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#354620 12/27/00 01:37 AM
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For close to a year and a half, I have been praying for the salvation of my husband, for his deliverance from alcoholism, and for our marriage to be made into one far better than I could image according to God's plan. No real change. In fact, things have gone from bad to worse. His drinking is becoming out of control again. His health is suffering. <P>Today I discovered that the OW has been calling my husband's cell phone. How am I supposed to react? I am angry that this has happened, I admit I am angry. Most of all I feel betrayed yet again. I feel foolish for believing an unbeliever, whose heart does not belong to the Lord. I feel foolish for trusting him, for allowing him to walk all over me yet again. I feel stupid for trying so hard to make this man feel loved, admired, cared for and deeply wanted. Why is it that my husband has no conscience, no feelings for how he has destroyed another human being. How can a person be so cruel? I don't understand. <P>I have been asking myself and the Lord all day is it time for me to give up. I cannot hear God's word on this. My mind is blank, my heart is coming up void. There is no kindness in my husband's heart. <P>Please pray for me.

#354621 12/26/00 03:38 PM
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Hello dear Sister,<P>So sorry for the pain you are experiencing today. Perhaps today is enough, for He says that each day has enough trouble of its own.<P>I suppose it is time once again for us to delve into the ord and try to properly discern what He meant when He said<P>1PE 3:1 Wives, in the same way be submissive to your husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives, [2] when they see the purity and reverence of your lives.<P>Do these words mean to trust when trust worthiness has not occured in the home? Does it mean being a doormat and bowing down to disrespect and dishonor? Does it mean wearing your feelings out where they can be stepped on and disregarded or worse yet denounced and condemned? Is your behavior worthy of respect, reflecting dignity and strength, firm in your faith, having the ready quiet gentle answer for what you believe? <P>Again, I am becoming very aware that I am not showing my H honor when I allow him to treat me with disrespect or do not set up boundaries. Did not Jesus call a spade a spade when he said "You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks. [35] The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him. [36] But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. [37] For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned." to the very so called spiritual leaders of the times. Was that not speaking the truth in love? <P>Where did we get the interpretation that submission, which is biblically mutual, is supposed to be wishy washy? Jesus does not come across as such and yet He was submissive to the Father's will. We are encouraged to do the same.<P>These verses pay tribute to Sarah, but again go back and reread about Sarah. For the most part, she was not an easy woman to live with. She spoke what was on her mind, some of the things she did I even cringe at and yet, she is called beautiful, etc. and someone to emulate....<P>Our completeness is in God, not our husbands. We can never be separated from His love and we know that He is ever trustworthy. In becoming the woman of God that He desires for you to beccome, what steps must you take in love towards your husband? He has given you a spirit of power, of love and of a sound mind. All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, [17] so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. You are equipped my sister. I am praying for wisdom and discernment for you.<BR>

#354622 12/26/00 05:25 PM
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AW,<P>I have no answer for you. I in many ways wonder the same thing, although our circumstances are vastly different. I agree with Sue, that God doesn't want us to submit ourselves to abuse. Gods wants us to submit and love, and forgive, but I do not believe God wants us to live with men who are abusive to us. I also know that sometimes walking away is the only thing that will help the other person get help for themselves. <P> But I don't think in doing that that you necessarily have to walk away from the relationship or give up on it by pushing for divorce. I wonder though if removing yourself from the situation and telling david that he needs to get help or loose you is not a good idea. AW, you know I do not advocate giving up. I know how you are so trying to save your marriage and the relationship with david and obey God.<P>There are no easy answers. I know you have heard all this before too. You can only do what you feel you can do in your heart. But I know God does not want you to be in a abusive relationship. I know how hard it is to watch someone you love so desperately act in ways that hurt you, your children and themselves. I know you cry out to God in anguish.<P>I know God has said to me to seek Him with all my heart. I know He has said to me to read and study His word. And I know that He has said to me to put Him in the middle of my ,marriage and just love my husband. But I think I am realizing that that does not mean putting myself contineously into an abusive or uncomfortable situation. I am trying to figure out what that means exactly, but it may mean moving a little distance to remove myself from the situation a bit. I know I would still have to see him, but perhaps he would have to tale the kids to his place every other weekend without doing visitation at the house. once I finish grad school in May.<P>AW, I am in full support of what ever you decide God is calling you to do. It is hard enough to stand and do what you think is right without others offering their two cents worth. I just pray though that in what ever you do you respect yourself and think of your needs in contect of what God wants you to do. You may have to remove yourself from the situation or seek Him even more to lean on.<P>Well, I have probably confused you more than helped. so I will just be quiet and continue praying for you, my friend.<P>Father, I lift aw and david up to You. O, Lord, we have prayed and praised and cried out in anguish in aw's situation. But in faith we do know that You are sovereign and that You do know what You are doing. Lord, touch aw's heart with Your word for her situation. Lord, I know You do not want her to stay in a place where she is taken advantage of or abused even emotionally. Lord help her to find her way in You. Lord we continue to pray to YOU to touch david's heart to move Hhim where yYou want him to be. Lord let his drinking cause hom creat pain and difficulty. Lord let the drinking confront david and cause him to seek You and to change. Lord work in david;s heart. Lord we ask that You give david life in Jesus this day. We ask that You cause him to open his eyes to the truth about himself and his drinking. Show him the way back to you. Lord, give aw peace and show her the path toward You that she should take. Cause her to seek You and read Your word with all her heart in the coming year. Lord show her Your truth and help her to follow Your lead. In Jesus name, Amen.

