Ok, background:<P>For seven years my H and I have separate money. He spends all his in spite of most expenses evenly split, and salaries equivalent. I have had to buy furniture, curtains, save for vacations, and save for Christmas out of my own because I thought those things were important. I have, however let resentment over that build up. (my own fault) More resentment built up because I ask for and get his input on the things I bought, and usually changed my mind in order to please him, or was worn down with his refusal to POJA and then I got what he liked. I started to realize that he either didn't ask my opinion, or when I offered it, he didn't ever change what he planned to buy. Not only that, but there have been two opportunities when he was fired to make me solvent so that I could support us while he found work, and he refused to "hand over" any money. Most recently he agreed (reluctantly and I insisted that we not do it without enthusiastic consent which he didn't give, but he still insisted on doing this) to open a joint account by adding himself to mine. His electronic check has still not arrived after four months. I have mentioned it twice and he says oh it hasn't gone through yet. I am not on his deed to the house, but he has hinted latetly that we should refinance at a lower rate. (which would, of course put my name on the DEBT) I paid for car repairs, etc that cost thousands and he never gave me money for the CC charges. I put expensive purchases on credit because he "wanted" things. (he's very subtle - takes me shopping and eventually gets me enthusiastic about the purchase) I financed his car for him because his credit is gone with a bankruptcy filing.<P>I'm thinking that the boundaries on myself are to not let him take any more of "my" money with "his" purchases. <P>I can't see how else I can set boundaries on him, though, unless it would be to declare that I was going to close the joint account back to my name only if he is not going to join me financially.<P>Would it be selfish to tell him that I was no longer going to ask his opinion on purchases since I was paying for it? I'm extremely unhappy with my house because it's not my taste, and it's all things that I bought for him.<P>What do you see in this scenario?<P>H

Giving in to what you don't like violated POJA as much as his refusal to look at what you want.<P>Yup. No more handouts. HE has a keen nose for your money, reputation and assets. Sounds like he will have no guilt whatsoever about ruining you and dragging you down with him. But he can't do it without your consent. <P>Don't stop asking his opinion on how you spend your income, but don't give his input any control over the outcome either. Just let him feel heard. You may actually agree with him someday! He still has an income of his own?<P>Be loving in your communications and this should be good.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Giving in to what you don't like violated POJA as much as his refusal to look at what you want.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I realize that this is my own fault. What happens when I try to find something that we both like is an endless succession of shopping trips until I am sick of the whole ordeal. I felt badly trying to furnish and/or decorate the house without his consent because he complained of a former wife doing that in a 'country' style that he detested. I, of course, didn't want him to feel the way that I felt, which was uncomfortable and embarassed by a house which was not to my liking. So I purchased things that he liked and I tolerated, but eventually ended up detesting. Mostly what I have ended up with is a house that is unfurnished and undecorated. It took me five years to put curtains up over the blinds in the living room (eventually without his consent or input) because of my reluctance to do something without his approval. I think that he is reluctant for any changes and additionally delays and prolongs things in a stubborn effort to get what he wants.<P>I'm afraid of leaning toward the other extreme - which is why I laid it out here for advice. My own feelings have reached critical mass because of years of being embarrassed by my house. I'm purchasing paint and doing all the home repairs that he told me he would do for years and never got to.<P>He has an income now. He just never has money to do "necessary" things. When he wants something he takes me shopping and points it out and I would usually offer to finance/buy it. This was my effort to give him things and make him happy. Recently I have been saying "oh that's nice"...and not offering. His tactics got even stickier, though. He recently told a salesperson he would purchase something when he took me on a looking expedition and I was too embarrassed by having everything rung up not to put in the deposit on the item when he couldn't.<P>It is part of a can't say no which I'm working on. He is a person that won't accept no for an answer.<P>I still don't know what to do about the joint checking account. What is a kind way of saying "I don't believe your lie anymore about the electronic check and I'm closing your name off the account?"<P>H

I did open a checking account for my own resources only and I have automatic debits on the bills that are in my name only. H has no idea how much money I have in there because if he knew it would be identical as your case. Even now he does similar things when we go shopping. I used to say no, we can't afford it, but now I say sure, how are you going to pay for it? Obviously he doesn't have the money... Makes him mad, but oh well...sometimes things are hard.<P>The boundary on yourself is the need to be a better steward with your finances, to recognize that you cannot buy love, but that you can buy disrespect...in other words, he is not respecting you by his behavior, nor is he looking for your best interests when he sees all the toys he wants and expects you to buy for him to show that you love him. Go back to 1 Cor 13 to see what love is. I have to keep reminding myself, is this kind, is this rude, is ths self-seeking, etc. to keep the balance. Is my agreeing to purchase something in "our" best nterests or only his? If it is only his then I am perpetuating selfishness in my H and that is not honoring him or respecting him either nor am I encouraging my H to be a good steward. <P>Does that make sense?<P>

