Well, I actually got this posted early. <P>I ask for prayer that I will reach out and take the gift of Christ and trust Him for everything. He is Lord, He is my Savior, He is my strength and my hope. Increase my faith and increase my praise. Let me praise You, O Lord, without ceasing. I know this is the secret of staying with the Lord and out of satan's influence. I will not struggle, I will rest in His peace through praise to Him who is all things to me and fills all my needs. Who comes in and rearranges my life, for His purpose and His good. I don't want to fight this anymore. I want to enjoy and rejoice at the hand of His Works.<P>Thank you <p>[This message has been edited by hw (edited November 27, 2000).]

Dear hw,<P>Please pray for me as I am feeling so despondent and I can't seem to make my WS tell me the truth because he wants to 'protect me'. WS said that the A was 2 years of hell and Jesus saw his suffering. I need to know the truth to set me free. WS is also deteriorating physically, psychologically, mentally, etc.. I am not sure if that is to make me feel guilty or that he is wrecked with grieve. There is a lot of anger and unresolved hurts.<P>I had to fight literally with him and was about to jump off the balcony because he was calling me names (of a movie criminal character that had a duo personality) as he was mad that I wouldn't let the past alone. I then slashed the painting of our portraits because it all looked so hopeless. I asked him to leave the house and separate because he is not helping me recover but just wanted to pile more guilt and anger on my already over-burdened hurts and pain, blaming me for his current weakened and tortured state.<P>I told him that he has bolted shut the door to his secret A with the witch OW and that he intended to bring their shared memories to the grave. I have an immense imagination due to gift and training so I needed to know everything to limit my infinite imaginings that are killing me.<P>I am afraid that if he cannot tell the truth and admit how he got into this A trap in the first place, he cannot protect our marriage from future 'Trap' As.<P>He has now decided to go to a counsellor with me. But he is so 'fragile' that I feel burdened instead of protected and secured in the relationship. I hate how he shifts the anger at me, and lectures me and exhausts me instead of answering my questions honestly. I get so tired and twisted at the end by his verbal manouevrings.<P>Sorry for rambling. Thank you very much.<P>God bless you<BR>take care<BR>weep

Weep, <P>I am praying for you today, this can't wait until Tuesday night. I am glad that he is going to a counselor with you. Have you seen the counselor before? My thought is that you call the counselor ahead of time and tell him/her your concerns that h is falling apart and that if they think it is appropriate they suggest to h that he sees a counselor on his own as well. <P>He could be suffering from depression or any number of things. Maybe it would be wise to wait on demanding that he tell you, until you see the counselor. Maybe together in counseling it can be handled. <P> Another thought is that if he is depressed or in a crisis, until he starts to get help for that it will difficult to address the other issues.<P>I will keep you in prayer.<P>Father, <BR>Cover weep with Your loving hands. Lord, she cries out to You. Lord help her, guide her to know when to speak and ask for answers and when to wait on YOur timing. Lord lead them to a great counselor that can help her h to get any needed help necessary. Help them to be sensitive to each other and their needs.<P>Lord, turn weep's attention toward You. Let her seek You with all her heart as she works through the issues in her life and marriage. Lord You are the ultimate Counselor, let her lean on You and seek Your counsel.<P>Lord thank You for being with them both during this difficult time. In Jesus name, Amen.

Weep,<P>I need to respond to your prayer request. Every time you post of your need of the truth I relate......our situations are so similar. The thing is weep, you guys need to get help. This is just too tough to go it alone. You need your needs met first and foremost. Forgiveness has been defined as being willing to live with the consequences of another's sin. That being said your h must realize there are consequences and some of them are trying to help you back to wholeness. It can be very long and arduous. He seems to think you can just set it all aside and it goes away, IT DOESN'T!!!<P>We are studying marriage in our Sunday School class. Pastor calls any kind of sexual immorality idolatry! That is the root of it. Ok, so it was a trap, I can go along with that because that was my h's reason too. BUT, that doesn't mean that it wasn't sin and the sin of Idolatry. Your h needs to work through this not shove it under the carpet. God demands being first in our lives and if your h put anything before God then God wants him to find out why so he too can come to total healing and wholeness.<P>Your h sounds like he has a very strong personality and needs someone who can speak truth to him with strength and wisdom. Just because he was once strong in the Lord doesn't mean he can't be again BUT first he must come to the end of himself and allow God to be his sufficiency.<P>He really needs a godly man to come along side of him and hold him accountable. You guys both have issues and healing can only come as they are addressed not ignored.<P>I will be praying for you too!<P>Blessings, Taj<P><P>------------------<BR>"Perfect love casts out fear" I John 4:18

