Hi. <BR>I forgot to add this to my prayer request. <P>We are scheduled to go to the counselor this Friday at 7 Eastern time. Then, hopefully a nice date afterward. That is, if I don't blow a gasket when we discuss the contact last Spring and the fact that they (counselor and h.) kept this from me.<P>Our covenant was:<BR>1. I know about all contact or I start the separation process.<P>I thought it was fairly straightforward. <P>However, THEY decided it would be too upsetting for me, and, since the phone call was an unpleasant experience for my h. (OW rebuffed him), no need to inform me.<P>I WHOLEHEARTEDLY DISAGREE....THAT WAS NOT THE DEAL<P>and frankly, I know all about confidentiality in counseling... but I am the 'patient' of record....not my husband.<P>And yes, I will bring THAT up as well.<P>I love our counselor, but she blew it when she decided that truth was something bad for me...<P>secrets, NOW, that is what is damaging!<P>thanks for your prayers and input,<BR>lizzie<P>background links:<P>From December 1999 to Fall:<BR> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum25/HTML/000042.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum25/HTML/000042.html</A> <P>From Fall to today: <BR> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum25/HTML/000734.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum25/HTML/000734.html</A> <P>[This message has been edited by alias (edited October 25, 2000).]<P>[This message has been edited by alias (edited October 25, 2000).]<p>[This message has been edited by alias (edited October 26, 2000).]

I agree, he should have told you in light of your agreement. And, according to Dr. Harley, complete honesty and truthfulness is a must. I will be praying for you Fri. nite on my way home.<P>God bless you,<P>AW

Thanks, Rootbeer.<P>I have been very quiet about the A since he told me of the Spring contact. He first said that he was looking to get back with her, but, later the same evening revised it to "I don't know what I was looking for".<P>Perhaps HIS counselor can shed some light on things.<P>When I mention that he still needs individual counseling, he says he doesn't want to see her alone, because she occasionally touches her clients while talking!<P>Scripture to claim in this situation? Somebody give me a word of truth, please!<P>Now I don't trust the counselor to look out for my interests primarily anymore...so, do I start from scratch with someone new? The prospect of telling this whole ridiculous, yet true story is beyond daunting!<P>As Pooh (my favorite philosopher) would say,<BR>"Oh, Help and Bother!"<P>lizzie

I to was very leary of counselours after the one (which came highly recommended by a Christian group) started to practice hypnosis on me. I realized this could open the doors to the occult and did not participate after I realized what she was doing. After that, I felt how could I trust anyone - although I would like to talk to someone- just don't know who. Know this wasn't the answer to your questions - just a little sympathy. I'll be praying everything works out for you and that you find a Godly person with whom to confide in.

Thanks for the input.<P>He came home and gave me flowers, a bottle of rum and a bag of Pepperidge Farm cookies last night. He sat down and said "I am VERY sorry." <P>To clarify, I said "What for?"<BR>He said "For calling her last Spring, for lying to you about it, and for being nasty to you when you said it still upsets you. Please forgive me."<P>So, either he is remorseful or he's still the best male actor I have ever met...<P>but the cookies and rum were tasty, and the flowers are lovely. Sigh.<P>thanks again, counseling tonight.<P>lizzie

Lizzie,<P>This sounds like a trust issue to me, only this time it is with your counselor. I would feel betrayed again and in the business she is in she should know exactly what trust means.<P>You and your h have been working through this for a long time and it is going to work out. Maybe this counseling session tonight should involve a bit of confrontation and setting of ground rules again. I think your counselor blew it big time and she should know it!<P>The Lord we worship is still the Wonderful Counselor! He is our ultimate Guide!<P>Father, give Lizzie great wisdom for tonight. Help her to know if this is the counselor You choose for her and her hubby to continue with. May there be only truth-telling tonight and may there be a continuation of Your healing process. Give Lizzie courage and the exact words to communicate what this new information had done, and Lord , You be the one who is the True Advisor in their marriage. Thank You Lord that nothing happens but You first must raise Your protective arm and allow it into our lives. IJN<P>I haven't had the most success with counselors but I do believe God can use them. I guess I go along with Kay Arthur in her teaching concerning this, and that of course is that God alone sees all and He promises to direct our paths. A counselor is still a tool in the Lord's hand when it involves believers. Any godly counselor knows their own limitations and we need to too!<P>I'll be praying for your session tonight.<BR>Blessings, Taj<P>Oh ya, I wanted to mention, our counselor dropped us after opening up Pandora's Box.....we just didn't fit into her schedule because we couldn't make our appointments during daytime hours. I wrote her a letter and told her exactly what I felt about that. Her response was that if we were serious about healing our marriage we would take vacation time! Guess she doesn't know how precious vacation time is to a blue collar worker! I was steamed!!<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Taj (edited October 27, 2000).]