SueB,<P>What you said makes perfect sense. Like Karenna also said, he has a keen nose for my credit and money and I am just learning to say no. I offered to go online to purchase something for him at Christmas time that he wanted, but he didn't want to put it on his credit card when I asked for the card.<P>It used to upset me that he never purchased things for the "house", only for himself. I think I perpetuated his selfishness by giving him everything he wanted.<P>Thanks,<BR>H

I finally asked him for the MAC card to the account. I messed it up, though, I think. He asked me why I wanted it, and I said because it was for "my" account, and I'd like to have it please. He said "but I've never taken advantage of having the card, have I?" I said, "no, but I'd like to have it back, please, it's not your account."<P>He was very upset, and when I finally asked him to talk about things, he told me that I had been cruel and deliberately hurt him.<P>Later this seemed too defensive, but I pointed out that when he saw that I wasn't going to use his Valentine's gift (lingeree oh boy), he took it back - was he trying to be cruel? I said you weren't making use of the account, so I wanted it back.<P>He insisted he was going to use it, but I couldn't pursue the topic anymore without getting into a worse mess, so I dropped it.<P>Now he's started saying that I'm trying to get even. That after years of imagining that he was taking advantage of me, that all of the sudden I'm selfishly demanding everything to be my way.<P>Somebody please help me get back on track. I don't want to be a selfish brat, and I don't have enough confidence to stand up for myself in a loving way without advice.<P>I don't know how to answer him.<P>H

The way a boundaryless person controls others is by putting the ohter person back on the defensive. His comments to you were meant for you to somehow feel bad or guilty for asking a perfectly legitimate thing, to have your card back. <P>The only thing I can suggest is that you reread the boundaries stuff, that you learn what it means to lovingly set a boundary on yourself so that you don't feel unloving and vindictive, bitter towards your husband. For example, his comments that you were only doing this to get even is not a truth and so you can say so. "The truth is I want to get my finances back in order and I want my card back so that I can keep better track of what is charged, etc. I am finding that sometimes I feel anxious and untrusting towards you and I do not want to feel that way. By returning the card, I am able to limit my negative feelings and focus more on the postive aspects of our relationship so that we can become closer."<P>If you don't have the book, I would encourage you to get it as there is a whole chapter on the boundary resistant person and suggestions for dealing with that person. I reread and reread and God is making me more aware of what part is mine each time I read. We have a long way to go, but I do feel God challenging me in this area to become more disciplined in my boundaries.<P>Good luck.

Thank you SueB. I do have the book, and will re-read that section in particular, and the whole thing as well. It begins to get fuzzy after a few weeks.<P>H is feeling very unloved and that I am unfair for wanting him to respect my input. I told him I did not like a certain type of lighting, and he went to Home Depot to look at that lighting, and asked me to go down and pick out the design that I liked best. I got mad and pointed out that he didn't even change one bit from what he liked and gave a recent example of how I added his idea to something that I was doing in order to do something that he would like also.<P>I just don't understand why he has no desire to please me.<P>H

WEll, I am finding as I pray through stuff that I really have to look at what I mean when I say my spouse doesn't respect my input...does that mean that I want him to do things my way and if so, what says that my way is any better than his? As I think about and try to describe to my H what the POJA looks like and how I would prefer not to buy anything until we both agreed on it, his interpretation of that is that I will be stubborn until I get my way. I am trying to continue to share with him my understanding that perhaps we both look at something totally different from what we first liked to find something that we both could live with. <P>For me, the desire for my H to acknowledge my input is more of did he hear what I had to say, did he consider it when he was considering all the options and if he chose something different, is he willing to share with me why he chose something so that I can have a better understanding of my H. He does not always uinderstand that, but as I pray and clearly seek out my purpose for something in the best interests of "US", i am better able to verbalize things. <P>There are two verse I am clinging to right now. The first is Gal 5:1 and the 2nd is Eph 4:29. To speak what is helpful for building someone up according to their needs really is challenging me to think before I speak. Speaking the truth in love can be twisted if we are not careful and so I am finding that as I try to discern what would build muy H up according to his needs is a better challenge than just "telling it like it is". I think God wants us to have softened hearts and the fact that we have been remiss in setting boundaries and now are attempting to do so after allowing our H's free rein for this period of time, that perhaps we do not set them with the right attitude or heart. I know that there are days that I am so angry and hurt and tired that I would rather punch him in the face rather than deal with him at all. That isn't of God, so I find myself spinning donuts at times. Really looking at our motivation and purpose and discering how to build up requires greater participation in having a right heart...especially when our spouses are not being kind.<P>I 'll keep you in prayer and you do the same for me please.