I am so confused! My H seems to have a split personality when we are out in public Hi is a nice person and pleasant to be around, you would never know we are having problems by his outward appearance to others. But get us alone and he won't talk to me, look at me or acknowledge I am alive. <P>For thanksgiving we have always spent the night at his parents but this year we didn't because he didn't want to sleep in the same room as me.<P>my H's parents are christian Marriage counselors and I here my H giving them wonderful ideas for the videos they are producing right now. It was like a blow to the stomach to here him give them ideas for reaching out to hurt couples when he himself has a problem with being faithful to me, his own wife.<P>I don't know how much more I can handle. I broke down last night, an he just sits their. i don't know if he just really doesn't care anymore or if he is afraid to acnowledge that he does still have some feelings there somewhere.<P>please pray for God to give me wisdom and strength as well as sufficient grace.<P>i just feel so lost and confused.<BR> <P>------------------<BR>Irene

I am going to try my best to stay awake past 10 so I can pray with you all tomorrow! <P>My prayer request is for the Lord to speak to my heart with an answer, He knows the issue. I pray that the Lord instills in me a quiet and gentle spirit, a spirit of meekness, and always goes before me in any contact I have with my husband. I pray also for my husband's salvation, that the Lord will give him life, turn his heart to Him and reveal Himself to my husband in an overwhelming way. Thanks ladies.

Dear Weep, <P>I am praying for you tonight and tomorrow too, Weep. You were so kind to me earlier this month, and I just hurt for you going through this torment! I can empathize with the jumping off the balcony thing. Just last night I lay on the floor spread eagled exposing my throat asking H to please just slit it and be done with the punishing once and for all.<P>hw, my prayer request is that I will be open to the Spirit of God and be able to pray again. I just cry whenever I try to pray. Otherwise I seem to be in perfect balance. Just don't get me near true prayer. I can pray formally, or for Weep and AW and my children, etc. but not in the deep mode of personal repentence and communication or even gratitude. I am trying to take the gift of Christ as you so eloquently put it, but I just sob and shut down the apparatus apparently.<P>Maybe this is some kind of spiritual battle. I really don't think I'm angry with God. But I just don't know how any more. Or what to even pray for. <p>[This message has been edited by Karenna (edited November 28, 2000).]

RO 8:26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. [27] And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God's will.<P>Go ahead and groan and cry Karenna, let the Spirit wash over you as you pour out the grief that is bubbling inside you. We cling by faith in the unseen though we may not understand, Jesus prayers in the garden were not without sweat or tears, his grief over his situation overwhelming, his soul was "overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death". his friends couldn't even stay awake and pray with him. When we know that a child is a gift from God and then that gift is taken away, even if there were problems, the pain is not any less painful. <P>I have been reading James 3 again and was given new insight from verse 14, not that I have selfish ambition, (which incidently seemed to be my scapegoat for not really looking at these verses) but the "bitter envy" really does fit for me, the anquish I feel in my desire to be in the Lord's will no matter what He allows to come my way and the intense pain that gnaws my stomach when I see other couples in love and tender and gracious with one another. This process I am going through in doing the feeling the feelings thing now sees that I have been denying the truth of all this and how that is sin.<P>So go ahead and sob those gut wrenching sobs, do it until you can't do it anymore, let your guard down to Him and He will give you the peace that you so desire. Praying for you from here.

Karenna,<P>I agree with Sue, just cry and sob before the Lord,<P>I too have been through a real struggle these last several weeks./ I have gone before the Lord and said take it all, I don't want it. But it would seem that I keep taking it back. But then I realized, I had given it to God it was the enemy who was telling me I hadn't. So I just began praising the Lord out loud.I did nothing else all day yesterday. When those thoughts creep into my head, I begin praising. The Lord is faithful and has taken itr from me.<P>Karenna, I certainly haven't suffered a loss like you have, and praising may be hard, I understand. But i do know with conviction it is the way out from feeling oppression.<P>Like aw's and my favorite janathan Pierce song says,<P>Praise the Lord, <BR>He can work through those who praise Him<BR>Praise the Lord,<BR>For our God inhabits praise<BR>Praise the Lord,<BR>For the chains that seek to bind us<BR>serve only to remind us<BR>that they drop powerless behind us<BR>when you praise Him.<P>This is so true and so powerful.<P>Praise Him in spite odf the pain, not for the pain but that He is there with you in the anguish!<P>Gos is