#354623 12/26/00 05:40 PM
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Just me again. I hope my words were not considered advice but things to chew on and come to a decision as God leads you. Just tossing out ideas that the Lord also has me chewing on these days. Trying to find that fine line in those places that I am accountable for, my thoughts, my attitude, my mouth, my heart. Seeing that when Jesus was burned out, He took time away from everyone to pray and to seek God's face and will as well as rest. Trying to learn how to reach out to the body to fill those holes that my H cannot fill right now (and may never be able to fill) so that I can have something to give to my H. I am understanding that I seem to have placed myself in a self-imposed prison and I am short-changing myself and my H.<P>No one can tell you what to do Rootbeer. We can only bring up things to think about and pray for His wisdom and grace to surround you at this time. <P>Father, bring your sweet mercy and restoration to Rootbeer this moment. Let her feel your prescence in a mighty way. Surround her with your peace and give her clarity of mind a she seeks your will for her life and in this situation. Give her the courage to take bold steps if that is your will for her and help her to keep her eyes upward with each step. We give you the praise and glory for how you are about to work in her life. IJN, Amen.

#354624 12/26/00 08:23 PM
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{{{{{{{{{AW}}}}}}}}}}}<P>I am all too familiar with giving my heart and soul to my H only to receive it back as pulverized dust. The pain has shaken me to the core, and it sounds like you're suffering the same. My mind also feels blank, my heart is in tatters, and I hear nothing when I strain to hear the answers to my prayers. I have to believe that it's up to me to exercise my free will, and that my prayers for wisdom will be answered. I feel afraid of setting goals, worried that I will choose the wrong path. I keep praying for an epiphany. If only I could have a crystal clear, momentary vision of what my goals should be. <P>We don't get to define the way our prayers are answered. I suspect our prayers are being answered in a way that we can't see or can't understand right now, AW. I'm no biblical expert by any stretch of the imagination, but it's my understanding that God wants us to be happy. I know you want so much for your H to be sober and your marriage to be saved. Perhaps your happiness lies elsewhere. Open your mind to other possibilities and try to see what emerges. <P>If it's of any help, here's something I've contemplated during my week of separation from my H. I think it's possible to love my H and live apart from him too. I have little hope that my marriage can be saved. This causes me grievous pain. I promised myself at the beginning that I would love him no matter what. I think I will always love him, but that doesn't necessarily mean that our marriage will survive. <P>I wonder if I should even be answering this post. Somehow I've gathered enough gumption to move out of my house (day 8 now) and quit smoking (day 7). I need to set goals. I pray for guidance and hear nothing. I pray for vision and see nothing. I pray for strength and feel like I'm stuck in quicksand. It's very frustrating. I have no idea what my future holds, and I feel barely functional. If nothing else AW, maybe you can see there's someone in worse shape than you. LOL Maybe it'll make you feel better if my struggle sounds similar to yours. Actually, I hope that my story will give you courage to consider new options and to try something different. Be gentle with yourself. We all make mistakes, and thrashing ourselves over mistakes doesn't do any good. Forgive yourself and resolve to set boundaries that will remove undesirable behaviors from your life.