Sue,<P>Once again your words drive straight to my heart and speak the truth about my own doubts and dilemmas. I truly do not want him to see me as stubborn and selfish, and that is his interpretation when he feels self-doubt and examines a scenario.<BR>Asking him if he considered me when choosing something causes a completely defensive reaction or a dismissive comment. "We haven't even started on that project yet - we would discuss it when we start." Yet time has shown even recently that he will take me to a store to buy what he thinks is best with no further discussion.<BR>I did explain my need to know <B>why</B> he chose something, and we'll see how that goes.<BR>There is a basic personality difference, too, that he will examine every aspect of a project and make it much more complicated, putting up obstacles(sp?) until it becomes impossible to complete simple tasks.<P>Lord, grant patience to me (and SueB) to not let my anger and hurt stand in the way of becoming a better wife and companion for this good man. Help me to find better ways to communicate my needs to him and to have the strength to do a better job fulfilling his needs. IJNWP Amen.<P>H

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I did explain my need to know why he chose something, and we'll see how that goes.<BR>There is a basic personality difference, too, that he will examine every aspect of a project and make it much more complicated, putting up obstacles(sp?) until it becomes impossible to complete simple tasks.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Can relate to all you have said. I guess I am finding God asking me if it so necessary to do it the simple way or is it more important that my H have my full confidence. Is it better that he is a detail man even though it drives me bonkers or would I really be satisfied if he just threw stuff together without forethought? Do I undermine my H's self-esteem when I question his decisions? Am I challenging his role as servant/leader and hardening his heart so that he is less than understanding when something comes up that I really do find important and want him to hear my heart on? I really spent a lot of time looking inward from the Boundaries book on my own part in the dysfunction, looking at how I honor and dishonor my husband. From there I went to the 12 step spiritual recovery for healing damaged emotions, some of which I shared when we restarted the POPW book again and I really feel God is revealing a lot to me about me. I have had to look at my own behaviors which are a stumbling block to my H and his assuming the servant/leader role and loving me in an understanding way.<P>I discovered that my H did not have to assume responsibility for his self-care as he used my own behavior of bondage (smoking) as an excuse for him not needing to address his own issues. I could never share my concern about his health for his obesity without his turning it round to my smoking. So, that is part of where Gal 5:1 comes in for me as I have spent that last 5 weeks battling the addiction and I can honestly say, I feel my motivation must be right this time because I really feel that I am going to make it this time with God's help. Have tried to stop before and resumed after three weeks, so affected by the outpouring of tears and the flood of emotions that I have buried over the years and had stuffed by smoking cigarettes.<P>I have done more crying in the last 5 weeks than ever in my life. I sometimes have to go outside and do some deep breathing and exhaling as if I were smoking to do the calming thing, but my desire to not be a stumbling block to my husband overrides the desire to smoke. I know God's love will pierce my husband's hard heart and He will do it not in the way I would ([censored] him upside the head) and when the heart softens, God will do a mighty work on him...that doesn't mean I allow really wrong stuff to happen though, that fine balance of things keeps me looking upwards a lot.<P>Don't konw if that helps or not. I see God changing me.<BR>

SueB,<BR>If you've ever been through an addiction program then you know that you should take it one day at a time. (or minute or second depending upon the frame of mind) I quit drinking last summer, and I don't think it was as hard as quitting smoking is for me. (Speaking of which, now I'm feeling guilty and should quit just to support you!) Just convince yourself that you can get through the next minute, hour, day, etc. Don't think about lifetime commitments - it only scares you into wondering how you will live without your vice, and starts you thinking about how just one won't hurt if you bum one from someone else, if you really really need it.....<BR>Find a friend to call that can be your quitting partner. Or you can post here in desperation!<BR>I used to think that every time that I quit smoking that my h would undermine my efforts?!! Was it me being overly sensitive because of nicotine deprivation? Or did he choose that time to pick fights?<BR>He brought home alcohol right after I quit drinking even though he rarely drinks.<BR>Watch the adjustment as your H realizes that he can no longer criticize you about a PAST vice.<P>H