Dear hw, Taj, Karenna, <P>Thank you so much for your prayers, thoughts and advice. I know your prayers work! <P>My WS has been totally against going to a professional counsellor because he believes he can forget the A, and I can as long as we don't talk about it. But I can't be whole without learning and knowing about affairs and prevention. Recently, he said he would go but back out all the time and being angry and attacking instead.<P>KNOW what? He just told me to make a date on such and such and that he would take leave before. Now I need to pray that those days are available as the counsellor is very busy.<P>Thank you again for your prayers. I will be praying for all of you as well.<P>And Karenna, I understand totally the hopelessness and the total lack of wish to endure the pain anymore. I am praying that you can (and I can) learn to give and surrender all to Jesus as hw has said. Just ask the Holy Spirit to intercede and pray in tongues if you cannot and do not know what to pray for anymore.<P>God bless and heal you <BR>take care<BR>weep

Dear hw<P>Praise God that you posted this thread early.<P>I was at the end of myself and I really was in great despair (bruises all over my body from the fight {he didn't hit me but I knocked myself against stuff in the process of climbing, etc.} and WS grabbing me). I couldn't pray, couldn't play with baby, the live-in cum nanny was shocked at the slashed painting and my bruises. I thought what a lousy life I am living!<P>Logged onto MB and was surprised that you have posted the thread early and felt rescued.<P>Thanks<BR>weep<P>P.S.<P>Taj,<P>Thank you so much for replying, I was thinking about you and actually almost wanted to ask for help from you but wasn't sure if I should and then I saw hw's thread.<p>[This message has been edited by weep (edited November 28, 2000).]

Hi ladies, <BR> good to see all the familiar names back. I will pray hard for all of you tonight, my grief seems trivial compared to yours......<BR>However, I too have difficulty praying and sometimes can only cry. I think God hears what is is in my heart during those times, and yours too Karrena.........<BR> Things are progressing here, h is sleeping in the office (spare bedroom) both kids know we are in the process of divorce and we are going to live together til after January. I need prayers for strenth, patience, and a way to feel like making a Christmas for the children......My heart is broken, I tried so hard to make it work, I prayed so hard, I lost weight, I did plan A, to the best of my ability, it was just too late, and I am soo sorry. I am having a bad day, I feel like such a failure, I can't seem to do anything but cry. please pray thanks friends

I am so thankful that you follow the Spirit hw. You always seem to be ahead of us when it comes to prayer. Thanks!<P>Weep, if you ever want to just get in touch with me my e-mail is camorine@hotmail.com<BR>I would be blessed to help in any way I can.<P>Karenna, God knows you are finding it hard to get in touch with Him. Believe it or not He is trying just as hard to get in touch with you. Never give up, the Lord is on your side.<P>Scared and lonely, God says in His word He is not the author of confusion.....so you know where that is coming from! God give this daughter of Your's the widom, strength and grace she needs for her situation.<P>Rootbeer and SueB, you are both God's special ministering angels, you are in my <BR>prayers.<P>Carol14, your grief is not trivial, it is important. Lord lift the heavy mantel from this childs shoulders and give her Your peace. Catch her tears in Your bottle and show her how much You love her.<P>IJN

Hi Everyone,<P>I want to be on this too.....<P>My request is that I will be able to hold on to my faith in God. I too have trouble praying, because I don't know what to say anymore. But I have allowed myself to just say little prayers here and there and not try to have a whopping-big prayer session each day...<P>The other request is...and I know this is going to sound unrealistic after a year and sound like I'm in denial but.....I just really can't let go of the belief that God will restore my marriage. I tried several times to "move on"....tried to take down our pictures, bought a book on divorce, tried to pack up his stuff in some boxes....I can't do it. I keep thinking....what if he comes back and all his stuff is gone? I don't want to hurt him like that.<P>I feel so stupid after a whole year of this even voicing this. I don't want to "move on!!" I want to have the kind of marriage him and I were supposed to have from the beginning, but that we messed up by taking our eyes off God and focusing on ourselves.<P>I know that's what everyone at this board wants too, so I don't know why God would single me out to make it happen.<P>But it's still the desire and cry of my heart. In fact, it's getting stronger. I don't know what to do about it.<P>Anyway, I'll pray for y'all tonight (it's only 2:00 in the afternoon here) and ask God to bless you, give you wisdom and to hear His voice.<P>Thanks everyone.<BR>Aloha,<BR>Mrs.O