Alias, I will pray for you and h tonight, and I will praise God that you ARE seeking the counseling!! My husband isn't at the point of thinking couseling will do him any good. He still thinks EVERYTHING is my fault, and even though I was a B**** I know that it takes two, and now the two are God and Me and He is working on me!! He will never leave nor forsake us!<P>So, I will pray and ask for guidance for us all as well as offer up praises and thanks to our wondrous Lord!! God's Peace Laurie

Lizzie, a similiar thing happened to me sometime ago when we were in counseling. Our counsellor had made it clear from the beginning that things said in private sessions might be kept confidential from the other.<P>Several months into recovery, my h suddenly began to have feelings again for ow. Privately, he told the counsellor that he didn't know if he'd ever lose them. At that time I was having attacks of intense anger at h & ow. My h was scared that I would call it quits or that our marriage would never be happy and "normal" again. <P>However, our counsellor felt that his apparent reattraction to ow was typical in recovery, was not real, and would soon be resolved by him. (She was right as to him.) I had made it clear that I would not continue in a marriage as second choice and that if he was wavering between the two of us I wanted him out the door post haste! Meantime my h had written a letter to ow which he'd torn up and put into a trash can. Of course, I found it and reassembled it. I was shocked, dismayed, devastated, yada yada yada.<P>At that time I had not found Marriage Builders. I now understand that a counsellor might need to keep a confidence temporarily, but their job is to help us put the truth into perspective when the principle of honesty is followed. I firmly believe in the principle of total honesty. It is absolutely necessary for the restoration of trust. <P>I think our counsellors were short sighted in that they focused only on the question of whether the BS could handle the WS's wavering emotions at that time. Our counsellor simply did not agree with the principle of honesty. She flatly told my h NOT to tell me about these feelings. He would come home from his sessions and tell me every thing was just fine with him. She did us a lot of harm here. You need to have a straight forward talk with your counsellor. <P>I clearly have as much mistrust, anger, and resentment from that incident as from the discovery of the affair itself. When I discovered the affair, I had at least known that something was wrong. If anything, I felt some relief to know finally what I was up against. This recontact and subsequent lie came when I thought we were past his feelings for her.<P>In your case I think both your h and your counsellor were wrong. This is something that the 2 of you should discuss quite frankly with your counsellor. If you don't all 3 reach a mutual agreement as to the level and timing of honesty that you can expect from BOTH of them, then you should probably find a counsellor who appreciates the importance of honesty in restoring trust after an affair.

Dear ones:<BR>Thank you for all your insights.<P>It is hard to balance my anger enough to not present a threat to honesty. <P>My h. has almost 40 years of avoiding conflict by lying behind him, and he admits that honesty is difficult if it results in my displeasure or my pain. He can't stand my tears and usually goes immediately into, "Maybe you'd be better off with someone good, like you".<P>UGH. He just doesn't get the whole GRACE thing at all.<P>Last night I told him how angry I am with LP for agreeing that he should keep this secret, and he said "I never said she agreed." So I asked "Did she encourage you to tell me the truth?" "Well, no."<P>At the time, last spring, I was on meds for panic disorder, so I think they were "protecting" me, which pisses me off immensely. ('scuse the language, I am usually a lady, y'know).<P>gotta go tend my garden (therapy).<P>love to my sisters, <BR>lizpearl

How did it go, Lizzie? Are you getting some peace from anywhere? Hope you had a sweet sabbath.

Dear sisters,<P>Thank you so much for your prayers. Yes, Karenna, I have a great sense of peace now.<P>Our counselor apologized for not encouraging him to tell me last spring. She said she was absolutely wrong and she would not handle it the same again. <P>His reason was that it was a fleeting impulse that was not a threat to our progress. He said he is unclear on the date and circumstances, but he does remember that he had been drinking. She was mean and unresponsive because he had rebuffed her called last December.<P>We are going to finish up our counseling in a few weeks.<P>When she asked him to tell me how he feels about OW now, he thought for a while and then said this,<P>"My relationship with OW was like walking into a convenience store and buying mint lifesavers. Sweet and short lived, but satisfying for a while. Our marriage, on the other hand, is like tending a garden in which we are growing many things, including spearmint. We can enjoy the spearmint for a very long time."<P>I commended his eloquence and asked if he was just slinging bull to make me happy. He choked up and said "No, that is from my heart."<P>so on we press,<BR>thank you for your support<P>lizzie

Oh Lizzie, I am so thankful it went well. I have been going on-line all wknd checking to see if you had posted. God is so good! I praise Him for answered prayer on your behalf.<P>Your h sounds like a romantic. Mine is similar in that he is known to write poetry when in the mood. Sometimes I think men who tend to be romantic are high maintenance. Its funny, I never defined my h as a romantic until after the affair. Wish I had of noticed things like that back then.<P>Enjoy your garden today Lizzie, it seems to be in full bloom!<P>Blessings, Taj