the OM in the future - if God would allow it. Ask yourself - can you find any place in the Bible that would support you becoming free and the OM becoming free so you could be together with God's blessing? Search the Scriptures and see what you find. I think you already know the answer - but search for yourself. Read and see what God says.<P>I understand that in order to take this first baby step, you had to allow yourself a little "exit in your mind" (or "foot in the door", as Karenna said). It is good you have taken this first step, but now you must work at not having an "exit in your mind". You cannot stay in such a mindset for long, or you will be right back where you were. Now that you have taken this first step, start searching the Scriptures and see what God says about marriage, relationships, obedience, His plan and purpose for you. Fill you mind with His truth during this crucial time - and stay the course, qu78. Keep moving FORWARD and do not go back. If you do you will start all over again and you know how miserable that is.<P>You can do it! Keep persevering. Do not give in to temptation. Remind yourself - that is only a band-aid to ease your pain. Go for wholeness and healing. Jesus asks, "do you want to get well?" If so, do the right thing and He will heal you and your marriage and family.<P>Rejoicing with you over this step you took! <P><BR>------------------<BR>"Simon, Simon, behold, Satan has demanded permission to sift you like wheat; but I have prayed for you, that your faith may not fail; and you, when once you have turned again, strengthen your brothers."<P>[This message has been edited by siftedlikewheat (edited September 16, 2000).]<p>[This message has been edited by siftedlikewheat (edited September 16, 2000).]

PS 4:1 Answer me when I call to you,<BR> O my righteous God.<BR> Give me relief from my distress;<BR> be merciful to me and hear my prayer.<P> PS 4:2 How long, O men, will you turn my glory into shame?<BR> How long will you love delusions and seek false gods?<BR> Selah<P> PS 4:3 Know that the LORD has set apart the godly for himself;<BR> the LORD will hear when I call to him.<P> PS 4:4 In your anger do not sin;<BR> when you are on your beds,<BR> search your hearts and be silent.<BR> Selah<P> PS 4:5 Offer right sacrifices<BR> and trust in the LORD.<P>Hello my sister. I praise God for this first step you have taken. The others are correct in that you will have to take captive your thoughts or the evil one will have a hey dey with you. I will continue to pray that God puts an umbrella hedge around you and your family, but you are the one in control of what you think about. <P>Have you taken the emotional needs test to discover what top 5 needs you have? Do you think that your husband would be willing to take the test? Pray about it and see what your hear. Love you!

To: Kareena, Siftedlikewheat & SueB, and whoever has a prayer on their heart.<P>I have taken the emotional needs test with my H, and he actually asked for a copy of the emotional needs that I have so that he could make sure to study them.<P>& no I do not like the way the OP dupes his wife with unreal affection. This is the part that really confuses me. Because it is not easy for me to play that game, but for him it seems to come naturally and easy, however I do care for him. I think that this is a trait in him that could be changed.<P>I've even told him that the reason he was with me was because there was an emotional need that I filled or there is something missing within his-self. He did not respond but it made him think.<P>My ultimate prayer is to be able to find my own happiness within my home, to start building again and to correct the relationship with the OP and become his friend only, and to see him happy and rejoice as his marriage succeeds.<P>It seems so far away....seems like only a fantasy. I have alot of work to do, the work starts within me.<P>I know that withdrawal will be very hard, because I still believe that it was meant for OP to come into my life because I never felt the way he makes me feel. But I cannot survive the deception and lying and expecially being a hypocrit. I would rather leave the church altogether than pretend that my heart is with God.<P>well, I cannot say what Sunday will bring. I will see him at church on tommorrow. I will keep my distance. I will stay in the presence of others. This is extremely difficult. I am thinking of leaving my current church, however all of my friends are there. But in order for my family to survive and live saved I guess that sometimes one must remove themselves.<P>The outpouring of love that I received here has been phenominal. I will start writing my book again. Like I said I do have a work to do, and if I remain on this roller coaster I will fail. I do recognize that.<P>Much Love and God Bless

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I think that this is a trait in him that could be changed.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Not by you my sister, only God will be able to change that in him and he has to be willing to be changed. There is link for help for pastors and it is here: <A HREF="http://localhost:1234/HLPage?pg=http%3A%2F%2Fwin-edge.com%2FRestoration.shtml&ht=pastors+%2Bsexual+addictions" TARGET=_blank>http://localhost:1234/HLPage?pg=http%3A%2F%2Fwin-edge.com%2FRestoration.shtml&ht=pastors+%2Bsexual+addictions</A> <P>Let God deal with him at He sees fit, but for now, concentrate on you and your marriage, for the Word says:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>RO 13:11 And do this, understanding the present time. The hour has come for you to wake up from your slumber, because our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed. [12] The night is nearly over; the day is almost here. So let us put aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light.<P>Eph 5:13 But everything exposed by the light becomes visible, [14] for it is light that makes everything visible. This is why it is said:<P> "Wake up, O sleeper,<BR> rise from the dead,<BR> and Christ will shine on you."<P> EPH 5:15 Be very careful, then, how you live--not as unwise but as wise, [16] making the most of every opportunity, because the days are evil. [17] Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord's will is.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You are probably correct my sister that God allowed for this person to come into your presence, but perhaps not for the reason you presently think. It very well may have been a <B>wake up</B> call for you to recognize that something wasn't right in your marriage and that you needed to expose it to the light so that you and your husband could rebuild according to His plan for the two of you. <P>I challenge you my sister to tell your husband of this incident, that the two of you decide together whether to leave this church as ONE or whether the two of you can support one another enough to remain and expose the darkness to the light together. That your husband asked for a copy of your top 5 emotional needs shows that he is aware that things haven't been right and he has a desire to correct it.<P>This will be a hard thing for you to do I know, but I still don't think running away is the answer. From the examples I wrote about in the seeking God thread, I suspect this is a time to resist the devil rather than flee from the temptation.<P>Father, I ask you to give qu your wisdom and insght into the situation, that you help her to break free from this bondage totally and completely by her husband's side, so that your righteousness can reign over this body of believers. Father, build up her husband that he can respond to his wife in love and forgiveness, that once the darkness has been exposed, he can take the lead as you have given him to protect his wife and children. Let this all be for your glory Father, IJN, Amen.<P>qu, if it too hard to talk about, print out this thread and give it to him.<p>[This message has been edited by SueB (edited September 17, 2000).]

qu,<P>I am very proud of you!! I know this was an incredibly difficult step. You say about leaving the current church. You said your own husband is a minister. So, is he a minister in the same church? That would be incredibly hard. If so, does he know about the om?<BR>I was just wondering, perhaps I read your post the other day wrong.<BR>Keep connection with women that can support you and encourage you on this new path. Stay in praise with God and keep on the same path. God will meet you there and welcome you back into His arms and show you what He is longing to give you. <P>Father, wrap this sister, in Your great love and fill all the empty spaces within her. Protect her from the enemy and close all doors connected with this other man. Open the doors to renewing love for her husband and open the way for other christian women to give her support and friendship during this period. We praise You Lord for Your faithfulness when we wander. You wait at the point in the road were we took the turn away. You welcome us back with rejoicing and singing. In Jesus name. Amen.