Mrs. O,<P>First of all you are not in denial or stupid. My H moved out 1+ years ago and I still believe that God can bring him home. And just because of a divorce it doesn't mean he won't come back either.<P>Have you heard of Restore Ministries? Erin Thiele has a web site and a great book full of scripture and encouragement called "How God Can and Will Restore Your Marriage". Her h divorced her and then they got back together. It happens quite frequently. You might want to go to the web site and get her book and read up on it and then decide what to do. <BR> restorem.org<P>God is a great God and He can use even this for your good. <P>I understand discouragement and the ups and downs. I have just been in a low period. Upset that I just can't seem to give it to God. But then I realized (finally) I have given it to God, it is satan that is telling me I haven't. So I have been praising Him since Sunday throughout the day and I feel like a different person. Read the words above from the song I quoted. "The chains that seem to bind you serve only to remind you that they drop powerless behind you when you praise Him!"<BR>He is still Lord, He is still in charge and He is!!!!!<P>There is another web sight called <BR>rejoice ministries. They send out a daily devotional called "Charlene Cares." This is really encouraging for the spouse that is waiting on their ws to come home. This is a h & w team. He left and divorced his wife and then came back. He has written a couple of fictional stories around the subject that are tear jerkers but inspiring. <BR> <BR> rejoiceministries.org<P>Both these web sites are for spouses that believe in waiting on the Lord and that all things are possible with Him. They are encouraging and supportive which you need while you are waiting. Many will tell you that you are nuts. Even my oldest daughter says this to me. My h has said he wishes I would find someone else. I say I can't do that, you are my husband and I say two wrongs don't make it right. I have also teold hom that I can wait and love him despite his actions because it is God's love coming through me to him.<P>So I have learned to shut them out. I might nod and listen, not to be rude, but I know that I am not in denial, I have made a conscious decision to wait on the Lord to finish what He has started. <P>I have found them very beneficial.<P>I hope this encourages you and gives you hope. It ain't over until it's over and then God really begins His work. I also have a saying instead of too little too late, I say "just enough, just in time" We know it has to be God's timing. <P>Keep praising and praying, reading the Bible and get involved in a Bible study if you can. See if there are other wives in your area in the same dilemma and start your own group. <P>I figure God doean't give up on me ever, so I don't have to give up on my h. <P>He has me being quiet and waiting. When I do open my mouth to try to convince him of anything it really turns to disaster. So to stay 'in this way' I have to praise the Lord. But I also have to do it with a pure heart of wanting God alone, and praising Him not for what He might do, but because I want to know Him and be with Him alone. God is so great and when I recall what Jesus did for me, I wonder how it is that I could ever complain about my pain. <P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by hw (edited November 28, 2000).]

Thanks HW,<P>I have both web sites you mentioned bookmarked and visit them often. And I get "Charlene Cares" every morning....it really helps me start my day off right.<P>The Restore Marriages site has a book "How God Will Restore Your Marriage" that Erin's husband wrote especially for men. I've read her book and go back to it over and over again.<P>Do you think it would be a good or bad idea to get this book for my H for Christmas? I don't know if he would actually read it, but he might and you never know....<P>But I don't want to turn him off to the idea either...I've already told him I'm still praying for our marriage.<P>Let me know what you think.<P>And thanks for encouraging me....I really appreciate it. <P>You're in my prayers,<BR>Aloha,<BR>Mrs.O<BR>

