I realize that this topic is a little off the discussion right now, but it has been on my heart and I thought I would just share this thought. Some time back, I was trying to reconcile several beliefs that I have. One, everyone is given free will and God will not change that nor take that freedom from anyone. Two: Many of us desire a change in someone else (namely that they have a relationship with the Lord) and this desire we pary for, is contrary to their free will. At the time, I was thinking specifically of my H. I prayed for him to have a "new heart" to be a new creature in the Lord. I can see where this would certainly solve a lot of problems for a lot of people. But, how could God manage this if my H does not want it. How can our prayers for someone's salvation work in harmony with God's allowance of free will?. This most hopeful thought came to me. While free will for everyone is certain, the holy spirit can know each person, even into the depths of their heart and with this knowledge, the holy spirit has a great tool with which to be persuasive. So, while we have free will, the "hound dog of heaven" can pursue the unsaved or those who have strayed (or even us, as he continues to perfect us), and persuade them of the truth. Just a thought that encouraged me. God is big enough to plan our lives so that those circumstances can bring us to where we need to be. He knows us intimately and he can persuade others to minister to us with just the right words and to intercede for us with just the right prayers. He does this through his holy spirit. Sometimes we realize we are under the direction of the holy spirit (I think this happens when we are at a place where we can be sensitive to it". Sometimes, I have found that the Holy Spirit has been leading me and I had been unaware. I realize that their are many times that my free will and fallen nature has prevented the holy spirit from working. I have often heard the Holy Spirit referred to as the "Hound Dog of Heaven." I like this label as it signifies the perserverance and tenacity of our Father in pursuing his plan for our lives. God bless each of you.....

Dear onedayatatime<P>Thanks for sharing that. This is something that I have thought often about and my life is a testimony of that.<P>Although I went to church since I was little, I never accepted Christ as my Personal Saviour till just before college when I exercised my free will to commit my life to Jesus. Prior to that, I was merely curious about God but would be sceptical of friends who were ardent in their love of Christ and who were evangelical. When they said they would pray for me to know Jesus, I would say "please don't complicate my life. Don't you do that." <P>I didn't want to be like them, as I didn't want to be so cheerful and uplifted all the time. I wanted to be sulky when I want to, I wanted to be alone a lot. But they replied that "I will still pray for you."<P>Their prayers worked. They put a word to our Heavenly Father to soften my heart and to come to know God. At a Billy Graham ministry, all my siblings and I accepted Christ as our personal saviour.<P>We have interceded for my parents and my father finally accepted Christ on his deathbed after a lifetime of idolatry. In my father's case, I believe it is God's amazing grace that came over my father and welcome him into God's Kingdom as he was hospitalised as a result of WS's OP screaming at him over the phone and telling him sordid things about her adultery with WS. My father's chest tightened and he was hospitalised and passed on from complications weeks later. <P>I believe in the power of prayer and when we intercede for someone, God listens and will use His Wisdom and Timing, at other times, His Compassion and Love. But God is a just God, too. He is so many things, so infinite.<P>I also remember that He needs us to remind Him of our needs as in the case of Rachel. He wants us to communicate with Him and have fellowship with Him and petition Him.<P>God bless you<BR>with love<BR>from weep

Dear Weep: What a wonderful testimony. It is encouraging to hear about how others have been persuaded by the holy spirit. I was raised to believe in Jesus, prayer, etc. My upbringing was firmly rooted. I chose to explore a number of other things in pursuit of an answer to life, refusing to accept what I had been taught. Much of my refusal was based on the belief that I was not "good enough" to be loved by anyone, most especially Christ. I was persuaded because the Lord taught me that his love was unconditional. This is something I still struggle with at times, the deserving part. It took me many years to accept his love, but the circumstances kept at me until I had to. He is still teaching me (it will take a lifetime to learn all I want to know...and then some), but I now believe that his word is true and he is real. God bless you, Merry Christmas!