#354625 12/27/00 02:41 AM
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Dear AW and LH,<P>Years ago someone very dear to me taught me how to hear answers more clearly. When our thoughts are troubled and emotions are involved it is easy to imagine we are hearing what we want to hear, or hear and feel nothing at all.<P>This is the pattern I have used all my life, at least when on track!<P>First, study the problem. Define it. Journal about it. Describe it. Figure out the worst case scenario, the best case scenario, and the likely scenarios.<P>Second, come up with an idea for how it might be solved. Any idea. Do your best, just make a stab at it.<P>Third, take that idea before the Heavenly Father and ask Him if it is right.<P>If it is right or good for you to do at this time, you will have a very good feeling. If you don't get any feeling, go back to the drawing board and come up with another idea.<P>Usually, especially for little problems, I come up with a series (aka, a "list") of possibilities to pray over. When using a list, the feeling I get at the right choice is vastly different from the blanks I have over the other options. I often recheck the list in prayer once or twice to make sure the answer is of God and not of me or some other source. The "yes" feeling I get is usually one of peace or warmth. Sometimes it is a distinct nudge.<P>The deeper, or more complicated the problem, the less able I am to come up with a list and have to take my humble solutions to the Lord one at a time. Creativity is sometimes required!!<P>So may I suggest for you and anyone else struggling through feeling you are not being led to your path, step forward and face the path. Any hopeful path. <P>While facing the future, make your lists and pray over them. Pray over the process of making your lists and setting your goals. I totally believe that God wants us to take initiative and responsibility for our lives He has given us. He wants to bless us. He wants to help us.<P>And I can testify to all of you that God hears and answers your prayers. This format is just one of baby steps for the spiritual infants like me. Take your lists of goals, your lists of solutions, your lists of ideas, and ask God about each item, if it is His will for you. <P>The worst that can happen is that you find that God is pleased with more than one acceptable answer! Sometimes, for some questions, it really doesn't matter which option we choose. He will bless us for either choice in those cases, but we are required to choose and act for ourselves.<P>He has answered all my prayers and is disappointed when I don't exercise full faith that He will bless me for following the guidance I am given! This is my present struggle and guilt. I need to trust more in His mercy and blessings. I am too easily satisfied with being a martyr when He just wants to bless me. My faith in His promises has been faint.<P>Dear Father God, <P>I know that thou givest good gifts. Thou lovest thy chldren. For this I gratefully praise thy name to the highest. <P>I confess that I have been faithless in trusting thee and ask thy forgiveness. I resolve to henceforth take responsibility for the stewardship thou hast set me over and not fear the consequences.<P>I pray that we sisters here may all find the truth of prayer and the blessings which flow from on high when we trust thee enough to seek thy guidance literally. And that we might trust thee enough to follow it. And that we might accept thy great blessings in faith and humility. <P>This I beg in Jesus' holy name, Amen<BR>

#354626 12/27/00 08:00 AM
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Dear AW, I have prayed and asked the Lord if it was my own stubborness or if it was God's will that I continued to place myself in a situation that allowed my H to keep repeating the abuse that was so very hurtful. The answer I received is hard to explain, but it was somewhere along the lines of "Just keep seeking me and trusting me, keep looking to me to fill the needs and spaces." I am still not fully reconciled with my H, but I am at a very different place. I thought that the situation with the OW would never come to an end (it lasted 3 years), but God certainly brought it to an end this past summer. I still do not have all the answers to my situation, but I do know that God has and I am continuing to trust him to provide them as I need them. Father, you know exactly what the situation is for AW and you know why it seems to continue. We have placed this marriage and AW and David in your capable hands. We know you here our prayers, we know that you love them both, and we know that you have a plan. We ask, right now, that you would give AW what she needs, directly from you, to do what you would have her do. I ask that you surround her with the cloak of your beloved, that she would know your love at this very moment. I ask that you would bring peace to her heart, that you would bring your sweet rest to her soul, and that you would speak your thoughts to her mind. Father, we recognize that our emotions become too much for us to deal with. I ask that you counsel AW about each and every one of her emotions and help her to lay them at your feet and in your care. IJN, Amen

#354627 12/27/00 02:24 PM
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Thank you Karenna. Today is the first day since my separation that I feel like I can actually accomplish something. Don't know why it couldn't happen yesterday or last week. <P>I rediscovered a book I read many years ago that I'd like to recommend. Creative Visualization by Shakti Gawain. Back in my free spirit days, I travelled for a year overseas by myself. It took months of preparation, and the techniques in this book really helped me accomplish goals. It's consistent with Karenna's suggestions. <P>AW, how are you doing? Let us hear from you.