scared and lonely,<P>I wrote a response last night, but lost it.<P>It must be so tough to sit there while he encourages his parents but maintains a lie behind their backs. To have him be affectionate in front of others but not in provate with you.<P>I think you have to ask why? It might be that he feels ashamed of his behavior. Shame is different from guilt. Shame says I am worthless, whereas guilt says to the person I did something I'm not proud of.<P>Shame is debilitating and paralyzes, while guilt can be a motivation for change.<P>It may be that it does seem like he has a split personality. In fact he may do what is called splitting. He may see people as all good or all bad. It can come and go. Also he spearate the parts of himself that he doesn't like. He then projects these parts onto you. He sees this as being how you are and he hates you for it. The psychological terms would be projection and projective identification. <P>It is hard that it is his parents. It is too bad that you can't go to them for help. Not that they should do the counseling but they certainly would know someone. They might have a good talking to him, but that may be part of the problem.<P>Often when someone feels shame and worthless inside, which they may not even realize, it goes back to either an overly critical parent or an uninvolved parent. So his present behavior is set up to protect him from all unpleasant feelings. His behavior is an attempt to compensate for these feelings, again this can all be unconscious. Until it becomes conscious and he is ready to face his feelings things probably won't change.<P>I don't know your h, but some of the behavior is familiar. There is an excellent web site called NPDCENTRAL.com. NPD stands for narcissistic personality disorder. I am not saying this is the case. You may even have told me that he is manic depressant or maybe that was someone else. But to get back to the point, at that sight there is a archive of Sam Vankin's writing about the subject. Many of his ideas helped me to understand waht was going on with my h and why he sees the relationship the way he does. It was painful to read in some ways, but afterwards it helped me to understand.<P>Of course what all our h's really need is the Lord at the center of their lives.<P>God is!! He can heal and He does see us all. He sees when we are faithful, obedient and even when we fall. He is there to pick us up, brush us off and hold us while we cry because it hurts. God will heal and He can heal our marriages.<p>[This message has been edited by hw (edited November 28, 2000).]

Mrs O,<P>I'm not sure about giving him the book. I have tried that method. Some my h read and some he didn't but in the end they didn't have much impact. Erin says wait, seek the Lord, work on yourself. She also has a chapter on winning them over without a word, as the passage 1 Peter 3:1 says.<P>I have learned that when I talk to my h, satan uses those words i speak aloud and twists them around in my h's mind. That is why God has been telling me for a long time to be quiet and wait. Ask God to speak to your husband. By turning to prayer and asking God to work, you are essentially getting out of God's way. <BR>Concentrate on Seeking the Lord and praying for your H and just loving him. That doesn't mean doing anything, but having an attitude of love and respect toward him. That doesn't even mean that you respect him for what he is doing (certainly not) but the Lord, does tell us to respect them. <P>This is hard, believe me i know. I am at a strong in the Lord point, last week was a different story. But I know that praising the Lord is so powerful. Not because it will cause the Lord to do anything, but I feel closer to the Lord, I feel His presence, I feel better, I don't doubt or worry, I am not burdened or weighed down. I guess this is my soap box as such. I have expereinced the power of praise. It amazes me that I ever get away from it, I must be nuts. There is nothing like being in His presence. When we fix our eyes on Him instead of where we feel we are, the situation sure looks different even when nothing has happened.<P>I challenge us all. Spend a day in constant praise to God. See what you experience.

Thankyou hw for your reply.<P>I never even thought that what my H is doing, (the split personality thing) could be an uncouncious act. I love him dearly and i know he has alot of worth. any ideas on how i might be able to show him he is not worthless. I know what it feels like to feel worthless and i greives my heart tremedously to think that he may feel those feelings now. the only way i got over it was by turning to God. I think he is feels so ashamed rightnow it is diffucult for him to turn back to God. He has been a christian for most of his life and i think that fact and that he has turned his back not only on me but on the God he used to serve makes it difficult for him to do what is right. I love him and have given him to God but i also need to try my best to make him feel good about himself and worthy, i compliment him when i can and i make sure to thank him even for the little things like changing the lightbulbs for me. I want him to know that i appreciate him and want him in my life. any added suggestions would be appreciated. <P>When you pray could you please add an extra prayer for David. I know he is going through a tremendous spritually battle even if he doesn't see it.<P>Thankyou for your prayers, you will never know how i cherish them.<BR>your sister in Christ<BR><P>------------------<BR>Irene

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I challenge us all. Spend a day in constant praise to God. See what you experience. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I'll give that challenge a try hw. I remember the thread about being quiet and waiting to see what happens. I've spent a lot of time being quiet lately. I've also started marriage counselling alone. Today was my second visit. The counsellor said I'm describing emotional abuse when I describe the way my H treats me. I'm so confused. I'm so confused that I wonder if I just feel like I'm emotionally abused or if I really am. I don't know what my future will bring or if my marriage can be saved. I need something, anything, everything. Seems like there's not much of me left. Thank you for presenting the challenge hw. I'll give it my best shot.