I definately believe in the power of the Holy Spirit. I was not saved until 10 years ago. I had begun attending church regularly about <BR>2 years before. At the point where I began to go back to church i worked with a teacher who was saved. She said various thingsduring the year that made me think. Also two years before that I worked in a school, and the owners were saved. I know all of them were praying for me. I remember one of the sons of the people I worked with started talking about Jesus to me one day and I so pulled away. I look back and see now how the enemy was making it so uncomfortable for me. I realize better how others sometimes act as a result.<P>So we moved to CA, and I was going to church. A friend and i were talking and I said something about being born again. My thoughts had always been that these people were very extreme. My friend said, well being born again just means accepting Christ as your poersonal Savior. I thought gee I can do that. I had no clue really what that meant.<P>So the following Sunday during communion I said Lord, I beleve in Jesus and i accept Him as my Savior. I just said it and really didn't expect anything. Then two mornings later as I was waking up, I experienced (for lack of another way to describe it) my spirit talking with the Holy Spirit and I was accepting Christ. Then I felt this quick sharp pain starting at the bottom of my heart going up and toward the top of it. It felt like someone was blowing my heart up like a balloon. I didn;t know what had happened but i knew instantly at the same time. I felt such peace and joy.It was amazing.<P>Anyways to get back to the other part of the topic here, free will. My thought is that I accept that everyone has free will and GHod won't force us into anything, but if He couldn't work with that then none of us would be saved. I believe that God can manipulate the circumstances and keep whispering in our hearts until we do it on our own. <P>My husband was saved while driving 18 hours from CA to WA state. Out of the blue, it was truly a paul experience. Even now that he has turned his back i see the Lord working. Lasd week when he was worried about his mother he told my youngest all we can do is pray and I have been praying all day. Then last night he told me he bought each daughter a cross on a chain for Christmas. I thought wow! For someone who has so walked away from the Lord to do either of those things seems amazing to me. I also know to keep my mouth shut about them. I have found that God works in him.<P>Before he was saved we went to a Steven Curtis Chapman/Susan Ashton concert. When we left i knew he was angry. I knew that if I asked him how he liked it that he would then voice the anger. I realized it would be better to be silent and just let it work in him. He was saved 3 months later. <P>So even now I think it is neat that he was praying and bought the crosses. I know it is better to be quiet and let the Spirit work in him. I also though need to follow the same rule about talking about us at this point. That is the harder one for me to follow.<P>So I believe that the Spirit can definately work in us to change our hearts so that His will becomes our will. We are exercising our own free will to follow His will.<P>"For it is God who works in you to will and to act according to His good purpose." Philippians 2:13

Although I like the image of the hound of heaven, the scripture is rife with images not of a dog snapping at our heels, but of a shepherd. I was raised on a farm and have herded sheep--it is no compliment to be compared to sheep, if we as humans only use 10% of our brains, I doubt sheep use .5% of their tiny brains. If you chase them, they run, zigging, zagging...but if you allow them to settle in their herd, then calmly walk through them they surround you and go with you--well optimally that is what they do.<P>I prayed often for my H to be surrounded, confronted by the Holy Spirit in every way each day and that he would come into constant contact with other Christians. I prayed that specific prayer for months, during which he came home and left at least 3 times and I thought, this (God)isn't working. But my H, although guilt-ridden and miserable was exercising his free will. He was out with the OW and ran into my prayer partner and her husband, another time he ran into my best friend's mom, other times other good friends...sometimes they told me, sometimes they didn't until later. If H & OW were both in uniform, it was difficult to for anyone who didn't know her to know if it was work related or not. <P>My H was being confronted by the Holy Spirit arranging his warriors to defeat sin. But the choice was still my H's. However God didn't stop there, He arranged for the OW & my H's housemate to begin dating (I believe that was divine intervention), my H wasn't able to find joy in his work, in going out with friends, in anything...including me but perhaps excluding the kids, but the oldest was obviously yet respectfully distainful of him. God removed everything but Himself from my H. He hit bottom...and God was there. H still didn't have to choose God, he could have gone on, miserable and searching.<P>Almost a reverse Job...instead of sticking to faith through everything, it was finding faith because nothing else satisfies our God-hunger--not jobs, family, money, sin, alcohol.<P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"Whatever is true, honorable, just, pure, lovely, gracious...think about these things." Phil 4:8

Lori, <P>Thanks for posting that about your husband. And also about your experiences with sheep. How true about God and how He works around us and within us and all of our choices. Yet, He continues on persuading us!!!! Praise His name!!!!<P>OneDay, thanks for your post too. How very, very true about His persistence and tenancity (as you say) in persuading us, growing us and working in those around us too!<P>HM<P>

Oneday,<BR>I was thinking about free will just last night. I've been praying a lot lately. I still worry about "getting it right." I pray for my H the same prayers that you pray. H's heart seems so cold and impervious. I moved out on Monday and still he's showing no interest in me whatsoever. I quit smoking and feel like a frazzled fruitbasket. I hope this post is coherent! <P>Like Lora, I've been praying and praying. I set out a goal of living my life in a way that pleases God. I question the path I'm on. I pray for a sign that shows me what my pursuits should be. I feel like I'm not getting an answer. Other times, I think, well, my prayers probably are being answered and I'm too ignorant to see it. Then I think about free will and figure that I have to make my own choice. Then I feel lost and confused. <P>Oneday, I pray that your D will be with you for Christmas. You have suffered tremendous trials. Our capacity for pain is balanced by our capacity for joy. I pray that your Christmas will reward you with joy. All of us here have suffered tremendously. It'll be someone's turn for a miracle soon. I pray that it happens to you. Amen.

I too believe in the "Hound Dog of Heaven". The Mighty Persuador. Our God is in control..... He can do all things. I know it was the Holy's Spirit's working on my husband's heart that caused him to want to come home. I know it is the Holy Spirit's influence in my life that has often lead me in making choices. He surrounds us in His love always. He is always there..... just a prayer away. And I believe it is the prayers of the saints for others that hasten the Holy Spirit to move. <P>"Not by Might, Not by Power, but by My Spirit says the Lord". I love that song. <P>I pray that each of you has a beautiful, Merry Christmas!<P>Love and prayers,<P>AW