#354628 12/27/00 02:34 PM
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I'm at work so I this will be short.... but wanted to thank you all so very much for your prayers. I am still praying for the Lord to guide me and direct me.... and for David's heart to be softened to the Lord and his salvation to come soon. He denies any and all contact with the OW.... so I have prayed that the Lord, who knows all and sees all things, lets nothing being done in secret that shall not be made manifest, nor anything hidden that shall be made known. The Lord will handle this situation, I am trusting Him for the answer. Don't have it yet though.<P>Will post more when I get home tonight. It has been a rough two days.

#354629 01/02/01 01:08 AM
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AW,<P>How are you? I have thought about you often and will keep you in my prayers. God's peace to you tonight. DI<P>{{{{{{{{{AW}}}}}}}}}}}

#354630 01/03/01 07:20 AM
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DeadInside-<BR>I am fine..... things are pretty much the same, except I am getting closer to the Lord I think. Thank you so much for asking, I will keep you in my prayers also. How are you doing dear sister?

#354631 01/04/01 09:42 AM
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AW,<P>I hope you are okay today. I will be praying for you. A friend of mine just got divorced from her h who is an alcoholic and she often makes me think of you. It was so hard for her. After seven years, she finally couldn't do it anymore. I know your strength is coming from God. Continue to let Him be your rock. Only He can get us through this life. <P>I am okay. My H is here and trying. I am on antidepressants which are helping physically but not emotionally so much. Does that make sense? Through all this I have grown much closer to God as well. Life is not about what will make us happy but, how our faith will be strengthened. This is hard for me to learn. Well, prayers and hugs to you today. DI

#354632 01/04/01 10:12 AM
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Heard a meesage on the radio yesterday that "happiness" was about "me" and "joy" was about Him. Kind of gave me a bunch to think about.

#354633 01/04/01 10:27 AM
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AW,<BR>I was feeling a bit overwhelmed by my smaller-than-yours problems this morning and I read your post and realized that the Neil Anderson devotional I skimmed through this morning really was for me, and maybe for you.<P>Here it is:<P> N E I L A N D E R S O N D A I L Y D E V O T I O N A L<BR> from Freedom in Christ Ministries<P>January 4<P>BLOCKED GOALS<P>The fruit of the light consists in all goodness and righteousness<BR>and truth (Ephesians 5:9).<P>One morning I rose early, had my devotions and started making a<BR>special breakfast for my family. I was stirring the muffin mix,<BR>singing and feeling great when my sleepy-eyed son, Karl, wandered<BR>into the kitchen. He grabbed a box of cereal and an empty bowl<BR>and headed for the table.<P>"Hey, Karl, just a second. We're not having cereal this morning.<BR>We're going to sit around the table together and have a big<BR>breakfast with muffins."<P>"I don't like muffins, Dad," he mumbled, opening the cereal box.<P>"Wait, Karl,: I insisted, starting to get annoyed. "We're going<BR>to sit around the table together and have a big breakfast with<BR>muffins."<P>"But I don't like muffins, Dad," he repeated.<P>I lost it. "Karl, we're going to sit around the table together<BR>and have a big breakfast with muffins!" I barked. Karl closed the<BR>cereal box, threw it in the cupboard, and stomped back to his<BR>room. My great idea had suddenly turned to shambles. I had to<BR>spend the next several minutes apologizing to Karl for my<BR>outburst.<P>Like me, I'm sure you have suffered your share of blocked goals.<BR>You had this great plan to do something wonderful for God, your<BR>church, your family, or a friend. Then your plan was thrown into<BR>disarray by hectic daily events over which you had no control.<BR>You didn't get your way at the board meeting. Your child decided<BR>to be the lead guitarist in a rock band instead of becoming a<BR>doctor like you planned.<P>When you base your life on the success of plans that are subject<BR>to people and circumstances, your life will be one long,<BR>emotional roller coaster ride. And the only way to get off the<BR>roller coaster is to walk by faith according to the truth of<BR>God's Word. Who you are must not be dependent on the cooperation<BR>of others or favorable circumstances. Decide to become the<BR>spouse, parent, leader or worker God wants you to be. No one can<BR>block that goal except you.<P>Heavenly Father, show me today where I have allowed people or<BR>circumstances, instead of You, to determine what You want me to<BR>be.<P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"Whatever is true, honorable, just, pure, lovely, gracious...think about these things." Phil 4:8

#354634 01/04/01 11:03 AM
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ladies, I am new here, although i have been sitting and reading in the background for many months.<BR>I call myself exwife 123 becuase that is how many times i have been married and divorced from him.<BR>each seperation had to do with an affair. now, after 1 year, and another live in girlfriend, he is back with the same old story of reconciliation. I am of the mind now, that although i believe he loves me, and only me, we cannot and will not ever be man and wife, or married, or live together.<BR>9we have both been born again for many years, although our life style did not reflect much of what the Lord would have a marriage be. I also visit a web site called "rejoice ministries". are any of you familiar with it? <BR>i believe what the bible says, but am wondering if I am fighting god with my insistence that this marriage cannot and will not be saved. i would like your opinions. How much is enough in a situation like this? Our children are adults, we have grandchildren now.

#354635 01/04/01 05:16 PM
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ExWife123,<P>First off welcome to the Women's Bible Study Forum. This is a great place to search for truth and it seems from your post that is exactly what you are doing. You believe in what the Bible says and that is where we all begin our search for truth.<P>You have to be commended for your steadfastness. There are few people who can handle infidelity once let alone 3x's. You must have very strong feelings for your husband as well as the capacity to see him as a brother in Christ as well as a spouse.<P>There are alot of questions concerning the years you have spent in and out of your marriage. Have you sought counseling at any point? Do you understand your husbands behavior which leads him to repeat this sin?<P>There is one thing most of us agree on at this forum and that is that God hates divorce. That being said, He also is our refuge and strength and promises to be all we need in any given situation. God never intended for our marriages to be so hurtful. His idea for marriage was to be a safe haven and protection within anothers arms. When one spouse loses his/her way that is not the time for the other to run and hide, that is the time for the betrayed spouse to begin to pray and seek God's healing for marriage.<P>Where have you been and where are you now in the process of finding God's direction for your marriage? Please elaborate on your situation if you feel comfortable doing that. Otherwise, please just join us in our discussions for there is great wisdom shared here through the experiences of some pretty astounding women of God.<P>Again, Welcome<BR>Blessings, Taj<P>------------------<BR>"Perfect love casts out fear" I John 4:18

#354636 01/05/01 12:09 AM
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Thank you all so much for praying. I wish I could post a positive testimony but its not that way yet. I believe the Lord is working and is convicting my husband. I believe this because his attitude, snide remarks and<BR>anger have gotten worse; the enemy has stepped up his fierce battle and I really think this is because of all the prayers going up. I'm praising the Lord for the<BR>work He is doing in his life. <P>Last night my husband went to the domestic violence counseling session. He came home angry and agitated. SCREAMED at me. He had to start all over because of the CA trip last summer and he finally started again last nite. I'm praising God because this is an answer to prayer. I had prayed that<BR>his sessions would be on Wed. nights so I could go to church on Wed. nites without him getting angry because I was gone. Thank You Lord! <P>I've been doing some reading about alcoholism, and have begun to understand that his nastiness, blaming, and belittling are his disease talking. I am working on not letting his belittling and angry remarks get to me, just let them roll off my back. The Armor of God is protecting me. <BR>Please, if you wouldn't mind, pray in agreement with me that the Lord will help me keep my mouth tightly closed, taking every thought captive to Christ, and that I will ONLY respond in a Christlike manner. <P>I don't have an answer about the OW. I am believing that it was a ploy of Satan to come against what the Lord has put together. I did do something I probably shouldn't have, I called the OW's husband and asked him what he thought (I was kind and gracious - he understood my concern). They are living together again, praise God for restoring that marriage! I pray that they are deliriously happy and are deeply in love with each other. <P>Hi Lor, thank you for posting Neil's devotional! It did speak to my heart.... helps me remember to stop placing my faith in man, and keep it placed in God. This sentence jumped out at me "the only way to get off the roller coaster is to walk by faith according to the truth of God's Word." And that is exactly what we must do.... WALK BY FAITH. His Word tells me to stay, stand, and keep my eyes and heart focused on Him. Sometimes is is just so very, very hard to do. <P>DI - glad to hear you're ok too. Sometimes the dr. has to change your anti-dep meds around until they get you on just the right one. They do help though. Praying for you and you husband....you are so right, only He can get us through the trials. His way is the perfect way. <P>EXWIFE - welcome! This forum has been such a tremendous help to me, and is truly a Godsend. The presence of the Lord is here, and you will find so much love and support here. Taj said what I would say, and I too commend you on your steadfastness and commitment to your husband and the covenant of marriage. It helps so much to be able to share with Godly women who understand what you're going through, because they've been there too. Tuesday night prayer lifts me up so much, blesses me deeply. The Lord hears our cries dear sister. <P>Thank you all again so much for praying. I am still standing, looking to the Lord for His guidance and direction, and praying for my husband's lost soul. You all mean so much to me, thank you. May the Lord bless each of you with the deepest desires of your heart.


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